Penn State fans/alumni are having a HAL 9000-type psychotic break:

[PCIntern]

Since the computer was 100% flawlessly correct and was simultaneously told to lie to the two astronauts who were awake on the spacecraft, it suffered a break. The Penn State fans whom I treat in vast quantities here in Philly are having the same reactions: all their lives they have been programmed that a) Penn State football and Joe Paterno are the Zenith of the Universe (Why did God make the sky blue and white? They're Nittany Lion colors, that's why.), and b) that child molestation is almost the worst crime which can be committed. These things cannot co-exist in one brain, so...POOF!

You almost wouldn't believe some of the conversations which I've had over the past week. Weird stuff.

[joeybee12]

1. That's a good one about the sky...

I'd never heard that before.

[11 Bravo]

57. Actually, the sky is Carolina Blue. Go Tar Heels!

[ashling]

80. Actually, the sunset is bunt orange. Hook 'em Horns!

[Junkdrawer]

2. Grew up in central PA...Every Steelworker/Miner had two dreams for their boys::

1.) College Education ("It would break my heart to see YOU in the mills/mines.&quot ...

2.) Football (Competes only with Texas in terms of football being the center of all social life)

The Myth of Joe Pa was created to reconcile the two.

Best way to defeat Rep. Gov. Corbett: If you had done your job when you were DA, the memory of Saint Joe Pa would still be sacred world-wide.

[Fawke Em]

46. I'm not sure that PA only rivals Texas in football social life.

Here in Tennessee, it's pretty ingrained, too.

I mean, the Vols have sucked for the past few years, but the team still has a HUGE fan following.

We also have the second-largest college football stadium.

[Junkdrawer]

48. High School Football....

In HS, in order to be a FAN (member of the Pep Club), I had to go through an initiation that ultimately included walking 3 miles home, at midnight, covered in mud, honey, and mustard.

...

Authors explore role of high school football in state's culture

The first thing you should know is the first thing you see when you walk into the expansive exhibit on high school football's place in the life of Texas. It's a message penned by Joe Nick Patoski, curator of the exhibit at the Bob Bullock Texas State History Museum and a chronicler of the state's culture:

"Texas high school football is more than just a game."

Indeed, it's as much about the band, the cheerleaders, the mascots and the drill and dance teams — and all the relatives and friends of the participants — as it is about action on the field.

On Saturday, a series of speakers at the museum explored the past, present and future of a sport that, perhaps more than any other, is deeply woven into the state's social fabric. As the late James Michener wrote in his epic historical novel "Texas," nowhere is the passion for high school football greater than in the Lone Star State and the coal fields of Pennsylvania.

...


http://www.statesman.com/news/local/authors-explore-role-of-high-school-football-in-2024962.html

[jerseyjack]

3. You forgot to mention deer season.

Hunting, deer season and the Ag. fair. Not much else to look forward to. It is sad.

---Oh, edited to add, Sunday mornings.

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. +1

Was always amazed that the beginning of deer season was a day off school at State College Area High School. Or maybe that was just a myth...I don't know, but if it was a myth, it was a widely believed one in town. I actually used to live in the student apartments right behind the high school, so I'd see the kids in their camos and pick-ups in the supermarket parking lot in the morning. Quite a sight.

[CANDO]

49. Not a myth

Most schools in hunting areas are off for the first day of buck season, which is always the 1st Mon. after Thanksgiving. I don't know when it started, but it was that way when I was a kid. The school districts couldn't conduct classes when 3/4ths of their students were off sick with "buck fever".

[TwilightGardener]

41. Yes. Penn State, football, deer season. The holy trinity of rural and working class PA.

[MercutioATC]

5. The NCAA penalties WERE draconian.

They chose to take a criminal matter that had nothing to do with sports and kill both a college sports team that generates a lot of money for a college (which helps, to at least some degree, ALL students there) and an avenue to success for 20 prospective students per year.

As a disclaimer, I'm neither a fan of Penn State nor college football.

[lunatica]

6. I'm assuming this type of public punishment are also meant to send a message

to other institutions. And I also imagine a lot of College football coaches and high officials are getting the message loud and clear. The message being that they're not too big to fail or too popular to punish effectively.

