Three Common-Sense Gun Bills That Can't Pass Congress

[MindMover]

America’s gun laws are truly outrageous: in Colorado they allowed James Holmes to stockpile several weapons in a short period of time, including an AR-15 assault rifle with a high-capacity magazine, without ever registering the purchases with authorities. On the federal level, as we described yesterday, there are efforts underway to put guns into the hands of veterans with mental incapabilities, people on terror watch lists, and to weaken the federal bureau that enforces many gun laws.

President Obama has repeatedly relayed that he is only interested in enforcing “existing” gun laws. Even right-wing pundit Bill Kristol thinks this is misguided: he said on Fox News this weekend that “I actually think the Democrats are being foolish as they are being cowardly. I think there is more support for some moderate forms of gun control.”

So what are some moderate reforms that President Obama could get behind? Here are three bills introduced recently in Congress that would easily fall into the category of “common sense”—yet cannot seem to be passed.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169038/three-common-sense-gun-bills-cant-pass-congress?rel=emailNation%22#

[Tejas]

1. ATF is facing enough charges as it is, don't

make it any worse.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Again, factually flawed

[MindMover]

3. Please enlighten us, Professor ... how is this article factually incorrect ...ty

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. It started in the first paragraph

assault rifle

It was a semi automatic rifle in the most common format sold today. It was not an assault rifle, the sale of which is illegal

"without ever registering the purchases with authorities"

Background checks and registration were done for the firearms


Two lies in the first paragraph...

[MindMover]

20. An M&P 15 is a military and police semi-auto rifle ....

"The "M&P" stands for "Military & Police," and it puts this line of 5.56mm (.223 Remington) 16-inch semi-automatic carbines in the forefront of Smith & Wesson's continuing century-plus tradition of duty-oriented M&P firearms that date back to the world's first .38 Special revolver in 1899 the S&W .38 Hand Ejector Military & Police."

"With its hereditary links to the M-16, the signature weapon of the Vietnam War and, until recent years, the principal rifle used by American infantry units, weapons like the AR-15 were tightly restricted under a 1994 law known as the assault weapons ban. The law expired in 2004."

He did purchase the weapons legally .... that is the problem .... he purchased them legally .... background checks and registration with the dealer ... and we all know what a wink and nod and $100 dollar bill will do with some dealers.

[justanidea]

23. I dont know of any dealer who would risk

10 years in prison for $100.

[MindMover]

28. Right, you really do not know what you are talking about ....

[NickB79]

36. "Unlicensed, online gun dealers". Swing and a miss.

This isn't evidence of licensed gun dealers breaking the law. In almost all states gun sales are legal with no background check if they're between two private citizens. Even if a private citizen wanted to, he or she couldn't even use the Instant Check background system because only licensed gun dealers are allowed to call into it!

Hell, look in any classifieds paper and you'll find guns for sale printed right there. I've sold hunting rifles in just such this fashion, with the purchaser meeting me at my house. Cash or check, he takes the gun, all perfectly legal.

Only when the guns are shipped through the mail, and especially when they move across state lines, do they have to be transferred to a licensed dealer who would then be obligated to run a background check.

[MindMover]

38. Yeah right ...

50% of Dealers Willing to Sell Handguns Illegally, Study Says

A study released today by researchers at U.C.L.A. says half of firearms dealers questioned in an undercover survey were willing to allow buyers to make ''straw purchases'' that could violate federal law.

The researchers said the report, which they described as the first academic study of its kind, demonstrated the willingness of many dealers ''to ignore or sidestep'' laws. The findings were published today in Injury Prevention, a peer-reviewed academic journal.

Officials with the gun industry and the government, who have joined in an effort to make dealers aware of their legal responsibilities, said they did not believe that straw purchases were common.

''Our message is if you have any doubt about whether it's a legitimate sale or not, you should not make the sale,'' said Larry Keane, vice president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, an organization in Newtown, Conn., that represents dealers and others in the industry.

Researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles, posing as potential buyers, called 120 dealers in 20 cities, giving different scenes for wanting to buy guns. The researchers found that when they said they wanted to buy guns for a boyfriend or girlfriend who ''needs it,'' 52.5 percent of dealers were willing to make the sales.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/us/50-of-dealers-willing-to-sell-handguns-illegally-study-says.html?src=pm

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. The article still contains lies...no matter how much lipstick you put on it

If authors quit with the poutrage, hyperbole, and lies they could still effectively make their points and maintain credibility. This article fails but did not have to.

[MindMover]

29. Your super indignation is completely offbase and exaggerated like ..

most gun enthusiasts posts ... and you are right about the lipstick part of your argument ....

You will never be able to put enough lipstick on your arguments to quell the tsunami of outrage that is coming towards gun lovers and warmongers ....

[justanidea]

4. Ah the old ".50 cal can shoot down an airplane" meme

That one's always good for a laugh.

As far as "assault weapons" are concerned.

1. The '94 ban had a list of features which made a gun an assault weapon. Bayonet lugs, adjustable stocks, pistol grips,and the like. All cosmetic/ergonomic features which have nothing to do with firepower. "Assault weapons" didn't even exist before the law. The classification was completely fabricated with no real substance to back it up, other than the firearms appearance.

2. In 2010, ALL types of rifles were only used in 358 homicides. Less than hands and feet. There is no epidemic of "assault weapon" violence which urges sweeping nationwide legislation affecting millions of people. ESPECIALLY when that legislation was proved to have accomplished nothing last time it was passed. Even a CDC study done in 2002 said that there was no evidence that could be found to prove the AWB accomplished anything.

[MindMover]

5. Yea, I remember the time I took my little one out for a hunt with ...

my .................50 cal buckled to the front of the car....

[justanidea]

7. .50 cal rifles generally aren't used for hunting.

They're used for super long range target shooting.

Of course you knew that and are just trying to be snarky.

[MindMover]

9. They are used for hunting people ... human target shooting ...

of course you knew that and are just being defensive ...

[justanidea]

14. Oh really?

Please link me to all the crimes in the US involving .50 caliber rifles.

Ill kindly wait for all these examples of human hunting going on.

[rl6214]

15. You of course are going to provide a link to anywhere that has happened

other than a battlefield?

[MindMover]

17. I said that the .50 cal is used for human killing...

This is a factual statement. This is not hyperbole. I have used a .50 cal in my military experience. A .50 cal has no use in civilian life. It is a weapon used for killing people and sometimes large animals and at times mowing down trees.

[justanidea]

19. Ok?

So what if its used by the military? Lots of guns have been used by the military. The Mosin Nagant was the Russian sniper rifle of WWI and WWII designed to hunt people.

Yet it is owned by countless civilians because it is a reliable bolt action rifle.

The fact is almost any typical hunting rifle in the US could be taken and used by the military as a sniper rifle and it would do the job just fine.

[MindMover]

21. Ridiculous statement. I will not comment due to your ignorance.

[justanidea]

22. There is nothing ridiculous about it.

You oppose the .50 because it was "made to kill people" but ignore the fact that there are tons of others developed for that purpose throughout history.

Any high power rifle with a good quality scope could be used to "hunt people". I could grab an off the shelf Remington 700 tomorrow, throw on some good glass, go to the range, and connect with targets at 300+ yards quite easily. The 50 only has an advantage in that it can reach out farther than most calibers.

[sarisataka]

26. Have more faith in yourself

I have shot standard M-16s out to 600 yards. A model 700 with a good scope you can take out to 800 to 1000 if you want to with practice.

[MindMover]

34. So that is why they moved the targets from 100 yards to 50 yards

on our training site when we were certifying in basic with our M-16s.

"You will hear people say that they can consistently get 10 and X ring shots at 500 plus yards with the .223, but first check what is being used at the national high power matches for 1000 yds. and compare calibers to the top scores. The national matches are documented and more reliable source of information than a blog saying “Last Saturday I shot an 8 inch group at 1,000 yards with my .223”."

Yeah right, 1000 yards everyday .... with my trusty M16 ...

