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PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:57 AM Feb 2018

Karen McDougal's hypocrisy

As anyone who has watched Trump over the last 30 years knows, he cheats on his wives. He has publicly bragged about his infidelities for years, in print, on television and on radio. No big deal and I don't care since it's public knowledge and I don't look to Donald Trump for morality.

The new story in the New Yorker featuring Playboy model Karen McDougal is hardly surprising. It's only interesting facet comes from the details of how Trump covered for his behavior. Again, no big deal because he wasn't a public servant at the time so I don't care.

But something in the story bothers me. In her 8-page, handwritten letter, Ms. McDougal wrote:

We talked for a couple hours – then, it was “ON”! We got naked + had sex.” As McDougal was getting dressed to leave, Trump did something that surprised her. “He offered me money,” she wrote. “I looked at him (+ felt sad) + said, ‘No thanks - I’m not ‘that girl.’ I slept w/you because I like you - NOT for money’ - He told me ‘you are special.’


Okay, she wouldn't accept money from Trump for the sex they shared because she's "not 'that girl.'" What? She just had an adulterous affair with a man she knew to be married. So she's 'not that girl,' she's 'this girl.'

The fluidity of her morality is striking.

One other point: Ms. McDougal apparently sold her story to the National Enquirer for $150,000. It was an exclusive deal and restricted her ability to speak with other media outlets.

She did say, however, that she regretted signing the contract. “It took my rights away...”


The National Enquirer didn't take away her rights; she sold them. This kind of exclusive deal would nearly always have limitations on her. It's why they paid the money! Apparently, their agreement had a term limit and the media company has been trying to extend the contract. Is she negotiating through the media?

So, I'm not sure I see how she is a victim. In fact, since she could have come forward at anytime, that she's done so now is suspect.

Ultimately, I really don't care much about any of this. The dangers that Trump presents are far more important than his sex life. By the way, I'm certain Melania must be thrilled to hear these stories. I doubt that this latest story is a revelation to her but if it makes Trump's home life uncomfortable, I'm all for it!

As I wrote above, none of this story is particularly surprising for anyone who has looked at Trump's life. It also proves the point that everyone who comes into contact with Trump is either creepy to begin with or they get soiled.
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Karen McDougal's hypocrisy (Original Post) PJMcK Feb 2018 OP
I certainly am not going to defend her, but I will point out that it is not her who is the adulterer hlthe2b Feb 2018 #1
I completely agree about our society PJMcK Feb 2018 #7
If all this stuff is leaking out on trump just think of what Mueller will come up with after his... brush Feb 2018 #28
Struck by comment indicating he expects to pay for sex. No relationship with women who care for him? bobbieinok Feb 2018 #2
Yeah, he's scum PJMcK Feb 2018 #9
I hope they put the poor woman on sucide watch. The whole world knows she bedded Trumpy. FSogol Feb 2018 #3
the morality of sex with a married man is rather different from the morality of prostitution. unblock Feb 2018 #4
There are different elements of morality in this story PJMcK Feb 2018 #13
i'm not holding her up as a paragon of virtue. unblock Feb 2018 #18
Morality and legality are different things, aren't they? PJMcK Feb 2018 #19
no doubt about that, donnie is scum. unblock Feb 2018 #20
Sounds more judgy on your part than anything else Blue_Adept Feb 2018 #5
I'm not "judgy" PJMcK Feb 2018 #6
Who is offering her sympathy? That's not even in play with this. Blue_Adept Feb 2018 #11
She's the one looking for sympathy PJMcK Feb 2018 #14
Many women compartmentalize having an affair malaise Feb 2018 #8
Because they're completely separate things. Blue_Adept Feb 2018 #12
Precisely n/t malaise Feb 2018 #21
Agreed PJMcK Feb 2018 #15
No malaise Feb 2018 #22
He needs to pay for it..... dawnie51 Feb 2018 #10
Everything with Trump is a zero-sum transaction PJMcK Feb 2018 #17
Both were wrong, but that's their problem, not mine. IluvPitties Feb 2018 #16
Everything has a price tag. Some are better hidden than others. nt Snotcicles Feb 2018 #23
I couldn't have said it better PJMcK Feb 2018 #24
Watch Franklin Graham give Trump another Mulligan. sarcasmo Feb 2018 #25
Reminds me of a joke MosheFeingold Feb 2018 #26
Good one PJMcK Feb 2018 #30
1. Fucking a married guy is not the same as prostitution. DetlefK Feb 2018 #27
I don't think I equated the two PJMcK Feb 2018 #32
' I slept w/you because I like you - NOT for money skypilot Feb 2018 #29
She liked his money and celebrity PJMcK Feb 2018 #31
A LOT. skypilot Feb 2018 #33
I've lost a lot of respect for porn stars. nt Buzz cook Feb 2018 #34

hlthe2b

(102,980 posts)
1. I certainly am not going to defend her, but I will point out that it is not her who is the adulterer
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:03 PM
Feb 2018

unless I missed that she was also married.

Again, I believe in the "sisterhood" and would never personally become involved with a married man. But, it seems like society always goes after the woman in these situations. It was Trump who was married, committing the adultery.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
7. I completely agree about our society
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:22 PM
Feb 2018

The affair was adulterous by definition: at least one party was in a marriage. She knew he had a wife.

In this case, however, how is society going after Ms. McDougal? It seems like she's crying the blues because she can't tell her story. But she-- and her lawyer-- made an exclusive deal for a lot of money. As I wrote, that's why she was paid.

