Does a moderate/centrist have any chance of winning the Democratic nomination in 2020??

[Sharpshooter007]

So as we know over the past 18 months or so, the democrats have increasingly adopted Bernie's platform and moved further to the left, and moving on from the traditional Clinton/Obama center left model which has been at the foundation of parties success over the past 30 years.

Many of the rumored contenders planning to run in 2020 have also made significant moves to the left in recent months, including Cory Booker, Kirsten Gillibrand, Kamala Harris all of which are now supporting Bernie's Medicare-for-all single payer plan. Today Kirsten Gillibrand following on from Joe Biden, has now said she will not take any Corporate Super-PAC money and plans to fight to get money out of politics.

Now I supported Bernie over the Hillary in the primaries so I'm glad these are becoming mainstream positions in the democratic party. These are the policies that the likes of Cenk Uygur, Thom Hartmann, Kyle Kulinski, Justice Democrats, have been advocating for ages.

But lets not forget there are still some ideological differences between the baby boomer voters of the party (who most backed Clinton) and the millennials (who mostly backed Bernie). Looking back the results for the 2016 primaries we get:

Clinton - 16,914,722 (55.2%)
Sanders - 13,206,428 (43.1%)

That's still a significant Clinton victory, and although there does to seem to be this big rush for every potential 2020 candidate to run as BernieV2.0 at the moment, there's an awful lot of 'moderate' voters who might not be as fussed with that brand of politics.

I used to think a 'moderate/centrist' from the Bill Clinton/Obama wing stood absolutely no chance of getting the democratic nomination in 2020 any longer following Hillary's debacle and assumed that wing had ran its course, but with so many candidates seemingly embracing Bernie's platform (which IMO is good thing) trying to 'out Bernie' Bernie himself it might leave someone who's not willing to embrace his wing of the party to sweep up a big chunk of the older/non-millennial vote.

[LexVegas]

1. " the democrats have increasingly adopted Bernie's platform"

[NCTraveler]

3. Love how they do this.

There are numerous lies in the op that cannot be addressed without rehashing the primaries. Pretty shady.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

52. MSE!!!

[ehrnst]

76. Yes, it was never progressive before...

[NCTraveler]

2. This should be locked.

It rehashes the primaries and any appropriate response, pointing out the blatant lie's, would have to include a rehash of the primaries.

[Weed Man]

4. Moderate/centrist? No.

Progressive? Yes.

Bernie will be the One in 2020.

[LexVegas]

5. "Bernie will be the One in 2020. "

[LonePirate]

8. If our party wants to win in 2020, we better hope Sanders is NOT our nominee.

[Weed Man]

9. Bernie is the One.

If you don't like it, tough.

He is the true progressive that has been denied his nomination thanks to us being foisted the candidate who easily lost to Trump via Electoral College.

Bernie can secure the Electoral College victory very easily that the American people know who he is, and what he stands for.

Ageism? Buzz off - Bernie's older brother, Larry, is strong physically and mentally, so I have no doubt that Bernie can serve the entire two terms if he chooses to do so.

I have to post this famous quote



I would heed Einstein's advice.

[LonePirate]

10. Age has nothing to do with it. His lack of appeal for the partys minority base is disqualifying.

He has almost no appeal to large numbers of minority voters, who comprise the majority of the party’s voters across the south and southwest. Bernie will not be the Dem nominee in 2020 whether you like it or not.

[Weed Man]

11. Uh-huh...

Bernie Sanders calls Trump budget the Koch brothers budget

BY LUIS SANCHEZ – 02/13/18 11:06 AM EST



Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) called President Trump’s budget the budget of the Koch brothers and the billionaire class at a Senate Budget Committee hearing Tuesday morning.

“This budget is the budget of the Koch brothers, it is the budget of the billionaire class, and the American people understand it,” Sanders, the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, said, referring to the billionaire conservative donors Charles and David Koch.

President Trump released his $4.4 trillion federal budget proposal on Monday. It includes large increases in military spending and heavy cuts to domestic programs. The proposal would also add $984 billion to the federal deficit next year.
“You don’t help working people when your budget would eliminate financial aid to hundreds of thousands of low-income college students,” Sanders said on Tuesday. ….



Read more:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/373591-bernie-sanders-calls-trump-budget-the-koch-brothers-budget

---

This is just an example of how good Bernie is in policy positions.

