Billy Graham did more harm to this planet than good

[malaise]

He used the bible to promote American Imperialism and facilitated the rise of the snake oil salesmen who merged religion and politics in America.

Adios.

[handmade34]

1. yes and biggest problem

was raising Franklin... he is an ass

[malaise]

2. Indeed

[dalton99a]

5. His piece of shit son is true evil.

[Bettie]

11. His son shows what kind of a man he was

Not a pretty picture. Not at all.

[Ohiogal]

3. I suppose the media

is going to inundate us with non stop reporting about what a great guy he was. ....

[malaise]

4. It's already started on Morning JoeScum

Ah well

[dalton99a]

7. Betcha Trump will order all flags to be flown at half-staff to honor The Great Christian.

[malaise]

8. Quite possible

He'll probably read 'two Corinthians' for his base

[mgardener]

41. Flags in my town

Are at half staff to honor the massacre in Florida.

[BigmanPigman]

74. They did that with Reagun...what a great prez.

A lot of what we are suffering through today was caused by him.

[malthaussen]

75. GMTA n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

73. Sadly Christopher Hitchens isn't around to se them straight anymore.

[disillusioned73]

116. LOL.. That is so good..

[AtheistCrusader]

121. I love watching Hannity splutter.

That was a golden moment in television. Almost as good as when John Stewart destroyed Hardball.

[onecent]

128. I loved Christopher Hitchens........

[stonecutter357]

6. K&R

[MoonRiver]

9. When I was about 10, my mother and aunt took my cousins and me to one of his revivals.

Neither one of them was very religious and rarely attended church. I think they thought it would be an interesting experience. What they didn't anticipate is how we kids would react to the sermon. We were mesmerized, and when people started going to him to be saved, we cried and begged to go down to his podium and be "saved" too. They became very embarrassed and refused to let us. Just goes to show the power of propaganda. I agree that he did much evil in this world.

[malaise]

13. You're so right

Years ago a young lady I know was invited to one of these 'foreign preacher tents' in the city. Her aunt who lived in the US was visiting and decided to take two of them. That night there was going to be a healing. So after lots of mumbo jumbo and 'pass the collection place' action, the preacher was going to make a blind man see - a man who was born blind.
More mumbo jumbo and the 'former' blind man began shouting I can see colors - blue - red, green, yellow.
Her aunt started laughing, grabbed them and said - fake, fake, fake and headed for the exit. Then she told them listen no one who was born blind knows colors - we all learn them as toddlers.

They never went near these snake-oil folks again. I still love this story.

[MoonRiver]

15. Oh, that is a great story!

The revival we attended was in a giant indoor stadium in New Mexico. I don't remember much except crying and begging to be saved, lol. He definitely was a powerful speaker and propagandist. Most 10 year olds are bored stiff by sermons.

[malaise]

16. It is intoxicating for young people

propaganda is the word

[MoonRiver]

18. Yes, and it's one of the ways Hitler took control.

[bobbieinok]

63. German visiting prof said Germans refused to attend charismatic type revivals. Too many bad memories

[malaise]

65. At least they learned their lesson

[bobbieinok]

66. Student, worked on revivals, saw Triumpf des Willens, said his groups could learn from that

Triumpf des Willens, Leni Riefenstahl's movie celebrating 1934 Nazi rally in Nuernberg.

If you have never seen it, try to do so. Masterful use of propaganda, both at rally and by Riefenstahl in presenting it.

[malthaussen]

79. "Triumph," actually.

&bpctr=1519230076

As one can see from the title card of the film. Although the typo does make it even closer to "Trump."
Coincidence? I think not!

-- Mal

[bobbieinok]

92. Man o man!! Amazing power of subconscious connections between Nazis and now

[malthaussen]

93. I posted a link to "Triumph" way back when Trump started running...

... first saw it at age 16, **mumble** years ago, and was impressed both by the cinematography and the propaganda value.

There was a point in '16 where pundits were talking about Mr Trump's plane emerging from the clouds bearing the Savior, which immediately made me flash on the film's opening scene.

-- Mal

[bobbieinok]

105. That opening scene is mindboggling. I 1st saw movie in German history class in grad school in 61

About 12 or so yrs ago heard groups were checking the movie out at video rental stores. Some feared it was to gin up neo nazis here.

[MoonRiver]

71. I can only imagine.

Germany has certainly paid its dues, and emerged as a beacon of tolerance.

[pangaia]

82. Every time I see one of your posts,

I think that pic in your sig line is a gas pump handle..

That has nothing to do with this thread...or anything, actually.
I just woke up an hour ago...

