This will be controversial to say, but Lamb is right about Pelosi

[scheming daemons]

There's nothing wrong with Nancy Pelosi. She was a great Speaker, and is a solid leader.

But if Democrats take back the House this year, we need new, young leadership. Look at these kids on TV today... the future of the Democratic party is with the young. No Democratic congressional member over 60 should even be considered for Speaker.

It is time to start elevating the fantastic young representatives that we have.

Pelosi was a great Speaker... but she represents the past. As does Hoyer. We Democrats need fresh young leaders.


If Nancy announces that she won't run for Speaker after Democrats take the House, the GOP loses one of the last arrows in their quiver for the midterms. What might be a 40-50 seat gain for Democrats might become a 70-80 seat tidal wave.


Democrats... it is time to solidify and take advantage of our strength among the young people. People who have been politicians for 40- and 50-years, no matter how good they are, will not resonate.


ON EDIT: Schumer, in the unlikely event that Democrats take the Senate, should step aside as leader as well. We have excellent young senators that would be effective leaders. GO YOUNG!

[Fresh_Start]

1. Funny how its always the woman to be sacrificed...how about Schumer? nt

nt

[Achilleaze]

2. OK

Make it so. As a certified geezer, I salute Pelosi and Schumer for their service, but I'm backing the young 'uns. Time for change.

[EffieBlack]

41. Which "young 'uns" do you suggest and what experience do they have to actually be Speaker or Leader?

[LBM20]

94. Tim Ryan is more than prepared. There are others. Time for new blood. My goodness.

[mcar]

111. Tim Ryan, the pro-life conservative Dem?

My goodness.

[EffieBlack]

132. Tim Ryan isn't even close to being prepared.

He's a good Congressman, representing a very conservative district. But he's not leadership material and hasn't done any of the homework necessary to prepare himself to be.

He spends his time complaining and carping about leadership, but he hasn't built up the relationships or respect in the Democratic Caucus that he needs to become their leader. And when he had the chance to get into leadership, he hasn't taken it. For example, he hasn't run for any of the lower House offices - like Deputy Whip - that would put him in position to move up and take over leadership. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that those "farm team" positions aren't sexy but they are hard work and require a lot of time - time that you can't use going on television talking about what a great job you'd do if YOU were in leadership.

And it's interesting that he blames Pelosi for Trump carrying his Democratic district. Excuse me? Tim, that's YOUR effing district! What did YOU do to get YOUR OWN DAMNED VOTERS to vote Democratic? If you can't convince the people in your own backyard to vote Democratic, why do you think you'd be so successful as Speaker getting people all over the country to vote that way? And why do you think that Nancy Pelosi is supposed to get your own people to vote Democratic when you can't?

Sorry, Tim Ryan is not prepared for leadership.

[RandomAccess]

142. Tim Ryan is an ass

Other than that, I'm sure he'd be just fine.

[Ninsianna]

161. Except he isn't, nor do his colleagues agree. My goodness, simply being a white male doesn't make

You prepared.

[flotsam]

6. Why don't you tell that to Al Franken? N/T

[Fullduplexxx]

14. Zing.......nt

[Fresh_Start]

83. I'm sorry was pelosi accused of sexual improprieties that I'm not aware of?

She is being sacrificed because the republicans don't like her
Franken was sacrificed because of his own actions

[Sophia4]

88. The Democratic Party needs to project an image of strength and energy.

Plus we need to develop strong leadership among our younger representatives and senators. We need to put people who could run for president into the public view.

I'm older, but I think it is time to pass the torch to a younger generation.

I remember JFK and the hope and loyalty he earned among my generation. It's time to pass the torch . . . .

[Fresh_Start]

103. To my understanding, we don't pick the speaker of the house

the members of the house do.

If they pick someone else, no problem.
If they pick Pelosi again,also no problem.

[flotsam]

114. No

Was Al Franken accused of insider trading? Because In November 2011, 60 Minutes alleged that Pelosi and several other members of Congress had used information they gleaned from closed sessions to make money on the stock market. The program cited Pelosi's purchases of Visa stock while a bill that would limit credit card fees was in the House.

So if allegations=guilt and punishment....

[deurbano]

122. And Hillary Clinton is still attacked because of her husband's own actions.

The main reason Pelosi and H. Clinton are such rich targets for Deplorables is that they are groundbreakers who have defied the traditional stereotypes about women. So in the interest of trying to ward of these unfounded attacks, we should cave to the cavemen? (Obviously that question is not directed at you.)

[EffieBlack]

141. Apparently Frankens ouster was also Pelosis fault

At least according to some folk here.

Go figure.

[pangaia]

134. "Franken was sacrificed because of his own actions"

Umm, I'd have to think about that...

[BannonsLiver]

146. My advice: stay down

That was a slobber knocker you walked into there. My sympathies.

[DFW]

147. Which actions of Al Franken are you talking about, specifically?

I don't mean the ones made up by Fox Noise and Republican fraudsters, but offenses he really and truly committed?

Al Franken was sacrificed because his fellow Democrats were in such a rush to paint Roy Moore in a bad light (correctly), that they felt they didn't have the time to investigate (and ultimately disprove) all allegations of inappropriate behavior against Al Franken.

Al Franken was felled by a shot in the dark taken by Republicans who took down the elephant by pure insane luck. Al never mounted a big defense against the allegations because he knew they were bogus, and figured (in a rare instance of inaccurate assessment) that his fellow Democrats would figure that out instantly. No one ever counted on his fellow Democrats falling for the scam. He threw in the towel because his fellow Democrats turned on him in haste and ultimately without legitimate cause. It was not because of anything he had actually done.

[LiberalLovinLug]

202. Exactly!

[LakeArenal]

185. Well, had Pelosi been accused of sexual improprieties, credible or NOT....

I would have expected her colleagues to stand with her through due process.

We aren't forgetting Al Franken or the railroading. Just so ya know.

[lark]

206. Oops, not true!

The photographer and other people in the room at the time said Franken never touched that woman. The photo was edited before being released by Roger Stone. One of the complaints was he put his arm around someone's middle when taking a picture and she didn't like it because it reminded her she felt fat - how the freak is that something wrong by Franken in either of these? Franken wanted an investigation, Tweeden didn't because she's a liar. Because of some self righteous not caring about the truth people in his own party, Franken is now lost to politics. not because he did anything wrong at all. Please stop spreading rw lies engineered by Hannity & Stone against a liberal lion.