There are a lot of people who are now very nervous.

[MercutioATC]

8. Maybe it's because I don't take sports as seriously as some.

I don't see how a sports governing body penalizing a college for a non-sports-related criminal matter makes any sense...especially when it harms college athletes, the people the organization is supposed to ultimately exist for.

[IdaBriggs]

40. It wasn't the crime. It was the cover-up.

The crime was heinous. The cover-up was despicable. The emails show the cover-up was "to protect the football program."

The punishment was aimed squarely at the crime. If it had been done to protect women's soccer, the women's soccer program would have been "punished" just as squarely.

The idea behind collegiate sports is to teach leadership, teamwork, and a whole host of other things that it may or may not do, but when it fails on such a colossal level - someone raping small children and the "leadership" turning a blind eye/continuing to enable the same behavior - you either hang up your "we're doing this for the values" hat, or you smack down hard on the offenders.

Cover up will aways cost. You might kill someone, but the fool who helps you hide the body goes to jail, too, because It Is Wrong.

[redqueen]

56. Very well said.

[DonRedwood]

58. The cover up made a one-person crime become the crime of all of them

I still think the guy who caught them in the shower is one of the worst of all of them. He saw it and knew it was still happening.

[ieoeja]

71. You missed something in all the reporting.

The guy who caught him in the showers made him stop right then and there, then went straight to their mutual boss, Paterno, and informed him of the incident.

[Raster]

88. please, correct me if wrong, however, "...The guy who caught him in the showers..."

did NOT "...made him stop right then and there..." He made noise, he slammed a locker, but he did NOT enter the shower and stop sandusky from sexually assaulting the 10-12 year old boy, nor did he call the police.

[ieoeja]

90. You are correct. That is exactly how he made him stop. Then he turned him into school admin. nt

[Raster]

92. Not to be the contrarian, however, it only made sandusky temporarily stop. After locker-slam guy...

...left and ran to his daddy to report, sandusky most likely went back to sodomizing the lad. Locker-slam guy did NOT wait around to make sure the kid was OK. Locker-slam guy nor his daddy went back to the showers to help the kid. Locker-slam guy and his daddy had to have a long father-to-son talk about the best course of action, which was to report what he saw up the Penn State football food chain. But make no mistake, NO ONE - daddy, locker-slam guy or Paterno: NO ONE - tried to find out if the kid that was being sexually assaulted was OK. NO ONE reported to the Police that THEY WITNESSED A CHILD BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED. NO ONE tried to help the child. No one.

[hifiguy]

60. Bingo.

Right on the money. PSU=Catholic Church. At least PSU is being held institutionally accountable.

[Ikonoklast]

9. College football is a business, period.

Best way to hurt a business is deprive them of revenue.

If students see that a football program can harm their ability to get an education at a school that puts athletics before everything else, they will take their business elsewhere.

Plenty of other universities in this country will take their money.

If I was running the NCAA, I would have removed the sanctioning from Penn State for football, period.

Kill one, warn a thousand.

[MercutioATC]

10. I don't see how the football program at Penn State is to blame.

One assistant coach committed a crime. His boss failed to report it to the police.

...and athletes at the college all suffer.

I think the NCAA should limit itself to actual sports-related matters, especially when it feels the need to make an example of somebody.

[joeybee12]

19. A man commits murder, goes to prison and his wife and children suffer...

Does that mean the man who committed murder should not be punished? Of course not. There are always innocent bystanders who get caught up when the right thing is done. The punishments were directed at the individuals involved and the institution. It happens and these measures were totally appropriate in this situation.

[MercutioATC]

22. But do we directly penalize the wife and kids?

Penn State's football program has definitely suffered collateral damage. Does it make sense to additionally penalize students for the criminal acts of a coach?

[joeybee12]

24. How are they directly penalized? It's not their money...

They haven't been indicted. The players have been given the option to transfer without penalty.

So their team isn't as good as it was...does it mean they're not getting an education?

[MercutioATC]

27. Reducing the number of scholarships by 20?

I'd also argue that past and present students lost value when the team's wins were deleted if I cared more about sports.

...by the way, how does cancelling wins have anything to do with molesting children?