Don't like it? Tough. This is what a REAL/TRUE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT SHOULD LOOK LIKE!

[Squinch]

30. Oh, look. He said something. Now we must all fall at his feet. Otherwise we're not pure enough.

We've all really had enough of that "or you're not a real Democrat" divisive bullshit, thanks.

At least this time he's not trashing Democrats.

[ehrnst]

85. Positions and sound bytes are one thing. Actual legislative accomplishment, and ability to

work with other elected progressives towards change is another.

Don't like it? Tough. This is what a REAL/TRUE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT SHOULD ACCOMPLISH!

That's what we had with Hillary.

[NCTraveler]

15. "Bernie is the One."

Sound like a religious movement to me.

Is this the two?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210074071

[Wwcd]

36. The One What?

Haaahaaaa..Still waiting for a real answer from The One as to:
NO on Magnitsky
NO on Amber Alert
YES to toxic pollutant dumping re: Sierra Blanca
Taxes promised ..zip
FEC explanation promised re: $10 mill ..nada
HRC's Stolen Voter Data ..Dead silence

Much more..ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

The One what?

[NCTraveler]

41. Don't forget No with respect to a pathway to citizenship. nt.

[Wwcd]

48. That is a big fking deal. No explanation on that one either.

The true Progressive Paul Wellstone took Sanders to task on Sierra Blanca.

Btw..the short version tax form the Sanders' eventually did turn in to the FEC showed the Sanders' still receiving payments for the toxic dumping in Texas.
Jane sat on the toxic dump board..thus $$

[Me.]

51. What Toxic Dumping

Did I know this...don't think so. Did they get paid to do this?

[Wwcd]

53. Sierra Blanca Tx. Dirt poor sw community. VT toxic nuke waste needed a place

..to send it & GW Bush' millionare friend offered the space. Bernie sponsored a bill to allow the dumping, Jane sat on the VT Board of Waste and Progressive Sen Paul Wellstone argued against Sanders.
The dump site was later moved from Sierra Blanca, thanks to Progressive Sen Paul Wellstone who was the lone voice speaking for the poorest Latino tx community.
The site was moved to another dump site owned by GW's millionare investor business friend.

Google has the story.

I'll stop here since its a whole separate Thread & a can of nasty that just is what it is.

It was a big fight between Independent Sen Sanders' push to get his bill thru & Progressive Sen Wellstone's push-back for the Sierra Blanca Community.

However, the Sanders' still receive payment for Bernie's decision to pass a bill in favor of the VT Toxic Board where Jane was a member.

The site was relocated to another area of sw Texas, & VT sent their nuke by product.

Thank you Sen Wellstone.
That is what a Progressive does.

[Me.]

55. Wow

Thank you. I'll look up why they are paid.

[ehrnst]

82. Google "Paul Wellstone" and "environmental racism"

Paul called the legislation that was fast tracked to develop it that.

As of 2014, Jane Sanders was on the board, and the Sanders were profiting from it.

[Me.]

95. I Did Check It Out

and think she's one lucky lady. As of 4/16 she was still getting a paycheck for that board position and then the college she did in gives her a severance of $200,000.

[emulatorloo]

80. But but but his shitty votes are ok because reasons

[Codeine]

37. He is the Kwisatz Haderach.

He who controls the Bernie controls the Universe.

[LexVegas]

16. "thanks to us being foisted the candidate who easily lost to Trump via Electoral College"

Transparent.

[MrsCoffee]

18. I agree about Einstein's advice.

It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with the resentment that is built up toward someone who distances himself from and attacks the party he wishes to lead until it's convenient and beneficial for him to do otherwise. There is way too much water under that bridge for it to ever be crossed again in my opinion. Fool us once and all that.

[GulfCoast66]

21. He could not win the primary when he was the shining new face.

And Nationalism has reached its peak in the US.

See how well arguing against NAFTA and other trade policies go over after watching Trump attack them for 3 years.

And if the Republican machine ever has to crank up on him he will be crushed.

Too many people live their lives in ideological bubbles. Americans will not elect a self identified Socialist as President.

[mythology]

28. Wait, losing the nomination because more people voted for Clinton

Means he was "denied"? He lost because in 2016 substantially more people voted for Clinton in the primaries.

