Im curious. Does anyone have a problem with

[GWC58]

with Billy Graham laying in state? My problem is this; we are NOT a theocracy. I find it all odd, that’s all.

[Frustratedlady]

1. Lying where? eom

[Zoonart]

3. In the Capitol Rotunda.

Lying in honor refers to a private citizen and has been rare historically. Officer Jacob J. Chestnut Jr. and detective John M. Gibson, who were killed by a gunman at the Capitol in 1998, became the first private citizens to lie in honor. In 2005, Parks became the first woman and second black American to be honored in this way at the Capitol Rotunda, according to the House, following a resolution from both houses of Congress.

Yes, I have a problem with this honor being extended to Billy Graham.

[Frustratedlady]

10. Does Franklin have the collection plate out?

No, I don't think Billy Graham reached the point where he would be honored with lying in state in the Capitol.

Will Pat Robertson be next?

[MFM008]

34. The hat

Is out.

[LisaM]

2. Would you feel the same if it were Martin Luther King, Jr?

He was a religious figure, too, and (I don't know whether he did) I would have zero problem with his lying in state at the Capitol Building.

I'm not a Billy Graham fan, but to some extent, he tried to work across the aisle, and had relationships with both Presidents Carter and Clinton, along with Republicans. I would never, ever go to his lying in, but it doesn't really bother me.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

18. MLK Jr. wasn't trying to convince people to share his delusions. He was fighting for equality

for all. No comparison. It bothered the fuck out of me that Carter and Clinton gave Graham the time of day.

[LisaM]

21. I didn't love that either, but they were both (IIRC) Southern Baptists

Jimmy Carter made a very big deal of being religious, Clinton less so, but it was in his background.

BTW, I looked it up, and no, MLK, Jr. did not lie in state at the Capitol Building - very few civilians have.

The original question, though, was not about what the person was working for or against, it was the concept of a religious figure lying in state when we have separation of church and state - it wasn't about the policies of said person. I think it's odd, but it just doesn't bother me all that much. I had actually thought about this comparison before, and since I'd concluded to myself that if it had been MLK, I'd have been all for it, it doesn't matter all that much to me if Billy Graham does.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

24. It bothers me because it's outright state support for a creepy religious figure I despise.

[LisaM]

29. OK, but that still wasn't the original question.

I was just trying to answer the question of whether it bothered me that a religious figure was the person in question. Since there are religious figures whom I'd support lying in state, then I just gave an honest answer. I don't care for Billy Graham either, but that was not the question posed.

[Va Lefty]

31. You really should read Rolling Stone article on Graham

He was hardly the paragon of morality he is portrayed as.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-soul-crushing-legacy-of-billy-graham-w517067

[LisaM]

38. I'M NOT DEFENDING BILLY GRAHAM.

I give up.

[Va Lefty]

39. Not my intent to "pile on"

I apologize.

[LisaM]

43. Accepted!

Thank you.

[nocalflea]

42. Don't give up !

My response was similar to yours. #13 here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210274100

I can and do understand the distinction you're making.

[Solomon]

32. Yeah but there's a huge difference.MLK fought for

Civil rights for all. Wouldn't have mattered what his profession was. He achieved great things deserving of honor outside of his profession. In Graham's case it seems he's being honored for BEING a religious figure.

[Retrograde]

28. King was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize

so one could make an argument for him being honored for his overall contributions to humanity. Graham, not so much - at least I don't recall any instances of him putting his life or freedom on the line for his beliefs.

[Aristus]

4. If he was lying in state in some hillbilly church in North Carolina, I wouldn't have a problem

with it.

In the rotunda of the US Capitol? Yeah, I think it's a bad idea.

[a kennedy]

5. Yah, that church vs State thing.

[GWC58]

36. Bingo!

Separation of church & state! Billy Graham does not belong in the Capitol Rotunda. St. Patrick’s Cathedral would have been more appropriate, and Grahams wasn’t Catholic.

[MineralMan]

6. Yes. It's totally inappropriate.

He never held public office, much less in the federal government. He was a Christian preacher. That's all.

He should not be lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda. Period.

[blake2012]

7. Yes. Let us not forget his cousin is the scandalous Jimmy Swaggart

And his son is a horrible reminder of where vocal religious leaders have gone—straight to fascist, right wing language and behavior.

[GWC58]

37. Yeah, funny thing about Christians is

their lack of being “Christ like.” When did Christ say screw the poor, the more unfortunate. Phonies is what they are, especially the likes of the person laying in honor. For Graham it’s now “was.”

