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Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:00 PM

Kirsten Gillibrand is about to have a bad week

Newsweek reveals the Al Franken hit squad was another electronic lynching...

"White nationalist provocateurs, a pair of fake news sites, an army of Twitter bots and other cyber tricks helped derail Democratic Senator Al Franken last year, new research shows."

http://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-trump-franken-mueller-twitter-810355

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Reply Kirsten Gillibrand is about to have a bad week (Original post)
flotsam Feb 2018 OP
rzemanfl Feb 2018 #1
janterry Feb 2018 #2
shraby Feb 2018 #4
janterry Feb 2018 #37
Hortensis Feb 2018 #47
wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #65
Progressive dog Feb 2018 #256
CentralMass Feb 2018 #3
shraby Feb 2018 #7
LakeArenal Feb 2018 #98
IthinkThereforeIAM Feb 2018 #118
Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2018 #140
LakeArenal Feb 2018 #142
Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2018 #156
bettyellen Feb 2018 #158
Motownman78 Feb 2018 #220
Squinch Feb 2018 #227
Squinch Feb 2018 #226
Maraya1969 Feb 2018 #253
regnaD kciN Feb 2018 #182
tavernier Feb 2018 #213
flying_wahini Feb 2018 #252
hurple Feb 2018 #5
shraby Feb 2018 #8
TheDebbieDee Feb 2018 #68
earthshine Feb 2018 #79
Squinch Feb 2018 #229
TheDebbieDee Feb 2018 #231
Squinch Feb 2018 #232
Squinch Feb 2018 #228
jrthin Feb 2018 #6
shraby Feb 2018 #10
ollie10 Feb 2018 #49
zentrum Feb 2018 #89
tblue37 Feb 2018 #138
leftstreet Feb 2018 #9
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #39
LakeArenal Feb 2018 #102
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #110
LakeArenal Feb 2018 #114
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #122
LakeArenal Feb 2018 #126
Heartstrings Feb 2018 #187
zentrum Feb 2018 #201
chuckstevens Feb 2018 #11
MBS Feb 2018 #32
lunamagica Feb 2018 #54
Raster Feb 2018 #67
lunasun Feb 2018 #203
lordsummerisle Feb 2018 #223
eissa Feb 2018 #12
brush Feb 2018 #20
CentralMass Feb 2018 #36
brush Feb 2018 #53
Control-Z Feb 2018 #169
brush Feb 2018 #172
Control-Z Feb 2018 #177
MBS Feb 2018 #42
brush Feb 2018 #60
MBS Feb 2018 #145
MBS Feb 2018 #34
pazzyanne Feb 2018 #66
harun Feb 2018 #249
LexVegas Feb 2018 #13
chuckstevens Feb 2018 #19
LexVegas Feb 2018 #33
chuckstevens Feb 2018 #35
LexVegas Feb 2018 #57
chuckstevens Feb 2018 #78
Raster Feb 2018 #81
LexVegas Feb 2018 #85
MrsCoffee Feb 2018 #123
chuckstevens Feb 2018 #127
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WhiteTara Feb 2018 #175
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Heartstrings Feb 2018 #188
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Historic NY Feb 2018 #24
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Hortensis Feb 2018 #28
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Post removed Feb 2018 #31
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jalan48 Feb 2018 #38
Gothmog Feb 2018 #44
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SHRED Feb 2018 #46
Bradshaw3 Feb 2018 #164
Progressive dog Feb 2018 #48
KPN Feb 2018 #64
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KPN Feb 2018 #162
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Blue_true Feb 2018 #99
KPN Feb 2018 #166
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KPN Feb 2018 #212
brush Feb 2018 #69
Progressive dog Feb 2018 #73
brush Feb 2018 #97
Progressive dog Feb 2018 #254
brush Feb 2018 #260
marieo1 Feb 2018 #51
lunamagica Feb 2018 #52
IronLionZion Feb 2018 #55
nolabels Feb 2018 #77
LovingA2andMI Feb 2018 #56
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #112
elmac Feb 2018 #58
rainin Feb 2018 #59
Blue_true Feb 2018 #103
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ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #206
joanbarnes Feb 2018 #61
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rzemanfl Feb 2018 #179
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eissa Feb 2018 #128
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Progressive dog Feb 2018 #257
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Renew Deal Feb 2018 #251
JHan Feb 2018 #264
NCTraveler Feb 2018 #268
LexVegas Feb 2018 #269

Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:01 PM

1. K&R.

Now I am waiting for someone to post that Newsweek is full of ads.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:02 PM

2. That's okay by me

n/t

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Response to janterry (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:04 PM

4. What do you mean? It's okay they found hanky panky in Franken's case or

they bulldozed Franken.

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Response to shraby (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:21 PM

37. that she's about to have a bad week

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Response to janterry (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:35 PM

47. :) Me too. But to be fair, it was a successful

Republican operation before she pushed herself onto the stage to try to capitalize on it.

By that point, though, Franken and his senate colleagues were all realizing that keeping sexual depravity a Republican-owned issue required cutting line. And as you'll recall all women senators, and then most of the men, joined in to use the situation to make as powerful a statement against sexual harassment as they could.

Such a shame putting the message across this way was necessary. But how often every day on this very forum do people complain, complain, complain that Democrats "aren't doing anything?" They want to see Democrats play acting at doing something in front of cameras dramatically enough that networks will put it on a TV screen for them. And, of course, that's the only way millions of others will have any idea anything's happening at all.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:53 PM

65. It was not necessary to sentence someone before

 

a hearing and investigation

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:03 PM

256. He was nut "sentenced"

without hearing or investigation. He chose to resign rather than have that hearing or investigation. He ran from his accusers.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:03 PM

3. She won't care.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:05 PM

7. She damn well better care.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:27 PM

98. She and her supporters will try to find some positive spin..

Maybe she should offer to resign.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #98)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:43 PM

118. +1


... eom.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #98)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:02 PM

140. She's a sitting Democratic senator.

Are we here at Democratic Underground supposed to support her?

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #140)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:05 PM

142. Oh, pull out that....

We at DU supported AL Franken. He was the most popular sitting Democratic Senator.. If you don't believe that, keep reading.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #142)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:28 PM

156. So one CAN criticize a Dem that we disagree with?

Just making sure I understand that. Because it seems like anyone that says Clinton didn't run the perfect campaign gets piled on by some of the same people piling on Gillibrand here with decrees that we need to support Dems.

You know...consistency. That's all I'm wondering about. Or at least the list of Dems we can criticize.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #156)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:35 PM

158. You know the rule about treating RW talking points? Thats the one.

 

People here smelled the RW all over the attacks- particularly from the primary accuser w RW media ties:

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #156)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:22 PM

220. Yes, we are allowed to disagree

 

with Democratic Reps as long as the criticism is true and valid. That is my understanding anyway.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #156)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:04 PM

227. Poor you. It's so difficult.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #142)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:03 PM

226. You know what? I liked Franken, and I'll be voting for Gillibrand when re-election comes.

You know why?

