America was poised for a renaissance.

[ResIpsa]

Workers were about to be paid more...The debt was manageable. Healthcare in reach. Solar and wind as energy alternatives. (finally.) Federal Judicial Seats were primed for citizen friendly judges, sentencing reform, legalization of MJ, redistricting Reform, the end of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...and they cheated and stole it from us. President Obama had been such a forward looking steward of our country, and we were about to have our first woman President. And we were robbed. Cheated and ROBBED. And as we sit (just like with Gerrymandering under Bush), our Federal Benches are being filled with Anti-Abortion Judges and the Supreme Court has been skewed for the next thirty plus years.
Nothing was/is beyond the pale for the right wing. WHAT are we prepared to do about it? It's not in our nature, but, I'm afraid it's time to fight ugly. Not sure even what that looks like, but, dt has to go. SOON. It'll take literally a generation to reverse...and that's IF we hold the Govt. What's going to happen when the 911 style terrorist attack happens again? What then? I hope it isn't in the cards, but, NOTHING is beyond these people.
How can we push Mueller along some? Why hasn't he brought initial charges to start the right off with whatever they have in reserve to counter it? He MUST have multiple charges. He needs to bring the low-ball stuff now. We can't keep letting dishonest prevail.
if you fight fair with folks who refuse to fight fair, losing is inevitable. We have to get some steel in our spines.

[tonyt53]

1. Got to disagree. Nobody "cheated". American voters did it to themselves.

They fell for trumps line of nonsense. They also voted to keep the Senate in GOP control. If voters are so ignorant that they will believe everything they read and hear, then nothing will ever change.

Oh, and that 911-style terrorist attack? Likely in mid-October of this year AND 2020.

[brush]

4. Guess you never heard of Interstate Crosscheck or gerrymandering. The repugs cheated all right.

Last edited Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Not to mention Putin and Assange stealing DNC communications and releasing info drip by drip before the election.

And then there was Comey's letter on Oct. 26, 2016.

You may want to retract your statement.

[tonyt53]

8. Oh, I've heard of them all. Still up to the voters. I'm not retracting anything.

Been around far too long to not be able to see that American voters did it to themselves willingly.

[democratisphere]

11. Aided and abetted by the Russians, Comey, fakebook, Twitter Sh'tter

and whole bunch of deplorable critters.

[RandomAccess]

17. Then you're not looking "around" enough

Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.

The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.

We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029576691

Here is how they stole the election, well this and KGB operatives V Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

23:00 6/25/2017
PALMER: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/rigged-election-donald-trump-won-every-surprise-swing-state-by-the-same-1-margin/118/

The most commonly posited explanation of Donald Trump’s shocking election victory was that every professional pollster in the nation – despite each working independently and using differing methodologies – somehow managed to overlook the same pockets of Trump voters in these states. If such pockets did exist, they would have existed in varying sizes in each of the four states, thus resulting in different sized wins in each.

Ask any statistician and they’ll tell you that a reasonable distribution of the results would have been Trump winning one of the states by one percent, won one of them by perhaps three percent, won one of them by two percent, lost one of them by one percent, or something along those lines. But instead the voting tallies looked startlingly different from any natural distribution. In fact they looked startlingly the same.

According to the New York Times, the voting results broke down like this: Trump won Florida by just over one percent of the vote. He also won Pennsylvania by just over one percent. He won Michigan by just under one percent. And he won Wisconsin by precisely one percent. That’s not how numbers tend to work in the real world.

On its own, this kind of suspiciously consistent numerical dispersion across the four states that decided the election would be something that could be written off as a mere fluke. But when you put it within the context of the numerous other ways in which the voting tallies make no mathematical sense, it points to the numbers having been rigged or altered.

MikeFarb @mikefarb1
#unhackthevote
Did Trump win Michigan? I don' think so.
Won by 10,704 but wait
75,355 Ballots Thrown Out
87 Machines Broke Down in Detrioit

Link to tweet

[diane in sf]

20. Truth, thank you.

[mythology]

25. None of that means if voters turned out, Clinton wouldn't have won

Also the claim that Trump couldn't have won a handful of states by small percentages, ignores that the elections in individual states aren't unrelated. If the demographics are similar, it stands to reason that the results would be similar. But that's why Palmer Report is a garbage source. He's an idiot who has his conclusion and then interprets to fit that conclusion.

Likewise Comey is only a factor because Clinton had that email server. No server, no Comey announcement.

If voter suppression was enough, we wouldn't be doing so well in recent elections.

[RandomAccess]

26. I disagree completely

[brush]

43. Uninformed.

[trof]

34. And you're a Russian bot.

[tonyt53]

35. Not hardly. Just someone that spent a couple of school years doing bomb drills under desks.

People such as yourself just can't accept the fact that YOU fell for the nonsense that was being put out. People such as yourself too it hook, line and sinker. You never doubted any of it. You took it as the truth because you read it on the internet/facebook. Odds are, you likely voted third party, which was the same as voting for trump. Me? I gladly donated to and voted for the best candidate of them all - Hillary Clinton. Bots ass.

