Attention Liberals & Independants

[JimGinPA]

From my FB feed...

[lindysalsagal]

1. Abso-effing-lutely.

UNITE!!!!!!!!!!

[Faux pas]

2. There have been

thugs running as libs, what about them?

[nini]

3. Thugs?

Please enlighten me on this one.

[quakerboy]

5. Mary Norwood

I'm assuming thats an example of what the poster meant, anyway.

[Faux pas]

6. Thugs,

as in rethugs , as in republican.

[OhNo-Really]

43. Utah does this.

[Hortensis]

56. Not as LIBERALS. Running as DEMOCRATS.

DOES NO ONE KNOW WHAT A LIBERAL IS?

This is DU for god's sake.

Liberalism is at the core of democratic republics, which DEPEND on setting aside differences and compromising to achieve common goals for the common good.

That's a huge part of why they're called liberal western democracies.

Why our Declaration of Independence speaks of freedom of religion instead of one, of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for all men and why our constitution was written to prevent tyranny of any majority.

Demanding "ideologic purity" is inimical to liberalism. Oil and water.

This is a good OP. We desperately need to clarify our terminology. It's being used against us devastatingly by enemies of all types.

Liberals are by far the largest portion of the party's huge, stable base. Almost as many for left-leaning independents.

When a large majority of liberals (members of almost every faction) are the stable, dependable base that very largely defines our purpose, that is absolutely the wrong term to use for the others this article is supposed to be speaking to.

[mcar]

72. This is one of the best posts I've seen in a long time

[Eliot Rosewater]

63. Does what, run moderate democrats against rightwing republicans? Lots of places do that.

If we dont elect moderates in those areas the republicans will win.

Do you know what happens when they win?

[DownriverDem]

51. Who?

The Dems are a diverse party. Some are more moderate than others. Some are more progressive and some are just right. Each state and district is different. With all that is going on, voting for the Dems is a no brainer. I have always voted for the Dems. All I have to do is look at what the parties stand for and the choice has always been easy for me.

[JimGinPA]

4. You'd Think They Couldn't Make It Through A Primary nt

[Different Drummer]

7. That'd never be seen on my FB feed, since I'm from redder-than-red Georgia. n/t

[TomSlick]

8. If a "Thug" gets through the primary, then yes, absolutely, get over it.

The most important vote any legislator makes is the vote to organize that house. I don't care who they are or how impure they have been in the past - vote for the Democrat.

It is vital s/he votes against Eddie Munster or the Turtle.

[Eliot Rosewater]

64. I truly think we need a "mandatory school night" where ALL Americans MUST tune in

via TV or the internet to a 3o minute LESSON on how our two party system works.

Wherein the party with the most seats decides everything including whether something is voted on or nor, so in this scenario a person with a BRAIN would vote for a democrat even if he was Satan himself.

[TomSlick]

76. A noble idea but the people who need to watch wouldn't.

That being said, I like the way you think.

[redstatebluegirl]

9. Amen!!!!

[bronxiteforever]

10. You rock! K & R

[Cha]

55. Yeah!

[hell674]

11. very first posting

I'm not exactly sure why I choose this thread to be the first one I post to. Maybe it was the "Attention Liberals and Independents". That grabbed my attention because it left out a whole bunch of folks. This next Tuesday, the 6th, DFL'ers across the state are going to choose candidates to run in races coming up in November. The DFL, by the way, is the Democratic party in Minnesota. It has a fascinating history that I won't go into here but, DFL stands for Democratic Farm Labor. Minnesota is generally considered a solid blue state and the candidates running for the DFL nomination for Governor represent that. My choice on Tuesday is going to be Erin Murphy who has next to no chance of getting the nomination but she represents to me, what Paul Wellstone called the democratic wing of the Democratic Party. I am a proud liberal. If, by some weirdness, Erin Murphy gets the nomination, there will be many DFL'ers who will feel she is too liberal for their liking. At that point, they will have some stuff to get over and unite behind the party. Vigorous and enthusiastic debate and discussion are good for the party. A range of viewpoints and opinion is good for the party. Telling liberals and independents to shut up and get in line, is not.

