Next time ANYONE tries to defend a cop killing an unarmed black man with "he feared for his life

[EffieBlack]

... remind them that they accused a cop of being a coward because he didn't run headlong into a shootout with a killer spraying AR-15 bullets.

Some of us already knew the "He shot the unarmed black kid who had his hands on the steering wheel because he was in fear of his life so he's actually a HERO!" was a crock, but now it should be clear to everyone that it's pure BS.

If a cop is supposed to have the courage and presence of mind to run into a building armed with only a handgun and engage an AR-15 toting shooter WHILE he's shooting or else be branded a coward responsible for the deaths of everyone the shooter killed, then a cop should also have the presence of mind and courage to assess whether someone is a threat to them before shooting them in the back just because their black skin gave them an itchy trigger finger.

[mainstreetonce]

1. Every time a student reaches for his waistband ,teacher Wilson has the perfect excuse

What could go wrong?

[EffieBlack]

2. Black boys are scary just walking around in their black skin

so they're ALWAYS a threat.

[erronis]

12. Absolutely-fucking-true. It's such a sad environment.

That's why so many talented people of all races/colors tried to find a better one overseas.

[HipChick]

3. Thank you..this needs to be pointed out...

[atreides1]

4. To be honest

I don't believe that Deputy Peterson is directly responsible for the deaths of everyone, just for those who were killed for the 4 minutes that he hid outside!

Remember the shooting went on for 6 minutes, so he has an excuse for 2 of those minutes!!!

[mainstreetonce]

5. There were also wounded victims

Who needed immediate attention as he hid outside.

[EffieBlack]

6. It is HIGHLY unlikely that he would have been able to stop one death or aided even one student

The man had a handgun and was probably never trained in how to respond to an automatic Weapon attack - something SWAT officers train and drill constantly to handle.

I'm not passing judgment on whether he should have gone in, but the notion that had he gone in, he would have saved any lives is crazy. If he had gotten close enough to the shooter to shoot at him, he would have been shot dead on the spot before he could have even taken aim.

This "blame the cop on the scene" is nothing but a diversion by the NRA to draw attention and responsibility away from the people who made it possible for the shooter to legally buy a weapon of war and refuse to put in place any laws to protect in advance.

And, unfortunately, many of us are falling right into the trap of blaming an ill-equipped school resource officer standing in the school parking lot looking to prevent school fists fights and pot buys for not stopping a carnage that was put into place months, years and miles before.

Meanwhile, the same people who call this guy a coward label as heroes those officers who shoot black men in the back because they were scared.

[Raster]

8. Thanks, Effie, for bringing a bit of logic and rational thinking to the table...

...I wholeheartedly DOUBT that the school Officer was properly trained to deal with a person spraying the school with AR-15 gunfire. And I wholeheartedly AGREE that blaming the Officer is nothing but a diversion to draw attention away from the real culprits.

[pangaia]

13. Again, so obvious we sometimes don't see, and it it takes some like you to have to remind us.

Thanks again..

[SunSeeker]

19. Well said. nt

[Fla Dem]

21. Totally agree. Very doubtful the office would have been at all effective to stop the shooter.

Last edited Mon Feb 26, 2018, 02:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I understand the shooting went on for just 6 minutes. We don't know when the deputy actually became aware of the shooting, if he knew which building it was in, where was the deputy when the shooting started, how long it would take for the deputy to reach the shooters building from where he was when he found out, kids were already running out of the building causing confusion. Not saying there wasn't some lack of action, but just questioning given the short time period and chaos how much a deputy could have prevented.
I would also have to "presume" he radioed in to the sheriff's office. Would like to know what instructions he was given. Was he told to stay put and wait for back-up, or told to engage the shooter. I'm not siding with the deputy, but people are so quick to judge and use him as an excuse for the deaths rather than the real cause... assault weapons.


Time line of shooting
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/sfl-florida-school-shooting-timeline-20180223-htmlstory.html

[EffieBlack]

24. This This This

I am absolutely disgusted listening to people - led by the president of the United States - mocking and belittling a person as a "coward." We have become an ugly place.

[EX500rider]

42. "and was probably never trained in how to respond to an automatic Weapon attack"

You mean locate the individual firing the weapon, get behind cover if possible and return fire?

Not much training needed for that, the trick is how much range time he has, ie can he hit a target at the range of the engagement while under stress.

[EffieBlack]

45. Wow - you and Donald Trump sure have a simplistic view of what cops and SWAT teams do

So, you must be for arming teachers since anybody can just locate a person firing a weapon, take cover and return fire on them, right?

As I said, wow.

[EX500rider]

51. Cops aren't "anybody" and have some firearms training.

And at indoor range a semi-auto Glock in 9mm or .40 cal with 17 rounds certainly has a chance against one teenager.

[EffieBlack]

54. One teenager spraying AR-15 fire at anything moving in the middle of chaos while hundreds of people

are screaming and running every whichaway with sirens blaring.

