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Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:14 PM

Having taken in a homeless teen myself, I strongly disagree with those who are blaming the couple

Last edited Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:25 PM - Edit history (2)

who tried to help him.

He asked his friend if he could stay at his house, and the friends' parents agreed. They knew the kid's only surviving parent, his mother, had just died of pneumonia, and he had no one.

So they took a leap of faith and said yes. Yes to the disruption of their lives and to sharing what they had. When they found he had a gun that his mother had let him have, they made him lock it up. But, otherwise, they tried to treat him as the adult he legally was, while giving him assistance in working for a GED and getting a job. (What would have happened if they made him get rid of the gun? He could simply have gotten another one. Short of having regular room inspections, they never would have known. He was only with them for a few months.)

When our homeless teen came to live with us, all I knew was that she had abusive parents -- and that my own teen wanted to rescue her. She came here quiet and broken -- and wanting to share very little about her circumstances. We had to trust the judgment of our child and take a chance on her. It didn't feel right to invade her privacy, to take away all that remained of her dignity, by trying to satisfy our curiosity. I would never have gone into her room, for example, and searched her things. Or contacted her school to try to get information from them. Or done any of the other things the Cruz friend's family would have to have done in order to know what a danger he posed.

Our story is the flip side of what happened to Cruz's friend's parents. It's been almost 6 years now, and our teen got her GED, and then a community college degree, and then a UW degree. (Fortunately, our state has programs to pay tuition for students like her.) She got a part time job within a few weeks of arriving at our house, and stayed working the whole time she was in school. Now she's still working and living in an apartment nearby. She is safe, and loved.

But when we took her in, all this was in the future. She has been nothing but a blessing in our lives, but it wasn't because we were smart or did everything right. We just crossed our fingers and hoped -- like the Cruz family friends probably did.

If what happened in this case causes more people to think twice about taking in homeless young people, that will just add to the tragedy. That family was just trying to do the right thing. The natural instinct is to look for scapegoats, but we shouldn't be blaming that family. Not the family who listened to their son and gave a home to a parentless teenager.

ON UPDATE: What if the family had kicked him and his gun out? Or insisted he give up his gun, and the boy decided just to leave? He could have turned up at school with his weapon the next day. WE DON'T KNOW that anything this family did could have stopped him.

It's the laws that need to be changed.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-main-20180215-story.html

-- Suspected murder weapon legally purchased in Broward County: Cruz bought the AR-15 rifle allegedly used in in the shootings at Sunrise Tactical Supply, in a strip mall in Coral Springs. At the store Thursday afternoon, a “closed” sign was on the door and agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were inside.

Peter Forcelli, the special agent in charge of the ATF in South Florida, said Cruz had purchased the gun legally. “Because he’s over the age of 18, he can legally purchase an AR-15.” The arrest report said Cruz bought it last year. “Once you hit your 18th birthday, you can legally buy a rifle, if you pass the background check,” Forcelli said. “Once you hit your 21st birthday, you can buy a handgun.”