[brooklynite]

47. I take it "has been denied his nomination" translates to "got fewer votes"?

[Cha]

66. If you don't like it Tough.. he

will not be our candidate.. he's too divisive.

[Sharpshooter007]

67. But someone with his policies might though.

That's why I've been pointing out Gillibrand, Harris, Booker all supporting Medicare for all and now some are supporting campaign finance reform is a significant development.

[ehrnst]

81. You mean like Hillary? (nt)

[Eliot Rosewater]

70. Nah, he isnt.

[George II]

75. Why are you still fighting the 2016 Primaries and General Election? Sanders can't....

...."secure the Electoral College" if he's not on the ballot.

But you're correct in saying this about Sanders......"the American people know who he is, and what he stands for." Proven time and again.

[ehrnst]

79. He's not a Democrat, so why would he be "the one?"

Did Bernie's older brother have melanoma?

There's that.

Would running again after losing substantially fit the definition of "doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome?"

Until Bernie has been vetted, we have no idea how he would do in a general. Hillary was one of the most vetted candidates in history, and as such was a bigger target for smears and lies. So, there's that.

In any case, he'll need decide to be transparent with his finances if he wants to jump on board the Democratic wagon again, because it has been a basic ethical action for any Democratic candidate in a few generations, and part of the vetting process, so there's that.

The best predictor of a Dem POTUS candidate is their communication with and appeal to black women.

So there's that.

[ehrnst]

87. Who "denied" Sanders the nomination? Who "foisted" Hillary on anyone?

Care to clarify that?

[tonyt53]

92. Get used to losing if he is the nominee. Going to take a Democrat to win the nomination.

Lifelong Democrats that didn't vote for Sanders on '16. Moderate whites. Minorities that he has never connected with. The Democratic Party wants to win, the voters will back a moderate. You forget who received more votes in the '16 primary. And you can also forget that nonsense that we voted against Sanders because the DNC was against Sanders. We voted against him because we didn't like him. Yeah, I'm a moderate, but have never voted for a Republican.

[Demsrule86]

20. No, Sen. Sanders will not be the one...his ages makes it impossible. I hope he doesn't run.

Also, his wife has the college thing...we need a new fresh candidate. He won't win a primary in 20, and I fear a repeat of 2016.

[tazkcmo]

31. No he won't.

And I've been a supporter of his for a long time. He's just fine where he is. He can do more to advance progressive goals like single payer and bottom up economic policies as a Senator. Not saying he shouldn't try but unless he runs against a wet towel, he'll lose.

[BannonsLiver]

32. I bet he's not.

[Codeine]

35. Entirely too much weed, man. nt

[Wwcd]

54. I thought he was a independent, democrat, democratic socialist, progressive socialist, progressive,

socialist, independent socialist, independent democratic socialist progressive workers party ....

What is he exactly.

"Can never be all things to all people."

[GulfCoast66]

72. I know what he is not...

A member of the Democratic Party.

[Wwcd]

96. Precisely. "Money & Media" & thanks for the lift Dems, see ya!

*

[ornotna]

60. I supported Bernie in the primary

And happily voted for Hillary in the General.

Sorry no, Bernie is not the one. He said some great things and he gave it a good shot but it's time to move on. Bernie won't even be a second thought in 2020.

[ehrnst]

77. What about a Democrat?

And someone who releases their financial records.

That would be the best option for 2020.

[zipplewrath]

6. Hard discussion to have

Your point of view rests upon a certain set of positions that aren't universally held around here.

1) Clintons/Obama was "center left".
2) That position was particularly "successful" for democrats
3) The party has been adopting Bernie's platform
4) We know how candidates will even run in a Trump re-election year.

All of those are open for debate around here and so trying to leap to what kind of candidate will be successful in the 2020 primary is going to be hard to discuss without some resolution of these assumptions.

[Wwcd]

44. Bernie never had a platform. (#3)

Nope not from day one.

[Docreed2003]

7. ...

[msongs]

13. from the DU mission statement: "Helping elect more Democrats to political office ..." nt

[pnwmom]

14. Well, I HOPE that whoever wins is not representing the Cenk Ugur wing of the party.

If that's what you mean by "progressive."

Give me a "moderate" from the Pelosi wing over a "progressive" from the Cenk Ugur wing any day.