Because she's a Democrat. And we need to vote for every Democrat we can.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #98)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:59 PM

253. I think she should step down after her term. If she leaves now that is 1 less Dem

and we can't afford to loose any Dems.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:03 PM

182. You're right.

She'll just say it was the right thing to do, and that's all there is to it.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #182)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:38 PM

213. Except it wasnt.

And talking doesn’t make it so.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #213)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:05 PM

252. Exactly!

She lost her mojo when she stood against Franken in my book. Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for her but she lost any credibility when she piled on Franken.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:04 PM

5. Maybe...

She should resign...


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Response to hurple (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:06 PM

8. Maybe you should go to a more friendly site for your thoughts.

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Response to shraby (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:55 PM

68. I think hurple speaks for a lot of us here at DU!

 

Maybe it would be good for Sen Gillibrand to get a taste of the medicine she doled out to Sen Franken? I haven't forgotten how Sen Gillibrand took the gun that the republicans were using to shoot themselves in the foot over the Roy Moore issue and used that gun to shoot the Democratic party in the head!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #68)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:00 PM

79. +1 from me. Resignation might be a bit much, but it's how I feel. nt

 

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #68)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:06 PM

229. So that we can lose 2 sitting Democrats? That's brilliant.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #229)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:21 PM

231. I don't think Sen Gillibrand should resign but I think she should feel a lot of heat

 

for falling for BS and organizing to push another Dem from office. Sen Gillibrand got played and made Dem supporters look weak...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #231)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:23 PM

232. Yes she did. But I'm her constituent and I'll still vote for her.

Because of that D.

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Response to hurple (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:05 PM

228. Maybe - not.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:05 PM

6. Couldn't happen to a more sanctimonious person. nt

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Response to jrthin (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:06 PM

10. I'm sure when the smoke clears, she will try to right the wrong.

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Response to shraby (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:36 PM

49. but she didn't try to right the wrong....she wronged the right

 

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Response to shraby (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:13 PM

89. How?

By bringing back his Senator-ship?

And having the due process investigation he asked for?

It's too late.

She ruined him and harmed the party terribly. He was one of our best. Can never forgive her.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #89)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:01 PM

138. +1. nt

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:06 PM

9. Will she resign over this?

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:23 PM

39. Of course not. That would be insane.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:30 PM

102. Insane to railroad Franken....

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #102)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:35 PM

110. You are darn right...we could lose that seat. But there is no remedy that helps the Democratic Party

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #110)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:38 PM

114. Oh I don't know....

How about a sincere, Ooops my bad.

Personally, I think it would help the Democrats for them to say they were wrong. We learn from our mistakes and we move forward.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #114)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:46 PM

122. It just gives the GOP amuntion...what should every Senator admit they were wrong? The GOP would

love that and again...what is the point?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #122)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:52 PM

126. Wow, who sounds like a Republican now?

Yes truth and honor are weakness.

If you don't think the Goops have plenty of ammunition now, they just make up more anyway.


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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #126)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:44 PM

187. I think we Dems take the high road far too easily

And this is most certainly a case of going high when we should have at least stood our ground instead of offering up Franken as the sacrificial lamb at the GOP alter. And yes, we just gave them more food for fodder as to how easily we give up one of our best and brightest comrades.

An apology, of sorts, such as "I jumped the gun on this and regret it. Let's give Al the due process he deserves" might be a good start for gillabrand to restore some faith in her.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:42 PM

201. No. She wants to run...

…for President.

Hope the Democratic establishment understands that this would be terribly risky. Let's not again snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:06 PM

11. God this pissed me off!

 

If weren't for Al revealing that Sessions lied 3 times under oath, we never would have got Robert Mueller.

The charges were manufactured by Hannity and Stone and Gillibrand should have known better.

Yet Trump has real scandals with a porn star, a playmate, and likely more to follow and gets to keep ruining America.

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:19 PM

32. + 100 n/t

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:42 PM

54. + a million

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:54 PM

67. +1000

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:47 PM

203. ++++still pissed .It was all unraveling with Stone already in the picture when Gillibrand started

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #11)


Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:07 PM

12. How many of us were screaming about the bogus anonymous charges?

I'll repeat it ad nauseam: THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO MUELLER INVESTIGATION WITHOUT FRANKEN. We not only lost the strongest voice in the Senate, but we now have to defend a seat that was safe until at least 2020 in an increasingly purple state.

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Response to eissa (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:11 PM

20. Yep. Many of us here were amazed that Gillibrand was so gullible as to fall for that repug hit job..

and to be so arrogant and adamant about it too.

Thank you "Newsweek".

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Response to brush (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:21 PM

36. That was political opportunism.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:42 PM

53. Yes it was but she was so anxious to throw a possible competitor for 2020 under the bus...

her gullibility in falling for the repug hit job got the better of her.

Now thanks to "Newsweek" we don't have to worry about her trying to get the 2020 nomination.

Ambition yes, but that combined with gullibility is not a good combination for a presidential candidate.

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Response to brush (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:19 PM

169. I've seen Newsweek referenced more than once

in conjunction with Gillibrand and Franken but have no idea what it's about. Can you tell me what it's about or offer a link to the story?

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #169)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:30 PM

172. Here you go. "Newsweek" just outlined the extent of the repug hit job on Franken that Gillibrand..

fell foot, line and sinker for.

Hell, many posters right here on DU sniffed out first accuser Tweenden's account of her "photo" of Franken abusing her was fabricated, especially when Roger Stone's and Hannity's names were connected to the story's origination.

http://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-trump-franken-mueller-twitter-810355

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Response to brush (Reply #172)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:50 PM

177. Got it!

Thank you. I wonder if she plans to make any kind of statement, or apology.

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Response to brush (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:26 PM

42. Her arrogance and sanctimoniousness really lost me.

For a lot of the other senators who called for his resignation, the main consideration was political distraction. Granted that none of them deserve any "Profile in Courage" awards, to say the least.

But Gillibrand had to get on a moral high horse about it and lump his supposed transgressions (which amounted in my mind to tasteless comedy, at least in the case of Tweeden) with those of true perverts and predators. Her holier-than-thou and guilty-until-proven-innocent (without giving Franken a chance to do so), combined with what to me was obvious political opportunism on her part, lost me.

It really is a tragedy.

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Response to MBS (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:49 PM

60. The tragedy to me is we lost the voice who neutered Sessions and got us Mueller's probe.

We also now have to defend Franken's old seat in 2018 instead of 2020.

A silver lining to this cloud though is that this "Newsweek" expose should shelve Gillibrand's presidential chances.

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Response to brush (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:13 PM

145. Yes.

I really miss Franken in the senate. Even if we manage to keep a Democrat in his seat (by no means a given, of course), he was a forceful and intelligent presence, and not easily replaced. OK, irreplaceable.

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Response to eissa (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:20 PM

34. " " " n/t

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Response to eissa (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:54 PM

66. Amen to that a hundred fold!

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Response to eissa (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 11:59 AM

249. Most of us, most of us.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:07 PM

13. Bernie Sanders' is about to have another bad week...

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:10 PM

19. What does this have to do with the topic?

 

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:19 PM

33. He went after Franken too.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:21 PM

35. No one was talking about Sanders, but you turned it back to him.

 

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:46 PM

57. He will pay a price for going after Franken, right?

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:59 PM

78. I just find it interesting that of the 30 + Dems

 

who voted for Al to resign, you immediately tried to make this about Sanders.