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Reply Having taken in a homeless teen myself, I strongly disagree with those who are blaming the couple (Original post)
pnwmom Feb 2018 OP
Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #1
JI7 Feb 2018 #2
pnwmom Feb 2018 #3
JI7 Feb 2018 #4
pnwmom Feb 2018 #8
JI7 Feb 2018 #9
pnwmom Feb 2018 #11
JI7 Feb 2018 #13
Control-Z Feb 2018 #33
JI7 Feb 2018 #48
Control-Z Feb 2018 #93
LisaL Feb 2018 #89
Control-Z Feb 2018 #92
mythology Feb 2018 #42
bettyellen Feb 2018 #31
Chemisse Feb 2018 #108
AlexSFCA Feb 2018 #5
USALiberal Feb 2018 #6
Tatiana Feb 2018 #7
pnwmom Feb 2018 #10
JI7 Feb 2018 #14
Tatiana Feb 2018 #16
LisaL Feb 2018 #61
pnwmom Feb 2018 #65
LisaL Feb 2018 #67
pnwmom Feb 2018 #69
LisaL Feb 2018 #73
pnwmom Feb 2018 #79
SomethingNew Feb 2018 #44
pnwmom Feb 2018 #102
JoeOtterbein Feb 2018 #12
lunasun Feb 2018 #15
robbob Feb 2018 #17
pnwmom Feb 2018 #18
Ms. Toad Feb 2018 #56
hunter Feb 2018 #19
pnwmom Feb 2018 #20
ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #21
ms liberty Feb 2018 #22
panader0 Feb 2018 #23
pnwmom Feb 2018 #25
spanone Feb 2018 #24
Phoenix61 Feb 2018 #26
pnwmom Feb 2018 #28
rainin Feb 2018 #27
pnwmom Feb 2018 #29
bettyellen Feb 2018 #32
pnwmom Feb 2018 #34
bettyellen Feb 2018 #50
JI7 Feb 2018 #52
pnwmom Feb 2018 #75
LisaL Feb 2018 #81
pnwmom Feb 2018 #84
leftstreet Feb 2018 #90
pnwmom Feb 2018 #91
bettyellen Feb 2018 #96
pnwmom Feb 2018 #98
bettyellen Feb 2018 #100
pnwmom Feb 2018 #101
bettyellen Feb 2018 #104
pnwmom Feb 2018 #106
bettyellen Feb 2018 #110
pnwmom Feb 2018 #111
bettyellen Feb 2018 #112
bettyellen Feb 2018 #97
bettyellen Feb 2018 #95
rainin Feb 2018 #37
pnwmom Feb 2018 #41
rainin Feb 2018 #47
pnwmom Feb 2018 #49
bettyellen Feb 2018 #51
JI7 Feb 2018 #53
pnwmom Feb 2018 #87
JI7 Feb 2018 #88
herding cats Feb 2018 #43
trixie2 Feb 2018 #57
pnwmom Feb 2018 #59
LisaL Feb 2018 #66
JohnnyLib2 Feb 2018 #30
mountain grammy Feb 2018 #35
pnwmom Feb 2018 #39
MicaelS Feb 2018 #36
Calista241 Feb 2018 #38
pnwmom Feb 2018 #40
GaryCnf Feb 2018 #45
pnwmom Feb 2018 #46
GaryCnf Feb 2018 #54
pnwmom Feb 2018 #58
underpants Feb 2018 #55
LisaL Feb 2018 #60
pnwmom Feb 2018 #63
LisaL Feb 2018 #64
pnwmom Feb 2018 #68
LisaL Feb 2018 #70
pnwmom Feb 2018 #71
LisaL Feb 2018 #72
pnwmom Feb 2018 #74
LisaL Feb 2018 #77
pnwmom Feb 2018 #80
LisaL Feb 2018 #83
pnwmom Feb 2018 #85
bettyellen Feb 2018 #114
pnwmom Feb 2018 #116
bettyellen Feb 2018 #118
bettyellen Feb 2018 #113
pnwmom Feb 2018 #115
bettyellen Feb 2018 #117
BannonsLiver Feb 2018 #62
tblue37 Feb 2018 #76
LisaL Feb 2018 #78
tblue37 Feb 2018 #82
pnwmom Feb 2018 #86
suffragette Feb 2018 #94
pnwmom Feb 2018 #99
suffragette Feb 2018 #103
janterry Feb 2018 #105
pnwmom Feb 2018 #107
blueinredohio Feb 2018 #109

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:17 PM

1. Yeah why would anyone blame this couple who gave him a roof for a few weeks.

Thanks for this thread.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:18 PM

2. I'm not blaming them but i still have a problem with the gun

It shows the normalization of it also.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:21 PM

3. What if he had gotten rid of it? He could have gotten another,

that they wouldn't have known about -- not unless they were doing frequent, thorough room inspections. If you trust them enough to have them in your home, you treat them like one of your own kids -- not like they're prisoners.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:23 PM

4. I wouldn't let my own kids or any other family or friends bring it either

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Response to JI7 (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:33 PM

8. Right. But so what? They could bring a weapon into the house and unless you were

thoroughly and frequently searching their rooms, you wouldn't know.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:34 PM

9. But they did know

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Response to JI7 (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:40 PM

11. As I said, they could have made him get rid of it. But he could have simply brought it or another

gun back in later, without their knowledge. Their mistake was in trusting him, but there wasn't much they could have done to eliminate the chance of his bringing a gun back into the house, short of treating him like a prisoner who needed to have his room searched every day.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:43 PM

13. That's what republicans say to oppose gun control

Last edited Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)

They will still get it or find another way to harm others.

Maybe they would but that doesn't mean one should just go along and accept it.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:00 PM

33. Didn't they require it be

locked up? That sounds reasonable.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:08 AM

48. and he had the key

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Response to JI7 (Reply #48)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:41 AM

93. Was not aware of that.

Thought they had the key.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:19 AM

89. It was in a lock box in his room, and he had the key.

What exactly do you think that was going to accomplish?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #89)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:40 AM

92. I guess that would defeat its purpose. eom

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Response to JI7 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:18 PM

42. The thing about getting somebody's trust, is you have to trust them first

 

As somebody who has a whole ton of emotional issues around trust, people don't have to meet me half way, they have to come 90% of the way and basically drag me to meet them half way.