[SCVDem]

157. Bring him back! nt

[hueymahl]

8. Schumer should step aside from leadership too

They both are still valuable parts of the Democratic machine and I hope they stay involved behind the scenes. But we need new public faces at the top.

[scheming daemons]

9. I don't think we can take back the senate... but if we do, I agree.. Schumer shouldn't be the leader

We have several excellent young Senators.

Kamala Harris, Mark Warner, Amy Klobuchar... would all make excellent majority leaders, if we take the Senate.

[EffieBlack]

47. 1. Have any of them expressed an interest in being Leader? 2. Do they have the experience and

skills to be an effective Leader? The job is more than just doing interviews and sounding tough.

[Sophia4]

91. They should take the leadership roles while those who preceded them in those roles

are still active and present and can gently guide them. That is the point in passing the torch to someone younger. The young learn from the older, more experienced leaders.

[EffieBlack]

97. I ask again: have any of them expressed an interest in taking a leadership role?

[ehrnst]

105. One would think that these "younger people" you say are waiting in the wings

would have approached these leaders before now if they wanted mentorship and guidance to step into that role them... that sort of initiative would be vital for a real leader.

Who is it that you are talking about, exactly, when you talk about these "younger" people who seem to need a leader to quit before they start getting ready for the job?

[ehrnst]

110. And saying that their biggest qualification is that they are "new blood"

and railing against the "establishment" that they are hoping to become a major cog in...

[Cuthbert Allgood]

48. Cory Booker, Tammy Baldwin

[scheming daemons]

55. YES! Though I think at least one of those will be too busy running for President

[Fresh_Start]

107. Why is it dependent on taking back the Senate first?

Schumer could be replaced even if we don't (and most likely won't take back the senate)?

[Blue_true]

30. There are plenty women below her who are ready to take over.

A woman may well become party leader if Nancy steps aside.

[LBM20]

89. Please, it is not about gender. It is about needing CHANGE. Pelosi has had her time.

[BeyondGeography]

124. And Hoyer. And Clyburn. Diverse enough for you?

Our whole House leadership team is in dire need of updating. For proof, you need only play clips of Pelosi and Clyburn reacting to the John "Icon" Conyers scandal.

[Cary]

130. I know, right?

[Boomer]

189. Old women are considered disposable

"Young blood" means someone who doesn't know anything. I'll stay with the experienced woman who knows how the system works and is a master of getting things done.

[Woodycall]

199. Except for of course, Al Franken n/t

[chuckstevens]

3. Prepare for the wrath that awaits you!

You are brave, but this will probably be alerted by someone very soon! Dissent is not allowed!

[NCTraveler]

72. How did your alert work out? nt.

[Hekate]

4. Why today?

[jberryhill]

7. Because unity in victory among Democrats is to be avoided at all costs

[scheming daemons]

10. Elevating fresh young leaders increases Democratic unity....

....and it is also relevant because it was a big part of the message that won for Lamb last night.

[jberryhill]

15. Elevating X is not equivalent to tearing down Y

[scheming daemons]

17. Didn't tear down anybody. Read the first line of the OP again.

[LanternWaste]

40. You'll provide evidence to support that allegation, yes?

You'll provide sound evidence to support that allegation, yes?

Or (and I find this more likely) will you simply rationalize your allegation by doing anything other than stating it over and over again in different formats...?

[scheming daemons]

52. The Democratic edge among voters under 45 is humongous....

Under 45, Democrats win by 2-to-1 in almost every poll.

Over 65, Republicans win in large margins.


The voters that overwhelming makeup the Democratic voting coalition are skewed very much toward the young. Our leaders should reflect that.

[NCTraveler]

77. And who has the house leadership position on our side?

You just made their point. Your assertion they were replying cannot be borne out in reality.

Your op has merit. I don't necessarily disagree. Your comment they were replying to cannot be quantified or rationalized.

[Eliot Rosewater]

109. And not tolerated

If only some folks understood how political parties operated

1. leaders NEVER give up leadership, or almost never. That would be like hiring



to drive your race car and then saying "Hey Lewis, I know your experience and track record makes you the fastest and best driver alive, but could you not drive so fast and kinda hang back and lose please?"

[mcar]

113. Yep

We had a great win last night so it's time to attack Pelosi.

[democratisphere]

11. Democratic Party unity is our absolute number one importance in the upcoming

elections of 2018 and 2020. No excuses!

[ismnotwasm]

12. Nope.

[still_one]

13. With that criteria it is time for Sanders to step aside

[hueymahl]

20. I would agree with that too, if he was in "leadership"

Except he is not.

[mcar]

115. He is, apparently, considering another Presidential run

What about that?

[hueymahl]

119. Not a fan of another run

I appreciate what he did and has done, but I won't vote for him in the primary if he has any reasonable opponent.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

198. He's young at heart.

I think the next race should be settled by foot race.

[bettyellen]

197. Well hes flying around the country dissing some Dem candidates and anointing others...

So someone should tell him to stop that shit.

[FSogol]

25. Actually, it isn't. This thread talking is about party leadership positions which Sanders doesn't

have. The voters of Vermont will decide when he doesn't belong anymore.

[EffieBlack]

50. I hope you'll speak up with these same words the next time someone here insists that Feinstein needs

to go because she's just too old.

[FSogol]

60. I haven't been part of any attacks on the Sen Feinstein.

[Mariana]

43. I agree completely.

Sanders should not stand for Speaker of the House of Representatives.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

65. What leadership post does he need to step aside from?

[cwydro]

16. Over 60???

Wow, really?

Everyone over 60 should just be put out to pasture huh?

You don’t know the 60 year olds I know apparently.

[scheming daemons]

22. No.... they shouldn't be considered for next Speaker.

That's much different than the strawman argument you made.


The future of the Democratic party rests with young voters... they want younger leaders.

[EffieBlack]

53. It sounds like you have no idea what a Speaker does

It's not a job for a "new fresh face."

[cwydro]

58. Oh, ok.

Thanks so much for edumacatin’ me there.

[Blue_true]

34. The OP didn't say that.

Pelosi would still represent her district as long as she wants to.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. 60? Pelosi is 77.

Maybe she was exceptional. Maybe she still is, for her age.

Or maybe it's time for a change.

[Brother Buzz]

18. A little birdie in California politics told me....

Pelosi plans to announce her retirement from congress once the house flips; job complete.

[NCTraveler]

79. That would be a real display of class and toughness.

Not running when times are tough.

