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Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:13 PM

gops are already saying there wont be a daca vote.

As I pointed put in another thread (and was told I did not grasp the fine points of politics) they wont bring up a clean daca bill up and down vote. As a matter of fact senator kennedy (R LA) said he would vote against DACA. What he wants is radical reforms to immigration that wont be acceptable to democrats. I stand by my statement that we got played.

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Reply gops are already saying there wont be a daca vote. (Original post)
drray23 Jan 2018 OP
Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #1
regnaD kciN Jan 2018 #15
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2018 #17
hlthe2b Jan 2018 #2
DURHAM D Jan 2018 #4
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #5
onenote Jan 2018 #13
treestar Jan 2018 #18
Arazi Jan 2018 #33
hlthe2b Jan 2018 #51
Arazi Jan 2018 #52
Ace Rothstein Jan 2018 #47
hlthe2b Jan 2018 #50
Ace Rothstein Jan 2018 #53
nini Jan 2018 #57
Xipe Totec Jan 2018 #3
honest.abe Jan 2018 #6
brush Jan 2018 #7
Wellstone ruled Jan 2018 #8
Chipper Chat Jan 2018 #12
Wellstone ruled Jan 2018 #32
Kajun Gal Jan 2018 #9
Vinca Jan 2018 #10
roamer65 Jan 2018 #11
Arazi Jan 2018 #14
Atticus Jan 2018 #16
shenmue Jan 2018 #22
Arazi Jan 2018 #27
shenmue Jan 2018 #29
Arazi Jan 2018 #34
Cha Jan 2018 #31
shenmue Jan 2018 #35
pnwmom Jan 2018 #24
Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #19
appal_jack Jan 2018 #20
BigmanPigman Jan 2018 #49
shenmue Jan 2018 #21
drray23 Jan 2018 #23
shenmue Jan 2018 #25
drray23 Jan 2018 #28
pnwmom Jan 2018 #26
drray23 Jan 2018 #30
Arazi Jan 2018 #36
pnwmom Jan 2018 #38
Post removed Jan 2018 #39
pnwmom Jan 2018 #44
Arazi Jan 2018 #46
pnwmom Jan 2018 #37
Arazi Jan 2018 #40
drray23 Jan 2018 #43
Turbineguy Jan 2018 #41
Honeycombe8 Jan 2018 #45
Honeycombe8 Jan 2018 #42
Freethinker65 Jan 2018 #48
left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #54
OAITW r.2.0 Jan 2018 #55
SummerSnow Jan 2018 #56

Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:15 PM

1. We got what we could. And the GOP will reap the consequences of their dishonesty on

DACA in 18 and 20. We can't do anything for DACA without GOP votes.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:57 PM

15. After today, I doubt they'll "reap" anything...

Read Twitter, etc., for comments from Latinx activists and people deeply involved in the Dreamer movement. They may despise Republicans, but the lesson they've taken from today is that Democrats may talk a good game, but will betray them at the drop of a hat. If you think they're going to rush to the polls to support this crop of Democratic legislators, think again. Only standing strong on the next CR, if/when the Republicans renege on taking up DACA, will be likely to win back their loyalty…and I think we all know that's not going to happen.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:08 PM

17. Whether or not they "rush to the polls" is up to them. But just how long would be long enough to...

satisfy the "activists"? How long do we shut down the government for something that wasn't going anywhere? Trump and the GOP had nothing to lose by waiting us out. Their approval numbers were already in the toilet, and they know that the longer this went on it would drag Democrats down as well.

There's a CNN poll out today that shows the American people agree with a path to citizenship for Dreamers, but they absolutely don't think DACA is worth shutting the government down. The commercials wrote themselves. CHIP was being held hostage, and like it or not, at least 9 million children and their parents can rest easy for the time being.