[morningfog]

43. Paterno covered for and permitted it to happen.

Removing the wins, takes his name out of the record books. Good move. They were wise to make him disappear.

[ipfilter]

76. Paterno had the most wins in College Football

and vacating those wins dropped him way down the list. It's sort of a big deal to those who care. NCAA sanctions can get into bizarro land. Don't try to make any real sense of them. It's just the way it works in College Sports.

[joeglow3]

53. True, but you don't fine the town that he lived in because he lived there.

This is the fault of a handful of people. If all the people to blame are fired, criminally charged and banned for life from ever working in an NCAA college, how does anything else address the crime/issue? The fact is that it does not. The "punishment" serves to purpose other than to "send a message."

Now, that make still be valid, but your analogy is NOT addressing what is going on at Penn State.

[Posteritatis]

63. The coverup was specifically to protect the football program. Of course it's to blame. (nt)

[frylock]

65. you fail to see because you have no understanding..

joe paterno was the KING of PSU. he called the shots, period.

[barbtries]

11. i think it is appropriate and fair.

the rot in the culture runs so deep.

[marble falls]

12. I agree with you. How is pulling those millions in the 'fine' going to ......

a. help the abused.
b. help the students enrolled at Penn State.
c. stop abuse.

There are still people in the Penn State administration who helped hide these crimes, where are the sanctions directed towards them?

[MercutioATC]

13. Exactly, punish the offending individuals,

not the program where they happened to work.

What organization would have levied these sanctions if Sandusky was an English teacher?

[morningfog]

44. I think it is great. Send a message. Hit them where it hurts.

I wish the same thing could be done to the catholic church. Zero tolerance for covering up child rape.Good on the Big Ten and the NCAA!

[IdaBriggs]

42. The fine is going to help abused people.

The students at Penn State no longer have people enabling pedophiles or a culture that says *football* is more important than standing up and doing the right thing.

The abuse - well, the perpetrator is in jail, and the people who helped hide his crimes will also (hopefully) be prosecuted, too.

A public statement of "acceptable values = DON'T HIDE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN" by punishing those who did is acceptable to me.

[Alduin]

16. "Nothing to do with sports..."

Except that it did. It was the head coach of the football team who covered up for the crimes of the defensive coordinator.

The punishment wasn't strong enough. They should've enforced the death penalty. There was no excuse for the school, or Paterno, to cover up the sexual abuse. NONE.

[MercutioATC]

18. As far as the INDIVIDUALS concerned, I agree

However, Sandusky could have as easily been an English teacher. Would you support eviscerating Penn State's English program had he been?

This is a criminal issue. The NCAA should limit themselves to sports-related issues and leave crimes to law enforcement and the courts.

[Alduin]

21. The NCAA has no authority in academics.

They do, however, have authority in college sports so they have every right to enforce penalties on schools who don't hold up to the NCAA standards.

[Fumesucker]

23. It's also a huge ethical issue and the NCAA does get involved with ethics at least sometimes..

If Sandusky had been an English teacher he would have almost certainly been turned in, no multimillion dollar franchise to protect, no godlike status of the people involved..

There is zero doubt in my mind that the administration of the school would not remotely have gone to the lengths they did in this case to cover up the misdeeds of an English teacher..

[MercutioATC]

26. Neither you nor Alduin answered my question.

I agree that the NCAA has the right to act on SPORTS-RELATED issues. I also agree that the coverup wouldn't have been nearly as vehement had Sandusky been an English teacher.

I still don't see how penalizing college students is an appropriate penalty.

[Fumesucker]

28. Not penalizing the program would certainly send a message of approval to some..

I don't think the NCAA wants to be in the position of being seen as condoning child rape and a massive coverup of that rape..

And if they didn't penalize the program you know that exactly what a lot of people would be thinking, indeed I would join them in that perception..

[MercutioATC]

30. If this was for player steroid use or some form of cheating, I'd agree.

Sandusky's crimes were only an NCAA issue because he happened be employed by a college football program. We don't penalize employers for their employees' non-work-related crimes, why penalize the program for Sandusky's crimes?