[MoonRiver]

102. Lol, I see what you mean!

[pangaia]

80. Oh that is god.

OOpps I mean good.

[malaise]

94. LOL

[GWC58]

127. Very wise of your

mother and aunt to not allow you down there. That was your “saving grace.”

[Nonhlanhla]

10. He was, like many humans, a contradiction

Good on some things, bad on others. Cared about people, had a fairly good track record on desegregation back in the day, was actually considered far too liberal by super-conservative fundamentalists. On the other hand, believed homosexuality was a terrible sin. Etc., etc. So he was a bit of a mix.

He had the same condition my dad had, so I doubt he even knew anything that was going on around him in his last years. Which is probably good, since Franklin has turned out to be such an a$$.

[Hortensis]

40. Good post. He genuinely tried to be a good man

according to the precepts of his religion and era, and that's not nothing.

As for the harm he supposedly did, it was time for evangelism to return from its exile after the Scopes era. If he hadn't lead it, someone else would have.

[SCantiGOP]

83. Is that why he sat in Nixons office

And didn’t say a word as Nixon explained how the Jews were ruining America through their control of the media?
A good man willing to stand up for Christian principles? - bullshit!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

100. He did worse than that. I just learned today about his "Stan's Synagogue" or some shit like

that comment. There's a transcript too.

[not fooled]

85. The biggest compliment I can give him

is that he didn't foresee the horrors that the more extremist religious zealot crackpots were going to unleash. He was actually pro-choice, too.

[Hortensis]

90. Yes, and that's a biggie. One of those unleashed,

of course, was produced by him also, his son Franklin. Perhaps it's a blessing for him that in some respects he died a long time ago.

[pangaia]

87. I'm not so sure I agree.. completely.

Last edited Wed Feb 21, 2018, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

But it is too complicated to explain it all..

He only 'supported' integration when he finally had to. Before that,. nope.

Without expressing an opinion for now about Christianity, I would say that IF there is a value, a truth somewhere in what we call 'Christianity', he was so blind to it, so shallow and ignorant, that his blathering idiocy destroyed any hope in people listening to him to actually find that truth.

[SCantiGOP]

106. No one "had to" support segregation

A lot of ministers, black and white, were beaten, imprisoned and killed in the fight for civil rights. All he had to do was speak up; that would have carried more weight than 100 unknown ministers being beaten senseless by law enforcement. But he ignored a major principle: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[pangaia]

110. OOPPSS my typo. I meant- He didn't support 'integration' until he had to...

Sorry 'bout that.

Rather changes my statement, doesn;t it.

Fixed...

[Nonhlanhla]

111. Which is why I qualified it by saying "fairly good," as opposed to "excellent."

He had serious flaws, and his branch of Christianity is particularly shallow. But tragically enough he was still a bit better on some issues than the deeply fundamentalist types that dominate evangelical Christianity today, including his spawn Franklin.

I come to bury Graham, not to praise him, to paraphrase Shakespeare a bit.

[pangaia]

112. I'll drink to that...

But I still give him no credit.. Look at what he is being compared to... the totally insane fringe element..

[Orsino]

129. He's an object lesson in the danger of entrusting an individual with too much power. n/t

[malchickiwick]

12. You are exactly right! Billy Graham was a sort of anti-George Bailey

(From It's a Wonderful Life)

[malaise]

14. Great point

[H2O Man]

17. May he rust in pieces.

Recommended.

[malaise]

19. Nicely put

You have a way with words WaterMan.

[H2O Man]

20. Thanks.

I met with college and high school students yesterday. Feeling positive from that.

[malaise]

21. So proud of the youngsters

Keep it up bro.

[malthaussen]

81. Once again, I regret the inability to rec comments.

-- Mal

[libtodeath]

22. Thank you.

His fake religion bullshit spawned the racism that we have today.

[Hekate]

124. In what respect, Charlie? Because in my recollection, racism has always been with us...

...along with anti-Semitism and white nationalism. We had the good fortune, in my lifetime, of having those maggots crawl under a rock in most of the country because they were rendered socially unacceptable. But they were still there, always.

White backlash began in earnest during the Obama admin, and now Trump has really empowered them.

But I don't know how you figure Billy Graham spawned what is happening in the present moment.

[SHRED]

23. He was a warmonger

Bothwell documents that there wasn’t a war the U.S. was involved in that Rev. Graham couldn’t bless.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2007/09/27/a-prince-of-war-exposed/

[malaise]

26. Yes indeed

He backed Nixon the way his spawn backs this other criminal

[SHRED]

28. Yep and so much more

[Zorro]

24. He counseled that evil fuck Nixon

and was instrumental -- along with Jerry Falwell -- in getting the religious right attached to the Republican Party like a remora.