Oh - and he didn't know at the time it was one teenager.

Gotcha.

Your arguments are so ridiculous and fantastical, it's hard to even take you seriously. But you seem so very certain in your beliefs that I suspect you are impervious to reason or reality, so I'll just leave you to your good-guy-with-a-gun fantasies and not waste any more time discussing this with you.

Have a nice evening.

[uponit7771]

47. +1

[Chemisse]

48. Totally agree. Definitely a diversion and probably unfair.

It especially pisses me off that all those cops get away with shooting unarmed black men and boys because they are oh-so-scared, yet this guy declines to go on a suicide mission and he is driven out of town.

[EffieBlack]

49. And when a cop kills unarmed black males, criticism is shut down with "You have no idea what it's

like to be in that position so you have no right to second-guess them." But in this case, even before there's been any investigation or people know any facts, folks on both side of the aisle are piling on the deputy, dictating exactly what he did wrong and what he should have done.

[GaryCnf]

55. Yes n/t

[guillaumeb]

56. Excellent points.

All about deflecting from the real issue, as you well said.

[whopis01]

58. "and was probably never trained in how to respond to an automatic Weapon attack"

There was no automatic weapon involved.

Granted, you technically didn’t say there was any automatic weapon used - you just said he probably was trained to respond to it - but you certainly implied it.

It doesn’t help your argument when you exaggerate the facts like that. Stick to the truth and you’ll get your point across much better.

[pangaia]

10. Are you saying that,

"...(d)eputy Peterson is directly responsible for the deaths.................. (of) those who were killed for the 4 minutes that he hid outside!"?

[hueymahl]

16. Don't want to speak for the poster

But I will say, Deputy Peterson is a coward. While he is not directly responsible (duh!), I hope the deaths of those children haunt him because he abandoned his sworn duty and responsibilities.

[EffieBlack]

18. Wow

His sworn duty was to run into automatic payments gunfire without any training or appropriate weapons?

That would probably come as a surprise to SWAT teams who rarely burst into buildings until they have appropriate backup, equipment and knowledge of what's going on inside.

But now they're all cowards.

Gotcha

[SunSeeker]

20. Indeed. nt

[hueymahl]

22. I appreciate your point of view

There have been many posts on here refuting your assertion that he followed his training. Exactly the opposite is true - he was trained to confront the shooter, not wait outside while the students he was sworn to protect got slaughtered (and he got fired for it). And btw, when there is an active shooter killing kids, SWAT teams don't hesitate.

This is not some rent-a-cop getting minimum wage. He is (was) a sworn police officer. And he abandoned his duty like the coward he is.

[EffieBlack]

25. You know for a fact exactly what he was trained to do in this exact situation?

How do you know this?

FYI - I didn't "assert" that he was following his training.

And he wasn't fired. He was suspended pending an investigation and then he decided instead to retire.

I don't blame him. I mean, when the president of the United States, the NRA and thousands of random civilians who don't know squat about his job, what he faced that day or what actually happened since the investigation hadn't even started, call him a coward and blame him for the deaths of kids because he didn't run into a building trying to shoot an assault weapon wielding shooter with his handgun, he's probably going to need to get some full-time counseling (not to mention some security to protect him from the gun nuts who shift blame on him him for the deaths that they think are the price to pay so they can exercise their non-existent constitutional rights to possess weapons of mass destruction).

[hueymahl]

26. I infer based on the immediate response of his supervisor in firing him

I infer it based on articles and discussions I have read about protecting kids in the aftermath of Columbine. I infer it based on my discussions with my friends who are sworn police officers.

So, no, I do not have direct evidence to the training this particular police officer has been given. I can only infer it based on the evidence available to me.

What evidence do you have that he was trained to sit on his ass while kids he was sworn to protect got slaughtered?

[EffieBlack]

27. That's a lot of "inferring" with no evidence at all - and you've got your facts wrong

First of all, he wasn't fired. Second, you have no evidence that he "sat on his ass." Moreover, the investigation has barely begun so your inferences are premature.

I don't have any evidence of anything - including his training what exactly he did during the shooting - which is why, unlike you, I haven't passed judgment on him.

But you're doing a beautiful job on behalf of the NRA. They're probably delighted to have folks like you to do their bidding on DU.

[hueymahl]

28. What is with the personal attacks?

I find the NRA repugnant. I'm talking about one person shirking his duty and moral responsibility. You want to give him a pass, fine. I don't.

[LanternWaste]

31. No doubt, your lack of a pass will be given all the credibility it in fact, warrants.

No doubt, your lack of a pass will be given all the credibility it in fact, warrants.

That said, I also find it both physically and ethically convenient to call cowards out from behind the safety and comfort provided by our computer chair. It allows our melodramatic pronouncements of heroism and cowardice to appear less fictional.