[HopeAgain]

19. Let's make Democrats in Congress relevant again first.

We have a big hill to climb, let's decide who gets to plant the flag when we get there.

[JI7]

21. Those young protestors want gun control. These are 2 different things

Those young people WANT people like pelosi in office.

Lamb ran in a heavily red district and needed people who would be opposed to what those kids wanted to win.

[Volaris]

23. I disagree on a singular condition:

If we get control of the house, I want Hillary Clinton named Speaker, so that when the republican presidential TICKET is impeached, she can assume the office that is RIGHTFULLY hers.
Other than that, I'd agree with you.

[hueymahl]

39. THAT would be awesome!!

It would sound like the 4th of July with the number of heads exploding!

[scheming daemons]

59. Doesn't she have to win a House race somewhere first?

[Volaris]

66. Nope. There's no Requirement to be a sitting house member.

The Majority can nominate and elect ANYONE.
It's never been done, but it CAN BE.

[Hekate]

81. I think FOX News would call for a civil war and we would have one

Nice fantasy you have, but it just doesn't work like that

[SCVDem]

173. Not a problem!

It's clobbering time!

[sprinkleeninow]

195. Right! Bring it!

[Hekate]

209. It is a problem when idiots who watch FOX are armed.We do this at the ballot box & in the courtrooms

[SCVDem]

210. Fantasy!

Only conservatives are armed or trained veterans.

Real patriots do not talk intimidating shit !

[LisaM]

24. As in any workplace, a mixture of age, experience, youth, energy, and talent is needed.

I'm not sure where we got to this "us vs. them" generational thing (and I see it in other workplaces, too).

FACT: the average American is now needing to work well into her or his sixties, and maybe even seventies, to be able to afford to retire. These workers still bring a lot of value to the workplace, but nothing lasts forever. I don't see why we can't value a mix of all the traits I listed above (and I probably missed plenty more).

We are so quick to dismiss institutional knowledge across the board, but look at the disastrous results of letting people without a lot of political experience run the show.

We need to value everyone.

[scheming daemons]

26. Maybe more than actual age, we need fresher politicians who haven't been entrenched for decades

I just see so many new Democrats with great ideas and vitality who would make excellent Speakers.

[LisaM]

32. There are lots of jobs on the way to being Speaker.

Of course, I happen to like Nancy Pelosi quite a bit and I think she did/does a good job and knows how to round up votes, so I'm not sold on the value of change for change's sake.

I don't think anyone else could have gotten the ACA passed and for that, the GOP will never forgive her, so they turn her into a villain.

[scheming daemons]

45. I agree with you on the ACA... but that was a decade ago....

... the Joaquin Castros, Eric Swalwells, Elizabeth Estys of the world are ready to be leaders.

[NCTraveler]

84. This is one of the reasons I think you should reconsider your conditions.

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

We clearly can't have simply a new person. I don't want to discount anyone who has had a great career in the private sector, retires, and then decided to dedicate themselves to politics.

[LisaM]

108. No (and I don't have "conditions"), but institutional knowledge matters.

Unfortunately, across the board, our society is beginning to value it less and less. I've served on a few boards, and been in a couple of long term jobs, and I think that both old-timers and newcomers have a lot to offer each other.

However, as in a global society, in politics, alliances are important. I regret that people seem willing to just disregard them, and I don't just mean in Congress. Look at Trump, brushing off our important allies, alienating the UK, Canada, France, and for what?

[NCTraveler]

140. I completely agree with you.

Just in knowledge of rules alone it is huge. I also don't think people understand what Pelosi faces when she steps up to a mic. She has to know all and answer all in a competent manner. That is a herculean task.

"Unfortunately, across the board, our society is beginning to value it less and less."

Agree and it stinks. I don't have a tax person straight out of college doing my business taxes. I don't have a tax person doing my taxes who just decided they were going to start doing them later in life. I value knowledge and experience. I do the same in politics.

I think this conversation is being held in too limited of a scope. We are in a position where I think we would benefit from a young rockstar taking more of a leadership position. That said, the rockstar won't amount to crap without the institutional knowledge of a leader like Pelosi.

I am of the opinion Pelosi will step down if we gain the majority. I'm looking forward to the ensuing battle.

[EffieBlack]

57. Thank you!

[JI7]

27. Except the big name person that lamb campaigned with was Joe Biden

Not Obama, not corey booker.

As others said he was right for that district but it's actually the opposite of what those kids want.

[scheming daemons]

31. I don't think Biden should run for President in 2020 either....

...fresh, young faces are needed.

But that doesn't mean we don't utilize Biden in districts where he'll help. Or use Obama and Booker where they will help.

[Blue_true]

28. I agree with everything you said.

If Pelosi and Schumer announce that they will not run for party leader, nor will their luietenants run, the republican attack message get gutted and they will have to go nose to nose against our slate of candidates, that won't work out well for republicans.

But, even our candidate saying that they will support someone else for leader, like Lamb did blunts the republican message.

[scheming daemons]

33. Bingo. This is what I am trying to say.

[EffieBlack]

62. Yes - let's roll over and play dead because the Republicans threaten to shoot us

Or, better yet - let's get rid of our leaders because they are so effective that Republicans hate them.

[Blue_true]

73. We have as effective or more effective potential leaders waiting in the wings.

I stick by what I wrote.

[EffieBlack]

76. Yes, we do. And while they're waiting in the wings, they need to build up their experience the way

Nancy did so that they're ready to step into leadership on day one, just as she was.

Running around doing interviews, complaining about leadership, insisting they can do a better job is not effective training for House and Senate leadership. Gathering experience takes work - a lot of unsexy, grueling, behind-the-scenes not on camera work.

They should spend a few years doing THAT and then I'll take them seriously.

[mcar]

123. Do you really think Rs won't come up with attack messages against the younger reps?

Really?

The Rs make shit up about our people all the time. If they all stepped aside because of it, there'd be no one left.

We have to stop letting Republicans control our message and our decisions. Pelosi has been a great leader for us. She should step down when she, and her caucus, decide.

Everything else is ageism and pandering to Republican propaganda.

[Thew]

137. Yep - they will never stop

Anyone in leadership will be subject to the same or worse attacks.

Part of the issue is that we keep rolling with these attacks instead of having Dem leadership's backs. There is literally nothing to be gained agreeing with the attacks of our opponents, it looks terrible. At least these attacks should be ignored publicly.