They took a chance, unfortunately it didn't work out. That doesn't mean it wasn't the right call based on whatever information they had at the time. I don't know what they knew then, but I am always pretty wary of doing results oriented thinking. Something turning out badly doesn't inherently mean the process was wrong.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:52 PM

31. Same argument the GOP made today about gun control- cant be done.

 

I think they should have said we hold your gun and any other weapons while you are here, period. And yeah, they could have checked his backpack after what he had done. I know their hearts were in the right place, but they knew about the gun and did nothing to stop him from having access. A cabinet? Oh please.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:29 AM

108. I would not allow a weapon like that to reside in my house.

But I don't blame the family who took the kid in. He owned it legally; it's not like they were harboring an illegal weapon.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:24 PM

5. I dont blame them, if he was not be able to obtain weapon he would not kill so many kids

there are teens who are agressive, depressed, with mental issues, drug abusers, etc. They can easily buy ar15 and there is no limit on how many. It is more difficult to get pot or alcohol (legally) for teens than weapons of mass destruction. And with further restriction on abortions, there will be no lack of unwanted kids.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:25 PM

6. Thank you for posting this. So many here are so clueless. n.t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:28 PM

7. In my house, weapons are not allowed period.

When I got married, I told my husband the gun had to go. I would never let my kids, my spouse, or anyone I opened up my home to (and I, too, have taken in more than a few individuals until they could get back on their feet) have a firearm in my house. Should the owners of the residence have been inspecting his room?

OF COURSE! He's 19! I do the same to my daughter when she's home from college and I don't apologize for it because it's my house.

It's called being responsible. If you're going to do it, do it all the way.

It seems as though he was able to maintain his weaponry with some support from the individuals that were trying to help him. And that will probably weigh on them from some time. They do bear some responsibility in this -- good deed notwithstanding.

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:38 PM

10. Searching an adult's room is an invasion of privacy. If I had done that to the teen we took in,

she would have just been hurt more than she already had been.

And I never dreamed of searching my own children's rooms. That is NOT the definition of being a responsible parent, unless you think you have a good reason to suspect them.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:44 PM

14. You don't have to search, but you can take a stand and say you don't allow it

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:54 PM

16. So we parent differently, and that's OK.

I'm sorry - there is no expectation of privacy if you are not self-supporting in my home. That's how I grew up and it served us just fine.

I'm personally glad that I have searched my daughter's room (with suspicion). Once, I did find something that let us to have a great conversation and helped her make better choices.

I was never hurt when my mom searched my room because she was always clear about the rules up front. Don't bring anything into the home that is illegal, harmful to ourselves or others, or otherwise dangerous. And her "spot checks" were to make sure we complied with her rules (which we did).

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:58 AM

61. Who says anything about room searching?

Gun was kept in the locked cabinet but the suspect had the key. What in the world is the point of keeping the gun locked up if he had a key?
What was locking it up going to accomplish?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:04 AM

65. Some were saying they wouldn't have allowed a gun into the house. But how would they know,

even if they required him to get rid of the gun, that he wouldn't bring it -- or another gun -- back inside? The only way to be sure he didn't bring a gun in would be to search the house -- thoroughly and frequently.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #65)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:07 AM

67. Keeping the gun locked up with him having the key makes about as much sense

as closing the barn door after the cows have gone.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:09 AM

69. If the parents had kicked him out, how would that have made the school safer?

He still would have had the guns in his legal possession. That's the real problem.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:39 AM

73. What does searching have to do with it?

They knew he had the gun. He also was obviously very troubled. If they say they didn't know how troubled he was, then they let him move in without knowing much about him at all.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #73)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:50 AM

79. I let someone move in without knowing much about her at all.

She had living been in a city an hour away and I'd never even met her. I trusted my own child's judgment because that's all I had to go on. The homeless teen didn't trust me enough to share her situation. It took months and months before she did.

It makes me sick to think what could have happened to her if my husband hadn't supported me in giving her a chance.

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:20 PM

44. You inspect your adult daughter's room?

Pretty twisted. Even with nothing to hide, if my mom did that, I would never have gone home to visit.

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Response to SomethingNew (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:31 AM

102. I agree. I can't imagine doing that to my college students. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:43 PM

12. Agree 100%! Never stop being kind pnwmom!

And Thanks for the post!

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 08:53 PM

15. They probably saw the help of getting him into GED classes and a new job as progress. Thier own

son was at that school during the shooting . Wish posters would think about that, and what they must be going through, besides all the attacks on them by the public saying they are to blame.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 09:20 PM

17. If people are blaming the family, then I take exception to that.

But I think it’s entirely reasonable to question the wisdom of letting a “troubled teen” bring his gun into your house. I think what it points to is the normalization of gun ownership in the USA.