[hueymahl]

33. I call it like I see it.

It is your choice whether to give my opinion credibility or not. Interestingly, by responding, you have done just that.

My guess is the OP is mad at me not because I think that the officer is a coward, but because the officer must be forgiven for his cowardice for the OP to make any sense. They really are two separate issues, the problem of police violence against minorities and the problem of this individual officer shirking his duty to the kids.

[EffieBlack]

35. I'm not mad at you at all

Actually, I feel sorry for you.

And you completely missed the point of my OP.

[EffieBlack]

34. You may find them repugnant but you are repeating their talking points verbatim

That's not a personal attack. Just a fact.

[hueymahl]

36. News to me

I don't have a clue what their talking points are other than "Guns are Awesome, FU libtards"

[EffieBlack]

37. Then you haven't been paying attention

But feel free to check out Dana Loesch's and Donald Trump's Twitter feeds to see what they're saying about the deputy. It's remarkably similar to what you're saying - and by disseminating their talking points, whether intentionally or unwittingly, you're accomplishing their goal of diverting attention away from their own culpability for making it easier for an 18-year-old shooter to get and use his AR-15 by focusing on piling on the guy out in the parking lot who didn't do what most law enforcement will tell you would have been an impossibility.

[hueymahl]

38. I don't follow Trump's twitter feed

And I don't even know who Dana Loesch is.

To me it is just a moral issue. I can both believe the officer abandoned his duty and believe in gun control and believe that arming teaches is a nutty idea. But I am a pretty simple guy. To me, it is more effective to say if this trained officer couldn't due his duty, how could you possibly expect a teacher to do it? Not to mention the unintended consequences of having lots of guns in schools.

[EffieBlack]

39. I agree with your ultimate point

I also think it could be made without smearing the officer as a "coward," especially since you don't have all of the facts.

[hueymahl]

44. That is a fair comment

This issue is emotional for me. I'll reserve further judgement until more facts come out. Maybe he had a really good reason (other than fear for his own safety) for seemingly not doing anything to protect those kids.

[tblue37]

40. The supervisor (Sheriff Israel) doesn't want the spotlight on himself, so he hung Peterson out

to dry.

[hueymahl]

43. That is certainly a possibillty

Doesn't really change my opinion of the man. I understand many may disagree with me, which is fine.

[EffieBlack]

46. I don't think that's the case

But if it's true, it didn't work, since they are all over him, too.

As I said, this is all about diverting attention from their own culpability. That's what they always do.

And if - when - it happens again, they'll blame teachers for not arming themselves.

[treestar]

29. The only person directly responsible is the shooter

We don't know if the deputy would have been able to prevent any deaths for sure.

[spicysista]

7. Yes!

There is nothing else to say.

[ffr]

9. RE: arming teachers, as conservatives and the NRA are pushing. In the chaos of a school shooting

Link to tweet

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Which is ironic given the racial makeup of most school shooters.

[treestar]

30. The whole idea is ridiculous

The wild west of the 19th century is gone

[pangaia]

11. Sometimes the obvious is so obvious, we don't see it.

Thanks.

[LittleGirl]

15. I don't think he's a coward at all.

I think he's human and we will probably hear of his demise in the next weeks, months or years ahead about how it changed his life just like the students that never want that to happen again. Period.

[EffieBlack]

17. I don't either

It seems that the only people who think he is are those who have never been anywhere near such a situation - and would probably freeze in place screaming and pissing their pants (or ducking behind a podium) if they have found themselves in one.

[LittleGirl]

41. yep, cadat bone spurs is a prime example

of an actual coward.

[EX500rider]

50. "I don't think he's a coward at all."

Yes, he bravely waited outside the building while kids were getting murdered.
Even though protecting them is his entire job.
His only excuse to be outside would be he ran out of bullets trying to take down the shooter.

[ret5hd]

52. Big Bad John

[EX500rider]

53. Getting a job as police officer pretty much has the possibility of gun play..

...if you don't think you are up for that you shouldn't apply.
Like volunteering for Airborne and then refusing to jump out of the plane.

[ret5hd]

59. Or signing up for Meal Team 6 and refusing to eat Cheetos.

Eh, Eh? Am I right?

[Dave Starsky]

60. They gave him a gun and 76 grand a year.

When they basically could have put a cop outfit on a department store dummy and had it stand in the front lobby.

I don't really blame the guy, though. That situation would be incredibly scary. The instinct for self-preservation is strong.

[deurbano]

23. Very good point, and I hope you don't mind if I "steal" it.

[JCanete]

32. excellent point! Absolutely easy to convey and immediately highlights the hoops of reasoning

people trying to defend both gun rights and cop killings unwittingly jump through.

[raven mad]

57. +1000

Oh, and most of the armed black men here are military; some a required to gun up even off post. No one worries about what they're carrying or what color they are.

That cop was NOT a coward. He actually used his brain.

Thank you for this post.