This message was self-deleted by its author

[Freedomofspeech]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Freedomofspeech) on Mon Jan 29, 2018, 11:31 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I don't know what a gun bash is.

[Freedomofspeech]

3. They sell tickets to win guns...serve lunch and give away lots and lots of guns.

[SharonClark]

33. My nephew won a gun at a raffle in MO and then threatened to

kill himself with it. No one in the family is happy about that.

[Ohiogal]

36. Oh no!

How dreadful! Guns shouldn't be handed out like party favors!

[Skittles]

34. it is a gun humper get-together

pathetic people

[Towlie]

2. It's sad to hear of firefighters doing something like this. I like to think of them as heros.

gun bash

[Freedomofspeech]

4. Unfortunately our fireman are all volunteers. These are their biggest fundraisers around here.

[MineralMan]

5. Here is a link to the story about the mass shooting you referred to:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141973748

[Freedomofspeech]

8. That is part of the school district that I retired from...

One of my former students posted that a couple of her relatives were killed and that it is domestic violence related.

[MineralMan]

10. Very sad!

[Iggo]

6. Gunfuckers gonna gunfuck. (n/t)

[aikoaiko]

7. Fundraisers work well when you offer something the people want.

Every fundraiser that raffles guns (that I know of) has the winner pick up the gun at an FFL gun shop and a background check is completed before the transfer of the firearm.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. I've certainly bought my share of tickets!

[USALiberal]

28. LOL, ok, how cute! T

[Kirk Lover]

11. I don't understand the obsession and having parties revolving (pun intended) around guns.

A gun bash? I find that an odd name for a party. OK so you have guns, you hunt, you want them for protection..fine I can 'get' that...but please explain how it's helpful to glorify these killing mechanisms in this fashion? Guns are serious business not fun and games.

[Freedomofspeech]

12. This is an area in SW, PA that is full of gun lovers.

The fire departments sell tickets, serve food and every fifteen minutes they give away a gun. Plus they sell lots of extra raffle tickets for even more guns. They last about five hours, so they give away lots and lots of guns and the fire dept. makes thousands of dollars. Our local schools shut down the first two days of deer season so the kids can hunt. Yep.

[Kirk Lover]

14. I understand the audience....but the way we deal with guns in this

country is much too casual. This fundraiser is another good example of that. You're in SW PA, I have a place just outside of NW PA - and it's pretty much the same thing. LOL. I've never seen a gun bash around here though, I've only seen the local FD grub money on the road. The fundraisers focus more on food around here but make no mistake this is a rural area.

Honestly, it is OUTRAGEOUS that a school would close for that reason. That shows what priorities are what and education isn't it.

[Ohiogal]

17. Speaking of NW PA

My hubby and I made a trip to Titusville PA the September before the election..... I think I must've seen over 100 Trump signs once we got on Rt. 8 ... Some very nasty signs about Hillary, as well. It was very depressing.

[Kirk Lover]

20. And the depression continues...LOL, but there is a light now up ahead...I see it it's just a glimmer

But I think by this time next year our spirits will be lifted and it's going to get harder and harder to find folks to admit they voted for this trashpot. At least thats what I hope will happen so that's what I'm going with !

[Freedomofspeech]

21. It has been happening for years around here because the absentee rate is so high the first couple

days of deer season. My students knew my rule...do not even think of showing me a picture of your dead deer or tell me anything about it.

[Kirk Lover]

24. I'd be the same exact way. My neighbor who hunts knows to not say a peep to me about it and

I've just taken to leaving the area before the season starts. I don't find the sound of shooting comforting or calming - call me crazy.

[smirkymonkey]

31. +1000

This country is so sick in so many ways.

[NickB79]

37. In poor rural areas, a couple of deer feed you a long time

My school did the same thing, for similar reasons.

[farmbo]

40. In Ohio, we prefer Turkey Shoots

Alas, we don’t shoot at actual turkeys like they did in the pioneer days; just target shooting on a typical turkey target range and the winners take home frozen turkeys or venison. It usually costs $50- $100 bucks to enter, and they serve lunch.
Plenty of guns around— shotguns and rifles mostly— and a few gun raffles.

But seriously, these sort of events ( like the OP’s Volunteer Fire Dept raffle) are usually family oriented and blue collar. And if you’re a decent shot, they can be a blast.

We DUers need to Chill over —and maybe even participate in —these sort of events. We should support this sort of community-centric gun ownership.

