General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe recession has begun
I have nothing to validate that statement but my gut and the last two days of stock market.
This will be all trump!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)My guess.
maryellen99
(3,785 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,077 posts)Most people know that stock markets are generally prices of what stuff is worth in the future. That's why PEs are so important, etc.
Blaming someone else will be viewed as idiotic and of course, not true. Most people will see through this immediately.
BlueDog22
(366 posts)This may have just been a correction. We will know more when more data presents itself. If it keeps falling like this throughout the week, then I would suspect a contraction in the investment markets. Some consumers may also reduce their spending.
That said the stock market is not the economy.
AJT
(5,240 posts)BootinUp
(47,091 posts)but its worth monitoring closely.
I agree.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)linuxman
(2,337 posts)liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)linuxman
(2,337 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,569 posts)If it does turn out to be more than a correction the silver lining is that the deplorables' God like devotion to their Fuhrer may make them a little more nervous.
doc03
(35,300 posts)already running a $1 trillion deficit? If unemployment would go up the deficit would explode. We would be in deep do do.
kurtcagle
(1,602 posts)The DOW has lost 25% of what it picked up since the election, and the problems now are that these moves are so big that they are forcing a lot of investors to unwind their positions elsewhere just to stay solvent.
1. We're in the second longest bull market in history (second only to Bill Clinton's), and well over the average of about 7.8 years between recessions.
2. As of this year, more boomers are drawing from the market than contributing to it.
3. Brick and Mortar Retail is collapsing everywhere, which is placing huge stress on the commercial real estate market. Online is one contributing factor, but a bigger one is demographic - a lopsided demographic where there are comparatively few new families (who spend heavily on houses, furnishing, clothing, cars and so forth) but lots of seniors who are literally swimming in redundant goods and have fixed incomes.
4. That CRE bust is in turn making a lot of bond issues worthless, and there's a huge amount of CRE debt that is now needing to be refinanced before it goes bad, which is pressuring interest rates higher.
5. The tech innovation wave has mostly played itself out and the sector has been quietly contracting for a while now. I'm in tech (information architecture), and have noticed that you're seeing fewer new projects now than at any time since about 2014. There's a lot of zombie positions out there that tend to inflate the picture of demand, but outside of a few regional areas, my sense is that tech is going to get ... interesting ... in the next six months.
6. The recent extreme volatility with bitcoin should be seen for what it is - investors who can't get decent returns in most sectors and so have been piling into high risk, low oversight positions in exotic financial instruments.
7. The tax package the GOP just passed is also hitting the bond market hard, precisely at the time when it's most vulnerable. Bond yield curves have been inverting left and right.
The stock market does not cause a recession, but a stock market crash is usually an indication that a bad recession is on the horizon. Crashes also tend to cycle between residential bond markets (housing) and commercial bond markets. It's eighteen years since we had a CRE market crash.
It's possible this is just a one off, but this wasn't due to a single glitch (the Flash Crash of 2015) or even contagion from a single event (the 2000 crash was directly attributable to the East Asian collapse of 1998 and the flattening and bailout of LTCM's investors). There was a huge build-up in the stock market based primarily upon the expectations of a strong pro-business government coming into power, but there's nothing really sustaining it other than hype. This means that the market is now reverting to fundamentals, which translates into we're in for a roller-coaster ride now for the next several months, anyway, and the resulting damage as investors and businesses become fearful will make a recession a self-fulfilling prophecy.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)uponit7771
(90,304 posts)... this year so issue bonds and big money moves to bonds vs stocks