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:01 PM

81. because this poster ALWAYS DOES

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:06 PM

85. ...

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:47 PM

123. As interesting as immediately making it about Gillibrand.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #123)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:53 PM

127. Wrong!

 

Gillibrand didn't care about the facts and rashly threw one of our better Democratic Senators under the bus! I let others decide on her motivation, but the fact remains she mishandled this badly.

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:55 PM

130. If she mishandled it badly, so did the rest of those who asked him to step down.

We are getting kind of sick of everything always being the woman's fault.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #130)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:57 PM

134. So, because I am mad Gilibrand was played by Republicans, I am anti-women?

 

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #134)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:58 PM

136. I am mad that Bernie was played by Republicans.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #136)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:43 PM

175. I'm mad that all the BoBs and Indies who wouldn't vote

were played by Russians/Republicons

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:20 PM

92. Sanders, like Gillibrand said that Franken should step aside.

Why do you conclude that Gillibrand is more culpable, assuming there was culpability? Your position wreaks of selective judging and is unworthy of what should be posted on this site, IMO.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:29 PM

101. +1

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:56 PM

132. Why can't you admit Gillibrand, this one time, was wrong?

 

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #132)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:14 PM

146. I pointed out that her longtime campaign against sexual abuse of women by superiors

or equals that are not brought to justice may have colored her response to Franken's issues.

Why can't you admit that Gillibrand was just ONE of over 30 democratic and Independent Senators that said Franken should step aside? Gillibrand didn't force those people to take that position, if you do make that claim, you are also saying that not one of those Senators could think for themselves on that particular issue.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #146)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:19 PM

148. Because she led the charge against Franken even thought it was an obvious rightwing hit job!

 

Would it not have been better to say IF THESE CHARGES are true, he should resign?

LeAnn Tweeden was coached by Sean Hannity and Roger Stone. Admit it: She was wrong to lead the charge against Franken!

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #148)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:36 PM

159. There were more than Tweeden.

One of the accusers was a staffer for a democratic legislator. Two others were activist democrats. I know that your next move will be to use the "but they chose to be annonymous" charge. I honestly don't realize why people that say they are for women's rights, against sexual abuse or violence against women, can' understand why some women who are victimized don't want their name to get out. Yes, maybe Tweeden was coached, I didn't witness the events and she is an activist rightwinger, but if you claim that the women who chose to remain annonymous are possibly lying or are part of a plot because they chose to remain annonymous, then the other side of that claim is that Tweeden and the religious nut from Minnesota that also made a claim against Franken are telling the truth because they gave their names and put a face to their claims.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #159)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:26 PM

222. But the second he resigned

 

there were no more. If he was such a Serial-harasser, wouldn't it make sense for more "victims" to be out there?

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Response to Motownman78 (Reply #222)

Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:41 PM

263. Why should they come forward.

If what they hoped to see happen by coming forward had happened, why should they be required to come forward?

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #159)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 03:40 AM

245. no, all those that gave their names were repubs except one at the end that said he squeezed her

waist

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #132)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:18 AM

244. Because she wasn't wrong

 

8 women. Not one. Franken apologized for his behavior. Apparently he was in on the conspiracy against him.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:09 PM

144. Omg the republican deflection of "what aboutism"

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #144)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:21 PM

149. Aboutism is saying that one of more than 30 Senators was responsible for a group decision.

IMO, such a view is both foolish and clueless. In looking at Gillibrand and any other democrat, I look at their entire body of work and when they have hot button issues, I try to understand the basis for their positions. Given Gillibrand's longtime views, sexual abuse or even allegations of sexual abuse by those in power likely makes her skin crawl and could explain why her tendency would be to react forcefully.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #149)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:09 PM

161. One should avoid calling anyone's opinion Foolish or clueless..

For me you just lost the argument. Have a good day.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #161)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:16 PM

167. The claim was made with a basis.

Fact, there are foolish and clueless opinions, to not call them what they are would be equally foolish.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #167)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:49 PM

188. Not true

To call someone out is negative....we have enough negativity to overcome.

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Response to chuckstevens (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:54 PM

129. No, we're talking about Franken and bogus charges. And those who piled on.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:54 PM

189. BS went after Franken, too? I was

on a 5 month news blackout then.. I missed the whole sordid mess.

Thanks, Lex

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:57 PM

71. Sanders didn't anywhere near go after Al like Gilibrand did...

...she was the ringleader that led the Franken lynching party.

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Response to Raster (Reply #71)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:33 PM

105. Schumer was likely ringleader. Both my senators...

 

...don’t like either.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:12 PM

88. No Hes Not. White Male Privilege

Only women get any blowback.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #88)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:55 PM

131. Exactly.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #13)


Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:07 PM

14. I didn't believe Tweeden from day 1. The other accusations concerned me, but as I said at the time

 

let's let the investigation play out. Let's figure out what is really going on here.

Now it's too late.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:29 PM

100. FBI investigation might find rubles

Were basic background checks done?

FBI investigation might have turned up all kinds of Russian meddling. Did some Russian set up a bank account in Cyprus, pour rubles into it, and put said account in the name of an accuser or 2?

There's other ways they could have been paid off.

And my vote in 2018 will get stolen again, due to grand old Putin party rat fu#king. And the blackmailing.

They'll do it again, of course they will. And a seat will flip to fascist in my state.

Plus there's the part about Franken being innocent.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:08 PM

15. K&R

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:08 PM

16. Franken has every right to run again for his seat!

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Response to shraby (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:18 PM

30. +1

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:08 PM

17. Her leading the charge against Franken

certainly appeared opportunistic on her part. In that light, this certainly isn't helpful to her aspirations.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:09 PM

18. Over 30 senators called on Franken to resign

 


And in the end it was his choice to do so. No one held a gun to his head.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:16 PM

25. Well when 32 of 49 of your total co-workers and "friends" form a lynch mob

I think it's fair to say they influenced your decision...

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Response to flotsam (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:28 PM

43. So should we make everyone 'pay' or maybe let it go and move on to 18 and 20.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:33 PM

106. If Schumer or the other men or women

wants to double down so publically on the decision to railroad Franken, you will see that it's not just Gilli.

You just want to believe it's only her.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #106)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:34 PM

107. I do see that...she is being persecuted...and I was enraged at what happened to Franken...but

it is over.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #107)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:35 PM

111. Just cuz you say so doesn't make it so.

It's not over. Or did you not read any of these responses?

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #111)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:45 PM

121. So what do you want? What should happen? Franken is gone...that is done...now what? Keep fighting

about it forever? Remember the Alamo becomes Remember Franken? Too what end? My Senator ...Sherrod Brown asked for Franken to resign also. Is he any less culpable than Gillibrand? I don't see a point to this.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #121)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:03 PM

141. No, I have to repeat.... Sherrod Brown, also with political ambition...

Should issue a statement saying the group made a severe miscalculation, misinformed decision, a political error, whatever and say WE MADE A MISTAKE REMOVING AL FRANKEN....