I live in Canada. The thought that a young person would come to live with you and bring his own gun is absolutely ludicrous! “Hey mom, my friend Timmie is coming to stay with us, and by the way, he’s bringing his gun”!

Oh, don’t worry, he’ll keep it under lock and key. Don’t worry, his Mom is ok with it.

It’s absolute madness, there is no other word for it. Sure, if they had forbidden him to bring his gun he could have got another, or even snuck the one he had in without them knowing. That’s not the point. They KNEW he was a troubled kid, and they let him know they were ok with him bringing a gun into their home.

I am NOT blaming them for what happened; don’t put words in my mouth. I am questioning the wisdom of letting a troubled kid bring a gun into their home, and questioning the societal values where such a thing would even be considered.

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Response to robbob (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 09:27 PM

18. I agree. They were no doubt influenced by the gun culture in Florida.

And they didn't necessarily know he was troubled, other than that his parents had both died. Making him lock the gun up would be more than most people there would probably do.

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Response to robbob (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:41 AM

56. Here's a whole vile thread of parent blaming

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 09:33 PM

19. I'm not blaming them. I'm absolutely blaming U.S.A. gun culture.

There's nothing normal about guns.

I don't even trust most cops to carry guns.

This nation would be a better place if 99% of the guns were destroyed.

We need to take gun culture head on, just as we did with drunk driving and smoking. It's a serious public health issue.

It ought to be damned near impossible for any unstable or careless person to obtain a gun, and alarm bells ought to go off if anyone wants a gun for anything other than utilitarian purposes.

No, I do not think a day at the shooting range is a healthy hobby. No, I do not think guns are useful tools for "self defense."

Screw the second amendment. It has no place in the 21st century, just as Constitutionally sanctioned slavery had no place in the 19th, or excluding women from voting had in the 20th.

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Response to hunter (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 09:34 PM

20. I agree. The whole culture, and the government that supports it, is to blame. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 09:46 PM

21. I fell for it yesterday and blamed the "dad"

It was a knee jerk reaction based on rumors about the family who took him in. I get that now. It's difficult dealing with this when it happens over and over again. You want to blame someone. Government is the obvious culprit, but they washed their hands of responsibility long ago. The NRA pays the government not to listen. Besides, these two are just faceless entities. The "dad" is one person with a name and face. It's much easier to lay the blame at his feet. But like I said, I get it now.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 09:51 PM

22. Well said, and well done. Thanks for being a voice of reason. K&R n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:01 PM

23. You did a great thing pnwmom.

"She has been nothing but a blessing in our lives"
And you in hers.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #23)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:15 PM

25. pander0, thank you! n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:03 PM

24. K&R...

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:26 PM

26. We look at others and see what

they did "wrong". It gives us a false sense of security that somehow if we don't do the "wrong" thing we will be safe. It's why we want to know what she was wearing when she was raped, or what he was doing out that late at night when he got shot. It's a way for us to make sense of the craziness and think our world is predictable. It's completely inaccurate but... it's what we do.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:36 PM

28. That's exactly it. It makes us feel safer to think we'd never do anything that we believe,

with hindsight, was stupid.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:29 PM

27. Perhaps it will be unpopular, but I think the "father" is culpable.

Consider this, if the father were asked "would he do anything differently?", my guess is, he would strongly regret his judgement with the gun. It's not a handgun, or a rifle. I doubt any one of us would agree to bring a high powered machine gun into our home and give a key to a 19-year-old.

I wouldn't even give my car to a 19-year-old without a lot of proof that he was stable, healthy, trustworthy, etc.

This dad was wrong, even though he meant well.

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Response to rainin (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:37 PM

29. How would the father know that another gun hadn't been brought in later?

If Cruz was so determined to do this, he probably would have. It was just a matter of time.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:57 PM

32. As you said above- ignore you have suspicions, you can search. And a total stranger brings a gun?

 

I’d search and find the knives and lock them up, end of story. The child would not be allowed to bring more in, if they did, they’d be out the door. And suing me to get their weapons back, LOL. Sad they went along w what the kids wanted instead.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:03 PM

34. Well, we've already established that you are perfect. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:10 AM

50. In this case Im a fuck ton better than anyone who shrugged over the guns and knives, yes I am.

 

Rude response for such a saintly person.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:28 AM

52. exactly

we are talking about a fucking gun .

as i said above, i wouldn't even let my own family and friends bring it . and i would suspect something wrong with someone just based on them wanting to bring a gun.

this thread makes it seem as if it was about some dog or other pet which ended up not being a good idea.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:47 AM

75. What makes you think that if the friend's father had banned this teen and his gun from the house

that the outcome would have been any better? That the teen wouldn't have just taken his gun and shot up the school anyway?