On the other hand, a weekend gun show on the outskirts of Cleveland, Cincinnati, or Pittsburgh is one of the Creepiest events you’’ll ever experience. From the losers in the parking lot hitting you up for “zero background check” sales, to the Alt Right (read: Nazi) political booths inside, you will meet some of the dregs of society. And they’ll be buying every firearm imaginable, from cheap Saturday Night Specials to .50 Cal Sniper rifles, which can bring down an airliner.

A gun raffle at the Firehouse is pretty weak tea compared to those commercial gun shows.

[hexola]

54. The prizes are almost always long guns, rifles...not handguns.

Nor semi-auto anything...plus often you can just take the cash.

Agree with your take...it's an event where the community gets together for the afternoon - drink a little beer and socialize.

I DJ a gun drawing every year...Im sort of the token liberal - but its my old high school friends - and I look forward to it every year.

[Blues Heron]

16. It's the same reward center in their brains as drugs or sex

They get off on them, obsess, etc. It's a form of mental illness.

[Kirk Lover]

18. Yes the gun is filling some sort of void in there life. n/t

[Blues Heron]

23. Also they're frustrated

Because they rarely get to use their toys for their intended purpose. Target shooting is fun, but it's not the "real thing"

[Hassin Bin Sober]

26. Yeah, I was thinking they could raffle Krispy Kreme and Oxycodone.

Probably less dangerous.

[Hangingon]

41. Drug overdoses last year killed more than the Vietnamwar - 64,000.

That is twice the number attributed to guns.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. I was kind of thinkin' of innocent bystanders, school children and ex wives.

Opioids are a big problem but at least people only harm themselves. But that's a whole other subject.

[lindysalsagal]

29. Dopamine reward cycle: social media delivers, too.

People will die to get their fix, and don't even know they're posessed.

We have an addiction society. In the old days, it was beer, wine, meade, grog, whatever. But they had to drink it cause the water wasn't safe. We have no excuse.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. Do y'all talk like this about ATV raffles?

[TheBlackAdder]

13. During a Fascist takeover, this could provide a list of which homes to raid first to seize weapons.

[VOX]

15. WTF happened to Tupperware parties?

Giving away death-dealing guns at a raffle is obscene.

[Ohiogal]

22. It should be illegal!

But as long as they make a lot of $ and every one loves their guns, they will keep having them.

And, a gun and purse bash? ...there are no words .....

[Freedomofspeech]

25. No kidding...

I can hardly stand to leave my house anymore. I think camouflage is the official color of PA.

[VOX]

48. Yes, it should be EXTREMELY illegal.

A large segment of Americans not only lack
the ability to think critically, they’ve lost basic common sense.

[Marengo]

67. Why should it be illegal?

[Freedomofspeech]

19. I find it horrifying. We are at the point we need to get out of this area.

[bronxiteforever]

27. Rx opiates, heroin, guns and gop made lg parts of pa dead zones.

And coal ain’t coming back. sorry plus meth!

[Ohiogal]

30. You'd think

that firemen, among the network of "first responders", would be seeing up close and personal, what happens when guns fall into the wrong hands ... Yet here they are handing them out as prizes .... It is so wrong!

[Baconator]

39. Rurally the ratios are probably seen as pretty reasonable...

Off and on accidents, drug deals maybe...

But 99.9 % of their gun encounters are probably routine and normal for the culture.

[blue neen]

42. I think maybe you're not understanding that people in SW PA are heartbroken today.

I totally get where the OP is coming from: http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2018/01/28/Pennsylvania-mass-shooting-Melcroft-Fayette-County-Tim-Smith/stories/201801280178

One family lost two children today to gun violence. Not routine. Not normal.

[Baconator]

43. Exactly... Not routine... Not normal...

It's the exception...

The vast majority of folks in that sort of community have daily, regular interactions with guns, gun owners etc..

The vast vast vast majority turn out anywhere from neutral to good.

[blue neen]

45. What "sort of community"? You're missing the point, I believe.

In the same area, good instincts by a student on a bus saved a lot of lives just last week: http://triblive.com/local/regional/13228374-74/14-year-old-boy-arrested-weapons-confiscated-after-threat-toward-uniontown-high-school-police

Also, in the same area, another school is cancelling classes tomorrow because of a shooting threat: http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2018/01/26/school-shooting-threat-Laurel-Highlands-Fayette-County-Monday/stories/201801260184

You might notice that the DA who made the announcements of the Gun Deaths today is the same DA who had to make the announcement about the threat at Uniontown High School on Thursday.

Gun violence has become a way of life.

I noticed your post in post #38. "Sounds like Fun"? Nice of you to be so glib when so much tragedy and disruption is occurring on our doorsteps.

