General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen Trump is impeached, what if he refuses to leave office?
Like any game of chess, it's important to think past the next move.
I'm convinced that Trump will be impeached, sometime in the next year or so. However, our assumption that he just packs up leaves needs to be examined.
This is a guy who had the Russians steal the election for him (or at least was the recipient of Russian action), so it only follows that he(or Russia) would resist impeachment when it comes to that.
What if he orders the Military to enforce his rule (using generals he installs/promotes)? What if he mobilizes the NRA in support?
I know it's easy to say "one step at a time, we'll worry about that later", but we really do need to some succession and follow on planning.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)nt
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)well done, comedy writing quality level
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)He'll leave quickly.
lisa58
(5,755 posts)ooky
(8,922 posts)as they carry his lard ass out.
poboy2
(2,078 posts)You know, let him hit his bald spot head, its only fair.
johnp3907
(3,731 posts)Thats not how impeachment works.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I assume the OP means that he's impeached and also convicted
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)God help us if he is impeached and not convicted.
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)Under the current Senate, that means getting every Democrat and at least 17 Repubs. That could change come November, but it's still going to take 10+ Repubs in order to have any chance at conviction, and probably several more.
I'm not sure that many would vote to convict, even if he was accused of killing someone on 5th Avenue.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)depressing thought.
MichMary
(1,714 posts)It is mathematically impossible.
Nixon resigned because he had lost the confidence of the Senate Republicans. Conviction would have been likely. Things are so polarized right now that there is no way the Rs won't vote unanimously to acquit.
Yes, unless he resigns we will be stuck with him for all four years.
cos dem
(903 posts)About the only way I see it happening is if '18 is enough of a bloodbath for Rs (in what should be a good year for them) that they get panicky enough about '20 to bail on the orange idiot. Still, as pointed out, a lot of Rs have to get on board.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)White House.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Do you really think his generals are going to follow the orders of the non-President?
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)sarisataka
(18,643 posts)And he won't be convicted.
As for succession, that is well covered and was discussed at length some months ago.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)While I suppose I appreciate all the discussion that conviction is required (I thought that was obvious, but ok), the question is what happens if he is convicted and then refuses the succession plan.
sarisataka
(18,643 posts)"Nope" is not an option. Once the Senate convicts a person they are no longer President. There will be no President until the Vice President takes the oath of office, which if anyone is on the ball, should occur within minutes.
The ex-President may object, shout, stamp their foot or hold their breath until they turn blue; it won't matter because they no longer have any power.
A smart person would quickly leave by the back door.
Still a moot point as I see no scenario where the Senate votes to convict.
edit add-ons the military is not going to support illegal orders especially from a President being impeached.
As for the other, to paraphrase Stalin 'How many battalions does the NRA have?'
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You think Marshalls will have his back? You keep mentioning only one person. It would take major agencies, including all top military, for something like this to even be a possibility.
Unless you mean he hides in a closet pissing himself. Then I say we leave him.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)While I have no use for him, he did have enough support to steal his way into the Whitehouse.
Certainly the Russians have their own people during what they do. I doubt that he would be 100% isolated then any more than he was 100% isolated on election day
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Who has his back at that point? I now know of two people who would refer to him as President at that point, Trump being one of them. So who are the people who help him to maintain power instead of simply being a trespasser.
Thats the question. The amount of people, including agencies, would be rather large. Agencies he has relentlessly attacked. Otherwise he is simply an unwelcome occupant, with two people for sure referring to him as President, and his removal would be swift.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I hope you are right, that he'll be totally isolated.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You have yet to make any case. The question is still unanswered. How would Trump get the Joint Chiefs, Dept of Justice and others to answer to him instead of Pence?
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I'm just an observer and I'm not making a case. I'm asking a question.
When we look at any dictator, king or other evil leader we can ask the same thing, "Why do people follow him"?
Any rational person would have assumed that people would have abandoned Hitler once it became clear he was evil and was doing evil things, yet he remained in power until millions died to remove him.
I think the answer is, because there are follower who think they will be rewarded, or they fear punishment. Take Kim Jung-un for instance. Evil person, hated by millions including certainly his own people. Yet he is flesh and blood and his body is just as fragile as any of ours. Nonetheless he lives and stays in power.
I never thought Trump would be nominated. I never though he would be elected. Yet we know what happened.
