If you believe the Dems were "weak" and "caved" today, please enumerate the things the GOP gained

[scheming daemons]

I can list only one:

- The government will be open for the next 3 weeks.




84% of the public is against DACA recipients being deported. Does the GOP gain ANYTHING by allowing that to happen beginning on March 5th (if they don't make a DACA deal)? No. They just make the Big Blue Wave (tm) even bigger.

[ollie10]

1. Name one thing WE gained

[scheming daemons]

4. 9 million poor children getting their health insurance back.

[Luciferous]

6. Weren't they offering that before though? Pelosi

wasn't happy that they were only offering 6 years instead of 10, but 6 years is still all they got.

[scheming daemons]

9. 6 years gets us to early 2024. When there would be (hopefully) a Dem congress and President.

That's a good deal.

[Luciferous]

49. But it's not any different than what they were offered on Friday. The Democrats caved- again.

[scheming daemons]

51. Yes it is. On Friday, we didn't have McConnell on the record... giving us a hammer for February 8.

Nothing is different today than on Friday.... except for two things:

- The shutdown threat is there again in 3 weeks
- CHIP is no longer available to GOP as a bargaining chip.

[Luciferous]

53. McConnell won't keep his word. Look what he did to Flake and Collins. And even if

he does, there's no guarantee that anything will actually get done.

[scheming daemons]

55. Whether he does or doesn't is not the point

If he keeps his word, the Dems get a floor vote in the Senate


If he reneges, the Dems get a hammer to use for the February 8 shutdown.

[EffieBlack]

70. Doesn't matter

If he doesn't keep his word, Dems have leverage. If he does, we're good to go.

[lindysalsagal]

60. Yes. They decided not to die on that sword: so it wasn't worth much

To them, anyway. This is really just buying time.

[EffieBlack]

69. Thank You!

[LovingA2andMI]

33. They Were....

That was the Deal on the Table on Friday...

And That was the Same Deal "Agreed Upon" today, post less than 72 Hours of a so-called "Shutdown".

Or in the game of Tennis, that would be called "Love" or ZERO points gained...

[Luciferous]

50. That's what I thought. This just makes us look weak.

[EffieBlack]

68. But now it's off the table and can't be used

And don't underestimate the power of eliciting a promise, even from someone as untrustworthy as McConnell. Now he's way out on Front Street - if he doesn't deliver on his very public promise and the Dems shut it down again, they're in a much stronger position than they were yesterday - like it or not, right or wrong, they were coming out on the wrong side of the shutdown argument.

[ollie10]

67. Oh really? wasn't that part of the deal we filibustered anyway?

what GAIN did we get?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. The government being reopened is a good thing for everybody.

If it hadn't happened millions of federal employees would not be getting paychecks.

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. the basic question is was there any chance of the GOP giving in on DACA to the degree we wanted?

Answer must be no.

[customerserviceguy]

41. That's absolutely correct

We made the best of a bad hand. CHIP was worth three more weeks.

[OliverQ]

5. Trump team is sending out fundraising mail saying Dems caved.

The media is now talking about how Dems have to give Trump his wall and border security to have a shot at DACA now. I'm seeing lots of anger and frustration from Dem voters over Dem Senators acting like McConnell will honor the deal in 3 weeks. That's going to hurt enthusiasm and turn out.

[scheming daemons]

7. Every take in your post is wrong.

The Dems will have to give Trump his "wall" and "border security" to have a shot at DACA *BEFORE* this deal. That didn't change.

Dem voters having anger and frustration increases turnout, not decreases. McConnell failing to honor the deal would HELP the Dems use DACA as a hammer against the GOP.


McConnell will either abide or he won't. In either case, Dems win the message.

[murielm99]

17. I don't think this will hurt enthusiasm and turnout.

This gives us three weeks, and puts us closer to the primary. It makes the repiggies look bad if they don't go along with DACA. Timing is everything.

Trump is saying the Democrats caved. On NPR I keep hearing that trump played almost no part in the negotiation. He looks bad because he did nothing during this manufactured crisis except tweet. He missed his party, too, and people are ridiculing him for that.

There was a compromise. When people compromise, no one goes home truly happy.

We are used to trump's lies and spin by now. The Democrats did not cave. Screw his fundraising mail. Send it back to him.

[OliverQ]

21. I also just found out Repubs snuck in more tax cuts into this bill.

It's actually pretty awful.

[leftynyc]

27. And we should give a crap

if donnie wants to soak his slack jawed imbecile supporters.........why?