The problem was that it was perfectly legal for him to possess it.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #75)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:52 AM

81. Well, I guess we have no choice but to allow armed teenagers to move into our houses.

All righty then.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #81)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:54 AM

84. Of course we have that choice and it might usually be the right choice. However, we are deluding

ourselves if we think the shooting could have been avoided if only that friend's parents had banned him and his gun from their house.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #84)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:28 AM

90. I think the point being overlooked here...

If they were kind, caring people offering him some stability (and it sounds like they were) perhaps their affection would be the motivation for the kid to say 'okay, the gun's not worth it.'

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #90)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:32 AM

91. Yes -- I think that could have been the friend's parents' hope. It just didn't work out that way,

despite what was probably their best effort.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #91)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:03 AM

96. Bullshit. They were okay with the gun locked away if they insist on calling it that.

 

And THAT is part of the problem. They could have been supportive and nice AND said no to the kids gun. Period.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #96)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:23 AM

98. And if the kid preferred to leave than get rid of his gun, then what? He would have been

just as much of a hazard to the school if he were living on the street.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #98)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:27 AM

100. Theyd bear no responsibility for his ability to use the gun.

 

Unfortunately, at this point in time they do. No one can say what would have happened if this kid ran out of couches to crash on.

But it couldn’t have been worse than what he attempted to do. That’s not even debatable.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #100)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:30 AM

101. They don't, except in the same way all of us do -- as a part of a sick society with

terrible gun laws.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #101)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:00 AM

104. Nope. They harbored a sick kid with an AK-15. Well meaning people do stupid things all the time.

 

It’s unfortunate- but it’s also something a lot of us would never ever do. I get it, some like to look the other way and hope for the best. But for lots of us, thank god, guns are a deal breaker. Fucking assault rifles are a huge red flag. Nope, not happening.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #104)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:23 AM

106. Pushing a kid out into the street with an assault rifle would have been just as risky.

The high school would have been no safer.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #106)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:07 PM

110. Nope- the kid had a roof over his head- one his mother trusted.

 

He wanted to pack up his arsenal and leave- that has nothing to do with anyone else. But you can cater to the whims of this angry young man and feel guilty if you don’t let them have guns. That’s on you. But don’t suggest that becasue he asks someone for something they are responsible for what they do if they say no. That’s the most victim blamey bullshit I have ever heard.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #110)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:18 PM

111. The roof over his head didn't make the school shooting any more likely. If he had gotten kicked out,

he would have taken the weapon with him, and there would have been nothing to stop him from attacking the school.

I'm saying that the roof over his head is IRRELEVANT. The risk is related to his legal possession of the weapon, not to the existence of a roof or no roof in Florida.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #111)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:27 PM

112. He wasnt getting kicked out, he preferred to live elsewhere. Spare me the guilt bullshit.

 

And the risk in letting him stay rent free- wherever he wants to? It’s that he spends his paychecks on more guns. That he is allowed to call the shots. Sorry. I’d not let my own adult kid have an AK-15 in the House. Why would I let a sketchy stranger? Nope. No guilt for saying no to that.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #81)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:03 AM

97. LOL. Talk about permissive parenting!

 

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #75)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:00 AM

95. Like I said, I would have taken the gun and kicked him out without it if he insisted on keeping it.

 

not enabling bad shit is kind of important to some of us. YMMV.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:11 PM

37. The story the young man was permitted to keep the one he had.

The father should have said no. After that, he isn't responsible for what he didn't do, or didn't allow, or some hypothetical future that might have happened. He's responsible for what he did.

We can have compassion for him now, but he messed up.

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Response to rainin (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:15 PM

41. Hindsight is always 20/20. The father did his best. Meanwhile, we have members of the GOP

who are cold-bloodedly taking money from the NRA, and cold-bloodedly voting for laws that put AR-15 into the hands of people like Cruz.

But it's so much simpler to focus blame on a single person who wasn't as smart as we're sure we would have been, never having been in their shoes.

But think about it. If that boy had been kicked out, or left voluntarily with his gun, he could have showed up at school with it the NEXT DAY. There was nothing to stop him, because of the gun laws that are in place.

I don't see the point of blaming the father.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:05 AM

47. There isn't a point except as a response to the OP.

The original post said he shouldn't be "blamed" because he was a good person who took in a homeless and troubled teenager and he couldn't have known what the teenager would do.