Part of our side's "wimpy, wishy-washy" problem is our eagerness to pile on our own. It discourages any sort of principled stand as you can't count on your own side for support (or at least ambivalence).

[EffieBlack]

151. +1000

[NastyRiffraff]

29. Oh goodie. More "advice" for the Democrats

Like clockwork. Really, we're doing quite well without it, thankyouverymuch.

[hueymahl]

46. Are we? Really?

The biggest win yet this political season had to run against our leadership.

[NastyRiffraff]

51. Oh good grief. They're crawling out of the woodwork.

If you think Lamb "ran against" our leadership your comprehension skills need work. Sheesh.

[hueymahl]

63. Indeed they are

The old guard has their blindly loyal protectors.

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-local/2018/01/08/nancy-pelosi-paul-ryan-conor-lamb-rick-saccone-18th-district-special-election/stories/201801080095

“I think it’s clear that this Congress is not working for people,” said Mr. Lamb on Monday morning, as some initial polling data was circulating and national interest in the race continues to swirl. “I think we need new leadership on both sides.”

His support for new party leadership “is not personal,” added the former federal prosecutor. But he said that after speaking with people in the district, “It’s more about the fact that I expect leaders to get results, and the result of our Congressional leadership has been to have people in the district dissatisfied with their performance.”

[ehrnst]

95. Hey, sortof kind of saying he is "pro-life" worked to get in this deep Red district, too.

Even though his voting record is pro-choice.

[hueymahl]

99. Yes, I thought that was a shrewd political move

Abortion is a thorny issue in any election. Especially in a largely conservative district.

[EffieBlack]

64. In the most Republican districts in the country.

This is amazing.

People insist that Diane Feinstein step aside because she's not liberal enough and she's too old.

They insist that Nancy Pelosi step aside because Republicans hate her because she's so liberal - and she's too old.

But Biden - he's so DREAMY!!!

[Me.]

86. Regarding DiFi

she has been the most effective DEm on judiciary yet constant calls for her to step down...Grassley, a Con, has been a terrible leader of that committee and despite that. nobody, Dem or Con, has mentioned, to my hearing, that he should step down. Yet, he is the same age as DiFi

[NastyRiffraff]

104. Yeah, same age. I wonder what the difference is?

Hmmm.

[Me.]

118. One Is A Very Smart Effective Woman

and one is a male who isn't. So let's guess.

[hueymahl]

125. Well, he is in the majority party currently, a big difference

And I would love to see him step down!

If we were still in power, I doubt anyone would be asking for Feinstein to step down.

[Me.]

139. You May Be Correct

That said, as they say, why should she be asked to step down simply because of being in the minority. She was the one who released the Fusion GPS testimony against Grassley's wishes and it was she who recently spoke up for the AWB during a meeting with Comrade President.

[hueymahl]

143. I respect those that wish for the current leadership to remain in-tact

I've been having several (mostly) polite discussions about this topic on this and other threads, and I am a little worn out. Someone usually implies or alleges that people wanting the leadership removed is based on sexism or ageism.

Personally, I think it is time to get fresh faces in there. Not necessarily younger faces, or faces of a different gender. But new faces. It's like a company that nearly went bankrupt. The corporate officers may or may not be responsible, but they let it happen on their watch. Time for new leadership.

[Me.]

154. I Don't Wish Leadership To Change Willy Nilly

Simply for the sake of change. If there's a better option, better qualified, more experienced...let's talk.

[EffieBlack]

155. It may very well be time for new leadership. Well see

But you don’t do it by just tossing out the current leadership “for something new” without carefully considering all the options, making sure the new faces are actually an improvement over the existing leadership and ensuring a smooth transition.

This “we gotta get Nancy out” drumbeat with clearly no plan or vision is just foolish and pure amateur hour.

[hueymahl]

163. Agree 100%

[deurbano]

177. Yes, we have already seen the horrific results of the "burn it down to save it" mentality.

[jalan48]

35. She is definitely used by Republicans all

over the country to hammer Democrats. It may not be fair but it’s a reality, forcing those Democrats to either defend her or try and distance themselves from her.

[EffieBlack]

68. What's wrong with Democrats defending her?

Are we only supposed to have people that Republicans love?

Good Lord!

[jalan48]

78. Democrats in conservative areas are

put in a tough position when their Republican opponent links their name with Pelosi’s. What should they do?

[EffieBlack]

85. So what?

You think Republicans wouldn't go after our new, fresh faces if THEY were in leadership?

Of course they would - and it would be even worse since the new people wouldn't have the chops or experience to handle it - and would probably have plenty of fresh, rookie errors to point to.

What should they do? Get an eff-ing backbone and play it smart.

We don't see Republicans saying, "Oh, Jeez - I don't care HOW effective Mitch McConnell is as our Majority Leader. We need to get rid of him because Democratic voters don't like him and they say mean things about him."

[jalan48]

98. Its a reality in todays elections.

I like Pelosi and believe she will do the right thing when the time comes. However, to expect someone running for Congress in a state like West Virginia to spend their time defending Pelosi during their campaign is a mistake. Not all Democrats are the same as we all know.

[bettyellen]

203. So we follow the needs of the most conservative areas and abandon gun conrol now too? LOL - nope.

This is getting ridiculous.

[mcar]

128. +1000!

Well said, Effie.

[radius777]

212. Dems are a center-left/mainstream liberal party

and any leadership (even if Pelosi and Schumer retires) would have to reflect that.

We're not going back to the Dixiecrat era simply to appease conservatives, and we can't (and don't have to) win everywhere.

Dems in more conservative districts have always been "allowed" to run against leadership (likely with consent of leadership itself).

[awesomerwb1]

74. Unfortunately, that's true

I will never understand why the hatred towards Pelosi from the right, but if they keep using her as some demon not to vote for a Dem over and over it's because they know it works for a good number of voters.

Now, if the younger generations start voting consistently they will have earned the right to have representatives closer to their age and more in tune with their needs and realities.

Nancy Pelosi should start grooming a few women to learn how to be an effective leader/negotiator.

[mcar]

126. Any Dem in a leadership position would be attacked by Republicans

Really, how do people not get that? Look at what they did to John Kerry? What do you think they'll say about Tim Ryan, Corey Booker, Kamala Harris, etc?

They will paint them as the next coming of Chairman Mao - and their cultists will believe it.