[JimGinPA]

12. This OP Pertains To Election Day (Mostly)

And supporting the campaigns of Dems chosen as candidates.

[Eliot Rosewater]

65. AT this point I say vote in the PRIMARY for the candidate MOST likely to win in that district

If for instance that asshole Manchin CAN win in WV but a liberal guy or gal cant then we want Manchin to win the primary.

I wish people understood that some districts will NEVER in our lifetimes anyway elect a liberal but they might elect a moderate.

[FakeNoose]

30. Welcome to DU

Enjoy your stay here!

There are several other regular posters on DU who are also DFL from your state. Good luck in your primary on Tuesday.

[hell674]

40. Thank you

I was raised by P9'ers and grew up with Humphrey, Mondale, McCarthy, and Wellstone. My commitment to the DFL goes down to my bones.

[progressoid]

31. Well said hell674

[Heartstrings]

35. Welcome to du hell674! nt

[KPN]

57. Great first post. Thanks much for

speaking up and pointing out what ought to be the obvious correct perception of "liberals" and even many if not most "independents." Much appreciated.

[kacekwl]

13. Although keep an eye out for repukes

running as democratic candidates. They are slippery pricks.

[groundloop]

18. We absolutely must be vigilant for that in the primaries.

By the time the general election rolls around we need to have a solid slate of candidates that we can get behind. As the OP said, even if the Democratic candidate doesn't agree with my point of view 100% of the time it's guaranteed that they'll be far closer to my liking than the repub candidate.

[Eliot Rosewater]

66. If they have a D after their name they give us the majority and power so their individual

politics means little compared to that.

[Thekaspervote]

14. Amen to that!!

[paleotn]

15. YES!!!

[Upthevibe]

21. Absolutely...

"Don't Let the Perfect Be the Enemy of the Good"

Voltaire: “The best is the enemy of the good.”
Confucius: "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without."

[lostnfound]

16. Attn DUers...I need a new home / online community

Politics has just made me bitter and depressed. As if the overwhelming horror of Trump wasn’t bad enough, there was a certain backstabbing incident that occurred in the last few months which I found deeply discouraging. We on the left are outgunned, outfunded and surrounded by millions of morons that are proof of the folly of democracy.

Suggestions of nice homes for former political junkies and disheartened patriots?

[sab390]

36. Here, here, here

This is the place. It is moderated, juried, and all get to speak. I'm former SDS, weatherman, you know, old school. Now center left, OK, still left of that, but the whole point here is to unite against the crooks. We would welcome Eisenhower or Concord republicans fleeing these horrible humuclus. Please stay and say.

[Fla Dem]

77. I dont understand. Youre a long term member of DU w/11,000 +posts.

Are you saying you’re no longer happy here at DU? If the backstabbing incident was here, I’m sorry about that. You could have alerted. In any event, don’t let one unpleasant incident turn you away. As you well know there are way more dedicated, fervent liberal Democrats here on DU, than the occasional idiot.

[BlueAZure]

17. No, no, no, no, NO!

I have seen this sentiment multiple times both here and elsewhere, and I think it is due to a gross misunderstanding of what happened in the last election.

Wrapped up in this narrative, sometimes implied and sometimes expressly stated, is the notion that it was the “purists” who wouldn’t support Clinton and who threw the election to Trump. The conclusion seems to invariably be that Bernie supporters just wouldn’t vote for Clinton so they either stayed home, voted for Stein, or worst of all, voted for Trump.

The core of the argument against these folks is that it is their fault that Trump got elected and next time, they’d better get on board with the Dem, or we’re going to have more Trump.

If this is going to be our message, our campaign slogan might as well be:

“Vote for us because we suck less than the other jerks”

That’ll play well on a T-shirt or bumper sticker.

Much has been made by some of the “Bernie to Trump” voter. I happen to know exactly one of these people personally. It took me quite a while to wrap my head around the idea that anyone would choose Bernie Sanders first and Donald Trump second. When quizzed, he responded with “we need a change” and “I just don’t trust her (Clinton)”. Well, that initially made it even harder to understand, but after some time I came to see that on the one hand, he was snowed by all the anti-Clinton BS that the right has been dishing out for 25 years or so, and on the other, really is looking for something that’s not “business as usual”.