[Fumesucker]

47. Because it was largely the program that enabled Sandusky's crimes..

Without being an exalted football coach he wouldn't have the Second Mile Foundation and access to a lot of kids.

A lot of this was the direct result of the worshipful attitude so many have to sports stars and those associated with them, like winning coaches for instance..

[joeglow3]

55. So, you think the English department should be eliminated in the aforementioned question?

[exboyfil]

62. Penn State football was not eliminated

I can give you a hypothetical that might apply in this case. Say this happened in a department which receives research dollars from the federal government (or even private research dollars). You might expect those dollars would be pulled if the chief researcher for the grant was shown to be colluding to cover up child rape (which is what happened). Entire research lines are shut down when academic dishonesty is discovered or professors are dismissed even for reasons not related to their research.

Henry Reid, the director of body donations at UCLA was arranging the illegal sale of body parts. No one in the upper administration covered up for him. He was convicted of the crime, and UCLA shut the program down for one year to rewrite procedures to allow more control of the situation. Is this close enough on point for your question. Granted it is small potatoes when compared to PSU football whose cover up started with the assistant coaches and went all the way to the President of the university.

The only thing I would change about the judgement would be to give an equal number of full ride scholarships (without the football benefits just vanilla scholarships) to academic All Americans who will not play football in college. That would cover up any argument that students are hurt by the scandal. These academically deserving individuals will get an opportunity for a Penn State education that they would not get otherwise.

[ieoeja]

75. In fact, had the university English dept done this, the university might well have been eliminated.

Think about that. Imagine discovering that an academic department of a state university had colluded to cover up such molestation by one of their professors. Worse yet, continued employing that professor with no apparent safeguards to stop the professor from continuing such actions.

I imagine there would be a howl to shut that university down.

Penn State is shielded by the fact that football is not a core purpose of the university.

[frylock]

69. sandusky's crimes were covered up by paterno and the athletic dept ffs!

ugghhh!!!

[frylock]

68. which students are being penalized?

it's already been explained to you that these kids are free to attend another university. the "death penalty" has not been imposed, meaning that the football program will continue. what is your beef?

[morningfog]

45. English teachers don't usually hang out in the locker room and

shower with boy recruits.

[frylock]

66. what part of these "individuals" representing the "institution" are you not getting?

[whopis01]

79. If his superiors in the English Department and college that it fell in helped cover it up, then yes.

What the NCAA has done is not directed at the actions of Sandusky. It is directed at the actions of the administration and hierarchy that helped cover it all up.

The NCAA is an organization. It has a right and duty to concern itself with the actions of its members.

Likewise, any members of an organization have a right and duty to concern themselves with the behavior of the organization.

If Penn State feels that the NCAA no longer serves it needs, it is free to withdraw from the NCAA. There is nothing keeping it a part of the NCAA.

[obamanut2012]

17. The Football and other PSU officials hid criminal behavior

They should have been punished by the NCAA. This is WORSE than breaking a couple recruitment rules.

The football program wasn't killed. It is possible to enjoy an athletic contest when the team isn't spectacular. The stadium will still be filled, tailgaters will still eat and drink, and students and alums will still think St. Joe was railroaded, even if video came out of him holding down a child while Sandsky raped him.

And, most importantly: classes will still be held and degrees given. That is what a university is actually for.

[MercutioATC]

20. Neither Paterno nor Sandusky are the Penn State football program.

The Penn State football program is comprised of a lot of kids trying to get ahead.

As I asked above, id Sandusky was an English teacher, would you support sanctions against the Penn State English department that harmed the students?

[Fumesucker]

29. That's a situation that just wouldn't occur..

There's no way the university would go to anything like the coverup lengths for an English professor..

We've already gone over this..

[obamanut2012]

54. I'm allergic to straw and other grasses

Please take down your strawman.

Thanks!!!

[frylock]

70. paterno was not only the football program, he was the most powerful MAN on campus!

you continue to show an absolute lack of knowledge in your argument.

[KamaAina]

77. How much money does the English department rake in?

[ieoeja]

78. Had an academic dept done this, the entire university should have been shuttered.

Football is ancillary to the purpose of the university. So I find the NCAA's punishment acceptable.