[jalan48]

133. I agree and with Fox News serving as a

propaganda outlet. The question for me is what can we do? Its obviously an effective strategy because they keep doing it. We are ok with some Democrats being more conservative because that is where they live. Pelosi lives in arguably one of the most affluent and liberal areas of the country. I’d wager 99% of the US is less liberal and to a large degree. Personally, I live in a very liberal area and linking my Democratic Congressman to Pelosi world have zero effect.

[mcar]

135. Removing anyone the Rs said bad things about is obviously not a good strategy

I also think that removing Pelosi as Leader would not stop the Rs attacks on her. They'd still brand any D running in a more conservative district as aligned with her.

One way to deal with it might be to address it directly: "Of course my opponent and his wealth Republican backers are going to try to smear Nancy Pelosi. Although I don't agree with her on every issue, she was one of the most successful Speakers of the House in generations. I find it kind of sad that lame attacks on someone I never even met is all they've got. Me, I'm here to talk about the issues that matter to our district."

[jalan48]

148. I like the way you stated that.

I think we need to stand up and hopefully candidates in more conservative areas will do so.

[mcar]

150. Thank you

[LanternWaste]

36. little more than a fundamentally meaningless series of bumper-stickers

"Represents the past. Needs new blood. Want fresh ideas."

Each one of them little more than a fundamentally meaningless bumper-sticker unsupported by objective evidence. They sound good though, and certainly support a narrative.

However, both science and anthropology would characterize your premise as a "nothing-burger, heavy on the rhetoric, light on evidence, and hold the facts..."

Youth is not inherently wise; and "brand new, fresh ideas" can be as backwards, as fallacious and as absurd as anyone else's.




"She represents the past... only to you" and others who are unable (unwilling?) to support that premise in any meaningful or objective fashion.

[hueymahl]

49. They are appropriate shorthand

Otherwise, you have to, every time, get into a litany of how our leadership failed us and allowed the Rethugs to control almost everything. So, yeah, I would rather not do that everytime. It makes me depressed.

[CentralMass]

37. IMO, their age is irrelvant. Age has it benefits as does tenure.

It comes down to are theyeffective and will they change course from the status quo ?. the country is spiraling into an icreasingly bleak and in some cases desperate future for a lot of Americans. The leadership needs to spell this out load and clear.

[EffieBlack]

38. New leadership is always great

But new leadership for the sake of fresh faces is NOT what's needed in the top leadership positions.

Now, if someone can identify a Member who has Nancy's chops, knows how to whip and count votes the way she does, can raise money to beat the band like she does, can manage a caucus as effectively as she does, by all means, advocate they take her place. But I generally find that most people who insist that Pelosi should step aside for "new blood" not only don't seem to understand what a Speaker's or Minority Leader's actual job is (hint: it's not to go out and rally the troops in the field - that's other people's job), they don't have the first suggestion of who should take her place and perform as well as she does.

If someone wants to move up and take over leadership, they need to do what Pelosi did - do it the hard way, work their butt off for a few years building up the support and the chops they need to step into those positions, just like she did. She didn't get where she is by jumping in front of cameras trashing the then-leaders and demanding they step aside so she could do it. She worked tirelessly for the team and built up her experience, relationships and cred. And then, when David Bonior announced he was stepping aside as Minority Whip, she announced she would run for the position. And then she worked it. She reached out to every Member, meeting with each of them face-to-face to ask for their support. She ran against Steny Hoyer, who also did the same thing, but she prevailed - and did it without trashing him or Bonior.

THAT's why Pelosi's where she is and why she ain't going anywhere until she's damned good and ready.

And the idea that we should take out our own leadership because Republicans don't like them is, in my view, just plain stupid. Republicans target Pelosi BECAUSE SHE'S EFFECTIVE AT KICKING THEIR ASSES. Otherwise, they wouldn't waste their time complaining about her.

This pattern we have of letting Republicans pick our leaders for us - and particularly trashing the women on our side whom they decide to put a target on - is absolutely mind-boggling to me.

[hueymahl]

54. Republicans target Pelosi

Because it plays well with their base. Her recent record of leadership belies all of your points.

[EffieBlack]

71. What "recent record of leadership" belies my points?

Please be specific.

And of course they target her because it plays well with their base. They support Donald Trump because it plays well with their base, too. Maybe we should just go for it and make HIM our nominee, since keeping the Republican base happy is our new goal.

[hueymahl]

96. The list is long

I think she has done amazing things, but since you asked:

Most recently was how the "dreamers" were handled. Sold out, in my opinion.

She botched the handling of the #metoo movement. The backlash of her support for Conyers made it easier for the removal of Franken.

Prior to that, she failed to get her candidate (who would have been my representative) Jon Ossof Elected.

Prior to that, she presided over some of the worst political losses our side has ever seen.

Her own people are trying to spin any calls for her removal as "sexist". All this does is serve to marginalize and divide the party in an attempt to protect her own power.

I am not here to bash her, but again, you asked. She has done amazing things. But for the sake of the party, it is time for her to step aside. You would have to look back to the 50's to find a situation where the party that lost control reelected their leader after losing control.

I will say a few positive things. She has a largely progressive stance, she is an amazing fundraiser, and she has done a decent job of keeping us unified as a minority party.

[EffieBlack]

127. Thanks. Now let's walk through these one-by-one:

Most recently was how the "dreamers" were handled. Sold out, in my opinion.

What specifically did she do wrong? Her historic "filibuster?" What exactly did she do that "sold out" the Dreamers? What should she have done differently? What do you think that she didn't do that a new, fresh face would have done? Again, please be specific.

She botched the handling of the #metoo movement. The backlash of her support for Conyers made it easier for the removal of Franken.

Nancy Pelosi saying that the founder of the Congressional Black Caucus who had served for more than 50 years was an icon who deserved his day in court was responsible for Al Franken being forced out of the Senate? Oh, come on - that's really a stretch.

Prior to that, she failed to get her candidate (who would have been my representative) Jon Ossof Elected.
Ossoff was not HER candidate. And the House Minority Leader is not responsible for Congressional elections or field activity. It is NOT her fault that a candidate loses. Democrats have won more elections in the last year than we've lost. Do you give her credit for getting "her" candidates through in those races?

Elections are primarily the responsibility of the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC. It's interesting to me that you don't blame THEM for any losses, but instead put the onus on Nancy Pelosi.