[trof]

36. Wrong. On every single count.

Batting 1000.
Not bad for a bot.

[tonyt53]

40. You have no idea and never will. Yeah, just keep up the same nonsense and see what happens

Your head is in the sand, or somewhere else. You have no idea who I am or what I am. I'll tell ya. i remember very well doing our bomb drills in elementary school. I remember the day JFK was assassinated. I watched every minute of the entire event on TV, including seeing Oswald getting shot. I had the mumps and wasn't in school the days between JFK's assassination and the Thanksgiving break, plus a few days the following week. I've lived through the murders of MLK and RFK. I was in the first 18 y/o's that got to vote in 1972, and wasted my time and efforts on McGovern. I was drafted, but they wouldn't take me because both of my brothers were in Vietnam. I was in college but students deferments were gone by then. I joined the US Marines in 1974 because my brothers were back in the States, and was in Vietnam till the end. I joined because my brothers had served and I felt an obligation. Returned to college and finished my degree. Worked hard for Jimmy Carter both times, and have worked hard for every Democratic Party candidate since, including my state and local. Could not have been more proud when Obama won his first term, then his second. Proudly supported Hillary Clinton in 2016 - through the primary and general elections. Which is something you likely did not. You probably voted for Stein. I, unlike you and some others on here, never fell for that nonsense that was floating around on social media.

Now you want to call me a bot. How about you come back when you can understand what a REAL Democrat is, because at this point, you have no idea. Your name calling sure looks a lot like a typical trump supporter. Calling people names is pretty stupid and immature and only works on those that are just like you.

[ResIpsa]

10. THANK YOU.

[Loki Liesmith]

14. Gerrymandering is completely normal

And wouldn’t have been so severe if Dems has turned up to vote in 2010.

[brush]

18. "Normal"? What does that mean? It sure doesn't mean that it didn't affect elections...

Last edited Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:12 AM - Edit history (1)

and it's cheating and helped repugs control state legislatures and the House.

[Loki Liesmith]

21. Both sides do it

It’d be great if the Supreme Court makes it more difficult but it’s a game that’s been played for a long time.

Next time: Dems please show up for non-presidential elections.

[brush]

22. Both sides? That phrase sounds familiar. Oh, that's what trump said about the Charlottesville nazis.

One little thing you didn't mention. The side in power draws the redistricting lines.

The repugs have had that power for several years in most states and have cheated to guarantee their candidates win. If you contend Dems do it also pls provide links.

And maybe you haven't heard Dems have been fighting in court and have recently won—judges have rule that cheating repugs have drawn illegal district lines.

Both sides my ass. Both sides don't have that power.

[tonyt53]

27. YOU are wrong. But you likely will never accept that.

Even in some GOP states, there are gerrymandered Democrat districts so it will less likely there will be a challenge to the others.

[brush]

28. Do you not get, especially in GOP states, Dems don't draw district lines. Repugs have been known...

to draw lines to put all Dem voters into one district while they makes sure 4 or 5 districts favor repugs.

You need to research that. Repugs in power draw district lines not Democrats.

[tonyt53]

30. Yes, I get it. But I also know that what I previously stated is true.

How in the hell does a Democrat win a seat in SC or TX? The way I said they do.

[brush]

31. Dems may flip districts in red states, especially now with the trump backlash, but repugs...

control the redistricting and make some district to favor Dems as a sop but way more to favor themselves.

That's done often with POC districts so they can't be accused of racism if a few POCs get elected.

[crazycatlady]

42. It is called misogyny

Americans elected a sexual predator over a well qualified woman.

I see the sexism here on DU too.

[Cosmocat]

37. This

100% self inflicted wounds.

[Skittles]

38. repukes stole a SC seat

because they knew Hillary would never be president

[ResIpsa]

2. Agree to disagree..

How'd Gorsuch happen? To name one.BLATANT stonewalling. Likely illegal. Had NEVER happened before to my knowledge. (Of course...I'm human...may be wrong, but let's not perfect be the enemy of the good. Eh?) Russians in our elections? WELCOMED no less. That's an act of war in any other Administration. Seems that may be one of our 'issues'...folding like a cheap suit...right off the bat.Just saying. We were poised for greatness. Just my MHO. Not trying to fry anyone out.

[tonyt53]

12. All the American voter had to do is to vote against trump.

It really is that simple. To have fallen for the nonsense that was floating about, means that people are gullible and will believe anything they read online or hear from somebody else. Anything.