But had one of the academic departments colluded to coverup the professor's crimes and continued employing the professor with no apparent efforts to prevent it from happening again ... I think most people would be screaming to high heavens that the entire university should be shut down.

I like your analogy. It shows that Penn State is getting off lucky. The Penn State football program is getting off especially light. They could have easily accepted the fact that football is merely an extra-curicular activity that could have easily been entirely eliminated without damaging the university's core purpose and ability to carry out that purpose.

[Skidmore]

39. They needed to be. Do you think that all

sports programs are pristine? This should send a chilling message to others who tolerate criminal behavior within such programs.

[CANDO]

50. Draconian and very wrong.

Sends a message to society that its all right to make others pay for crimes of a few individuals. I understand the outrage against what happened. This is nothing but a power grab by the NCAA. And as far as the notion that all Penn State fans idolized and worshiped JoePa... I say bullshit. For at least as far back as the mid 90's, I and other fans wished Paterno would just be gone. Get out and retire for someone younger to take over.

[Dash87]

81. They're the ones that decided to not call the police, and just let little boys be raped.

Without saying anything, they basically said, "Too bad, little boys. We don't care about you, or the future victims. Go get raped, and then be a man and shut up about it. At least we're making money. That's all the matters."

They threw their own heads on the guillotine. I don't feel sorry for that football program. In fact, I hope it completely destructs. If you knowingly let kids get raped, and continue to help the abuser continue their abuse, you deserve only the worst of punishments.

[11 Bravo]

82. "If you knowingly let kids get raped" ... The PSU football players now being punished were ...

in elementary school when Sandusky was committing his crimes. They didn't "knowingly" do a fucking thing.

[Dash87]

83. It's the school being punished.

The school knowingly let those kids get raped. Appealing to the, "What about the PSU students?" is lame because it acts as if the punishment is being handed down to the students, and not the school itself. Of course, that's an easier position to defend, because then we're talking about messing with college kids' lives.

It's also totally irrelevant. It's a shame that PSU students have to suffer, but any punishment to the school would indirectly affect the students there - It's a college. The school needed a harsh punishment for what it did.

[11 Bravo]

84. "Appealing to the 'What about the PSU students' is lame because it acts as if the punishment ...

is being handed down to the students, and not the school itself."

This is then followed by, "It's a shame that PSU students have to suffer".

I have a headache.

[Dash87]

89. You missed the second part

"but any punishment to the school would indirectly affect the students there - It's a college."

The two don't conflict with each other. The first point talks about how the people against punishing PSU try to do a sneaky shift of the argument of punishing the school to punishing the students (which is not the aim of the punishments). This is done because it gives the anti-punishment crowd a more sympathetic cause, because after all, won't somebody please think of the students!?

The second concedes that punishing the school will affect the students at PSU, but that appealing to the PSU students as an argument is still lame because it's not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is how to punish the school itself.


Example of what I mean:

1: PSU should be punished and fined because they enabled a dangerous child predator

2: Why are you punishing PSU students? That's awful!


The second argument is out of scope with the first argument. It doesn't address the first argument's point at all. It first makes the false claim that PSU students are being "punished" by these sanctions, which carries the connotation that this is the aim of the punishments handed out to PSU. That is demonstrably false, as the punishments are aimed at punishing PSU, and not the student body. It also tries to bring in an irrelevant fact (students being hurt by the sanctions) to strength an argument against punishing PSU. It makes no sense.

[frylock]

86. the PSU players can fucking leave!

ffs, the football program is in tact! they can fucking play their fucking football. i'm supposed to get all worked because they won't be nationally ranked? are we to mourn the fact that they can't play in a fucking bowl game?!

[RainDog]

87. Hey, what's raping a few children compared to football?

yeah, it makes me want to vomit and then take names. whoever complains about this is a dirtbag, afaic.

[hifiguy]

91. Which is why the NCAA is letting them transfer out of the program

with no requirement that they not play for a year. Any PSU player is free to go wherever he wishes to play football.

Though why a kid who wants to transfer from College A to College B should be required to sit out for a year is a hell of a good question in itself.

[barbtries]

7. do share

i'm fascinated by the mindset that allowed the abuse to go on for so long and would allow the people of whom you speak to believe that they are the victims in this case.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. It went like this:

So what do you think of this Penn State scandal?