Prior to that, she presided over some of the worst political losses our side has ever seen. The House Minority Leader doesn't preside over elections. Moreover, one of the reasons we lost seats was that she was TOO effective - she got her Caucus, time and again, to vote for progressive legislation that then went over to the Senate to die because the Senate Dems couldn't get it through.


Her own people are trying to spin any calls for her removal as "sexist". All this does is serve to marginalize and divide the party in an attempt to protect her own power. This "Talking about sexism is divisive" argument isn't even worthy of a response on a Democratic board

It sounds to me like you really don't understand what a Speaker/Leader's job is.

[hueymahl]

138. Clearly we are going to have to agree to disagree

I stand by my statements.

Her "filibuster" was political cover and a meaningless gesture. The time to protect the dreamers was when we had the lever of government shutdown.

The Conyers thing was tone-deaf and a political misstep.

She actually strongly supported Ossof and was instrumental in bringing him into the campaign (see, I can say nice things). I was part of that campaign. Her support was used to attack him and rally republican moderates, and Ossof could not get away from that (she did not cause him to lose, but she was a factor). Lamb learned that lesson and ran against her in his campaign.

The DNC, DCCC and DSCC all have parts to play in the losses -they share responsibility with Pelosi and other leaders from that time.

Falsely accusing other democrats of sexism is, in fact, divisive.

Nice little jab there about not understanding what the job is.

[EffieBlack]

144. Interesting

But you still haven’t said what Pelosi did wrong on the Dreamers and what specifically she should have done differently.

And you blame her for Osoff’s loss in a heavily Republican district that he was never expected to win anyway because she supported him and Republicans don’t like her? Okaaay. Maybe if the Dems take the House back, they can elect a really conservative, non-Progressive - or better yet, a real Republican - so we can try to keep that from happening again.

Not a jab, just an observation based on what you’ve been posting.

[hueymahl]

149. I respect you, but you are doing a great job of misstating my positions

Which is more than a little frustrating. I'm out.

[Owl]

205. Well said.

[Caliman73]

67. Great Post!

I understand the urge to "get the new passionate, fresh" people into congress and replace people who appear to have become the old establishment, play it safe crowd. I would like to see younger representatives as well.

However, what Effie said is exactly true. Pelosi, for her faults and decisions that I have disagreed with, was one of the most effective Democratic House leaders in a long time. She earned her position every step of the way. She earned every bit of hatred that she engenders from the Republican leadership because she is fierce and effective.

This is the problem with the concept of "out with the old" or "term limits". The reality is that there is a method, a system that is required to get things done in Congress and Nancy Pelosi understands that system. I like Bernie Sander's message. He is a good person to rally people together, but he does not have the actual legislative accomplishments that either Pelosi or Schumer for that matter, have.

Lamb will hopefully be a strong advocate for the progressive policies that are needed in his Pennsylvania District. He will hopefully learn the system and go on to do big things in congress. There is a difference however, between getting into congress on a progressive message and holding together a coalition of different Democrats and shaping a national legislative agenda as Pelosi has done.

[EffieBlack]

82. Beautifully said!

Thanks for the backup!

So glad you brought up term limits, which are just crazy, a cry of "I can't be trusted to vote intelligently, so please take my vote away from me!"

If we had term limits, we'd have a Senate and House full of Ted Cruzes and Blake Farentholds, with no Bernie or Maxines to keep them in check.

[seaglass]

70. Thanks for this awesome post Effie. n/t

[yallerdawg]

44. The Senate and the House is a seniority/experiential/networking game.

Pelosi and Schumer don't assume leadership, they are elected by their fellow members.

If they stand for the positions, the young'uns can vote them out.

If they are considered 'the best' and win election, that is exactly what we should want!

[octoberlib]

56. A leader should have experience . And it should be earned with a bunch of Congressional terms

under their belt.

[FreepFryer]

61. LOL. NOPE. Jettison the leadership the moment we need to recapture both houses to save the Republic?

NOPE

[NCTraveler]

69. I don't think Pelosi will run again if we get the majority.

She is such a fighter and class act that I don't think she could not fight for the position because we became the minority. She fights. If we get the majority and she is leader, I think she will not even run for it again.

[Hekate]

75. Congressional leaders are chosen by their peers, who vote for them. If they want a newbie...

...or someone under a certain age, they will make it happen, by vote.

But by all means, let us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's such a Democratic Party tradition that it looks like my fellow Californians may be doing just that this year.

[zipplewrath]

80. Possibly

I've been "lead" by more than one "young and up and coming" leader. More often than not, it's not worked out well for anyone. I think the mistake that is often made here is that her "support staff", i.e. the whips and others should not hang on forever. Up or out, a bit like the military. Obvious exceptions, but I would say that she should only leave if one of her immediate subordinates was in a better position to lead a newer and younger organization. Otherwise, she should probably CREATE a newer, younger organization, from which she could ultimately step away some day.

[workinclasszero]

87. Why do we have to push aside our friends and allies to

elevate new young leaders?

These new folks need to be brought in and encouraged for sure but why the divisive rhetoric?

[LBM20]

90. I applaud her service but yes, absolutely, it is time for CHANGE.

[ehrnst]

100. She was elected by her peers. Do you think they don't know what the job entails? (nt)

[delisen]

92. If you need someone to "step aside" you're not strong enough for leadership.n/t

[ehrnst]

101. Bingo. (NT)

[workinclasszero]

102. This bears repeating IMO

"If you need someone to "step aside" you're not strong enough for leadership."

[scheming daemons]

158. That's actually a good point.

But Democrats would be better off if there wasn't a fight.

[ehrnst]

93. I guess the last thing Dems need right now is experience and deep knowledge of the enemy.

The reason the GOP targets Pelosi is that she's so... helpful to them in getting elected, I guess.

Yeah, I can totally see that young people will just vote GOP when they see Pelosi on the news.

Also same for Schumer.

Let's just jettison all those who have been in office for 35 years not just 40!!

Why leave them out? Especially if they're over 70, right?

At least the women.

[wishstar]

106. Lamb advocated for Ryan to be replaced too for new leadership on both sides on aisle

he stated today that his opinion was not person about Pelosi but that he thought both parties needed change at top

[mcar]

112. No. Just no.

Nancy Pelosi was the most successful Speaker of the House in generations and is a highly effective Minority Leader. She has the experience, the skill, the political savvy and the political capital that we'll need when Dems take over the House.

She knows how to get things done. Enough with the ageism, which seems to be specific only to certain politicians, BTW.