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/41483660@N04/7644965246/][img][/img][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/41483660@N04/7644965246/]220px-Bundeswehr_shooting_M16[/url]

[sarisataka]

35. At 600 yards you are not going to shoot out any X ring with an M-16

But we were hitting D-mods 80%+
Not if you want to go farther or have better accuracy than 8-12" you will need something 30 cal. and a scope would be nice too.

What they put us on a range with 50 yrd targets, we asked if we can throw rocks at them

[Kaleva]

27. Well, it's a true statement. The Mosin-Nagant M91/30 was used as a sniping rifle during WWII

The best and most accurate examples of the M91/30 were selected and with a couple of modifications (being fitted with a bent bolt which put the handle down to the 5 o'clock position and holes were drilled and tapped to allow the mounting of a scope), the rifle then became the Mosin-Nagant M91/30 sniper rifle.

Here's a couple of pics. Note the difference in the handles.





Many, many thousands of Mosin-Nagants have been imported into this country where they are often used as target and hunting rifles.

"With the fall of the Iron Curtain, a large quantity of Mosin–Nagants have found their way onto markets outside of Russia as collectibles and hunting rifles. Due to the large surplus created by the Soviet small arms industry during World War II and the tendency of the former Soviet Union to retain and store large quantities of old but well-preserved surplus (long after other nations militaries divested themselves of similar vintage materials), these rifles (mostly M1891/30 rifles and M1944 carbines) are inexpensive compared to similar surplus arms, and possibly the cheapest firearm of the day, often found at under $100 USD."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin-Nagant#Civilian_use

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. By soldiers.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no cases of civilian .50s being used against humans. People buy them for long range target shooting and other recreational uses (and in some cases, as a "just in case" sort of thing, I suppose).

[slackmaster]

33. I've never hunted people with my .50 caliber target rifle

I've met about a dozen other people who own them. None of them has ever hunted people either.

Hitting a gong at 700 yards or more is challenging and fun.

[X_Digger]

37. And if they were banned, how long would it take..

.. for a .499 caliber rifle to be made, and the whining for more laws to begin.. lather, rinse, repeat..

[spanone]

6. gun nuttery is the most bipartisan issue in this country

[backwoodsbob]

8. gun grabbing

is the most divisive issue in the country

[spanone]

10. who's grabbing who's guns? right, nobody

[MindMover]

12. I grab my gun sometimes all alone ...

but then I learned a long time ago in a far away land that "this is my rifle, this is my gun....this is for shootin and this is for fun...."

[krispos42]

11. How would the government knowing before hand that he had the guns...

...helped?


After they arrest him, "Oh, look, he's got a registered AR-15, 2 registered Glock 22s, and a registered Remington 870".


Which is EXACTLY what happened anyway, and his stuff wasn't registered!




And since there is no due process to get on a terrorist watch list, it can't be used to deny rights. Let's face it, Congress was to pass a law that people on the terrorist watch list couldn't vote, the Republicans would immediately use this to put lots of people names "Hernandez" and such on the list. Would Democrats agree that a person on the terrorist watch list also couldn't vote, had no privacy rights, and couldn't speak freely or get a jury trial?

[rl6214]

13. Item by item

"America’s gun laws are truly outrageous: in Colorado they allowed James Holmes to stockpile several weapons in a short period of time, including an AR-15 assault rifle"

Already shown time after time to be incorrect


1) Reinstate the AWB

It was a failure the first time around and would not have prevented this at all

2) Ban on high capacity magazines

Where do you set the limit?

3)Regulate sniper rifles-"could be used to shoot down aircraft, rupture pressurized chemical tanks, or penetrate armored personnel carriers” and “have little sporting, hunting, or recreational purpose.” (worn out tired lie)

Not relevant to this shooting AND sniper rifles are not used in crimes nor have there been any shootings using them

[MindMover]

18. We will be setting limits .... FINALLY ....

and you can then go make your own .....

[rl6214]

25. Um, ok

[kctim]

31. Set all you want

you won't be able to enforce them.

[slackmaster]

32. Appealing to "common sense" is just a way of poisoning the well for any potential dialogue

If you don't agree with something that is called common sense, you must not be a sensible person.