My comment is that he was wrong to allow the teenager to bring in an automatic weapon.

I don't see why we can't believe he was wrong without having experienced it ourselves. We make judgements of right and wrong all the time without having to personally experience every situation.

I'm not going to send hate mail, I'm not going to protest his house, I'm not going to do anything immoral, but I have an opinion that is contrary to you and the OP that I am free to express.

I believe he showed poor judgement in allowing the gun to come into the house. I believe I would not have every allowed a 19-year-old to bring that gun into my house. I raised boys. The brains of 19-year-old boys aren't fully mature yet. The father should have had better judgement.

I have a strong suspicion the father would agree with me. I don't need 20/20 hindsight to have made that call correctly. That doesn't make me perfect. I've made many other mistakes. I just wouldn't have allowed a 19-year-old to bring that gun into my house.

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Response to rainin (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:08 AM

49. What if he hadn't allowed the teen in? How do you know the teen wouldn't have shot up the school

the next day? He would still have had the gun. He could still have bought more.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:13 AM

51. If every parent had a no gun policy, hed be on the streets and the radar of police and social

 

Services. And if it was my house- he leave without his damn gun.
Who are we kidding, he’d be on someone’s couch. Guns are too important to too many people. It’s a cultural
Sickness.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:30 AM

53. you don't know that but you don't give in to their gun obsession . you want a fucking place to stay

get rid of the gun.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:05 AM

87. And so he leaves and shoots up the school the next day. How do you know that wouldn't happen?

That teen was determined -- it could have happened either way.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #87)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:08 AM

88. we don't know. but coddling his gun obsession sure didn't help

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Response to rainin (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:20 PM

43. His father died in 2005.

Then the shooter stayed with friends of the family after his mom just recently died of the flu. He even more recently (a couple of weeks) moved in with his friends family.

I’m not playing him as a sympathetic person, he’s not. I’m just saying not a single person he’s been with recently knew him intimately. He was basically free and of oversight and exploited the lack of anyone left who knew how dangerous he potentially was to plan his attack.

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Response to rainin (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:52 AM

57. I agree with you

I can't believe people on this board and actually saying it is ok for a non family person, with a history as his, to bring a gun into their home. They know they can be held culpable and that is why they already have a lawyer. They are just lucky he didn't knock them off first.

You can help people without being stupid about it. No guns in our home - ever! A person with a gun fetish would never even associate with any member of our family, and extended family, it would be a no brainer.

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Response to trixie2 (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:43 AM

59. Why do you think if they kicked him out then anyone would have been any safer (except they

themselves?)

He could have left them and taken the gun with him and shot up the school the very next day. He had legally purchased the gun and ammo, and could have legally purchased more. That was the real problem -- not whether he was living with this family or as a homeless person in the park.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #59)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:05 AM

66. While we can speculate about what he could or couldn't have done, we know what he actually did do.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 10:51 PM

30. Thanks, PNWMom.



Generosity, willingness to take a risk, helpfulness, and operating with no agency backing.......much credit to you and others who have done that. I agree that the family who took Cruz in should not be scapegoats.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:08 PM

35. Thank you for this very good post.

We sheltered two of my daughter's friends for short periods of time during high school. We live in a rural area so we did know their circumstances.. both had a single parent who went to jail and the other parent was absent. Each needed a place and we had an extra bedroom. I honestly never gave it much thought, but now I probably would. That said, I can't imagine saying no in either case. It worked out well for all of us and we've remained close over the years.

America is full of broken people and support just isn't there, but every now and then you get the opportunity to help. I would encourage everyone, if at all possible, to always try to say yes.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:13 PM

39. And thanks for what you yourself did.

The world seems so messed up but we can all try to help, one person at a time. I learned that from my parents. My parents took in a girl, too, and we still love her like a sister.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:10 PM

36. Lots of people (esp on DU) love being morally superior...

To others. The first that happens with many people when a tragedy occurs is to look for someone to blame, so they can self-righteously say "I would have never done that."

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:11 PM

38. Much respect to you pnwmom. n/t

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:14 PM

40. Thank you, Calista241! n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:39 PM

45. Thank you for your OP

 

AND your replies. Taking in an older child is an act of love. Treating them with respect is an act of humanity.

Those two lessons were a million times more valuable than all the "my house, my rules" exhibitions of power and control in the history of the world.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 11:56 PM

46. We suddenly found ourselves in a situation with no rulebook -- just feeling our way.

Fortunately, my husband and I have the same approach to life -- I couldn't have done this if he weren't on board.