I know it hurts you all to be wrong. But it's the right thing to do. Remember that? The right thing to do..

Political Correctness be damned.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:27 PM

236. They should pay

by keeping out of the presidential primaries. Make room for those who are NOT useful idiots.

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Response to wellst0nev0ter (Reply #236)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:48 AM

246. You don't have to vote for anyone who chooses to run, but it is not your choice. I don't

want Sen. Sanders to run...do I have the right to say he can't? No and neither do you.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #246)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:06 PM

258. They'll just take votes away from good candidates

the useful idiots should stay out.

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Response to wellst0nev0ter (Reply #258)

Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:01 PM

262. People you consider useful idiots might appeal to others....it is not our choice who runs. Those

who fail to garner sufficient support usually drop out early on.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:57 PM

72. Issuing a statement is not

 

A lynch mob. In the end it was his choice to resign.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:04 PM

83. During one of his final moments in the Senate, he did stand and said something about how hard it

 

is to be around colleagues who "can't stand to be around him."

And I think that's what pushed him to resign.

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Response to earthshine (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:09 PM

195. The other kids dont like me

 

Sounds more like high school than a lynch mob.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #195)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:18 PM

218. Except that it's adults all above 40. Lynch mob.

 

As a Bernie supporter, I was quite disappointed to see him on the list.

However, I support Bernie based on policy, not his sparkling personality.

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Response to earthshine (Reply #218)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:30 PM

238. Not a lynch mob

 

No one was murdered.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #238)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:47 PM

240. I can see from the rest of this thread that you like to get the last word.

 

Have at it. (yawn)

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:34 PM

109. You say not. Seems others disagree..

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:38 PM

50. and it was guillibrand who was one of the biggest leaders and most sanctimonious

 

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:59 PM

76. Depends on your definition of sanctimonious

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #76)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:20 PM

184. I will go with Webster's

 

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:03 PM

82. Just a couple of weeks ago

she was on "The View" where she was asked about the Al Franken thing. She is just as adamant as she was the first day she went after him and did not back down one iota. I don't believe she learned anything from this fiasco. I truly hope the others who went after him have! We cannot continue to throw our best and brightest under the bus when the fight ahead of us is so dire.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #82)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:07 PM

194. Best and brightest?

 

Sounds more like a cult of personality around a celebrity politician.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #194)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:46 PM

202. Your comment is noted,

but not sure what the question is. Minnesota elected him and we know him as a Senator. I did not watch SNL or whatever he was in during his comedic career. He did a wonderful job for Minnesota until he was "bushwacked" by his own party. Now we are facing the strong possibility of the loss of his seat to a Republican. Minnesota is a purple state, not a blue state, and many of us are sick to our stomach over what the election this year may bring. Thanks for your concern.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #202)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:01 PM

207. How do you define wonderful

 

Vs the job other senators are doing?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #207)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:12 PM

217. I don't have to

because he was my senator and the others are not. Some of those are not on my "good" list right now, but I don't have to vote for them. I'm now going to treat you like I treat my right wing sister. If you want to continue this "discussion", you are on your own.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #217)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:29 PM

237. So you dont have an answer

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #194)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:48 PM

204. You're talking about Gillibrand's cult of personality, right?

Oh no, you meant Franken? The duly elected Senator Al Franken, who was smart, bright and a great effective Senator? Yeah, all personality, no substance at all... (sarcasm thingie, here)





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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:53 PM

63. Because she led it

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Response to JI7 (Reply #63)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:58 PM

74. Still his choice to resign.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:05 PM

84. Blumenthal from CT also said Franken did the right thing, and he returned any money raised by him

 

http://www.courant.com/politics/capitol-watch/hc-pol-al-franken-blumenthal-resign-20171207-story.html

Bill Nelson of Florida also said he should resign

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2017/12/06/bill-nelson-quiet-as-democrats-increasingly-call-on-franken-to-resign/

Tim Kaine also told him to resign

https://www.kaine.senate.gov/press-releases/kaine-statement-on-senator-frankens-resignation

Mark Warner basically the same

https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?id=0F418819-EC1A-4177-8562-16361AF1B859



Rhode island Sens. Reed, Whitehouse call on Sen. Franken to resign

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-bc-ri--sexual-misconduct-franken-rhode-island-20171206-story.html


Both Maryland senators, Chris Van Hollen and Ben Cardin went the Blumenthal route

https://www.cardin.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/cardin-statement-on-senator-frankens-resignation


Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) and Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii) were on the Ethics committee and could not comment.

Bob Menendez refused to say anything, probably was in his best interests to not comment on anything ethics-related as he was, at the time involved in a federal corruption trial (since cleared, yay!)

Catherine Cortez Masto said he should be held accountable and he did the right thing

https://www.cortezmasto.senate.gov/news/press-releases/cortez-masto-statement-on-resignation-of-senator-al-franken


Amy Klobuchar revealed she told Frnaken to resign in private

https://www.twincities.com/2017/12/07/amy-klobuchar-mark-dayton-others-react-to-al-franken-resignation-announcement/


so the ONLY Dem who actually stood up for Franken was

Joe Manchin said he should NOT have resigned

I guess so many detest Kirsten Gillibrand was the first Democratic Senator to call on him to resign, but is was almost a unanimous pile-on in the end, there is zero chance Gillibrand is THAT powerful

she also was the ONLY Democratic Senator to vote against ALL of Trump's horrid nominations

I think Franken got COMPLETELY railroaded, but certainly I do not hold Gillibrand as public enemy number one

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Response to Exotica (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:16 PM

196. To be fair

 

I think the accusations against Franken were BS and wish he didn’t resign. But he was rapidly becoming a political liability for the party and the ongoing demonization of Gillibrand by some completely out of line.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #196)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:37 PM

199. I also think a lot of the anti Gillibrand animus is also due to

 

Bill Clinton Should Have Resigned Over Lewinsky Affair, Kirsten Gillibrand Says

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/us/politics/gillibrand-bill-clinton-sexual-misconduct.html?_r=0

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Response to Exotica (Reply #199)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:05 PM

209. Oddly some of the same people

 

who are so outraged at Gillibrand were Sanders and Stein supporters. How strange.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #209)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:19 PM

211. this OP explains the theory of non-linear warfare and how the Russians perfected it

 

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210257721

from one of my replies to it

it is all about creating a fog of war environment without actual kinetic weapons being used

You churn up all the inherent pre-existing divisions within a society and get them to turn on each other. The indictment was just the tip of the iceberg.................

snip


That all said, in nonlinear warfare, you absolutely COUNT on the secondary, tertiary reactions as well. Look at how you now have internal Democratic infighting yet again over Bernie with many saying (via implication) that he could possibly be an unwitting or even willing Russian agent (I am in NO way a Sanders fangirl, but until I see absolute evidence I will not go to the level of assailing him as a Russia agent). Look at how much outright disruption that Putin got for a couple million dollars (versus the billions spent by actual American entities in a post-Citizens United world). It is all designed to tear the American political ecosphere apart more than it already is. I fear it will just keep on increasing, to the great detriment of social democracy in the US.


snip

finally

this 30 or 32 Dems saying Franken should resign is far too low a number

the ONLY Democratic Senator who said outright that Franken should NOT resign was Joe Manchin, 4 others ( 3 of them were on the Ethics committee and could not comment) said nothing either way

it was basically almost a unanimous pile on

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10256987





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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:27 PM

96. Exactly. nt

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:38 PM

115. Looks like

A good ol' circular firing squad - perfected by the democrats over the decades!