I'm done. Seen all in this thread that I need to see.

[Baconator]

47. K...

I'm just talking about the math and not the emotions.

[hexola]

63. Thanks for the linkage

Good infos...

[sweetapogee]

46. I am a

volunteer firefighter/EMT in rural PA. We raffle off guns to raise funds. What would you like to know about us first responders, those of us that are up close and personal and guns? Ask away.

[hexola]

64. Have you ever showed up at a call where the shooter used one of the guns you raffled?

I would think the answer is probably no.

[Clarity2]

32. Around here

we have spagetti dinners or lobster dinners for fundraisers...car washes...casino night. I understand the value of deer hunting and all, being overriden with deer in my area, and Lyme being an issue. But like you, dont want it glorified, nor guns glorified. Keep it all on the down low.

Just curious, we’re not talking about assault or hand guns being raffled? Shot guns and rifles? I’d be wanting to move if I was surrounded by gun wing nuts. And fire depts shouldnt be in the business of arming them.

[hexola]

65. Just shot guns and rifles

The drawing Im associated with uses a dealer with a FFL (I think thats the term) - to procure the guns.

And usually only 1 or 2 guns - I might remember 3 one time.

But these are usually stuff like "Henry 22" - not much of a gun.

Once in a while they have a nicer one...

I do not like when one of the guns is a "kids" model...wish they wouldn't do that.

[Baconator]

38. Sounds fun...

Raffle or picnic and sales event?

[USALiberal]

44. Only for the gun obsessed. nt

[hexola]

62. The guns aren't the stars at these events.

Nobody wins until the end...

They are social events - plain and simple.

I'd be more concerned if my local bank was giving out guns ala Bowling For Columbine

[Lee-Lee]

50. The reaction to this shows muchof the profound disconnection our party has with rural America

And is a good example of how we end up losing states like PA.

“OMG it’s guns those people are inbred redneck idiots” isn’t going to win a single one of them over.

It’s a fundraising event. Done by a group of people who raise their own money in order to be able to fund the ability to spend their own time, unpaid, to go out and risk their lives in order to help others- including help any of us.

Most Americans are not civic minded enough to even organize a mere fundraiser. These folks did this fundraiser as a small part of a much bigger volunteer effort where between fundraising and training and maintenance and actual calls most of them probably dedicate thousands of unpaid hours a year to their community.l, often called away from family activities or in the middle of the night.

What do we do? Bash them because they raffled off some guns as a fundraiser for them. Bash them because as first responders they should “know better”- despite everyone saying that probably never having been a first responder of any sort and certainly not in that community to know what they see or don’t.

Instead of praising people who dedicate thousands of unpaid volunteer hours and risk their lives to help others, on DU we pick the one reason to bash them. Instead of pausing people willing to step up and help them financially we bash them because they like guns.

[Lars39]

52. They could choose something besides guns to raffle.

Where I live the fire trucks respond with the EMTs, also seeing the results of gun violence.

[Lee-Lee]

58. They know what brings in people on their area

As I suggested to the original poster below if they or anyone else thinks they should be raffling off something else I would encourage them to go buy an example of what they think would be a good substitute for them to raffle off and donate it to them for the next event.

Just about any possible item, however, will carry the same risks that it will possibly result in someone injured. Thinking about the possible items they could do:

A grill- we’ll, fire departments see a lot of fires and injuries due to grills every year. Given than most gun violence is in urban areas and drug/gang related in their district there is a good chance they respond to more calls involving grills than guns every year. When I was a deputy sheriff in a rural NC county we definitely had more calls to the FDs for grill burns and fires than for gunshot wounds.

Canoe- risk of drowning there

A car? They injure far more people a year and I promise they respond to far more car related cars in a month than gun ranted calls in many years.

ATV? Way more calls.

No matter what they do, any item that would enesate enough interest to be a worthwhile fundraiser will probably have some sort of risk of injury.

If you divorce the emotional and political gut reaction most people here have when the word gun is mentioned, and look at it based on the way rural areas are there really isn’t any great risk to the community or any other problem created by raffling off 10-15 guns. As in it’s statistically negligible.

[hexola]

61. Our FireCo has an annual ATV raffle...

But probably some guns too...