He was routinely praised in Southern Baptist churches during the 1960's, but I recall reading an article at that time that mentioned his $200 pair of shoes and wondered how this hypocrite earned such admiration.

He did his fair share of damage to this country in his lifetime, and his asshole son is doubling down on the deviltry.

[malaise]

27. +1,000

More harm than good - PERIOD!

[PatrickforO]

36. Funny...a bit off topic, but maybe not.

Graham for years and years has been a supporter of imperialism and capitalism at our expense.

When I read your post I was just thinking about that article you read in the 60s that mentioned the $200 pair of shoes.

In the 60s, $200 was a heck of a lot to pay for shoes. But now? If you're going to buy a pair of quality dress shoes that will last a few years, $200 is toward the bottom end.

Funny how Graham helped create that wage stagnation and undermine our safety nets.

[Zorro]

44. Minimum wage was raised from $1.40 to $1.60 an hour in 1968

That $200 would have fed a lot of people at that time.

[malaise]

47. Good post

Too many of these snake-oil salesmen (and women) own private jets and luxury homes across the planet paid for by poor sheeple who believe they can achieve the same by buying the snake oil.

[GoneOffShore]

123. Graham and the Republicans were kind of mutual remoras

Sucking on each others blood.

[edhopper]

25. Graham to nixon about Jews

''They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,'' Mr. Graham said on the tape, after agreeing with Mr. Nixon that left-wing Jews dominate the news media. The Jewish ''stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain,'' he continued, suggesting that if Mr. Nixon were re-elected, ''then we might be able to do something.''
Continue reading the main story

Finally, Mr. Graham said that Jews did not know his true feelings about them.

''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know,'' he told Mr. Nixon, referring to A. M. Rosenthal, then the newspaper's executive editor. ''And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.''

[malaise]

29. Well said

And now they will sanitize this scumbag

[The Polack MSgt]

59. Wish I could rec responses.

Just like the complete bulshit line "Love the sinner hate the sin", the fundies' attitude can be summed up as "Love Israel, hate the Jews"

[malthaussen]

84. "stand up if under proper circumstances"

In other words, "I'm a fucking coward, but I'll be glad to throw stones if somebody else starts."

-- Mal

[weissmam]

30. another religious asswhole

Bites the Dust

[malaise]

32. Where is RObertson these days?

I'm sure I read that he had a stroke. Funny how long they all live- guess that's why they loot from the sheeple - sure is a nice racket.

[Zorro]

46. Another great religious charlatan

Using contributions to buy oil refineries and blood diamonds.

[malaise]

48. Where is Benny Hinn these daysHe had the jet and the luxury homes.

Human beings are so gullible.

[Scarsdale]

54. These frauds live long, long lives

because they are not welcome in heaven, and the devil can not stand to have competition in his domain.

[malaise]

56. No - it's because they havegreat health care

which is possible because of all the money they stole from poor people looking for hope.

[njhoneybadger]

62. Porking Paula White behind a pulpit somewhere

[malaise]

64. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Haven't laughed that loud for a week

[Botany]

31. Billy was big on the "love the sinner but hate the sin" meme for LGBT people and ....

.... many of his followers used Graham's anti gay message as their rational
to be bigots to their fellow man.

[malaise]

33. and not only in America

believe me

[octoberlib]

34. If hear one more news outlet refer to Billy Graham as America's pastor, I'm gonna puke.

[lapucelle]

35. Was your final word ironic or merely a good-bye?

Adios (interj.)
1837, American English, from Spanish adios, from phrase a dios vos acomiendo "I commend you to God".

https://www.etymonline.com/word/adios

[malaise]

38. Good-bye - no irony

He'll rot like the rest of us.
He reached his mountain top by stealing from the sheeple

[rurallib]

37. I thought sure he would have reported back from heaven by now

Why if Billy Graham didn't make it, none of us will!

[malaise]

42. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Not going to happen

[njhoneybadger]

39. If only Christianity could have died with him

[Raster]

43. I'm not going to fall all over myself grieving for Graham...

...he was an opportunist, a showman and a charlatan... and frankly, not much else. Graham was the cornerstone of the evangelical infestation in American politics. His son is even more reprehensible.

[malaise]

49. Nailed it

[rurallib]

45. It will be fun to watch his kids fight over his wealth

like the good Christians they claim to be.

[malaise]

53. Hehehehehehhe

It's always about the money

[Catherine Vincent]

50. You guys remember his broadcasts on tv?

I think this happened twice a year. Did he pay for the tv air time?