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:30 PM

157. She led the charge and was the loudest in her sanctimony...

 

..and she has a track record of political opportunism going back well before this instance that many of the others do not have against them.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #157)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:19 PM

197. Political Opportunism??

 

I remember another female Senator from NY who was accused of that. How did demonizing her for years work out in the end?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #197)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:27 PM

198. Whatever...

 

...guilting people into liking someone they may not have liked for any number of legitimate reasons didn't exactly work out so well for us either.

We have a good bench of candidates, male and female. Gillibrand is not one of them.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #198)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:58 PM

205. Not guilting into liking.

 

Guilting into not demonizing without proof.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:26 PM

186. A little nitpicking---Sanders is not a Democrat, at least this week.

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Response to mikehiggins (Reply #186)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:06 PM

210. Good point nt

 

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:12 PM

21. She wasn't influenced by this.

 

The thought she was is ignorant in itself.

Why just Gillibrand? I don't see her named mentioned once at your link. Transparent. This is an outright sexist attack on a Democrat. A damn good Democrat. It is the direction Russian bots are often taking.

What you are doing is hoping she will have a bad week. Sorry about that.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:12 PM

22. Newsweek fires editor-in-chief, deputy editor and three reporters..........

Newsweek fires editor-in-chief, deputy editor and three reporters after they publish stories about suspected fraud at the magazine's parent company
Editor Bob Roe, deputy editor Ken Li and reporters Celeste Katz and Josh Saul, as well as Josh Keefe, a reporter for IBT, were all fired on Monday
Katz, Saul and Keefe had all been writing about a probe into suspected financial fraud at the magazine's parent company, edited by Roe and Li
'This whole entire staff feels it's clearly retaliatory,' a source said
Staff at International Business Times also report that they were not paid Monday
Last month, the Manhattan district attorney raided the Newsweek offices, removing 18 computer servers, as part of the Manhattan DA probe
Investigation is into a possible 'money trail' between former Newsweek Media Group executives and Olivet University, a Christian college in California


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5355009/Newsweek-fires-staff-negative-stories-owner.html#ixzz57ZiJ1x4N

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Response to nolabels (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:06 PM

143. And...?

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #143)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:45 PM

160. A Top News Editor Was Fired After Sexual Harassment Allegations

A Top News Editor Was Fired After Sexual Harassment Allegations — Only To Land As An Executive In The Same Industry
Dayan Candappa, who was accused of sexually harassing his subordinate at Reuters for months, has been placed on leave by Newsweek pending an investigation.

Originally posted on January 29, 2018, at 11:43 a.m.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalyn/newsweek-media-group

Newsweek Media Group accused of advertising fraud
https://www.axios.com/report-newsweek-ibt-alleged-fraud-online-traffic-6151e400-f50f-4438-ac4f-a0dac7982082.html

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Response to nolabels (Reply #160)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:10 PM

216. What specifically has that got do with this story?

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #216)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:39 PM

225. The Rise of the Right-Wing Media Machine

MARCH 1995

The Rise of the Right-Wing Media Machine
ROBERT PARRY

In 1970, angered by critical reporting on the Vietnam War, President Nixon told his men what needed to be done. Nixon was “pushing again on [his] project of building OUR establishment in [the] press,” his chief of staff H.R. Haldeman wrote (Haldeman Diaries, 9/12/70).

It was a theme that Nixon would repeat often. The president was convinced that “the press and TV don’t change their attitude and approach unless you hurt them,” Haldeman recorded on May 29, 1971. As dozens of Haldeman diary entries make perfectly clear, Nixon was never one to miss a chance to “screw” his “enemies” in the media. “The only way we can fight the whole press problem, Nixon feels, is through the [Charles] Colson operation, the nutcutters, forcing our news and in a brutal vicious attack on the opposition,” Haldeman (4/21/72) wrote.

Yet even Nixon, the grand strategist, could never have guessed how well his plans would have worked out a quarter century later—and how much of his chip-on-the-shoulder paranoia would still resonate today in a powerful conservative press establishment.

In the 25 years since Nixon started “pushing” this project, the conservatives have constructed a truly intimidating media machine. It ranges from nationwide radio talk shows by Rush Limbaugh and scores of Limbaugh-wannabes, to dozens of attack magazines, newspapers, newsletters and right-wing opinion columns, to national cable television networks propagating hard-line conservative values and viewpoints, to documentary producers who specialize in slick character assassination, to mega-buck publishing houses that add footnotes to white-supremacist theories anti a veneer of respectability to journalistic fabrications, and even to narrowly focused organizations that exist simply to hurt the surviving mainstream journalists who still won’t toe the line.

https://fair.org/extra/the-rise-of-the-right-wing-media-machine/

I try to understand where the money is coming from to fund the story before I try to understand the story

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Response to nolabels (Reply #225)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:23 PM

234. So it has nothing to do with this particular story. Got it.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #234)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:03 AM

243. I don't think this was ever a story of much to begin with

Most everybody who wasn't hiding under a rock and that came here once or twice a week knew it was a right-wing hit job that had been placed on Senator Al Franken. Some people just wanted to push the coals around a little to see if they could start another fire. Mostly it was never going to work and a lot of people were hip to what it was really about.

Today's interjection of blather just another blurb of trivial or inconsequential news about trolls and how they work in the internet landscape. They have been coming here for the last fifteen or sixteen years if you haven't noticed. Those trolls think of us the same way those crabs in the above post think about us. They would like us to be feeble and weak just like them, they would like nothing better than to see us grovel in the dirt even it means them getting dirty (as they see it) while mixing it up with the rest of us. They might even have a hard time figuring out why we have a purpose and they don't.

You might also notice they get like a swarm of locusts here when things start breaking bad for them.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:15 PM

23. Ok

I get that there might have been bots feigning outrage over Franken and his alleged misconduct but how much did that influence Gillibrand/Senate Democrats? I agree that they overreacted and tried to let things blow over but how much did the bots influence the situation?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:34 PM

108. Falls into the "we'll never know" category unfortunately.

Those bots primarily influenced their constituents, who in turn made phone calls and send emails as to their opinion on Sen. Franken's situation.

Same as with the 2016 general election. There's no way to "meter" how much those Russian ads influenced people, although common sense says they probably had quite an impact considering the massiveness of the social media campaign.

Very deceptive practices, which Russia is top dog at doing that around the globe. It's time to implement the sanctions ASAP.

...............