Trump and his goon squad will deny everything, of course. Then later, when more details come out, they'll revise their story. It's part of their atrocious dishonest behavior.

brush

(54,513 posts)
28. If all this stuff is leaking out on trump just think of what Mueller will come up with after his...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:18 PM
Feb 2018

extensive investigation.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
9. Yeah, he's scum
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:24 PM
Feb 2018

Never in my life could I imagine pulling out my wallet after an evening of sex!

For Trump, it seems like it's part of his routine.

What a creep.

unblock

(52,872 posts)
4. the morality of sex with a married man is rather different from the morality of prostitution.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:09 PM
Feb 2018

never mind that the *criminality* of those two are very different.

i have zero problem with her drawing a line between the two things, and zero sympathy for the argument that someone who does one thing that's immoral has no basis for saying they won't do something else because it's immoral.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
13. There are different elements of morality in this story
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:31 PM
Feb 2018

To be clear, my first point is that she presents herself as not being a prostitute. That's respectable. At the same time, she continued an affair with a man she knew was married. I find that of questionable morality. You and I can agree to disagree on the spectrum of morality and the application of different standards.

However, she sold her story about having an affair with Trump. Can you see the thick, gray area this behavior inhabits? Trump didn't pay her for having sex but the National Enquirer paid her for telling her story of having sex with Trump. That her story was never published is irrelevant because when she accepted the money, she planned to tell her tale.

Once again, anyone in Trump's orbit gets smeared one way or another.

unblock

(52,872 posts)
18. i'm not holding her up as a paragon of virtue.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:43 PM
Feb 2018

but near as i can figure, everything she did is legal.

unless donnie's offer of money happened in certain counties in nevada, accepting it would have been illegal.


i really don't understand the notion that some sort of idea you have about moral consistency means you can't understand her drawing a line between legal and illegal behavior.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
19. Morality and legality are different things, aren't they?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:47 PM
Feb 2018

As I wrote to you above, unblock, we disagree on this.

But I'm sure you'll agree that Trump is disgusting. We never would have had this discussion about President Obama, would we?

unblock

(52,872 posts)
20. no doubt about that, donnie is scum.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:58 PM
Feb 2018

and the media is reprehensible for allowing his tenure to continue when they would have run any democrat out of town 99 scandals ago, yet they treat donnie's scandals like manna from heaven.

morality and legality are different; though still, adultery and prostitution are morally and ethically different acts. so why is it hard to see how someone might find it ok to do one but not ok to do the other.

i don't see the logic behind the idea that anyone who has sex with a married man must also be morally fine with accepting payment for that.

Blue_Adept

(6,417 posts)
5. Sounds more judgy on your part than anything else
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:13 PM
Feb 2018

There are plenty of open relationships where such things are accepted as well.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
6. I'm not "judgy"
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:18 PM
Feb 2018

I just don't see how she's deserving of sympathy. She was a knowing party to her circumstances.

As I wrote, however, this story is a bit late in being told.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
14. She's the one looking for sympathy
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:37 PM
Feb 2018

No one that I'm aware of is offering it to her.

This is from the article:

She did say, however, that she regretted signing the contract. “It took my rights away,” McDougal told me. “At this point I feel I can’t talk about anything without getting into trouble, because I don’t know what I’m allowed to talk about. I’m afraid to even mention his name.”

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
15. Agreed
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:41 PM
Feb 2018

An adulterous affair is from a different part of the spectrum of morality than prostitution.

But aren't they both on the "wrong" side?

Regardless, she sold her story for fame and fortune. Does that have any moral implications?

dawnie51

(959 posts)
10. He needs to pay for it.....
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:26 PM
Feb 2018

it settles something in his psyche. As soon as they become the wife, and no need to pay for it, he's not interested anymore. Time and again. The paying for it makes it "a deal?" or business transaction and thus exciting and wanted. This guy is a very sick person.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
17. Everything with Trump is a zero-sum transaction
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 12:43 PM
Feb 2018

Interestingly, and on a totally different subject, this transactional nature is why Paul Manafort worked for Trump's campaign for free. Manafort wanted Trump to view him as an equal, not as an employee.

Indeed, Trump is a very sick person.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
26. Reminds me of a joke
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:09 PM
Feb 2018

I think it is generally attributed to Winston Churchill. It sounds like him.

Winston was talking to a lady about infidelity of another, when he suddenly asked her, "Well would you sleep with me for a million pounds sterling?" He took out his checkbook and pen.

She stuttered for a moment and said, "Yes, I suppose I would."

He then replied, "How about 50 pounds sterling?"

Indigent, she sputtered, "What kind of woman do you think I am?!"

Winston smiled and said nicely, "Oh, we've established what kind of woman you are. We just haven't established the price."

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
30. Good one
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:27 PM
Feb 2018

When I wrote it, I knew I'd get flamed on this post. I was going to include that joke but wanted to limit my exposure to adverse comments.

Thanks for going there, MosheFeingold!

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
27. 1. Fucking a married guy is not the same as prostitution.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:12 PM
Feb 2018

2. She sold the story to the National Enquirer on the premise that the National Enquirer would publish the story for her. NE did not publish it and she was no longer allowed to publish it.

PJMcK

(22,166 posts)
32. I don't think I equated the two
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:29 PM
Feb 2018

I said that she was expressing a flexible set of morals.

If you can't see that, okay. We disagree. Nonetheless, enjoy your weekend, DetlefK.

skypilot

(8,866 posts)
29. ' I slept w/you because I like you - NOT for money
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 01:26 PM
Feb 2018

I pretty much stopped following this story altogether after I read THAT.

This sounds horrible but he would HAVE to pay me. There is no other reason I'd have been sleeping with him to begin with. What on earth did she find to like about him?

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