[Cha]

46. ..

[EffieBlack]

71. Well, if Trump team says it, it must be true ...

[OliverQ]

75. That wasn't my point. Clearly I know they're liars.

Just frustrating how pathetically childish they are.

[treestar]

8. As soon as I saw that an agreement had been reached

I knew there would be DU posts saying Dems "caved."

[murielm99]

18. +100000

[maryellen99]

31. And usually ones with low post counts nt

[sheshe2]

56. They started at about 12o1

From what I saw it was “Spineless Democrats caved… Spineless Democrats caved” their words not mine.

[treestar]

57. You bet, she

[EffieBlack]

72. Eyup

[Ccarmona]

10. The GOP Regained

Their base & their Majority. If they had given in and Passed DACA and a firm budget, they have nothing left to bargain and their Majority would have been neutered.

[scheming daemons]

14. There was no situation that would've caused the GOP to pass DACA to end the shutdown.

GOP doesn't care about shutdowns.

The GOP now has one less thing to bargain with... CHIP. And are in the same position they were in a week ago, with respect to DACA.

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. Taking McConnell's word is a very risky gamble.

He is not to be trusted. Ever.

Meanwhile, the headlines scream "Dems Cave"

[scheming daemons]

15. Any such headlines are wrong.

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. Maybe so, but the fact is it's out there.

And it's not good news.

McConnell is the biggest scumbag in Congress. Look at what he did to Obama's SCOTUS pick.

Trust him at your own peril.

[scheming daemons]

22. Schumer doesn't trust him. That's the point.

Two things can happen:

A) McConnell surprises and keeps his promise. Result: Dems get their DACA vote on the Senate floor.

B) McConnell acts as expected and reneges on his promise. Result: Dems have a hammer to beat McConnell with when the government shuts down again on Feb 8th.


Schumer understands game theory. And his adverseries.


Many "rank and file" Dems do not. You can see them on this site today.

[mcar]

34. This!

No one trusts McConnell, but I don't get where people think this gives Rs the upper hand.

They released one hostage and have turtle on record saying he'll take up leg in Senate forDACA and more.

[EffieBlack]

73. Exactly!

Too many Dems are demanding we play one-dimensional checkers.

Fortunately, Senate Dems better understand tactics and strategy.

[OliverQ]

23. Doesn't matter if they're wrong, it's what people say and believe.

The GOP is winning the media narrative. Most people won't realize the strategic nuance involved with this decision, they'll just see Schumer giving into a false promise by McConnell.

[scheming daemons]

24. On Feb 8th, all will be clear.

Either McConnell keeps his promise (yay!) or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he has handed the Dems the club to beat him over the head with when the government shuts down on Feb 8.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. He needed clubbing NOW.

Of course he will load a DACA vote with tons and tons of other GOP-favored crap.

HE. IS. NOT. TO. BE. TRUSTED.

[scheming daemons]

28. We got 9 million hostages released NOW. The clubbing will be there on Feb 8

And I know he is not to be trusted.


You know who else knows this? Chuck Schumer.

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. Do you think there will be a "clean" vote on DACA?

I don't.

McConnell will load the DACA vote with so much stinky stuff nobody will want it. Meanwhile, we will be bombarded with "Dems Caved" propaganda for three weeks. It's all over the place already, even on liberal-friendly media.

It's Lucy and Charlie Brown, all over again.

[scheming daemons]

39. There will be... or there won't be. Exact same situation as a week ago.

If there is a DACA vote, great. McConnell caved.

If there isn't a DACA vote.... McConnell becomes minority leader on November 6th.

[TheCowsCameHome]

40. And if DACA doesn't pass

just think of all those folks being deported. These are human beings being used as chess pieces.

We had Mitch by the nuts, and we let go.

This won't end well.

[scheming daemons]

43. They are chess pieces we have no capability to protect.

in what way did we have "Mitch by the nuts"?


If the Dems didn't vote for the deal today, how would *ANYTHING* have been different with respect to DACA? In what way was Mitch under *ANY* pressure at all to end the shutdown?

THE GOP DOESN'T CARE IF A SHUTDOWN LASTS FOREVER.

[TheCowsCameHome]

45. Good luck trusting McConnell.

I'm done.

[scheming daemons]

48. I don't trust McConnell. That's the point.

Either he surprises and keeps his promise (yay!)... unlikely...... or he doesn't.


If he doesn't, we're in the same place we were yesterday. But with a bigger hammer.