Now we feel so grateful that things worked out the way they did, and that we made the right decisions. (We didn't know how bad things had been for her at the time; we found out slowly, over the course of a year, as she began to trust us.)

But at the time all this began, we could only hope.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:34 AM

54. It's a wonderful story

 

I was the only kid among my childhood friends with even one parent anywhere in the picture by the time we all graduated high school and the only one to make it out. There were so many of them whose lives would have been so different if someone could have done what you did.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #54)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:38 AM

58. Thank you for your kind words.

My parents had set an example for this, with one of my sister's friends. Her parents were older, and one was disabled and they both drank a lot. So she spent months at a time with us. She tells me that some of those months were spent in my room with me -- which I don't even remember, because it was so normal to have her with us. When we have family "reunions," she's always there.

My mother had also had a time of being cared for by a friend's family, and I knew about that, too.

The difference in our situation six years ago is that we had never even met the girl before we agreed she could come over -- in an emergency in the middle of the night. A couple days later, our children were helping her move her things in. We still didn't know what had gone wrong with her and her family (who lived in another city), so it was a little scary. What if SHE was the problem and not her parents? We had to trust our own teen's judgment.

Thank goodness we did! And thank goodness for the "nanny state" that helped us help her put a life back together (including counseling on a sliding fee scale -- so almost nothing.)

Wow -- you were the only one left with a parent? And to make it out? So you understand what teens can go through. Too many people don't.

I'm so glad you made it! All the best for you going forward.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:37 AM

55. Thank you

You changed a life

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:54 AM

60. Did they homeless teen you took in have AR-15?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #60)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:02 AM

63. No, but I wouldn't have known it. I wasn't searching her room for contraband.

I wasn't watching everything she took into the house.

Why does anyone think the parents of the friend could have stopped the shooting? It was perfectly legal for him to own the weapon. If they had said no, the boy could have ended up living in a park or on the street, with the pack on his back loaded with his gun and ammo. He could have shot up the school at any time -- no matter what they did.

Because the real problem is that it was perfectly legal for this 19 year old to buy an AR-15 and enough ammo to shoot up to 150 times in a few minutes.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #63)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:04 AM

64. Is that what happened here? I don't think so.

“It was his gun,” family lawyer Jim Lewis said. “The family made him keep it in a locked gun cabinet in the house, but he had a key.”

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/nikolas-cruz-legally-purchased-ar-15-despite-long-history-of-mental-illness-warnings-10089980

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Response to LisaL (Reply #64)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:07 AM

68. What difference does that make? People are saying that the parents shouldn't have allowed him

to keep the gun -- as if that could have kept him from shooting up the school.

But there is no evidence for that. If he was as determined as he appears to be, he would have found a way. He would have only pretended to get rid of the gun, or he could have gotten another gun, or he would have moved out with the gun -- to some place where no one would insist he give it away.

And he could still have shot up the school.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #68)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:12 AM

70. Again, we can speculate all day long about what he could or couldn't have done.

We know what he did do.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #70)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:17 AM

71. Hindsight is always 20/20.But these parents didn't have the advantage of it when they were deciding.

Just because this happened to be the particular outcome doesn't mean it was the ONLY possible outcome.

If they had kicked out the kid, knowing he was armed, and he had gone and shot up the school, then people would be blaming them for kicking him out.

Because some people like to blame.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #71)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:32 AM

72. Why did they let him in to begin with?

He was armed, so they made him keep the gun locked up with him having the key. What did they think that was going to accomplish?
Of course you are welcome to let armed teenagers into your house. But it's not gonna happen in mine.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #72)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:44 AM

74. Their son asked if he could move in with them. I haven't seen it reported anywhere

whether they knew about the gun when they said yes. They did have a gun safe in their house, so presumably they already owned a gun and were more comfortable with guns than we are.

But giving this teen a place to sleep didn't increase the chance he would shoot up the school. If they had barred the door, he still would have had the gun. And he might have been distraught enough to shoot up the school even sooner.

We'll never know what would have happened if the parents had banned him and his gun from the house.

But the real focus should be why we have gun laws that allowed him to get hold of an AR-15 and all that ammo.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:49 AM

77. They knew he had the gun.

Their idea of keeping it secure was to allow him to keep it in his room, locked up, with him having the key. I don't see anything reported anywhere about them having a gun safe in their house prior to him moving in. Gun was kept in lockbox in his room.