[TlalocW]

107. Those annoyed me as a kid

I wanted to watch Night Court!

I have a mixed bag of feelings about him. I never studied him as much as I have other preachers who honestly I felt had more power or were more popular - after all, he was on the air 4 hours a year with his crusades, the others had their own TV shows. So a lot of things I'm reading about now is a surprise.

He didn't do faith-healing like some of these assholes, but it seemed like he really wanted to be seen as an advisor to presidents no matter what party. My mom always brought up his response to people getting on him for his fancy clothes, and his response of something like, "No where in the Bible does it say I have to wear rags to preach." and even as a teenager I would think, "Actually, it kind of does in certain ways." Apparently, he didn't believe in a literal hell. And he pissed off Johnson by praying on the White House lawn. That's pretty much it.

Oh, and his son, Franklin, is a goddamn piece of shit.

TlalocW

[RussBLib]

51. Warms my heart to see so many clear-eyed folks here

He wasn't the first evangelist, nor will he be the last. Preying upon the insecurities of people is far too easy.

[malaise]

55. Truth will out despite the propaganda

[spanone]

52. nixon and graham were some slimey evil shits.

[MrScorpio]

57. If I can't say anything good about a person...

[brokephibroke]

58. There is that eye of the needle thing

That he faced.

[sprinkleeninow]

113. And it is 'written' that the 'elect' will be judged more harshly.

They, of all people, should have known.

A number are purveyors of deception.

[Grammy23]

60. When I was a kid (maybe 9 or 10 years old), I attended a revival service.

It was at my brother in law’s country church in rural Mississippi. The revivalist was his uncle who was a missionary/evangelist. He was a performer in the tradition of fire and brimstone preaching and one of his specialties was preaching on the book of Revelations.

I remember sitting in the pew listening to his horrific verbal images of hell and the fate that would come to all who are not “saved”. It literally scared the hell out of me and of course, I didn’t want to be one of the unsaved. I was influenced by that type of sermon until I was in my 30s and returned to college to complete my degrees. Sociology of Religion and Culturalal Anthropology classes and critical thinking skills helped me start to dismantle the indoctrination I received as a child.

Billy Graham was a part of the indoctrination I and millions of others received. His crusades were carried on television and were considered major events. If he came to your town, he could pack a tent of mostly believers and those who were seeking answers. There would be emotional manipulation from the moment the show began and didn’t end until a sea of weeping attendees were gathered at the altar to confess their sins and receive their Get Out Of Hell Free ticket.

Graham was a charismatic figure. He could mesmerize his audience with oratory skills second to none. The missionary I saw as a nine year old spoke in a similar manner. It was loud, bombastic and filled with words designed to instill fear and it worked. Then after scaring the bejeebers out of the audience, the solution is presented. Your only hope is to give your heart to Jesus. Come forward and someone will pray over you and you will be “saved”. Who wouldn't want that kind of deal?

Maybe Graham did some good. Maybe he prevented some from falling into a life style that took them down a dark path. But mostly I think he profited from spreading a gospel that depended largely on frightening people witless, telling them they were lost, sinners and unworthy of redemption and then finally offering them a way to avoid the “wages of sin”.

He was a performer. He spent his life performing and influencing millions of people around the world with a gospel that I think he truly believed. He had a place among our political leaders and gained status as a trusted and respected figure in the hearts of the true believers. Many evangelists came after him but few could claim the status he achieved.

His place in history is preserved but in time I think he will eventually be regarded with less reverence and more as a great manipulator of human emotions. I know now that is exactly how my young mind was influenced. I was placed in a situation where I was bombarded with frightening images and words and then shown the way to avoid all of that. Graham was the best at that and with his death, perhaps now he has a clearer idea of the biggest question humans try to resolve —- what happens after I die?

[malaise]

61. What a great post Grammy23

He fooled a lot of people - scared the living hell out of them. And yes, he was a great manipulator of human emotions.

[Grammy23]

67. He sure did!

He knew exactly how to do it and many more came after him and are still using his methods to this day. Thankfully my education and learning to think and question the things I was taught from infancy helped me leave those teachings behind. It was not easy and I felt a ton of guilt working my way through the propaganda. I still am trying to come to some sort of answers for the “Big Questions” in life. I am almost to the point where I can say I don’t know, but it is okay. I don’t have to adopt some made up stories just because I am afraid not to. Billy Graham and others like him took me on a different journey but thankfully I woke up and started thinking for myself.