[Lars39]

68. A simple money lottery would bring them in,too.

[hexola]

69. We have that...It's called "BINGO"

Or for all you serious gamblers..."Big Bucks BINGO"

[Freedomofspeech]

53. With all due respect...

I have lived in this area my whole life...we are never going to win these people over. Unless you live in such an area you cannot understand the mind set of these people. This is not a multi-cultural area. There are few blacks in the area, no Hispanics and other than a few Muslim doctors, they see no one but their white neighbors. These people are racists...period. A local school had a Hick Day and the students were chanting Build the Wall at black students on an opposing basketball team.
We recently had a local church sponsor a Syrian family but they had to leave the area because they were treated so badly. These people do not travel...many of them have never been to the city of Pittsburgh (maybe on a school field trip)...45 miles away.
We had to have security cameras installed because every time we put out political signs, they are stolen. During the last presidential election, in the middle of the night, someone surrounded our home with trump signs. We cannot have bumper stickers on our car for fear of retaliation. The only restaurants that we go to are the ones that do not have Fox News on and that limits us.
I certainly respect your opinion and if someone could figure out a way to get to these people, that would be amazing. We are in the process of leaving the area because we are drowning here.

[Lee-Lee]

57. Ive lived and worked in just such an area- in the south no less

If you project that everyone around you is a racist and dismiss them as such then that’s all you will see and the ones who are not will just resent you for the assumption.

Can I assume that if your home is on fire or you have a medical emergency you won’t call 911, since you wouldn’t want a bunch of racist scumbags coming to help you? And don’t say “it’s their job”, because they are volunteers so it’s not their job it’s something extra that do they are not required to.

But you wouldn’t want or need the help of such horrible people, would you?

If you hesitate at all to say absolutely yes to that question, then you are seeing not only is there a redeeming value in these people that they would drop everything and rush to help you in a moment of need, but that you need that and the safety net they provide. And if you can see and understand the redeeming value of them there then maybe you can see them as real people who maybe you can reach some of.

Will you reach all of them, of course not. Maybe not even most. But some of you try.

But if you just wholesale dismiss them as all racists and scum and talk about them only in condescending tones and attitudes you won’t win any over, and you will just drive more away.

Instead of complaining about them raffling guns, how about you buy something like a nice grill, smoker, some fishing gear, a canoe or anything else that would draw people in and donate it to them for their next event to raffle, and say “I appreciate all you folks do as volunteers and wanted to give you something else to raffle off”. Don’t get political about guns, don’t editorialize why you did it, just give it in good faith. If your a member of the party on the local level donate it as from “XXX County Democrats”.

If what you say about your recption in the community is true then they all know your politics. Their opinion of you and your opinions is going to be shaded by how you interact with them. You can continue to be condescending and bash them and let them think that’s the example of what liberals are all about, or you can show support for what they do in a way that helps them and if it leads them to buy one less gun to raffle at the next event you can see as a small win for you as well.

But keep going the route you are if you want. But don’t be surprised if your welcome is the same. And the same goes for our party at all levels when trying to gain support in such rural areas.

[Freedomofspeech]

59. We do tons of things for our local community...

I have served as president of our local Chamber of Commerce and while doing so we started a lot of new programs in the area. My husband and I give a lot of money annually to our local fire department and have worked on other fund raisers for them.
We opened our home during the Obama Campaign and there would be days that we would have 30 people here making phone calls and knocking on doors. Our home was #1 in the state for calls and door knocks and our team captain was invited to the White House. We have worked for our local food bank, and Meals on Wheels.
You have no idea who I am or what I have done for my local area. We are a target because we are well known in the community because of the work we do but people also know our politics. I have tried to be reasonable about this but I do not appreciate you bashing me. I posted this to let you know how people in an area like this live and think. So sorry that I have offended you. I will crawl back into my hole because I am responsible for so much wrong doing and obviously I do not deserve to have any peace.

[Paladin]

60. Don't waste your time, getting defensive over pro-gun flame bait. (nt)

[Freedomofspeech]

66. You are right...

Thank you.

[strongermessage]

70. Great response.

Not only does Lee-lee know nothing about you, he/she also missed the point of your original post. All you were doing was pointing out how pervasive the gun culture is in the area where you live.

[hexola]

51. In Central PA - its called a "Gun Drawing"

They are used as fundraisers for various groups.

I work one every year for Pheasants Forever....

Basically a Raffle - but the gaming can take various forms.

When I first moved here - I wondered why the heck they all got together to draw guns? Artists?

Even more confounding was the "Turkey Shoot" - WTF - how hard is it to shoot a Turkey!?

Turns out - you win a frozen Turkey for having the best shot...!

[Hoyt]

55. Never heard of them, so I did a little research. Photos -- white wingers, found discussions

about them on sites where confederate flag and 3%er avatars seemed common, and worse.

This gun crud needs to stop.

[Freedomofspeech]

56. Yep...that's it.