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:02 PM

139. I agree

it's ultimately more concerning the fact that it was happening rather than the amount of impact it actually had.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:16 PM

24. Fine.....

just remember she was also a big gun panderer also. Her sails go where the wind is blowing.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:17 PM

26. Why did Franken step down? Even my right wing friends thought that was overblown. nt

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:58 PM

192. my guess

he didn't want his family to have to go through it and who would want to stay around people you thought were friends and then stabbed you in the back?

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:17 PM

27. Good. (nt)

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:17 PM

28. That's fine with me. She's masquerading as more liberal

than she is and is way too...opportunistic for my taste. It's the masquerade I mind far more than some conservative leanings. We need more honesty and integrity in our reps, less attention-grabbing.

As for Franken, who did NOT know the attacks on him were engineered by the right? it was political assassination from beginning to end.

But public opinion is the hugest political force of all, and when it was turned against him it couldn't be ignored. i just hope those who were carried away are learning something critically important from all these manipulations: the need for a lot less reaction and a lot more critical thinking.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:18 PM

29. She damaged the metoo movement by organizing her circular firing squad

Franken was a powerful force for women in the Senate. He was a huge thorn in the side of Trump and the Republicans.

Gillibrand played right into their hands. And Minnesota will have a new Republican Senator next year as a result.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:09 PM

87. Sad,

but I fear you are right.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:18 PM

90. It's not clear that Minnesota will have a Republican senator.

It is clear, however, the Al Franken was unfairly attacked.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:26 PM

40. The Free Beacon is a conservative site, of course they will attack a Democrat. n/t

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Response to Post removed (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:26 PM

41. Hypocrisy and political opportunism are terms that come to mind.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:22 PM

38. Damn, I may need to go have a cigarette.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:30 PM

44. Russian trolls are very effective

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:33 PM

45. Not surprised by any means. Trump feared Franken, as he had the ability

to make fun of him and embarrass him like no other politician would.

Franken was the anti-Trump.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:35 PM

46. I called the DNC, Feinstein and Harris

 


I implored them not to railroad Franken.
I told them I have lived through the ACORN and Planned Parenthood debacles and I am pissed.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:12 PM

164. The ACORN hitjob was truly despicable

I had forgotten about that like most Dems. A small group that wasn't even that big a threat to the oligarchs but it was for the working poor so of course it had be smashed.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:36 PM

48. Kirsten Gillibrand is a Democrat

and is still an elected US Senator. She had nothing to do with Russians and trying to tie her to it, is an incredibly nasty, dishonest thing to do. The Russians are getting help from strange places, but Gillibrand isn't one of them.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:53 PM

64. She drank the kook-aid then

opportunistically pounced and led the charge. I'm not into self- promoting opportunists as leaders right now. She can fade away now.

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Response to KPN (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:55 PM

70. Franken "drank the kool-aid"

He apparently believed that he should resign.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:10 PM

162. Dunno bout that. But, yeah, some folks

are a bit too hard on/ hold themselves to unreasonably high standards, and take too much personal responsibility sometimes. I suspect that was the case with Al.

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Response to KPN (Reply #162)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:01 PM

255. The one thing everyone should be able to agree on

is that Al Franken made the decision to resign. Whether his feeling were hurt by Democrats opposing him or he has such high standards that he feels guilt about his actions--it was his decision and he is responsible for it.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #255)

Wed Feb 21, 2018, 06:46 AM

261. That view minimizes the emotional

dynamics involved in my view. Being drummed out of the club almost certainly creates stresses that might cause most well balanced persons to question whether it is all worth the emotional costs. That's a real life dynamic that likely hits those with higher integrity hardest. ... I understand your viewpoint but feel it's an over-simplification. In that light, I can't personally excuse Gillibrand.

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Response to KPN (Reply #261)

Thu Feb 22, 2018, 11:30 AM

266. Being drummed out of the club

didn't happen without a reason. Those eight women who came forward might have had "emotional dynamics" about his actions, too. Those "well balanced persons" you support, sound slightly narcissistic to me.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #266)

Thu Feb 22, 2018, 01:04 PM

267. Can you name those eight women?

Your view re: this seems rather vigilante-like.

"Well balanced persons you (I) support"? Don't put words in my mouth. If you equate a "well balanced" person with a narcissist, well, ... that speaks for itself.

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Response to KPN (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:28 PM

99. She has been a longtime campaigner against abuse of women by those in power.

Did she come at Franken with blinders on? Maybe, but when one looks at her history on preventing abuse of women by those in power, one can understand how she could have taken a harder line than warranted. In the end Franken chose to resign for the good of the party. Had Franken not resigned, we would surely have a Senator Roy Moore from Alabama in the Senate passing ethical judgement on Franken as Al faced an ethics investigation.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #99)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:13 PM

166. Some assumptions and opinion there.

Which is fine, but my opinion is different and unaltered by KG's history. In fact, until she did this, I thought pretty highly of her. Not so much now however.

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Response to KPN (Reply #166)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:24 PM

171. My opinion of her went in the opposite direction.

I thought that she was ok. I wondered whether she would go to the mat to fight sexual abuse by those in power. It is easy for a democrat to ring up military brass for not properly handling claims of being abused coming from military women and men, it is a different story for a democrat to call out another democrat as indications of possible wrongdoing pile up. How Gillibrand is being treated by some now is a illustration of why women and politicians remain silent when they should speak out.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #171)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:26 PM

212. Call out?

That's very euphemistic of you.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:55 PM

69. I don't think she's connected to Russians, she stabbed Franken in the back on her own.

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Response to brush (Reply #69)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:58 PM

73. One of 30 Democratic Senators who stabbed Franken

in the back. They probably conspired to write his resignation after they convinced him he was guilty

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #73)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:27 PM

97. Yep, it was a lynch mob with Gillibrand the ring leader.

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Response to brush (Reply #97)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 05:45 PM

254. That's very Democratic of you

You've called the majority of Democrats in the Senate a lynch mob. You need to look up "lynch mob".

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #254)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:41 PM

260. You need to research Gillibrand's gullibility in falling for the reput hit job on Franken.

Last edited Wed Feb 21, 2018, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

She led the charge on a fellow Democrat in demanding that he resign before the investigation he asked for could happen.

And she recently doubled down on not holding her fire before a hearing by saying on "The View" that Franken was "entitled to a hearing but not to my silence".

What kind of crap is that?

She clearly sees it as all about herself and making it her signature issue to increase her profile for 2020, not whether Tweeden or any of the other so-called victims were truthful in their accusations, or for that matter, whether Franken was being jobbed or not, which btw, the recent "Newsweek" story just verified.

She deserves all the flack she getting.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:39 PM

51. minngal

Al Franken would make a wonderful president. I heard him on the floor of congress and he was a real fighter for our rights. Gillebrand wants to be president so what better way than to get rid of Al Franken. He was outspoken and a fighter. No real proof that Franken did anything wrong and she wouldn't even let it be investigated. I know exactly why she didn't want it investigated because then she knew there would be nothing to it!! The woman that accused Franken of wrong doing was a trump supporter!!