[Demsrule86]

22. Cent Ugur takes money from the GOP so I agree with you...he is not a Democrat...and those that

follow him are probably Steinbots.

[GulfCoast66]

24. Well said.

Using that SOB to support your argument here is spurious at best.

[Wwcd]

42. Cenk is RU propaganda hack.

Just fyi..

[ehrnst]

78. At least someone who will release their financial information....

[alarimer]

17. Nope. They have no chance at beating Trump.

No mushy middle, milquetoast Dems, thank you.

Progressives have been winning the local elections. Centrists generally have not done well (see Ossoff, who was about as mushy middle as you could get). The exception is Doug Jones who only one because Roy Moore was horrible.

While it may seem that any Democrat has a shot a beating Trump, just by not being Trump, I think they need to be more than that. They just can't be the anti-Trump, if only to drive turnout higher.

Turnout in 2020 depends on having a dynamic, engaging candidate who tells the truth aggressively about Trump as well as Republican policies. And emphasizing true, progressive policies in contrast to regressive Republicans is an absolute must. They cannot and should not talk about Russia. Most people don't care that much.

[NRaleighLiberal]

19. "Hillary"s Debacle". Wow.

[Cha]

91. I said the same thing.. shows

he hasn't been paying a bit of attention since everything behind the scenes, came to Light , that got trump rigged into the wh

[NCTraveler]

23. Hey.... Ummmm..... How's it going?

Looking to catch a big one? Any of your alerts been successful yet? Juries still out?

[Wwcd]

40. + a million. Post of the day!!

[IluvPitties]

25. As long is a Dem, I couldn't care less.

[Wwcd]

38. Yup. Guess that leaves BS out.

[Squinch]

58. Definitely. Fool us once and all that.

[GulfCoast66]

26. You think millennials will pick our candidate?

Not a chance. Boomers and Gen Xer’ are the decision makers.

Oh, and all those Southern primaries where African Americans are the king maker(or queen). In my state they are the base of the party. A candidate who treats social issues as a secondary issue will never make it out of the south.

And for only being here for 2 months and change you are diving right into to the deep end of the pool. If I did know better I would think you have been here before.

Have a nice evening

[tazkcmo]

27. Not if their personality

is as inadequate, dull or brown paper wrapping as their political position. Yawn.

[mcar]

29. Hillary's debacle?

Do tell.

[Codeine]

33. That is a great deal of nonsense

to waste on just one post. Pace yourself, ‘bro.

[dembotoz]

34. With super delegates who knows

My state voted one way and with supers the state did not reflect that at convention

[Squinch]

39. Ugh. It's like that scene in "Poltergeist" where all the dead bodies start to

rise up from the graveyard.

[johnp3907]

43. Shooting blanks here, Sharpshooter.

[Codeine]

45. After a hard day of jacking pines,

many a radical likes to unwind with a quick drive-by troll of the adult’s table.

[Squinch]

57. That sounds really painful.

[NanceGreggs]

89. ...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

46. "Hillary's debacle"?

Winning the popular vote with the second highest amount of votes in US history is hardly a debacle.

The Russian interference that helped sway the electoral outcome was indeed a "debacle." I don't see how Hillary herself should be blamed for that.

[Sharpshooter007]

49. It probably sounds a bit harsh

I still think she was unlucky, bad circumstances blunted her momentum at the last minute, but lets be honest, if Obama or Biden had ran it wouldn't have been anything like a 2 point race against the most unpopular candidate in US history, some of it therefore is on her IMO.

My point still stands though that most of the 2020 potential candidates are racing to embrace many of Bernie's proposal's, Medicare for all, $15 dollar minimum wage, money out of politics.

So even if Bernie doesn't run/win, it seems like his message might.

[Voltaire2]

50. I certainly hope not.

Our inability as a political party to clearly stand for positions, to hug desperately to some imaginary middle despite the appallingly radical rightwing agenda of the Republican Party, makes us look weak, indecisive, and incomprehensible. We know where the Republican Party stands.

[Squinch]

56. Stop saying we don't clearly stand for positions. Just stop. It's right wing and ignorant.

Here are a few things we clearly stand for:

We stand for fiscal responsibility. We fix the economy every time Republicans trash it. Which is every time Repubicans are in power.

We stand for women. We fight for their rights to sovereignty over their bodies, we pass legislation to equalize pay and opportunity, we support the social services that are most used by single woman heads of households, among other things.