Hmph mumph mwo don't mumoh.

Oh really?

mowph miff mumble splat

You don't say. Here rinse

That's how it goes when I see the Dentist

[barbtries]

36. lol

thank you

[doohnibor]

14. Have them sing 'Daisy' as they go under.

I hope you have a good supply of replacement chips.

[obamanut2012]

15. I disgree with you about one thing

Why did God make the sky Carolina Blue? Because he's a Tarheels fan, that's why!

Sorry, old joke around here. Couldn't resist.

Are your patients blaming anyone? Mianly the NCAA? PSU Admin?

[Baitball Blogger]

25. We should pay close attention. This is what it looks like when you topple over someone's sacred cow.

What do you think is going to happen the day Republicans open their eyes and realize they have been living a lie?

Or more to the point, that WE know they're living a lie?

[PCIntern]

31. Implosion and supernova...

Possibly with fascism/martial law.

Could be...

[Baitball Blogger]

33. Hopefully they'll go out with a whimper and not a bang.

[hatrack]

32. Well, they need to get over it and GROW THE FUCK UP

There a few hundred million things out there more important than college football.

Not quite sure where institutional corruption covering up child rape for more than a decade ranks on that list, but am reasonably certain it's way, way above The Big Game and The Home Team.

[4th law of robotics]

34. Don't joke about this sort of thing

Logical paradoxes aren't funny to my . . . er people.

[lpbk2713]

37. I'm sure they hate asterisks now too.

The "winningest coach" will now be a footnote in history.

Such is life.

[PCIntern]

38. Yeah...tough shit. nt

[Initech]

51. It's completely mind boggling how many Paterno / Penn State fans are in denial.

Jerry Sandusky is now a convicted serial child molester. He abused kids and abused his position at Penn State to find more victims. And Paterno and the Penn State board of trustees looked the other way and allowed the abuse to continue. Fuck them all.

[pnwmom]

59. What sort of conversations? Any epiphanies?

Or are they mostly still clueless?

[1monster]

61. It takes time for people to understand that their heros are, after all, only

human, and that they can do or at least close their eyes to terrible things.

Give them some time to absorb the shock, digest the information, and to reconcile all that with their former beliefs. It's a bit like coming to realize that the religious beliefs which which one is indoctrinated as a child don't fit the reality you've come to know. It's scary country and creates confusion and fear. Eventually, it will come together for them, but it is a painful journey.

[Posteritatis]

64. Some of the responses in this thread certainly prove your point, don't they? (nt)

[LanternWaste]

67. That very disconnect appears even within this thread...

That same disconnect seems to appear even within this very thread...


Sigh. Double sigh.

[Avalux]

72. It's terrible. I've accepted reality though.

It's an inability to reconcile facts and rational thought with emotional attachment.

I am beyond sad that everything I thought I knew and all the fond memories I have of my childhood and college years are now destroyed. I have had to accept it and let it go. It's very, very difficult.

[JoePhilly]

74. I grew up in Philly, so I believe it.

My parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, not one went to college after high school.

But they were sure I was going. It was never even an option that I not go. From when I was 4 or so, I received multiple PSU tea-shirts and sweatshirts for Christmas and birthdays.

Looking back, I think they saw PSU as the working class person's bridge to the next rung on the economic ladder. I lived very close to Temple, U of P., and Drexel. My blue collar family followed the Big 5. If I could get into PSU, that would be the best thing I could hope for. After all, a blue collar kid isn't going to MIT or Harvard, you can't afford it.

As it turned out ... I was accepted to St Joe. In some ways, this was better than PSU. They thought it would be great of one of us made it to a State University ... I made it into a private university.

But looking back ... I think I get it ... for many, PSU was a path UP. And parents who went there, wanted to send their kids there too. The alumni network creates paths UP. So on.

And now they are learning that the place that saved many of them, the place that gave them a path UP ... destroyed others.

[RainDog]

85. great post

I think the cognitive dissonance hits especially hard because the football program and administrators at the University allowed someone to take advantage of disadvantaged kids.

That gets right to the heart of working class people's support for education to create a better life for their kids.