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:40 PM

52. K&R.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:43 PM

55. Some Democrats are crabs in a barrel

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:59 PM

77. Kind of a creepy metaphor but very cogent

In my view, it might be applicable for one or a few. The problem is even debating it theoretically can get your post deleted and possibly the poster banned.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:45 PM

56. So whose going to have a "Bad Week"...

Calling for Former Representative John Conyers Resignation -- as Al Franken was not the ONLY DEMOCRAT forced into resignation? #FYI

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #56)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:36 PM

112. Dumb...and now we are down a vote in the House.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:47 PM

58. Hmmmm, I'm wondering how many russian agents are working on progressive sites? nt

 

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:48 PM

59. And now "they" are going after Gillibrand and we are falling for it again.

I was unhappy about what she did, but if we can't see that this is how they work, we're being stupid.

Don't let them win.

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Response to rainin (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:31 PM

103. Yes. I see Hillary 2.0 is some of the attacks.

If they take down Gillibrand, then the next democrat up will be their next target. And all of this happens with the joyous approval of some that call themselves democrats and progressives. Some learned nothing from 2016.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #103)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:17 PM

147. I Don't Believe That Comparison Is Apt

The attacks on HRC were mostly fraudulent from the right, and half hearted on the left. (Except for the BoB crowd, who i find foolish.)

The criticism of Gillibrand extends to her most recent interview where she still refused to acknowledge she may have overreacted and made the reasons about her.

This would all go away if she just said, "I overreacted and i learned to take some time to really think of the long game." There was no such apologia required of HRC. She did not even do the things wrong of which she was accused.

Apples and oranges.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #147)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:27 PM

154. Gillibrand has been a longtime and passionate fighter against sexual abuse by those with power.

One of the unfortunate things about passion is the higher probability to react too strongly. When I judge her reaction, I look at her positions on the subject over a longtime, she has been consistent on the issue of sexual abuse by the powerful without consequences for the abusers.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #154)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:23 PM

170. Can't Disagree

That does not mitigate my opinion that comparing KG to HRC is apples and oranges.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #170)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:41 PM

174. I am seeing some of the same tactics used against KG that were used against HRC.

For example, Hillary was blamed for 90s era Three Strikes. The claim, accepted by many liberals, was that HRC was a key driver behind the legislation. I lived through the 90s, Black public officials were calling for attention to their communities to combat the crack cocaine epidemic. Hillary made statements, but she did not write one words of legislation, Bernie Sanders was a congressman at the time, voted to approve legislation and got a total pass from those that were attacking Hillary.

I have seen post attacking KG for being an attorney fighting to pushback anti smoking efforts. What the people don't say is that she was in her twenties or early thirties and was at best a junior staffer - she did what she was told, her option was to quit - there were not the landing places that exist today if she had quit on principle - look at what happened to the guy who presented data on cigarette companies purposely modulating nicotine in cigarette, he was virtually destroyed, even with a national spotlight. To expect a young upstate NY State attorney to buck her law firm and big tobacco during the early nineties is wrong thinking and unfair.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #174)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:59 PM

206. And Therein Lies The Difference

I disagree that the tactics you describe are the same, and I disagree that the complaints have equal validity
One set was BS, the other set is not!
That's OK. We don't have to agree on everything! We're not republicans

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:49 PM

61. Dumb move forcing Franken out. Perhaps her presidential ambitions felt threatened by Al's popularity

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:52 PM

62. Unlike many here, I trust Franken's judgement and he thought it best to resign.

The effort to slander Franken's legacy continues. He was a fighter but it appears some are trying to portray him as a wimp who got beat up by a girl.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:58 PM

75. Hardly. He was and is an honorable man. Honorable men tend to do what they perceive to be...

the honorable thing--even at their own detriment. I happen to believe Gillibrand showed poor judgement in her determination to recognize NO shades of gray, nor severity of misdeeds in sexual misbehavior, requirement of proof, nor gradation of consequences--and then decided to take a major role in starting the call for his resignation. That said, it could just as easily have been a male Senator who led the charge and I would feel quite similarly.

To equate THAT to "attempts to portray him as a wimp who got beat up by a girl" is PURE SEXIST CLAPTRAP.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #75)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:47 PM

125. There were many senators who called on Franken to resign

Up to and including the minority leader who has a heck of a lot more influence then others. The concentration on just one, who conveniently happens to be female, is, IMHO, PURE SEXIST CLAPTRAP.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #125)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:49 PM

176. "attempts to portray him as a wimp who got beat up by a girl" is a ridiculous sexist comment.

Your sexist language is the problem. We should be able to criticize male and female Senators similarly for similar actions, but for you, it is a need to deride based on gender. You would NEVER say such a thing if a Male Senator had taken the charge to pressure Franken out. Pure sexist drivel.

I believe Gillibrand's actions were inappropriate and a rush to judgement, just as her colleagues who eventually joined her, male and female. That is a professional critique that applies to both male and females.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #176)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:59 PM

181. Consider who you are responding to.

A long history of questionable comments.

I was on a jury earlier and had to enter The Gungeon. Guess who was there?

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #181)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:14 PM

183. Yeah... I just realized that myself.

Thanks for the reminder, though, demmiblue.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #183)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:39 PM

200. No problem, hlthe2b!

Some people here don't deserve consideration... they are better suited for Discussionist (ironically, they would probably be skewered there for other Ayn Rand type reasons).

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:00 PM

80. Good! She deserves a bunch of bad weeks IMO. nt

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Response to USALiberal (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:37 PM

113. I am a Democrat. I wish bad weeks on Republicans. We need to increase our numbers in the Senate.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #113)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:59 PM

137. She is better than any GOP idiot I agree. nt

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:08 PM

86. Fuck the Senate. Franken for President! I mean it. nt

 

Franken would easily be a good choice for me. He's not as far left as I would like, but unlike so many, he actually fights for his constituents and what he believes.

(But, curiously, he would not fight for himself here. I think many virtuous people can fight for others, but not so well for themselves.)

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Response to earthshine (Reply #86)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:40 PM

116. If it wasn't just too early....

100%. If he'd take her, Gilli can be in his Cabinet....

Meanwhile, run again Al. Move to NY and primary Gilli....

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Response to earthshine (Reply #86)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:56 PM

179. From reading Franken's books, I think he thought "Oh no, not this shit again" and left the

stage when his party turned on him.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:19 PM

91. I thought this was gonna be about the NRA

 

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:24 PM

93. Out of curiosity, what exactly are the towering achievements by Gillibrand the rocketed her into a

position of judge, jury, and executioner over fellow Democrats? Did she have many years more seniority than Franken or something?
I am asking honestly, no sarcasm, I really don't know the answer.

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #93)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:38 PM

239. She shunned David Paterson

The scandalized governor who appointed her Senator, securing her independent cred.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:25 PM

94. Why didn't you use Newsweek's headline instead of assigning blame to Gillibrand for the bots?

Why is Gillibrand responsible for right wing bots?

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:32 PM

104. A decent and honest person

would show contrition, apologize, and try to make amends.

Anyone bet that any of that will happen? Nope. Just the band of bots defending the results of senators falling for white nationalist scam. Lets what them show up. One ... two....