[OnDoutside]

117. Many of you are missing the whole point of the anti Pelosi venom. It could be Leader Moulton or

Leader Lamb, it doesn't matter. Republicans are well practised on putting a target on the back of Democratic leaders and spinning the fuck out of it, to set the hate narrative in front of their thick supporters. If Pelosi goes, all that experience goes and the Reps will just target the next person. 18 months ago it was Hillary, now only Trump mentions her.

[scheming daemons]

156. If she announces she won't run for Speaker after midterms, there's nobody to put a target on

...in the midterms.

There's no actual face or name for them to put a target on in that case. It is simply "generic Democrat".

[OnDoutside]

215. That's an interesting idea.

[Bettie]

120. You're not supposed to say

that the next generation should get a chance at leadership. Ever.

[stonecutter357]

121. lol fail.

[ismnotwasm]

129. Meanwhile, Minority house speaker Pelosi is out at a rally supporting the youth walkout today.

Showing leadership on a very important issue.

[greymattermom]

131. In Georgia 6

most of the commercials were against Nancy Pelosi, not against Jon Ossoff. There is a weird hatred for her out there. I don't get it, but it's real. Some folks think that California is full of "dirty hippies". Israel sponsors trips to young Jewish people. Maybe California should sponsor trips to a few folks from coal country.

[BannonsLiver]

160. They use her as a bludgeon, and it works

Two things surprise me: One, that she can't read the room and see that. Two, that people here can't or won't see it.

[EffieBlack]

167. Because if Nancy Pelosi werent Minority Leader, we would totally kick ass in the red districts.

[BannonsLiver]

178. Who said that would be the case?

I said they use Pelosi as a bludgeon, which is true. If she announces she won't stand for speaker if the Dems re-take the house, it neutralizes that line of attack. They wouldn't know who to attack because they wouldn't know who was next in line to be speaker.

Like I said, some can't or won't see that either because they can't think it through logically or they're so sentimental they don't want to think about it. I have some bad news for you that will probably come as quite a shock. There will come a day when Pelosi won't be leader anymore. That is a fact. Beat your head against a wall with your cartoon avatar all you won't. It won't change a GD thing.

[EffieBlack]

186. You really think that if they dont know who the next Speaker will be

they’d have no weapon?

Please ... they’d just target someone else or, perhaps more effectively, gather up a Parade of Horribles to scare the shit out of their base.

This whole discussion reminds me of the “if only Hillary didn’t have a private email server, the Republicans would have laid off of her and she’d have won in a landslide” arguments.

[leftstreet]

172. +1

I don't get why so many object to this observation

The GOPers have been prepping for a new "Lock Her Up" rally cry since Clinton lost. It's horrible, it's egregious. But it's reality, it's politics

[pbmus]

136. Elect a center-right Democrat and start negative spouting leadership...

That is exactly what repukes want democrats to do...

[BannonsLiver]

145. Agree on all counts

[Demsrule86]

152. Stop just stop...he had to say that in order to distance himself from her because of

his district... no point in this. No matter who the Leader is...they will be disliked.

[samnsara]

159. someone told me that when they contacted me for a donation....i asked why he felt he had to distance

...himself from her. The person I was chatting with said the same thing.. that he HAD to take that stance to win the district.. Well fine. BUT this morning when asked about why he distanced himself from Nancy he said it was just time for new leadership.

Really? So who died and made him age boss?


I'm glad he won and I'm sure once he gets in office he will understand that experience..not age...counts.

It will be nice when we can stop spending all this time educating neophytes.

[ismnotwasm]

162. I think it goes beyond neophytes

I’m not sure why people who love or at least are very interested in politics seem to not understand them very well.

[EffieBlack]

170. Good Lord how right you are

And the ones who know the least think they are the experts.

[samnsara]

153. nope

[NewJeffCT]

164. The top 3 people in the House

on the Democratic side are older - Pelosi, Hoyer and Clyburn. #3 Crowley is a spring chicken at 55.

I don't think this is the way to go

[EffieBlack]

175. Because experience is SO overrated in a complicated institution driven by complicated

arcane rules and critical long-standing relationships.

[msdogi]

165. Please, we need to work together

Every democrat brings their own set of skills, abilities and experience. Let's ask all Democrats to contribute what they can to our efforts to take back our beloved country. Nancy Pelosi is a very strong, experienced woman of intelligence, grace and resolve. While there is much to be said for youthful enthusiasm and energy, I believe the wisdom of experience is earned, and invaluable. I will stand with Nancy, and with all Democrats who truly have an important role to play in our recovery from this nightmare.

[Tarc]

166. Sorry, millennials, party leadership spots aren't handed out like participation trophies

By all means challenge Pelosi for the Speaker's gavel if we take back the House in the fall, but this isn't a recess swingset, you don't "get your turn".

Defeat her in a leadership election. Earn it.

[scheming daemons]

169. I am saying that if she announces she won't run for speakership before midterms, it could increase

..our seat gains substantially.

That makes it much more likely that there will be a Speaker's gavel to challenge for.

[BannonsLiver]

182. It makes sense to me

But hey why apply logic to a situation like this when it's easier to just post twaddle about participation trophies.

[left-of-center2012]

168. You must have known ...

You must have known speaking against the established hierarchy would bring down attacks upon you?
(No matter that you are correct)

[scheming daemons]

171. It is ok... a robust debate on this is necessary. We're all Democrats.

I want to hear what others say on it.


I just think it is time for a new look Democratic party.... with new faces leading it.

[left-of-center2012]

188. I'm old enough to remember the election of JFK ...

... and how it was depicted as passing the torch to a younger generation.
We looked upon it as a good thing.

[TrollBuster9090]

180. That's what I find most ironic.

The fact that this is the Democratic UNDERGROUND, meaning the views expressed here are usually more radical than the Party establishment. But whenever somebody says something critical of the established Party leadership, we see a re-enactment of the CICERO MURDER SCENE from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.

(Footnote: This principle doesn't apply to Hillary Clinton. It's always open season on her. But the other old duffers at the DNC Polit Bureau are strictly off limits.)

[TrollBuster9090]

174. And...let the PILE ON commence....

I don't feel that strongly about it either way, but I do get tired of people at DU getting stoned to death every time they dare to mention that maybe more young people from around the country might be attracted to the Democratic Party if it wasn't lead by people in their 70s, who are always from either California or New York.