Additionally, this guy is an ex-Marine and pretty much a “fiscal conservative” who is “libertarian” on social issues. He couldn’t care less about gay marriage, is a moderate on immigration, and I’ve never heard him say a word about abortion. Had this been any typical election, had the Democratic candidate not been Hillary or Bernie, and regardless of who was the Republican candidate, he would likely have voted straight Republican all the way. Yet he voted for Bernie in the primary, and Trump in the General.

Why then, did he vote the way he did?

Because this election, just like 2008 when Obama was first elected, was a Change Election. Obama promised change. He ran on Hope and Change. Big, meaningful change. Yet what we got was moderate change at most. The ACA was probably the biggest change, and in 2010/12, Dems ran FROM it rather than ON it.

Now we’re getting change, all right, but not what we wanted and I’ll wager that, once the change really starts to kick in, not what most Trump supporters want either.

I don’t personally know anyone who considers themselves a Dem or “left of center” but didn’t get out and vote for Clinton, even if she wasn’t their first choice. (I used to know a few Greens, but lost track of all of them the last time I moved, about a dozen years ago.)

Those of us complaining about how the “purists” need to “get on board with the less than perfect candidate”, but this is looking at the problem all wrong. We’re not going to win elections by being the party of “more of the same”, “moderate, gradual” change, or, worst of all, “Republican Light”.
Berating those who aren’t on board, for whatever reason, WILL NOT WORK.

If we want to win, we have to stop this crap about how the “liberal wing needs to get on board”, and start finding ways of attracting those who aren’t already on board now.

Since 1980, the middle and working classes have gotten the short end of virtually all of the change, and here’s where Trump is right:

We (the United States) have made plenty of bad deals that have screwed over most of the population.

Now, we (Democrats) have to present something better than “A Better Deal”, and sure as hell better than “We suck less than them”.

[leftstreet]

19. It's too big to fit on a bumper sticker

Vote for us because we suck less than the other jerks

Very thoughtful post. Thanks for taking the time to put it together

Welcome to DU

[Alpeduez21]

23. Your 'friend' sounds like a real stable genius.

Me I'll vote for the candidate who is not a lying homophobic misogynistic racist tax cheating Russia mafia money laundering rapist asshole. Everytime. Maybe that's just me, though.

[Eliot Rosewater]

67. So you dont support Democrats no matter what?

[OhNo-Really]

44. Let's see

Free Higher Education - Vote Dem

or

Tired of being scared? Vote Dem

or

DEM not THEM

[brooklynite]

73. You haven't bothered to answer the question.

However you WANT candidates to act, what will you do if they don't meet your exacting standards?

[lapucelle]

74. The message in the OP is that elections have consequences.

How that morphed into "Vote for us because we suck less than the other jerks” is frankly bewildering.

[lapucelle]

75. And if anyone is looking for something deeper than a slogan,

I recommend that he or she read the 2016 Democratic party platform.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

[StuckInTexas]

79. Post of the thread

There are swing voters out there who are ready for a change. A moderate swing to the left, and more importantly, the spine and willpower to back it up and fight for what we believe in, would result in a blue tsunami. We really are our own worst enemies when it comes to messaging.

[lapucelle]

82. Anyone who needs to know where Democrats stand

should read the 2016 platform. The policies represent a vision for a more just and equitable system, not a system that "sucks less".

Swing voters / independents waver more between Democratic and Republican positions, rather than Democratic and far left positions.

We don't "suck at messaging" as much as the media sucks at actually covering our message.

Anyone who voted third party or who stayed home in 2016 because they weren't courted and wooed sufficiently owns the mess we're in now and any changes in law promulgated by the Trump courts and judges. There will be no absolution for entitled idiots.

[Jamaal510]

83. +1

[Hortensis]

81. BlueAzure, the excuse is wanting CHANGE?

Why the hell didn't your friend manage to understand that electing two strong progressives to the presidency, both of whom were determined to reverse the course of the past 35 years, one of whom was our first black president, and the other was to be our first woman president, PROMISED HUGE CHANGE. He let himself be suckered bad, and no doubt also suckered himself badly.