[atreides1]

76. I know some of those "Chess Pieces"

I'll be sure to let them know that they were sacrificed, like pawns on a chess board!!

[EffieBlack]

74. Reopening the government didn't change that possibility one iota.

[Thunderbeast]

63. Ya think?

[Bradshaw3]

52. Even if they are "winning" so what? Most people don't care about that

Got any proof that helps them in 2018? Fires up the cultists for awhile, maybe some donors come back. Doesn't change the narrative at all that most people are sick of the man baby, the rigged system and the chaos. If anything it reinforces that perspective, which will help Dems in 2018. I see nothing to contradict that in this present situation.

[treestar]

58. He would be publicly going back on his word

Does he want to do that?

[Nanjeanne]

12. Rs gained the knowledge that Ds dont really have the moral courage to fight for DACA

Last edited Mon Jan 22, 2018, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)

and can be bought with a promise to “address” the issue of DACA on the Senate floor.

In no short order, WH spokesperson said Trump will not agree to Graham Durbin bill. Sarah started the pr campaign that Schumer agreed finally to what Pres Trump has been asking for, more than 2000 Dreamers will join the thousands of other who have already lost status, and all the Dreamers are 3 weeks closer to deportation. And Rs are now able to also claim Ds finally put young people’s health ahead of “illegals” by agreeing to Rs offer of CHIP funding.

That’s off the top of my head. So Rs gained quite a bit in the pr world and Ds lost quite a bit.

[scheming daemons]

16. If DACA doesn't happen, it won't hurt the Dems one bit in November. But it will crush the GOP.

Schumer knows this.

[Nanjeanne]

26. Ya think that? Ok.

[TDale313]

30. Yes, it will hurt Dems.

Because a huge chunk of the base will feel sold out and like no one is really fighting for them. They won’t vote GOP, but many may not feel like voting at all.

[scheming daemons]

38. A minority party in both chambers can literally do *NOTHING* to stop deportations.... *NOTHING*

...except making it as politically painful for the GOP in the midterms.


Why would a "huge chunk of the base" feel sold out? In what way were they sold out? What possible action could the Democrats take to help Dreamers? Extending the shutdown? How does that help, since the GOP doesn't care about shutdowns?


Think!

[LovingA2andMI]

36. Pretty Much....

Sums It Up...



....End of Comment.

[pamdb]

13. DACA

I don't believe anything that comes out of McConnell's mouth. Of course I don't believe anything trump says. Trump's supporters
don't give a rat's ass about the Dreamers. If McConnell does bring it up-and keep in mind one of the proposals was, well they could stay but they cannot become citizens-the chances of the dreamers being able to become citizens (800,00 democratic votes there) is about as
likely as me winning the lottery. I am disgusted with the democrats and boy if they EVER call me again wanting money, they are going to
get an earful.

[renate]

61. one thing that gives me hope, despite what you say about Trump's voters not giving a rat's ass...

... about the Dreamers--which on the face of it I would absolutely agree with, since I've never interacted with a single one who gave me any hope--is that about half of his voters must give at least a mouse's ass about them, since only 13% of the population are totally against DACA. In fact, if he has a 39% base, it's really more like two thirds of his voters are in favor of DACA.

My late father-in-law would probably have been a Trump voter, and would probably have been against any kind of brown immigration (yeah, I know--yikes), but (weirdly) I think he liked the people of color he actually knew and worked with. If he'd known anybody personally whom he liked and who'd be affected by DACA, he'd have been in favor of it. And most people know someone who'd be affected by DACA.

I could not agree with you more about not believing anything that comes out of McConnell's mouth--he's demonstrated himself to be a liar in much the same context when he lied to Susan Collins recently on the tax bill. But I think there would be a political penalty for backing out on this one. I sure hope so, anyway. But I'm pissed too. I don't understand why the GOP didn't just go along right now with something that 87% of the country wants. I guess them getting a notch in the "in your face, Democrats" column counted for more than voting for something that should be as American as apple pie.

[LanternWaste]

19. It's a narrative that won't stick.

It's a narrative that won't stick.

Bless the little hearts of those who are concerned with our "Democrat" Senators, who have been throwing that one at the wall all afternoon with their left hands.

No caving. Simple politics.

[Gin]

29. Dont the rethugs have a retreat first week of February?

If so, they better start negotiating!

[LovingA2andMI]

32. Well According To Some Democrats....

Senate Democrats Get Little as Shutdown Fight Ends With a Punt

Senate Democrats “caved. They blinked. That’s what they do," Democratic Representative Luis Gutierrez of Illinois said in an interview. "It’s unfortunate."