"Cruz had a gun. The family knew that, but they had established rules. He had to keep it in a lockbox in his room. Cruz had the key to the lockbox, the attorney said."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting-suspect/index.html

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Response to LisaL (Reply #77)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:52 AM

80. They knew he had the gun. So? He still would have had the gun if they banned him from the house.

And he still could have used it. You think if he'd been forced to wander the streets with his backpack that he'd have been LESS likely to shoot up the school?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #80)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:53 AM

83. Again, you are welcome to allow armed troubled teenagers into your house.

As you seemed to be arguing they had no choice but to let him move in with his weapon.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #83)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:56 AM

85. I am not arguing that. I am saying that it is basically IRRELEVANT. That teen was a threat

to that school, and to people in general, no matter where he was living. Because it was legal for him to own that weapon and its ammo. And the friend's father didn't have the legal right to disarm him. All he could legally do was ban him from his house and pass the problem onto someone or somewhere else.

And that kid would still have been a ticking time bomb.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #85)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:51 PM

114. They helped him earn money and live rent free so he could buy more guns.

 

And that’s the very possible unintended consequences of helping him. Sometimes it’s better not to “help” people the way they want to be helped. Or to let 19 year olds call the shots.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #114)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:53 PM

116. He didn't buy more guns. He had the same gun he'd have left the house with

if they'd kicked him out.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #116)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:05 PM

118. Since you were talking hypotheticals, I thought I would too.

 

And apparently he had pics of 6-7 different guns, including the AK. So buying more guns was damned likely. Perhaps if he had to pay rent he couldn’t have afforded them.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #80)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:49 PM

113. Hed not been forced to roam the streets. He preferred to find other accommodations.

 

Let’s not twist this into something it is not.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #113)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:52 PM

115. If the parents had kicked him out, he would have been out on the streets with his loaded backpack.

Florida wouldn't have been any safer.

It didn't matter where he slept at night. What mattered is that US and Florida laws allowed him to easily purchase the weapon and its ammo.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #115)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:03 PM

117. He was in the home of his moms friend and he wanted to leave. Not a night in the streets.

 

Stop pretending this was some dramatic helping the homeless. The man and his little brother already had a roof over their heads. I’m going to guess they were shopping around for someone who would let him have his misguided way- and unfettered access to his gun. Not a good thing.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:00 AM

62. THEse issues are complicated

It’s too early for anyone to judge this family one way or another. Little is known about them, what they knew and what they didn’t. We have one side of the story. More will come out as the process plays out.

I think these efforts by people are admirable. Most of the time they end better than this situation did.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:48 AM

76. Three times I have taken in young people. One 14-year-old when she became too

much for her parents to handle, one 19-year-old college student when her boyfriend broke up with her and threw her out of the apartment they shared, one 24-year-old young man, when his mother, who was my next-door neighbor moved out of town and he had nowhere else to go for a few months.

I understand why they reached out to help that boy.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #76)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:50 AM

78. Were they armed?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #78)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:53 AM

82. No, but two of them were potentially trouble. nt

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #76)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:57 AM

86. Thank you, tblue37. I'm glad you could be there for them. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:57 AM

94. I remember going to see the Dalai Lama when he came to Seattle. I still have a t-shirt from that

event that has a quote from him that I try to observe:

“Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."

What you did exemplifies that quote.

And what you are saying now has the power of kindness behind it.

And wisdom as well.

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Response to suffragette (Reply #94)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:25 AM

99. This means a lot to me, suffragette.

Thank you for sharing this.



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Response to pnwmom (Reply #99)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:47 AM

103. Thank you for being there for your daughter's friend. And for being persistent about the issue

of this young man being able to legally buy an assault weapon and massive amounts of ammo.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:14 AM

105. I don't see a need to blame them

or anyone. For one thing, we sure don't know anything - but the basic outline that is being reported. Once we know the full story - well, the blame goes to the young man, still. There may be some missed cues that we might learn about - and that might help. But people pointing fingers before the professionals get a chance to sit with him and learn what happened -
that's just a rush to judgment.

OTOH, I don't allow guns in my home. So, yes, he would have had to get rid of it. If someone wanted to stay over night here, and they had a gun - I suppose they'd have to leave it elsewhere. It's not allowed in my home.

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Response to janterry (Reply #105)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:28 AM

107. We don't have guns in our home either. But I don't think this town would have been any safer

if the friend's parents had ordered the teen out into the street with his gun. And they couldn't just take it from him. If he'd wanted to keep it, they would have had to let him go.

As it was, someone else reported him to the FBI for some youtube video that made him appear violent, and the FBI said there was nothing they could do.

In the US, we let 19 year olds buy assault rifles and ammo -- and even younger teens easily get their hands on them. And then we wonder why we have these shootings.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 07:06 AM

109. I'm very soft hearted and would have taken him in too but still feel there's no reason for anyone to

have an AD 15

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