If "Latin activists" want to change America's positive attitude toward Dreamers to a negative, they'll do exactly what you've laid out in your post.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:15 PM

2. So... what is YOUR solution for how the Dems should have handled the situtation, both today

and in the future? Please be specific. I really want to know.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:17 PM

4. Maybe they could have a kegger?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:18 PM

5. Me too, I want to know too

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:56 PM

13. I've seen this asked in a couple of threads, but have yet to see an answer.

I'm curious, too. What would those objecting to the today's resolution of the shutdown done instead?

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Response to onenote (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:11 PM

18. I've seen a question like this phrased as "an attack"

on the poster.

But they never reveal the better process they know about.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:54 PM

33. 1. Hold firm. 2. Make Rs deny military funding over and over

3. Get Dreamers out on.every talk show, news outlet, newspaper etc. Let people see who they really are.
4. 87% of Americans don't want Dreamers deported and we caved after less than 72 hours? That's bullshit. Wait longer.
5. Get Trump to actually say what he wanted on DACA - we let him just flail when we should have been patient and MADE him say what he thought was a deal (he wants deportation, just like the rest of the R leadership, but they don't dare say it out loud w 87% supporting citizenship). Wait him the fuck out (or at least wait longer than 60 fucking hours)

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Response to Arazi (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:23 PM

51. kudos to you for offering an actual answer. The question was not meant to be a trap but an honest ?

I think all of us are experiencing considerable frustration, given the limitations on what is possible for a party out of power.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:31 PM

52. We had real.power here on this. We caved

We didn't even wait for Trump to publicly tell us what he would accept.

It's so damn heartbreaking. Dreamers will now be deported with 100% certainty. We own that (well, not thosd of us who.opposed this deal plus the Dems, 2 Rs, and Bernie who also opposed this deal) but yeah, this is a monstrous mistake imo

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:10 PM

47. Then why bother shutting the government down for 3 days?

Makes the Dems look spineless.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:21 PM

50. What was your solution? I must have missed it in your response to my question?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:32 PM

53. They should have just voted yes on Friday instead of shutting down the gov and getting nothing.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:30 AM

57. But then this wouldn't have happened today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/short-term-spending-agreement-provides-longer-term-relief-for-chip/2018/01/22/b993369a-ff9e-11e7-8acf-ad2991367d9d_story.html?utm_term=.3d2a3c10485f


The measure approved Monday will ward off that escalating drama, providing about $124 billion through 2023. For the first two years, federal money will pay for at least 88 percent of the program’s expenses in every state — keeping a heightened federal match that was part of the Affordable Care Act. After that, the federal share will decrease over two years to its level before the 2010 ACA.

Not perfect maybe.. but with the current political shitstorm.. it's good. Lots of relieved parents kids medical professionals tonight.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:15 PM

3. We're on a CR, heading for another CR.

It's not like they're out of the woods either.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:22 PM

6. Then filibuster the next cr.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:25 PM

7. Then there will be another shut down. Don't let them bluff you.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:28 PM

8. Feb 8 is the next line in the sand.

Watch the Rethug rhetoric and then the response form Durbin. Schumer appears to have let Durbin run this last show. If McConnell joins in with Kennedy,things will get ugly right quick. I have said this before,Mitch McConnell is one slimy sucker. He will 180 on Schumer before the Feb 8 deadline in order to save face with the Koch Brothers and Adelson Crowds.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:53 PM

12. Another piece of slime is Tom Cotton.

Watch for him to bully his way to the forefront and try to gum up the works. All because he hates all those brown "illegals."

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Response to Chipper Chat (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:53 PM

32. Have a hard time

trying to understand that we are in 2017 and we still have public representatives that just do not get it. Some were last week,a story popped as to the percentage of the Worlds Population being what we would call Caucasian or White . Think the Number is 8%.

The older on gets one understands more of the inner workings of Societies. Not amazed anymore at the number of persons who want the 1950's back thinking they were some magical years. For most it was not,it was a time of innocence and inquiring. Then along came Joe McCarty,Roy Cohn and Richard Nixon to do their best to divide the nation.