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:42 PM

117. I cant forgive her for derailing Al, and without any investigation.

Anti-democratic. It’s almost as if the #MeToo movement provided a bandwagon to take advantage of.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:44 PM

119. STOP... this is more attempts to sow discord.

 

There are so many russian trolls out there trying to have democrats hammer Gillibrand over the Franken thing.

The Right Wing Russian Trolls pushed the narrative that many americans bought into. Putting this on Gillibrand is exactly what the russian trolls want to happen.

Lets be more united. Avoid trashing Gillibrand.

Sure she might have had a lapse in judgement caused by the hugely expanding me too movement and the election of Right Wing Pedophile. But at the same time, one can say Franken had a lapse in judgement with his picture that caused him to be in the wrong place at the WRONG TIme.

Lets be united and fight back against attacking fellow democrats, progressives, etc.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #119)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:56 PM

133. Excellent point. We can disagree with Gillibrand, but let her not be the focus of anything. nt

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #119)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:58 PM

135. I ain't no Russian and I ain't no Troll

The seed of discord was sewn when a group of Senators had a huger lapse of judgement.

If you are so intent on us moving on, have at least one of those Senators come forward and say for whatever reason, they jumped to judgement and removed AL FRANKEN. and everyone of those Senators sign it.

If you think like some it is a weakness, I can't help you. I know we claim to be opposite of Repukes. Stand up to a mistake and hope for forgiveness.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #135)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:22 PM

151. Why do they have to say they were wrong for us all to move on? nt

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #151)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:11 PM

163. Because it's the right thing to do.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #163)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:13 PM

165. This doesn't bode well for an environment where we respect differences of opinion, even if...

... we don't agree.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #165)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:18 PM

168. Who said it was any opinion but my own.

I think admitting that there was a rush to judgement and for whatever reason, it was a mistake.

Saying it out loud would help me "get over IT".

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #165)

Wed Feb 21, 2018, 05:20 PM

265. It can't bode well

that people seeking Democratic leadership showed such horrible judgement and were either that gullible or that mendacious. I don't think it is a problem to suggest that they would show more leadership and judgement if they could summon the courage to admit they screwed up, to admit that they were duped. Then we would know that they can learn from their stupid mistakes.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #119)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:56 PM

191. lapse in judgement?

THEY DESTROYED HIS CAREER

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:45 PM

120. Can this come under the purvey of the Special Prosecutor?

By November 17, the trending of “Al Franken” was officially also a Russian intelligence operation, according to the Alliance for Securing Democracy, an organization tracking Russian social media accounts, based on a sample taken that day of 600 of the fake accounts.


If Russia is involved, then this should probably be investigated.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:47 PM

124. Well, duh!

Another example of the Democratic Party circular firing squad.

It was obvious to anyone with the most remote amount of cognitive thinking skills that something was rancid about the Franken smear campaign. And in D.C., I'm sure they had MUCH more information that was passed around through word-of-mouth than we in the general public were exposed to, so they likely knew something smelled really bad. So Gillibrand fell for the reichwing smear tactics. How wonderful!! We lost one great senator and might lose another (her) because of it. When will the Democrats learn to not fall victim to the reichwing crap attacks? Wake the f*#!k up!!!!!

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 02:54 PM

128. She better pray we don't lose Al's seat in November

If I were her, I'd be BEGGING Tom Perez to spend every last dollar we have to ensure that seat is saved, otherwise she's going to get even more backlash.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:22 PM

150. And she should nt

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:24 PM

152. We Democrats Need To Come To This Realization.

We have a great talent for shitting in our mess kits.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:26 PM

153. Gee that's a surprise.

 



I guess the rush to judgement got the better of her.

Common occurrence in lynch mobs, no doubt,

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 03:27 PM

155. gillebrand should resign and go home. noone wants someone who betrayed a fellow democrat

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:33 PM

173. We need the conversational equivalent of traffic calmers.

Here and there some municipalities are installing little islands in through streets that force drivers to make a small turn. This slows things down. What's the difference between a wedge issue and a plain old enthusiastic back and forth? I think it has something to do with targeting an individual when that individual hasn't behaved very much differently than 31 other individuals and persisting in the "conversation" for months and months.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:52 PM

178. Sanders seems to be having a worse week.

 

He was duped by Russians into calling for Franken to resign and was given the upper hand during the campaign by Russian entities.

But lets go after the woman who would wipe the floor with him in an election.

This has become extremely transparent.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #178)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:19 PM

219. She should probably get busy

She was at 1 percent in a poll posted here earlier this month. Early days but that is abysmal. Regardless of what one thinks of her handling of the Franken issue, it’s hard to argue she’s poised to “wipe the floor” with anyone at this stage.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #219)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:52 AM

247. I dont think it will have an impact on Sanders.

 

You make my point.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #247)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 11:24 AM

248. Oh I dont think it will either, to clarify

Gillibrand’s potential to “wipe the floor” with anyone is essentially non existent at this stage. She’s barely registering.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 04:58 PM

180. Her eyes are on the prize (2020)

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:22 PM

185. so what that has to do with anything. Franken admitted to and apologized for improper

 

touching and contact. I surely don't believe he should have quit and definitelly nothing for women to be pissed and ask for hime to resign....

this almost sounds like trolling Gillibrand

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #185)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:46 PM

214. Gillibrand is NOT THE VICTIM here

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 05:55 PM

190. GOOD

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:00 PM

193. Fake news!

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:46 PM

215. Why isn't this thread appearing on the homepage under "Greatest Threads"?

Strange.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:23 PM

221. What is the bad week that she's going to have?

Other than bloggers and political junkies, nobody is focusing on the Franken issue or what you presume to be Gillibrand's blame.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:27 PM

224. Good, she is such a tool

 

For falling for that Right-wing hit job.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:15 PM

230. Franken should run again for the seat

He was man enough to resign, although his "sins" we're really minor compared to many others.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:40 PM

233. Don't Eat Your Horse. Rule No. 1. Remember it, or suffer the consequences.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:25 PM

235. I knew this was a political hit job as soon as I saw it

The roger stone connection was apparent from the start ... I am sickened by what happened to Franken

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:50 PM

241. You all don't get it.

Or you refuse to accept it.

There is a progressive purge underway.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)


Response to flotsam (Original post)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:01 PM

250. I wont support any Dem in the primary that threw Al

Under the Bus. Whoever didn’t gets this vote. They always do that shit to other Dems

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Response to Thrill (Reply #250)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:09 PM

257. Poor Al,

When he realized that the other Democratic Senators weren't willing to cover for him, he ran away from the job that voters elected him to do. He jumped in front of the bus rather than face investigation.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #257)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:36 PM

259. They dont have to cover for him

They Just needed to shut the fuck up and let some real evidence come out. You would never see Republicans do that. Which is why they always win the messaging war

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:05 PM

251. If Gillibrand had a bad week, no one noticed.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Wed Feb 21, 2018, 05:10 PM

264. oh really?

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Thu Feb 22, 2018, 01:06 PM

268. Your wishful thinking has backfired and outed many as denominators and promoters of fake news.

 

Transparency. It's beautiful.

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Response to flotsam (Original post)

Thu Feb 22, 2018, 01:06 PM

269. Is it gonna drop soon????

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