[erpowers]

176. Nancy Pelosi Is Not the Problem

The Republicans tried to use Nancy Pelosi against Connor Lamb, but it did not work. That shows Nancy Pelosi is not the real problem for Democrats. If Pelosi says she will not run for leadership in the House, Republicans will either continue to attack her or just attack the next person who steps up to lead the Democratic Party.

[EffieBlack]

181. We dont like your leader. Damn! they dont like our leader! Lets get rid of her and get

another one!”

Off with her head. NEXT!

“NOW do you like our new leader?”

“No.”

“Shit! We must not have done it right. We’d better try this again.”

Off with his head! NEXT

“OK. We think you’ll be happy this time. How’s THIS one?”

“We hate her, too.”

“I just don’t understand what we’re doing wrong here.”

[TrollBuster9090]

192. Sounds a little hyperbolic to me.

Pelosi is nearly EIGHTY years old, and has been the leader of the House Democrats for FIFTEEN YEARS. That's hardly an example of an "Off with her head...NEXT" situation.

I know that eighty is the new sixty these days, but one day the entire Democratic leadership is going to suddenly drop dead, because...you know...biology, and there will have been absolutely no replacements groomed from the next generation.

If you don't believe me, HOWARD DEAD (one of my heroes) said exactly the same thing.

[EffieBlack]

208. Not at all

If the issue were only her age, that would be one thing. But one of the primary excuses given for calling for her ouster is that she's supposedly a "lightning rod" for Republicans who have come to hate her and, that if we change leadership to someone less "divisive," we'll have an easier time winning elections in red America. My point addresses that argument and is spot on.

[BadgerMom]

179. Politely, I disagree.

We should showcase and train our young Democrats to be the party leaders of the future. But those with experience and expertise should not be shoved aside when we need their know-how most. They have served and learned. Too often we are a throw away society and that includes with our oldest and most knowledgeable.

Also, I don’t believe that in November any voter will be more energized because Pelosi promises to stand aside. Voters are energized by their opposition to and disgust at the Republicans.

Finally, yes, I own these feelings personally. In our 60s now, active and involved, others treat us differently. There is a diminishment by our society that must be resisted. This is an example.

[TheSmarterDog]

183. Right, let's get rid of all the successful Democrats.

We don't need their obvious leadership & political skills.

[Boomer]

191. Thank you. This. n/t

[bucolic_frolic]

184. Sometimes you need wisdom and experience and judgment rather than resonation

public opinion is fickle and can lead to disastrous results like deplorables electing Donald Trump

He drew dumb Archie Bunker types into politics for the first time in decades, and they believed him and they voted for him. Now they've lost interest.

[infullview]

187. I'm going on the theory that the dems take both house and senate

and immediately start impeachment hearing for both tRump and pence. If that's the case we want a speaker who can also be presidential

[Motley13]

190. They always have to find some stong woman to hate, Hillary is not in contention, so it's Pelosi,

Warren, Feinstein

[BannonsLiver]

193. Tell that to Al Franken.

[erlewyne]

194. What are you talking about?

I started voting in 1968! The first president ever younger than
me was OBAMA! And look what he's done.

On second thought ... yeah, he was the best.

[spike jones]

196. " Impeachment is off the table."

“I have said it before and I will say it again: Impeachment is off the table,” Pelosi, D-Calif., said during a news conference. Pelosi also said Democrats, despite complaining about years of unfair treatment by the majority GOP, “are not about getting even” with Republicans.

"Has she ever said she's sorry for leaving this so undone?"

[Motley13]

200. Pelosi appeared with the young people protesting gun violence

the woman is smart.
I'm certainly not opposed to someone younger, they just have to be as good as she is.

[Awsi Dooger]

201. Pelosi is a convenient target for Republican simpletons

And that is indeed a big plus for them. My Republican friends from Las Vegas don't know a damn thing about politics but all of them know the name Nancy Pelosi. And they despise her. Second only to Hillary.

We should replace Pelosi with a younger white male, preferably charismatic but mostly harmless would be a help also. I would not attach a 60 age limit, through. Many people are still very young into their 60s.

We don't need a rock star speaker.

BTW, the 40-50 and 70-80 estimates are way too high. Massively too high. I think results like last night are allowing too much overconfidence. I would sign up for +30 right now. We will not have the turnout advantage from a special election in a full fledged midterm with so much money and emphasis from both sides. Trump's approval rating is also a variable and no guarantee it doesn't continue to slowly rise. Normalcy would indicate a likely rise. Very seldom do presidents sustain that type of low approval number.

[LovingA2andMI]

204. It's Time....

For New Democratic Leadership in the U.S. House and Senate if Democrats gain control of one or both chambers.

[bettyellen]

207. Its not a mainstream Dem district, so no. We dont oppose gun control because of them either.

We don’t get our direction from small conservative districts. He’d have to haveprobelems with the next speaker of the house, who ever that might be too.
It’s a job that requires experience and strong relationships in order to be effective. When we get majorities we’ll be in a better position. Right now-nope.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

211. Lamb proved Seth Mouton correct.

The Marines have landed. The progressives in the Corps have built in leadership qualities. After last year's losses in 4 races, Moulton made a great case...

https://www.npr.org/2017/06/27/534597209/rep-seth-moulton-calls-for-new-leadership-of-the-democratic-party

[nini]

213. OFFS

Pelosi is a smart, well seasoned leader.

[radius777]

214. The modern Dem party is a cosmopolitan center-left party

and Pelosi/Schumer reflect that, which is the main reason they are disliked by conservatives, whose retro worldview is fundamentally at odds with that.

Look at any 'electoral map by county' results and it is clear that most Dem votes come from metro areas, i.e. cities and their surrounding suburbs. This holds true across the country, even in red states and fly-over country. (the flipside is true about rural areas, GOP wins them even in blue states).

Thus, any leadership (even if Schumer and Pelosi retire, which I think they should) should reflect that.. would need to appeal more heavily to the true base of our party which is not heartland populists but metropolitan liberals, suburban moderates, PoC, LGBTQ, women, immigrants, youth, etc.

We're not going back to the Dixiecrat era simply to appease conservative Dems who want to live in the past.

Dems in conservative areas have always been allowed to moderate their positions and "run against leadership", usually with the consent of leadership; this is not new. (Repubs do the same thing in blue areas).

[Sparkly]

216. Whatevs.

All we can control is getting Democrats back into the majority.

After that, the Democratic Majority will get to argue amongst themselves.

We can argue amongst ourselves right now, but the energy is better spent working on local politics and getting out the vote.