Resemblance of today,yes.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)


Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:50 PM

10. This is why every vote counts.

If you don't have a majority, you're SOL. Whether we got played or not doesn't really matter since we have no way of forcing Republicans to vote with us. We can keep the government shut down from now until November and all it will do is piss people off. It won't change the vote count.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:52 PM

11. If they try to deport the dreamers, the unrest is going to be unreal.

Like Elian Gonzales, times 800,000

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 08:57 PM

14. Only thing surprising is that anyone would be surprised

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:02 PM

16. I'm another who apparently does not "grasp the finer points of politics" and I also believe

we've been had. I heard what Kennedy said and I think it is telling that they are not even trying to conceal their intent.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:42 PM

22. HOW ABOUT THE CHIP FUNDING

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Response to shenmue (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:47 PM

27. That was already included in Fridays bill. The Rs had already.given that up

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Response to Arazi (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:50 PM

29. SIX YEARS OF FUNDING

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Response to shenmue (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:56 PM

34. Already in the Friday bill. Rs had already conceded that days ago

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Response to shenmue (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:53 PM

31. They obviously don't care

about the reality of what our Dems got.. only what they had no chance of getting.

Let's remember: 9 million kids' health insurance is at stake in this budget fight...

snip//

Parents of the 9 million children insured through the Children's Health Insurance Program, known as CHIP, are panicking because funding for the program has ... States are scrambling to keep the program going so working-class kids don't los
e the ability to go to the doctor or get needed prescriptions.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/18/lets-remember-9-million-kids-health-insurance-is-at-stake-in-this-budget-fight/?utm_term=.0058e096a039

Mahlao Shenmue

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Response to Cha (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:57 PM

35. Thank you

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Response to Atticus (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:44 PM

24. If we don't get DACA there will be another shutdown. And this time they won't be holding

8 million CHIP recipients hostage.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:13 PM

19. From what I know of this Kennedy fellow I can't say I'm surprised that he would say

 

that. Am I wrong about that?

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:34 PM

20. It's looking like both a moral and tactical failure.

 

Quoting (former DU'er) Will Pitt, "if you're going to do something like this, you stick it out longer than a goddam weekend, or you leave the club in the bag. With this, they failed on both a moral and tactical level. Just stupid self-damage."

I agree with Will here. As far as I am concerned, the DREAMERS are Americans, and deserve a pitched battle by all of us on their behalf. There really can be little debate about the morality without veering into Stephen Miller hater-land.

If a government shutdown was the right tactic, we should have been willing to stick it out for weeks. If it was the wrong tactic, why did we start here? I'll answer my own question at least partly: the CR was the first opportunity for leverage that Democrats had, and they chose to go to the mat over CHIP and DACA. There are about a dozen other issues I think are every bit as important as these two, and could have also been demanded, but I respect Democratic leaders' choice that these two deserve priority. Of the two, Democrats got CHIP for six years, which is no small potatoes (although a later Repub Congress could of course again de-fund it).

The problem with folding on DACA with no real progress on the issue is that there are 800,000 DREAMERS, and their families, AND the larger Hispanic and immigrants' rights communities who now have strong reason to think that Democrats will abandon them the minute the going gets tough. That's bad electoral politics, as well as being moral and tactical failures.

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:13 PM

49. Hear, hear!

We all must do what The Dems failed to do today...stick to our words and "morality" and support ALL AMERICANS (this includes the Dreamers). Call your reps instead of trusting McConnell. Please read this link and share it. THANKS!

http://indivisible.actionkit.com/mailings/view/11584?t=15&akid=11584%2E232934%2Ei6DdPk

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:40 PM

21. We saved nine million kids.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:44 PM

23. it was already in the cr on friday.

we did not do that. nothing was gained between friday and today other than a vague promise from mcconnell to consider daca at a later date. If we were willing to cause a shutdown friday we should not have given up by monday. We accomplished nothing with that other than losing our only hope of getting a clean daca bill done.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:45 PM

25. WE GOT SIX YEARS OF CHIP FUNDING

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Response to shenmue (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:48 PM

28. again..