It's not that he couldn't have seen if he'd opened his eyes. For 4 years Hillary showed herself to be a very different kind of SecState from all the men before, working for progressive change around the planet, admittedly especially to advance rights and wellbeing of women and children in a hundred nations, instead of trying to build the usual peace in the middle east legacy for herself. Was it that focus that caused her intensely progressive, people-oriented agenda to be so casually dismissed? The usual dismissal of "just women"? How did he not realize what earth-shaking change that was? To invest in raising the status and self sufficiency of the women who were raising the next generation around the planet?

And that's only ONE aspect of how Hillary was the coming change people wanted and threw away.

People who still can't get their minds around the simple but huge reality that voting for her would have meant voting for a big change in how things are usually done are still ready tools for propagandists. Your friend was not just a fool but a big, blind fool.

[leftstreet]

20. That's actually a confusing graphic

If it's assumed to be a message from Democrats, the "attention liberals..." would indicate Democrats don't see themselves as Liberals

Confusing

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. So weird to realize that applies directly to me now.

Went from the 2018 Women's march not even thinking about running for office to being a filed candidate for state rep a week and a half later. Went door knocking today for the first time in my nascent political career. I hope the Dems in my area get this. I can't possibly be all things to every person. I can only be myself who cares deeply and wants Democrats to have a voice and a choice.

[Ligyron]

24. You're going to do great!

Never doubt it and don't be afraid to ask for help.

[hell674]

25. Best of luck

The key for the Democratic Party's success is not just increasing participation but listening to the new participant's input. There is an entire generation of folks out there, staring at retirement with nothing, available. Convince them and you will win.

[lkinwi]

26. Good luck to you!

You are right, you can’t be all things to every person.

[OhNo-Really]

45. Proud of you. Hope you win

[GaryCnf]

27. You must mean

Like Rob Quist, huh?

[jimlup]

29. Just an observation

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I do have some insight into this issue as my ex is one of these folks. I think part of it is that they don't like being told what they have to do. For this reason, telling them that they "have" to vote for the democratic compromise candidate rubs them the wrong way. Sometimes, that rub is enough to move them to vote absurdly. I've seen my ex-wife do this many times.

I don't agree with that position mind you. I'm just trying to brainstorm a better solution. Telling them they have to vote a certain way unfortunately doesn't actually work. With my ex it is mostly specific issue kind of thing. The best chance is to reach her on a specific issue she cares about that the democratic candidate shares. That has a chance.

[FakeNoose]

32. There were many Republicans in the same boat last time

They hated Trump, but they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary either. I think it had to do with emails, or maybe it was Benghazi.

[jimlup]

33. Yeah I don't know how these people get so carried away with their stupid

made up shit. But the propaganda against Hillary that had been ongoing for years did the trick. Problem is that the Repukes don't have a good target to attack for 2020. Plus most sane people realize that Trump is a national embarrassment.

[progressoid]

34. Yeah, because chiding people is a such a great strategy for winning their votes.

[JimGinPA]

37. Chiding?

If you can't support Democrats because of lack of excitement or purity this is the government you end up with.

[progressoid]

39. I said nothing about lack of excitement of purity.

That nifty blue meme says "get over that shit and unite". How often has that approach worked?

Do you want to attract the disillusioned millennials to the party? Do you want people to donate to the "dead broke" DNC? Do you want people to volunteer to knock on doors and phone bank? Do you want to try to get back the blue collar voter? Do you want a unified front? Then, blaming "liberals" & "independents" is not the way to go.

[KPN]

59. Exactly. I have three millennial children

whom I know would all validate your point. Fortunately, they live in a strongly blue Dtate so the 2 of the 3 who chose not to vote in 2016 had no effect. That's not the case in swing States however.

[KPN]

58. +1!

It gets tiring listening to this same old horse crap stated over and over again in so many different ways. A broken message on a broken record: "vote for us or else" like people are inspired by that.

[Iggo]

38. Unrec.

Already trying to divide us.

[mvd]

41. Well remember that also should apply for more "moderate" Dems when..

There is someone very progressive on the ballot. And I can always support who I want in the primary.

