Why doesn't our side know how to frame a debate?

[louis c]

I see poll numbers for Trump and the Republicans improving, and the annalists are saying it's due to the tax cut.

The Democrats have framed this issue all wrong. My take home did go up, by about $25 a week.

But that money does not come from Trump and the Republicans, it comes from our kids. The deficit is scheduled to hit $1 trillion in fiscal year 2019, up by about $300 billion and that's all due to the tax cut.

The debt ceiling, which needs to be increased by a Congressional vote, was scheduled in March. It has been moved up a month, because we are borrowing money at a faster rate than expected because of the tax cuts. 80% of the cuts go to the wealthiest 10%.

The Democrats, or any super pac, should be running a TV ad that goes something like this.

A blue collar worker and his wife (also a blue collar worker) sit at their kitchen table. The Husband says to the wife "my take home pay is up $25 a week", the wife says, "so is mine". The husband says, "We really should thank those who are responsible for this." They enter their kids bed room and say "Hey kids, thanks for the extra money. Now make sure you get plenty of rest, you're going to need to work harder when you grow up to pay for this".

Then the voice over explains the increase in the deficit, the increase in the debt ceiling and the fact that the richest Americans get most of the benefits. But your kids pay the bill.

[kentuck]

1. Because Democrats focus more on policies and Repubs focus more on politics.

Politics requires more refined persuasion.

[Hortensis]

12. Republican politics depends today 100% on lies and dirty tricks.

Hard to imagine how one could see today's massive Republican corruption as more "refined" than Democratic honesty.

I admire the economy of words used to express your belief, though. A competence usually beyond me.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. I've wondered that, too! Why don't they hire George Lakoff

to come in and teach them the art of creating a message and then staying on message.

For example: George Lakoff said several months ago that regulations should be referred to as protections for Americans and consumers.

Frank Luntz said yesterday on Morning Joe that republicans this fall will be running for office on the message that regulations hold businesses back.

Democrats need to run on regulations are protections!

[louis c]

3. That's another issue I agree with you on...

...regulations are for workers' safety, consumer protection and to prevent powerful people from stealing from us.

We really suck at messaging.

[treestar]

15. Maybe they don't agree with him?

Or maybe they already refer to regulations that way? It is hard to believe they never have. The term is Consumer Protection Agency. Somebody already thought of that.

[TheDebbieDee]

24. It doesn't have to be Lakoff - it can be anybody

Who can keep them on message. I"m sick of having to depend on a party of weak, ineffectual losers to protect me...

Also, can you name any other agencies other than EPA with protect in their name?

[treestar]

35. Why are you calling them that?

And how did they get in charge with those qualities?

My only suggestion would have to be: go for it yourself. That is not meant snarky. That's the only way you can be influential on the "messaging."

[mcar]

4. Another bash Democrats thread on DU

That's how many this week?

[louis c]

8. How is this bashing?

It's constructive criticism with an affirmative suggestion.

[writerJT]

11. No questions, please. Just march in lockstep

and do very little, if any, critical thinking. Thank you for your cooperation.

[treestar]

14. It is not new at all

I was chided for telling a poster who said exactly this, but the idea is, put nicely, you don't have the job with the DNC. It seems like you are more qualified than whoever has that job. Therefore, you should try to get that job. Or at least write the DNC a letter telling them what they are doing wrong and giving them these helpful suggestions. Just claiming they suck at messaging and not doing anything about it can hardly help. There are many Democrats. They can't all suck at messaging.

[louis c]

17. I post here. I have a day job that has to do with messaging

for local unions.

I post here, hoping somebody in the DNC or holding a position of influence in the Democratic Party sees it and reacts.

They read the same polls as I do, they see the same interviews as I do. I would hope they try something new that works.

We have our own union web sites and we go over all the suggestions and criticism of our members each day. We take them into account and apply that information to our messaging.

Our union and I have donated plenty of money to the Democratic Party and will continue to do so.

But the message is not uniform or convincing. Our side always has a problem of keeping our message simple. "Ya, your paycheck may be $25 more this week, but the Republicans stole it from yourr kids."

[RKP5637]

27. I agree with all you've said. Democratic messaging is a problem! n/t

[louis c]

28. We are on the side of the angels...

Last edited Thu Feb 1, 2018, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

...but we have to convince people who have a very short attention span to vote in their own best interest, while the other side exploits their hatreds and fears.

We need to do it in a very concise and simple way. I realize we also need to also have a convincing argument for the third of the population that respects knowledge and is willing to put in the time and energy to do that research.

But the swing voters remind me of a trial jury. We have this tremendously complex legal case, and the court chooses the 12 people with the least amount of information and knowledge on the matter at hand to make the final judgment.