[keithbvadu2]

68. Billy hated Jews and said Catholics are not Christians.

[Boomerproud]

117. I have heard "Catholics are not Christians" all my life.

Billy Graham means/meant nothing to me.

[Cryptoad]

69. Seems to me,,,,,

the older he got, the more rotten his fruit became. Most of which i believe from influence of his wife's side of the [Bell] family...... Franklin is his mother made over!

[geardaddy]

70. And he started his corporation in Minneapolis

I remember how much air play that turd got when I was a kid here in MPLS.

[malaise]

72. The Hour of Decision

Who could forget that crap.

[kimbutgar]

76. The devil is happy to see his son come home today.

[pangaia]

77. K&RK&RK&RK&R

He did no good whatsoever..
And then he procreated pure evil...

No thoughts and no prayers from this chair......

[mchill]

78. My personal experience

My mother was a Christian. I lost her when I was 15, but I remember this about her. She loved Billy Graham. She took me to at least one "revival" at the Oakland Colesium in the 60's. She lived selflessly and we always had young people at hour house, living/eating, who had no family. I think she walked her talk, though she never imposed her beliefs on others (her children resisted!).

My mother was also in Donna Read's Mothers for Peace and managed to get one of my brother's out of the army in 1967, after he enlisted, by writing the POTUS and our Senator at the time (she succeeded). She was supporting Bobby Kennedy in 1968.

I know she respected Billy Graham, but she would not feel the same way about the son. She would absolutely detest Trump.

For what it's worth.

[usaf-vet]

86. Damn RIGHT!

He used the bible and religion as a weapon.

[keithbvadu2]

120. Religion and politics use each other to gain wealth and power.

Religion and politics use each other to gain wealth and power.

[Ilsa]

88. Snake oil salesmen have been pedalling

Evangelical, Pentecostal religion for much longer. It's actually easier to pedal that kind of hope to the poor than it is to sell "snake oil." The US has had more than one Great Awakening.

[dhol82]

89. Heard this morning that he started out as a door to door brush salesman

Looks like he just took those skills to where he could make more money.

[malaise]

99. Bingo

From brush salesman to snake oil salesman

[dhol82]

101. And Franklin has built on the legacy

Grifters, all of them.

[KPN]

91. After reading the entirety of this thread malaise, I'm just wondering:

if you have an opinion about B. Graham?

Actually, you stated mine exactly, (considerably) more harm than good.

[malaise]

95. Hehehehehhe

[mountain grammy]

96. a big AMEN and GOOD BYE from this atheist.

Too bad son Franklin didn't go with him.

[gopiscrap]

97. he also spawned a piece of shit for a child (franklin)

[Enoki33]

98. He pretty much perfected the use of media in fleecing the

gullible to finance his lavish lifestyle while turning so called Christianity into a business that openly promoted partisan politics. It is correct to say he did not make the world a better place.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

103. Will Trump go to the funeral?

Those are his sheep too.

[Bradshaw3]

104. Couldn't you say the same thing about religion?

Doing more harm than good.

[Runningdawg]

108. Thanks to Billy

I spent a significant portion of my allowance buying up "acceptable" albums at thrift stores and garage sales. I then switched out the covers on my album collection to prevent my parents from burning the good stuff.

[malaise]

118. You win the thread

[Sneederbunk]

109. He made the non religious nervous.

[WyattKansas]

114. I can't see how anyone who lives in the life of luxury...

Has any credibility preaching about Jesus. The logic is not there.

[malaise]

119. It's a good pitch for the prosperity gospel posse

You want this life - give me 10% of your earnings.

[fescuerescue]

115. This place is always very classy when someone dies

Good to see so many rise above the hatred and be so classy when someone you disagree with passes.

[Duppers]

125. You'd say the same about TRump.

When the collective we say Graham did more damage than good, we sincerely mean it. Guess it just something you'll never understand.

👋

[fescuerescue]

130. No need to be mean

"Guess it just something you'll never understand. "

I just prefer to not talk ill of recently deceased. I understand it. It's just something that considered ill form in my culture.

As far as the President. Talking about that online can bring unwanted attention from the Secret Service.

[Duppers]

131. Your culture?

You're not in the US?

"As far as the President. Talking about that online can bring unwanted attention from the Secret Service."

Dear, then the whole net is in trouble. 😁


Btw, I'm not superstitious.

[JI7]

126. Graham was the hateful one and look at his sleazy piece of shit son

[hunter]

122. So did Steve Jobs.

Cold grey purgatory for them. They had a product, they sold it. It's the U.S. American way.

The fires of hell are very well stoked with worse. Don't need more fuel.