Democratic Representative Louise Slaughter of New York said she was baffled as to why Schumer didn’t say the government shutdown was McConnell’s fault since he’s responsible for getting the votes. “I hear our numbers are dropping like a rock because, supposedly, we closed the government down,” she said.

“We’re taking a great hit,” said Slaughter. “Totally unjustified. And our people just seem to take it flat-footed.”

Democrats also got nothing from the House. Speaker Paul Ryan has promised Republican lawmakers that they won’t be bound by any arrangement reached in the Senate on immigration, House Freedom Caucus Chair Mark Meadows and Representative Doug Collins of Georgia said on Sunday.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-22/senate-democrats-get-little-as-shutdown-fight-ends-with-a-punt?utm_content=politics&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics

....End of Comment.

[Freethinker65]

44. This

Plus the fact in 3 weeks the GOP will hit us with another shitty budget or CR and say if the Democrats do not agree to cloture the Dems are more concerned about rights of “illegals” than funding our grand military...and since the Democrats had no cohesive answer for that (Sen. McCaskill did propose a remedy that got nowhere and got little media attention and got drowned out by the superior GOP blowhards) this time, I have little doubt Schumer will be backed into a corner again.

And so it goes. And Dreamers’ futures are at stake and at the whim of a deranged narcissicist and a complicit Congress. And if by some miracle a comprimise eventually gets passed, Trump and the GOP will take the credit, and the Democrats will go along with it because the ends justify the means. And Schumer and McConnell will go yuk it up at the local bar.

[LovingA2andMI]

47. Exactly....

Senator Claire McCaskill had the MOST COURAGE for at least voting for the first CR but turning RIGHT AROUND and asking for the Military To IMMEDIATELY be Funded on Friday.

Instead of Schumer continuing to push Senator McCaskill's measure and keep the Shutdown going UNTIL her Measure Received an Up or Down Vote on the Floor, he caved like a piece of cooked spaghetti on the same deal that was offered on Friday -- MINUS Pushing For Senator McCaskill's Military Funding Measure.

Those Are The Facts and Many With Open Eyes, Including All Of The Dreamers on "Wait and Let See" Status For The Next Three Weeks...See Just That. Period.



....End of Comment.

[John Fante]

35. The Cons can no longer play the

"Dems care more about illegals than American babies" card. CHIP is funded. They have to pass DACA now.

[LyndaG]

42. Took a peak at Conservative Daily

Their headline says: "McConnell Surrenders." Called the GOP "spineless."

[Fred Sanders]

65. Folks forget CHIP was unconditionally released from prison. What did R's get? Zero!!

Other RW group Daily Caller is saying liberal leftists are attacking Democratic surrender to Shitler.

Divided we fall!

[X_Digger]

54. Tax cuts, apparently. See the thread above yours.

https://politicalwire.com/2018/01/22/tax-cuts-included-government-funding-bill/

"SNIP..........

New York Times: “The deal struck by Democrats and Republicans on Monday to end a brief government shutdown contains $31 billion in tax cuts, including a temporary delay in implementing three health care-related taxes.”

“Those delays, which enjoy varying degrees of bipartisan support, are not offset by any spending cuts or tax increases, and thus will add to a federal budget deficit that is already projected to increase rapidly as last year’s mammoth new tax law takes effect.”

............SNIP"

[NCTraveler]

59. I believe its a good deal...

And I’m proud of Dems for uniting. That really was a solid display of political courage.

In three weeks, what’s going to be attached to DACA? That’s my only concern. I’m very much looking forward to it coming up for a vote. This has been a long war.

[Ms. Toad]

62. The problem is focusing on parties, not people.

I don't care (and have no opinon) on whether Dems were "weak" or "caved," nor do I care if or what the GOP gained.

A big blue wave that drowns Dreamers is nothing I want to be part of.

[Gothmog]

64. From Ezra Klein

Link to tweet

[charliea]

66. It may be a Small Thing but...

I don't know if it's still in the CR but the one that was up for consideration on Friday, changed the handling of money for intelligence projects. The requirement that the administration inform congress when money was moved from one intelligence project to another (in place since 1947) was removed. Now the executive (Trump) has a pile of slush money that he may assign to anything and not bother to tell us.

Yes CHIP extension was needed but I think he Republicans knew they had to reauthorize it. I don't think that the Democrats should have traded anything for it. Certainly not more imperial power for the wotsit (no, I'm not British but I love the word).