[RKP5637]

31. Yes, it needs IMO to be short crisp messaging. I recall when Kerry was running, his messaging was

so deep that I think many tuned out. It needs to be short and crisp. Trump, for example, makes use of this. His messaging might sound/be stupid, but it sticks because it's easily remembered. That does not mean our messaging needs to be hateful and stupid, but short and crisp.

[LeftInTX]

34. You're better off writing the DNC

I know people in the DNC, they have never heard of DU.

[louis c]

36. Maybe that's their problem

You would think somebody there should be looking at this site.

They would get a better idea about how the grass roots activists feel, and it doesn't cost them a dime.

[mountain grammy]

5. Republicans lie,

Last edited Thu Feb 1, 2018, 12:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I honestly believe we can win by telling the truth. Time to get positive and fight back. The DNC shoudl be running ads about the debt ceiling needing to be raised early due to tax cuts on the rich.

[TheDebbieDee]

25. A lie gets out of bed and circles the world

three times while the truth is still putting on its socks...

[ismnotwasm]

6. Which Democrats are you talking about?

[louis c]

9. DNC (NT)

[Mr. Sparkle]

7. The Democrats appear awful on tv when ever i see them. They come across as weak and timid.

and whenever someone breaks through the mould, they are eventually engulfed in a scandal fake or otherwise by the right and end up with little or no support from their own party. Names that spring to mind are Al Franken , Alan Grayson and Anthony Weiner.

You should not have to appear perfect to be in the democratic party, we are not the ones who go around moralizing, pretending to be a bunch a family values hypocrites. Yet the democrats quickly though theirs overboard at the first sign of trouble. Meanwhile their is allegedly a serial rapist in the white house.

[shraby]

10. Because what the republicans do is catapult the propaganda, and that's all it is is

propaganda.
No substance, no individual thought, just pure propaganda. I'd rather not listen to that drivel.

[Orrex]

23. This

They endlessly chant slogans and hot-button mantras, and a sea of passive viewers lap it up.

Republicans are much better at playing to the lowest common denominator, appealing to hatred, fear, ignorance and racism, under the false guise of family values, patriotism, and a Pro-Life America™.

At the same time, they aggressively pursue an agenda of voter suppression and disenfranchisement, because they know that the actual popular majority favors Democratic principles.

They only way they can continue to win is through gerrymandering, deceit and shameless propaganda.

[treestar]

13. We always see this said

about the Democrats. I would think they would have heard it all by now. So maybe there is a reason why it is not done as you suggest? Maybe that would not resonate with most people. You're not in charge of writing the ads, and whoever is has not thought of doing it this way. Or maybe they did, and thought it would alienate more voters than gain more voters?

We will see the ads when the election gets closer, and I will be curious to see what they are going to say.

[louis c]

21. We should be framing the debate now.

As for me, personally, I have donated thousands of dollars, personally, to Democratic causes. I serve as the chair of the Democratic party in my community, I have worked on dozens of Democratic campaigns, going back as far as George McGovern. I serve on Union PACs.

I have put time and money where my mouth is for a generation. We have been very successful, both in union messaging and Democratic messaging at the state level in Massachusetts. We have increased our minimum wage, beat back a heavily financed ballot question to advance charter schools, improved the work environment for nurses and passed the first mandatory sick leave in America, all through ballot initiatives and proper messaging. We have 2 progressive US Senators and a 9 member, all Democratic Congressional delegation. And, although we have a Republican Governor, he is the most liberal, anti-Trump Republican governor in the country and we have a Democratic legislature that can override (and has) his vetoes in each chamber.

Right now, the polling shows that Massachusetts has the second highest polling numbers against Trump, behind only our neighboring state, Vermont.

We message well here. I'd like to see it at the national level, also.

[Squinch]

37. Messaging is more than ads.

But yes, yes, I know. If I am going to say we need to be better at messaging, you are going to tell me again that I personally need to be the one to solve our messaging problem.

Because that makes so much sense.

[treestar]

38. Well if you are going to criticize it

and this particular criticique has been made for decades - maybe it is not so simple. Surely the people who are actually involved have considered all this? If we mere message board people think we can do it better, we have to get even more involved and get to those levels. Otherwise it is just complaining.

[Squinch]

45. Right. Because if I can't fix this national problem all by myself, then it just isn't fixable.

I think yours is the most nihilistic attitude I have come across in a long time. And frankly, it disrespects the ability of Democrats to solve problems.

[uponit7771]

16. We don't use Russian Bots as well

[NurseJackie]

18. Oh goody! Let's bash Democrats!

[shanny]

26. or wag fingers instead of actually addressing a deficiency

great plan

[NurseJackie]

40. Ha!

addressing a deficiency

Ha!