[D23MIURG23]

42. Perfection is the enemy of progress. n/t

[SunSeeker]

46. K & R

[Honeycombe8]

47. GOTV. Resist. Vote AGAINST fascism. nt

[FakeNoose]

68. I believe every Democrat has no problem with that

We're all against fascism, right?

We may have different opinions on other stuff, but certain things we do agree on. If a Dem. candidate can key in on those things that unite us, then he or she deserves our support. We're in a very tight race and we're running out of time. If we don't get it done this year, there may not be another chance.

Please understand that we have an opportunity this November to convince many GOP members to vote blue, if we can get moderate candidates on the slate. There is at least some disaffection and they're starting to see the cracks in their party, maybe they can be convinced to switch this year. Our candidates should be people who can reach across party lines and unify all Americans. It won't be easy!

[burnbaby]

48. the reason

we call ourselves independents is because we vote for who we want to. We vote for who we believe will be the best person for our country. Need I say more?

[JimGinPA]

52. Maybe You Should Post At The Independent Underground

Since there's no such animal as a "moderate republican" any more I have no patience for "independents". If you can't support Democrats you're part of the problem.

[burnbaby]

53. independents typically support

the best person for the job, by reading your post are you insinuated that the democrats are weak? Why the anger? I voted dems across the board but this past election not because of their party because they were the best person for the job.

[FakeNoose]

69. I was an independent for many years

Actually for most of my life because I grew up in the midwest in a proudly Republican-voting family. I thought Eisenhower was a pretty good president and I believed for quite some time that eventually there might be a Republican candidate that I'd want to vote for. But you know what? There never was one that I ever voted for, ever. Since I became old enough to vote in 1972 I've never voted for a Republican for President, and I don't believe I ever voted for a GOP senator or representative. (I did vote for Nelson Rockefeller for NY Governor and I probably would have voted for him for President if he'd had the chance to run.)

OK so my point is, I finally joined the Democratic Party in 2008 when I realized that I'll probably never vote Republican, ever in my lifetime. But I really wanted to support Hillary in the primary, and I could only do that if I became a party member. Being independent (not affiliated with either party) doesn't change how you vote, and it doesn't change how your vote counts. You can be a registered Democrat and still vote for Trump, if that's who you want to vote for. But being independent does mean that you can't vote in the primary to select the best candidates for each office, in most states.

When I came to that realization it was a no-brainer for me, and I joined the Democratic Party without a qualm.

[calimary]

49. THANK YOU!!!!!!

ENOUGH with the “MUST be immaculately perfect” stuff.

There is no “perfect.” Nowhere in humankind. Why is that so difficult to accept? I can think of countless people of both genders who are still looking for “perfect.” And they will never find it. Because it just isn’t there.

I’m always reminded of that Lee Remick line in the movie “The Competition.” It was a film awhile back, also starring the then-young Richard Dreyfuss and Amy Irving as competitors in an international piano competition. Lee Remick played Amy Irving’s piano teacher/mentor. Spoiler alert: Irving and Dreyfuss fall in love. Irving then beats presumed favorite Dreyfuss in the competition. Angst ensues about whether their love affair is now ruined, and at the victory party, winner Irving mopes all alone in a side room. Remick enters the room to snap her out of it, telling her prize student: “it’s going to take another 100 years for Nature to evolve the kind of man you have in mind. So get out there and dance with what there IS!”

[radical noodle]

78. I love this story, calimary!

Thanks for sharing it.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good because there is no perfect.

[DownriverDem]

50. 100% Correct

I've been saying it all through the 2016 campaign and election. I pointed out how bad it would be if trump got elected. It's actually worse than I thought. If left leaners don't get it now, they never will. We have a chance to slow down trump and the repubs by voting for the Dems next November. If that isn't good enough for you, I question who you truly are.

[Merlot]

54. Lectures, threats, and admonishments rarely provide the desired outcome.

[ffr]

60. This should be added to the DU header. I'm not kidding.

Either unite or fall.

[samnsara]

61. AMEN

[Eliot Rosewater]

62. That it needs to be said AT ALL

but thanks for doing it

[treestar]

70. Kick

Get the Republicans out!

[mcar]

71. Bookmarking this

Thanks Jim!

[BlueDog22]

80. Agreed

I agree, and this is the only way that a fifty state strategy will work.