We stand for people of color. Again, we pass legislation for equalization of pay and opportunity. We speak out against the rank racism of republicans. We don't welcome the kkk among our ranks. WE believe that Black Lives Matter, though some progressives and all republicans don't.

We stand for peace. We do not pick fights with nuclear madmen, and we don't start wars for no reason. We maintain productive and respectful relationships with other countries.

We stand for the disabled and the elderly and the poor. We protect and increase the social services that keep the elderly from destitution and keep the poor from starvation and homelessness. We pass legislation to equalize opportunity for the disabled.

We stand for the environment. We fight for protected spaces and against the rape of the earth simply for profit. We legislate subsidies and opportunity zones for clean energy companies. We respect the laws we have that protect the environment.

We stand for families. We pass legislation to allow parents to insure their children. We support people who cannot work because they are raising disabled children. We stand for FMLA and the right of families to plan their size. We stand for family leave and equal pay for female breadwinners. We stand for good schools.

We stand for access to affordable, quality medical care for all.

We stand for fairness in elections and protection of the franchise. We fight voter suppression. We fight gerrymandering. We are the only ones demanding answers on the Russian interference in our elections.

That's to name only a few. So just cut that shit out of saying "we don't stand for anything."

[Voltaire2]

61. In the context of centrists and moderates

I’ll stand by what I wrote.

The other party is way over to the extreme right. A “centrist” is by definition accommodating and normalizing that rightward drift.

[Squinch]

63. Maybe respond to what I wrote. You are clearly wrong, and spreading right wing propaganda, when you

say we don't "stand for positions."

[Voltaire2]

64. You know what? There is no discussion

possible with a person who demands that you stop having a different opinion than theirs and accuses you of spreading rightwing disinformation.

If you want to discuss this issue start by being polite.

[Squinch]

65. Maybe you can stop saying that we don't stand for anything when that is clearly untrue.

[emulatorloo]

84. There are no discussions with binary thinking ideologues who claim the parties are the same

Or mindlessly regurgitate Bush-era talking points that “Democrats have no ideas”

[Gothmog]

59. I would support a moderate Democrat in 2020

I was a Clinton Delegate to the National Convention and one of my prizes from the convention are a couple of Joe floor signs from his speech. My son grabbed my other "Joe" floor sign and has framed it. I would support Joe if he runs in a heart beat

[Squinch]

62. Whatever Democrat is nominated has my vote. I don't care if it's Lassie.

[Gothmog]

68. I will always support the Democratic nominee

[Cha]

69. "..Hillary's Debacle.."? What?

Sounds like you have not been paying one whit of attention to what been going on since trump was rigged in by the Russians and all the other assholes who assisted in getting this tragic moron in our wh.

And, you obviously haven't read the Democratic Platform.. that's what the Democrats who are on the front lines fighting for our Democracy are about.

[Eliot Rosewater]

71. Hillary's debacle ?

[JI7]

73. Is he going to release his taxes ?

[Atticus]

74. I will support the nominee of the Democratic Party in the 2020 presidential election. PERIOD.

No exceptions. No conditions.

Who is with me?

[emulatorloo]

93. Thats what I always do

Go with the person most to the left in the primary. Then support and knock doors and vote for the nominee. Don’t know why this has become such a difficult concept for some.

[Golden Raisin]

83. Let's get through 2018 first.

[emulatorloo]

86. Bernie 2016 primary supporter here. Will need to release his taxes, come clean about Old Towne

Media, the dark money donors to Our Revolution et cetera before I consider him this time. And ditch that fuck head Jeff Weaver.

There is going to be a lot of competition this time. As always I will vote for the eventual nominee.

[tymorial]

88. Yup, NT

[misanthrope]

90. To begin with, you would need a more precise definition of "moderate/centrist"

The definition of such changes from voter to voter, generation to generation.

For folks old enough to recall stories from relatives who lived through the Great Depression, World War II and the Post-War Boom, things like New Deal and Great Society programs aren't controversial or leftist. They're part and parcel of a functioning and modern civilization.

For those whose political awareness began in the Reagan era or later, that might not be the case. Someone whose interpretation of "left" is Clintonian Third-Way philosophies is going to have a different perspective than many older compatriots.

[shanny]

94. Hope not. It would be a disastrous mistake.