About Gorsuch. We wouldn't have what we have with the SC if people had voted for the Democrat candidates in the Senate races. We WERE poised for greatness, but were doomed by ignorance of the voters.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

15. no it was not that simple

Your simplistic view ignores most of the facts surrounding the campaign and election. If your view were an adequate reflection of reality, there would be no Mueller investigation necessary. That one fact is sufficient to disprove your entire claim.

[tonyt53]

29. Ah, another conspiracy theory follower in the making.

The reality is that people some fell for the nonsense that was being put, and now they won't admit that to themselves. Sort of like falling for a sales pitch; If the price is so low that it sounds too good to be true...... People such as yourself fell for the nonsense without ever stepping back to think about its credibility. This has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation. Mueller's investigation has to do with who was behind that misinformation, as a part of the investigation. With the indictments today, that part of the investigation is being covered. But there can never be an investigation into just how the hell so many people fell for that nonsense in the first place. To find that answer, those gullible people will have to look in the mirror and ask themselves how they fell for that nonsense.

YES, it really was that simple.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

32. psychic?

You said:

People such as yourself fell for the nonsense without ever stepping back to think about its credibility.

You may be relying on an unreliable psychic for the above, strange conclusion. In any case, you're simply wrong.

[tonyt53]

33. Not even remotely wrong - except in the eyes and mind of the naive. You are simply naive.

[Skittles]

39. Hillary was held to impossible standards, while Trump was held to no standards at all

it's way more complicated than you think

[ResIpsa]

13. Strikes me that Liberals can beat the snot out of each other...

but can't seem to find the stones to do the same w the GOP. We are the REDCOATS on the horizon to the Pioneer fighters. We're easy targets. IMHO...and I do mean...IMHO...we need to stop the circular firing squad of fighting with boxing gloves and pugilistic rules.....and start getting a cage fighter mentality. Doesn't have to be forever, but we see the enemy...and the enemy is us I think. What do you think? Am I wrong? If so...why?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

3. What are you doing?

[ResIpsa]

9. Do you mean what am I doing personally?

I'm talking about it I guess. I hesitate doing that bc ...I'm surely not a perfect man. I can assure all of you I don't post to piss folks off. Honestly. Just spit-balling.

[roamer65]

5. The United States wont see the sestercenntenial in 2026.

It will have broken up by then.

[ResIpsa]

7. I sincerely hope not.

We need some new thinking bc the old thinking is killing us. I can't see many more pleading parents from shootings. I have a hard time accepting the news everyday. We are such a kind country. dt (I refuse to capitalize it) is ripping us apart. That Mom begging dt to DO something...That poor lady. dt is is inept. WE are the captains of our cruise ship. dt has made it pretty clear he doesn't care. The Ruskies own the NRA and the gun narrative. What can we do? Go Fund Me's to generate cash to out pay the GOP even more? Like highest bidder idea? Thats why they hide from scrutiny. It's all money. If each of us put 20.00 bucks in a go fund fund me...we could buy the rotten bastards back. YOU KNOW that's why they're selling us out. The Black Bag Go Fund Me page. Just spit balling. Not trying to get anyone scalping me.

[sprinkleeninow]

16. 'Obama/Steward/Biblical Principle' eom

[BigmanPigman]

19. Things are SLOWLY falling into place...Bannon answered ALl

of Mueller's questions, Gates is on the verge of flipping (Manafort could follow), Schneiderman will nail them in NY in case Mueller doesn't or the fucking moron gets pardoned. We don't have "revolutions" like in the 1770s or a revolution in spirit like the 60s, but now we have the Resistance. I am impatient too and want this to stop and be corrected ASAP since I am not likely going to live for 3 more years (my goal is to last long enough to see these bastards rot in jail penniless). I know...it IS frustrating!

[scarletlib]

24. I would like to think this is true but:

The Republicans were going to do to her what they did to Obama and worse. They were going to stonewall all of her initiatives and legislative proposals. They were going to continue to relentlessly investigate her for Benghazi and E-Mails. Most likely they were going to try to impeach her as soon as they could.

The best she would have been able to do is use executive orders where she could and veto the worst of the legislation that was sent to her.

[nolabels]

41. The second I heard they installed 45 I knew we were in for interesting times

Just guessing it's that proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Chinese word for "crisis" - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_%22crisis%22
The Chinese word for "crisis" (simplified Chinese: 危机; traditional Chinese: 危機; pinyin: wēijī is frequently invoked in Western motivational speaking as being composed of two Chinese characters respectively signifying "danger" and "opportunity

[jalan48]

44. With the Republican's controlling the House and Senate it would have been more gridlock with

non-stop Benghazi/Email investigations. Hopefully the silver ling in all of this is that we can win back the House and Senate and actually be capable of doing the things you mention.

[Blue_Tires]

45. Who knew a homebrewed e-mail server would

literally change the course of world history?