that 6 years chip was there friday. we would have gotten it without a shutdown. We accomplished nothing other than starting a shutdown and folding after two days. If we are not willing to stick to our guns then we will lose every time.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:46 PM

26. I disagree. We have prepared the path for a long term shutdown starting Feb. 9 if DACA

isn't taken care of, and they won't be able to hold CHIP recipients as hostages anymore.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:51 PM

30. mccconnell said he will only bring daca to the floor

after february 8th IF the government is open. Meaning, we wont be able to force it by a shutdown on the next CR.
Besides, it also wont be a clean daca bill and will end up failing either in senate or house.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:58 PM

36. Yup. This . Folks are not educated on the real details

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Response to Arazi (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:00 PM

38. He can say what he wants but he can't force cloture on a budget extension. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #38)


Response to Post removed (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:03 PM

44. We can all help with our efforts to put pressure on them. I'm sending emails and making calls

and I'm flooding my social media pages with info about this. We all have things we can and should be doing to support the Dreamers on this.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:08 PM

46. Better to have $10 million dollars. Each

Then they'll at least give you a 5 star theatrical display about caring for Dreamers before they join the Rs and vote against them.

Call. Write. Fax. Volunteer.

Won't matter. Dems just fucked their best chance to save DACA

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Response to drray23 (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 09:59 PM

37. Well, we'll be at a stand-off then, because we won't vote for another budget extension

without protection for the Dreamers.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:02 PM

40. Enough Dems can and will cave. Only 14 voted against, and Bernie

The pressure next time will be 20x for red state Dem senators. We're fucked

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:03 PM

43. i hope you are correct

I am not as optimistic. It will be very hard for us to initiate another shutdown. The gop will have no problems turning the public opinion against it and argue we democrats are playing games with the military, federal employees, etc...
We had one opportunity and did not play it right.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:02 PM

41. The repubs made a promise

it's up to them to keep it or break it. They are republicans so they will be looking for a way to renege in their promise without seeming to break it outright.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:05 PM

45. It doesn't matter if they "debate" it. What difference does that make?

You really think that the gang who supporting repealing Obama's DACA law is going to turn 180 and vote FOR DACA? You think their constituents are going to allow that? Even if they did, you really think it'll get through the House and then signed by the W.H.?

This doesn't mean a thing, that I can see.

BTW...McConnell already promised Jeff Flake a vote on immigration in January, in return for his vote on the tax cut bill. Then McConnell didn't put immigration on the floor to vote on. Granted, Schumer is a bigger fish to antagonize, so maybe that will help.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:02 PM

42. Of course not. McConnell promised this to Flake to get his tax cut vote. Then didn't do it.

Maybe it'll come up for debate. And maybe that's what all this is about....tv time on their soapboxes (both sides), for campaign purposes, since this is an election year.

Article I read said it was the 10 Democrats running for reelection in red states that pushed Schumer to do this and end the shutdown. They were panicking.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:12 PM

48. Getting the GOP voting record on horrible amendments they try to attach to DACA is the only positive

...is the only positive from today’s vote. CHIP would have passed regardless.

A clean DACA will now never survive the Senate and House (the GOP know they can dig in their heels and let it expire, and Trump can decide at his whim if he wants to enforce deportations). If Trump decides to play 100% to his base and begins mass deportations and the public outcry becomes too strong, the GOP will blame the enforcement solely on Trump and wash their hands of it. It will be up to the Democratic Party to remind the voters where individual Senators stood by their votes on DACA amendments (even when it does not pass). Good luck.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:43 PM

54. Got a link?

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:54 PM

55. CHIP is in and DACA will be the next line for Democrats.

Sorry, but we can only deal with one BS Republican lie at a time. Meanwhile, they get to defend their indefensible position again...as we get closer to the 2018 elections. DACA repeal is a loser issue for Republicans....let them defend their anti-America inclinations when most Americans are ready to vote these traitors out of office.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:21 AM

56. Of course there won't be a DACA vote. The Rethugs did not play the Dems

The Rethugs played themselves.

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