To answer your question, I don't think he would get the Joint Chiefs, Dept of Justice and others to answer to him. But my predictions haven't been textbook, and furthermore, they are quite irrelevant, because if they were, he wouldn't be where he is now.
madinmaryland
(64,932 posts)by the Senate, would he voluntarily leave? Assuming Pence doesn't get convicted by the Senate also, the he would be handed all controls of the Presidency and would have tRump removed from the White House (forcibly if necessary.)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to for him tour the White House like the rest of us?
Fescue, after impeachment would come trial by Senate. If he was removed by that process, the VP would become president.
Most of us would have more than enough to worry about with a new President Pence, who'd then be Commander in Chief.
If Trump threw a tantrum, WH security and the rest of the Secret Service could tend to him, though probably someone he was still talking to might be there to schmooze him out quietly. But otherwise it'd be the job of the WH's Chief Usher to move ex-President Trump's and Mrs. Trump's belongings to their destination of choice, make sure they didn't accidentally take any WH property, etc.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,686 posts)the same question came up. Some people wondered whether he'd barricade himself inside the White House and refuse to leave if he was actually impeached. As it happened, once the articles of impeachment came out of the House judiciary committee, he gave up and resigned. But he'd become pretty buggy the last few months, and there was some speculation that he might do something drastic.
Trump is probably even crazier, but he's also a big fat coward. So, we'll see.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I really didn't intend to get into the technical process of conviction etc, I thought that part was obvious (But I suppose not since there are a dozen replies repeating that part )
I appreciate the historical perspective, I didn't realize that the same concerns were raised about Nixon.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)onenote
(42,700 posts)Pure fantasy.
The guys a nutjob, but the military isn't going to set up a barricade around the white house.
kairos12
(12,860 posts)bullimiami
(13,090 posts)LOCK HIM UP!
briv1016
(1,570 posts)Especially will Russian help.
Stallion
(6,474 posts)the military would enforce a final judgment of conviction by the legislative branch and/or the next in line of succession as mandated by the constitution.
samir.g
(835 posts)mcar
(42,312 posts)Impeachment doesn't do anything without a 2/3rds vote of the Senate to remove.
Even if Dems take back the Senate, it'll be by a seat or two. Removal won't happen, this the impeachment argument is not all that relevant, IMO.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)mcar
(42,312 posts)when it will get nowhere in the Senate.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)mcar
(42,312 posts)Mueller will do what he does, but unless he can perpwalk the Dotard out of the WH, it's up to us.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Lure him out with a bucket of fried chicken and a tax abatement.
I know I sound flippant, but Trump is too much an idiot, too incompetent, and too lazy to pull off a Boris Yeltsin stand,
waddirum
(979 posts)I believe refusal to leave office would after impeachment and Senate trial would qualify for such an arrest.
mcar
(42,312 posts)2/3rds of the Senate is not going to vote to remove.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)They've already laid most of the groundwork that the independent counsel is a biased, partisan process.
We'll hear about how there are no Republicans on Mueller's staff, we'll hear about how they relied entirely upon the Steele memo (which isn't evidence of anything) as a legal foundation for all their subsequent investigations.
And we'll hear about how it's the Democrats, the outgoing Obama administration, and everyone else he doesn't like's fault. And he'll still have that 35-40% strong approval rating, which is enough to keep 50 Repub Senators in office, and we're SOL.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But I will play...
The minute he is convicted he is not President. President Pence would have him, Jarvanka, and anyone or thing that reminds the country of Trump removed by the Secret Service so fast you head would spin.
spanone
(135,831 posts)hedda_foil
(16,373 posts)I see a potential scenario where his masses of armed followers descend on the WH to prevent him from being physically removed.
honest.abe
(8,678 posts)They only tolerate him now because he holds the office of the President. Once that is legally stripped they will treat him like a criminal if he tries to forceably remain on office.
Takket
(21,565 posts)he can refuse to leave but after about 5 minutes the FBI will take him into custody to stand trial.
nini
(16,672 posts)the take him to prison to rot till he dies.
doc03
(35,332 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)JDC
(10,127 posts)IMO
no_hypocrisy
(46,095 posts)2. When he uses his own jet, they'll change the locks of the WH.
3. Just wait for him to leave on his own initiative. He doesn't stay at the WH more than 5 days in a row.