[GWC58]

45. Franklin Graham is despicable, deplorable

excuse for a, supposed, man of God. Hell hes not even a good “snake oil salesman.” Maybe he’s just a snake. A snake that crawls on his belly!

[mulsh]

8. yes. Totally inappropriate but given the current crew of griters in the exec not a bit surprising.

Are they tithing or charging an admission to view the casket?

[YessirAtsaFact]

14. The casket is inside a big vending machine

Insert a $20 bill and the casket opens for 10 seconds. Fifty bucks gets you a 30 second peek.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

19. ROFL!

[NightWatcher]

9. I just giggle because I know he's not in the clouds in a mansion of gold or whatever else

they promise us down here if we make ourselves subservient to their imaginary sky gods. He's just as dead as he was a thousand years ago and as gone as my dog that I put in the yard two years ago.


They just look stupid fawning over the shell of a snake oil salesman.


If you are religious and I've offended you, forgive me.

[GeorgeGist]

11. Peter Alexander just said it was Franklin Graham ...

Cheers!

[LanternWaste]

12. Lying in Honor rather than in State.

Lying in Honor rather than in State.

Lying in Honor is one step below, and a more recent phenomenon. Graham is the fourth person to lie in honor in the Capitol. The three others were U.S. Capitol Police Officers Jacob Chestnut and John Gibson and Rosa Parks.

I'd like to have seen Martin L King Laid in Honor had it been available at the time... despite his being (by today's lazy definitions) a religious fundamentalist.

[bottomofthehill]

40. interesting group

1 Rosa Parks, Civil Rights Icon who helped start a movement to equality

2/3, US Capitol Police Officers who were killed by a deranged gunman. JJ Chestnut and John Gibson died in the US Capitol defending the building, its employees and the general public who were all in the building at the time of the shooting.

4 Billy Graham.

[WillowTree]

13. Not "lying in state". Lying in honor. It's done rarely, but it has been done before.

I have way bigger things to be concerned about.

[CousinIT]

15. Yes. Heard it this morning and cringed. n/t

[50 Shades Of Blue]

16. Hell yes.

[nocalflea]

17. It probably should bother me more than it does.

Politicians have been pandering to Billy Graham since I can remember. I've never understood his appeal, but then I've never run for office.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

20. At least it's not like he'll be impeding congress from getting work done.

[bottomofthehill]

41. Sadly enough

The Continuing Resolution is only good through March 23 and then the Govt is once again broke and in the "Closing Down" mode. House votes were canceled this week and most Members of Congress have now gone home for the week so we are less than 3 weeks away from the next Shut Down.

[wryter2000]

22. I find it repugnant

And I'm very active in a Christian church.

[octoberlib]

23. Yes and he had a military escort. I'm getting sick of seeing journalists call him

"America's Pastor". This country has no official religion as stated in our constitution so, no Billy Graham is not our pastor. Don't get me started on his anti-semitic (he was caught on tape) and anti-gay statements. BG was a proponent of conversion therapy and thought AIDS was God's judgement on gays.

[Retrograde]

30. A military escort???

For someone who did little more than talk? Oh, and worm his way into the corridors of power. There's a nice article in Rolling Stone about Graham's history with presidents and presidential candidates - you can add Catholics to his anti list it seems, along with all other non-Protestant believers. IMHO, Graham's greatest achievements were building up what looked like a big enough following that most politicians were afraid to offend him, and paving the way for today's crop of televangelists. Neither of those are things I chose to honor.

[moriah]

25. If it'll convince Huckabee that his reported death isn't "fake news", I'm okay with it.

Dude. He's dead. Here's his cold body. That's what people are reporting about. You have given the dictionary example for "fake news", in fact -- news you don't like and spin to fit your worldview but is in fact true.

Sorry, he was my governor for awhile and I'm still embarrassed.

[samnsara]

26. i dont care one way or the other.

[FSogol]

27. Same here. n/t

[NRaleighLiberal]

33. I find it "odd".

[MFM008]

35. Strictly a photo op

For Red Don.
Daily Mail was pushing a picture of him and Melania holding hands which is funny because now she knows where that hand has been......
Hey Mel... $$$130. Thousand.....

[Duppers]

44. Hell yes!!

Hubs and I were discussing this yesterday. We are atheists, (20% of this nation has no religious affiliation whatsoever) and are in total agreement with you.

The majority of the country are not evangelical protestants and this nation is not a theocracy.

The WaPo hits it on the head in this sentence:

Graham is also greatly admired by many of the millions of evangelical Christians who associate themselves with conservative policies and the Republican Party."

Everything they do is a political ploy.