[tblue37]

19. K&R. nt

[crazycatlady]

20. We don't have a 24/7 'news' channel devoted to us

That is increasingly on in public places (I've changed the channel at a car repair shop) where you can't escape it.

One of the things that this unnamed channel teaches its' viewers is to not care about the next generation (hence the environmental destruction and defunding of education on the GOP's agenda).

This channel was also the first cable channel aimed at senior citizens (who vote in large numbers).

[oberliner]

22. Good points

Someone needs to make this argument more effectively. In simple, easy to understand terms.

[Squinch]

29. Yes. It is undeniable that we suck at messaging

But all you will get here as answers to that question are half the responses saying that we are too virtuous to do messaging and the other half accusing you of hating Democrats and being a troll.

Meanwhile, with nothing more than their talents at messaging, republicans are in the process of taking down my beloved country.

None so blind.

[beachbum bob]

30. there are millions of americans who see nothing from the taxcut, hopefully they all vote

in Nov 2018. Lots of tax payers that have no kids....and with a number of deductions eliminated, many will actually see their taxes go up
besides, the issue with many democrats is they believe that presenting actual facts and reasoned debate, the otherside is going to say oh ya, you are right.

THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, ever

One of issues democrats must focus on is freedom and use conservative tactics against them...

freedom for states to pass laws for individual rights whatever they may be
freedom from oppressive govt spying and intrusion into your personal life
freedom to express your self

[louis c]

32. The AD is not just aimed at people with children

but it is a message that we are stealing from the next generation.

I have no children or grand-children. I am willing to take on debt to educate, feed and try to make the next generation more secure.

I am unwilling to take on debt to decrease wealthy people's taxes, including my own.

[Binkie The Clown]

33. Because of the one, top priority, Democratic moral principle...

"Don't rock the boat."

Remember that above all, we are the "no drama" party.

[Hamlette]

47. nonsense. The one, top priority is "moral principle"

we believe in it, they don't.

[betsuni]

39. Running TV ads costs money.

Getting the message out costs money. I keep seeing that "status quo" means money in politics and that raising money from rich people who have a lot of it is bad, there should be a sort of tax on ordinary people to keep donating small amounts of money to politicians because otherwise the politicians will somehow be corrupted. Also too, Americans seem to be automatically cynical when it comes to liberal messages and gullible when it comes to Republican propaganda, maybe because they're so conditioned by advertising.

[kentuck]

41. What do you mean, "our side"?

The answer is in your question.

[louis c]

42. Think of it in military terms

Last edited Fri Feb 2, 2018, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm a foot soldier in the fight for Democrats and against right wing Republicans. I'm for equal rights for women, workers, LGBT community, minorities and immigrants.

But, I'm only a soldier. The Generals and Colonels are at the DNC, hold congressional seats or are paid spokes people. So, I'm way down the ranks, maybe a corporal in my analogy.

And just like any foot soldier in time of war, I don't mind questioning some of my superiors tactics with my fellow foot soldiers. After all, we're on the front lines doing the actual fighting.

I hope I answered your question.

[kentuck]

43. But "our side" is a divisive term.

It divides people into at least two camps. To frame it better would be to make it "inclusive". We are all in this together to make this a better country and a better world.

I'm just being the devil's advocate here. You make some excellent points.

[louis c]

44. Trumpism is the enemy of America

Trumpism, as I define it, is a xenophobic, homophobic, sexist, racist, anti-Semitic, anti-worker philosophy. Those positions are an opposite philosophy to what I was taught America stood for.

We are really part of a resistance. I contend that if the Democrats can't take control of at least the House of Representatives in this election cycle, we may never live in the America I have become accustomed to in my 65 years of life in this country.

Just as any patriot in any Democracy has to stand against the authoritarian impulses of any leader, that's where I feel we are, at this time, in this country.

Do you know why I'm afraid for my country. How often, including today, have we heard "unprecedented" "uncharted", "first time" "not normal" when describing the events surrounding this president* and his supporters.

I admire the Republicans that have stood up against Trump, Nicole Wallace, Michael Schmidt, Bill Kristol, Jeff Flake, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. There are many more. I can disagree with these folks on nearly every issue, but I don't question their patriotism and devotion to the norms that have evolved over the 242 years that we've been a country.

Don't kid yourself. The battle we're in is not a regular political argument. We're fighting for the very soul of this nation.

[lagomorph777]

46. It also comes from your retirement - next they will loot SS and Medicare.

[Yavin4]

48. Dems are terrible at messaging. Absolutely terrible.

The best counter message would be to push for a raise in the min. wage since corps got the biggest tax cut ever. Hate to say this, but this is due to congressional Dems being too old and too isolated in DC for too long. Also, doesn't help that one of their best messengers was forced to resign from the senate.