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Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:24 AM

 

We should reach out and understand Nazis and KKK members too.

Yeah. Fuck that Fuck them NO THANKS

102 replies, 6927 views

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Reply We should reach out and understand Nazis and KKK members too. (Original post)
elehhhhna Mar 2018 OP
Anon-C Mar 2018 #1
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #12
heaven05 Mar 2018 #19
MichMary Mar 2018 #30
Anon-C Mar 2018 #31
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #82
Anon-C Mar 2018 #87
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #90
Anon-C Mar 2018 #21
LAS14 Mar 2018 #75
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #81
LAS14 Mar 2018 #94
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #34
ck4829 Mar 2018 #2
unblock Mar 2018 #3
Tom Rinaldo Mar 2018 #4
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #8
Tom Rinaldo Mar 2018 #36
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #59
John Fante Mar 2018 #66
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #67
John Fante Mar 2018 #68
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #69
EffieBlack Mar 2018 #73
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #76
EffieBlack Mar 2018 #78
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #79
EffieBlack Mar 2018 #80
Me. Mar 2018 #5
dalton99a Mar 2018 #6
Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #7
Progressive dog Mar 2018 #9
Progressive dog Mar 2018 #10
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #11
ck4829 Mar 2018 #15
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #16
heaven05 Mar 2018 #22
IronLionZion Mar 2018 #13
Egnever Mar 2018 #14
ck4829 Mar 2018 #18
njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #54
backtoblue Mar 2018 #17
Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #20
backtoblue Mar 2018 #23
heaven05 Mar 2018 #24
Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #26
heaven05 Mar 2018 #29
EffieBlack Mar 2018 #45
Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #49
njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #56
elehhhhna Mar 2018 #61
Gothmog Mar 2018 #25
backscatter712 Mar 2018 #27
DBoon Mar 2018 #28
griloco Mar 2018 #32
askyagerz Mar 2018 #33
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #35
askyagerz Mar 2018 #37
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #42
askyagerz Mar 2018 #44
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #48
askyagerz Mar 2018 #51
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #53
askyagerz Mar 2018 #58
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #60
askyagerz Mar 2018 #62
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #64
askyagerz Mar 2018 #65
ck4829 Mar 2018 #71
askyagerz Mar 2018 #72
ck4829 Mar 2018 #88
rockfordfile Mar 2018 #86
askyagerz Mar 2018 #91
ck4829 Mar 2018 #99
rockfordfile Mar 2018 #84
askyagerz Mar 2018 #89
EffieBlack Mar 2018 #47
askyagerz Mar 2018 #57
DinahMoeHum Mar 2018 #38
workinclasszero Mar 2018 #43
lame54 Mar 2018 #39
jalan48 Mar 2018 #40
lunatica Mar 2018 #41
EffieBlack Mar 2018 #63
lunatica Mar 2018 #85
Gore1FL Mar 2018 #46
Mad_Mongol Mar 2018 #50
haele Mar 2018 #52
Iggo Mar 2018 #55
Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #70
ck4829 Mar 2018 #74
Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #97
LAS14 Mar 2018 #77
YessirAtsaFact Mar 2018 #83
VOX Mar 2018 #92
ck4829 Mar 2018 #96
VOX Mar 2018 #100
YessirAtsaFact Mar 2018 #98
VOX Mar 2018 #101
mcar Mar 2018 #93
ck4829 Mar 2018 #95
VOX Mar 2018 #102

Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:28 AM

1. Especially now that they are delivering exploding packages.

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Response to Anon-C (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:55 AM

12. I'm sure you have no evidence for that at the time of your writing.


Otherwise you'd give it now or sooner.

It is non-progressive to state speculation as if it were fact. That is something that the other side does frequently.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:06 PM

19. All packages

 

delivered to homes where minorities live. Everything after that FACT might be speculation.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:37 PM

30. The latest one

was left by the side of the road and activated by a tripwire. Could have harmed anyone.

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Response to MichMary (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:51 PM

31. ...

The police asked for the bomber(s) to send a message and the bomber(s) responded with a weapon of increased sophistication. Just because these last two victims weren't black or Latino doesn't mean the perps didn't target them or that they weren't hoping to signal something else entirely.

I just hope the FBI catches them!

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Response to Anon-C (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:43 PM

82. The neighborhood is upscale and predominantly white. Knocks down your speculation. . . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #82)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:25 PM

87. Just hope they stop this bomber!

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Response to Anon-C (Reply #87)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:40 PM

90. +1. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:08 PM

21. ...

Fair enough.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:23 PM

75. That is a point worth really pushing. I used to be clearly...

Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)

....proud of the "fact???" that progressives didn't engage in the stupid stereotyping that the other side did so frequently. Over the last few days I've begun to seriously doubt that I had good reason for this. But I've been watching carefully, and the nutty "fuck them all" rampage I've been paying so much attention to is really confined to a few threads. There's pretty much good, interesting stuff on DU. I was losing sigh of it because I felt an obligation to stand up to this kind of craziness.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #75)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:42 PM

81. +1.


"sight"

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #81)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:09 PM

94. :-) Thanks much. That's happening more and more often....

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Response to Anon-C (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:13 PM

34. But...but..we must understand the poor deplorable terrorists of death as they bomb and murder PoC!!

 

They just have...uh...white skin and...economic anxiety...yeah that's it!

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:28 AM

2. I say "Let's find a cure for affluenza" though and no Republicans or pundits want to reach out to me

And I'm pretty sure that isn't even the "other side" of resuming the 'final solution', forming some sort of psycho inbred ethno-state, or thinking a total war with a religion that has a billion and a half people in it would be "nifty", just IMHO.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:28 AM

3. generally speaking, what they understand is losing and getting thrown into prison.

i think that's what we should shoot for.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:29 AM

4. We should win elections, because winning matters

I haven't seen many Nazi or KKK sympathizers on this board. I think we pretty much all agree on our values. There is some debate on priorities and that debate is needed. But a discussion that doesn't include a strategy for taking back full control of government is a diversion from the task at hand.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:35 AM

8. It doesnt matter how many elections we win if a solid portions of this country are ready to kill eac

 

Other instead of try to understand each other.

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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:24 PM

36. No, actually it does

The person who controls the Presidency can decide when where and why the National Guard gets deployed. That Guard can defy George Wallace trying to block the entryway to a school or it can throw freedom riders into jail for interfering with "lawful commerce".

Meanwhile tens of thousands of people live and die based on legislation that passes or is stopped from passing. The full repeal of Obamacare was stopped by one vote in the U.S. Senate. Elections do matter even when hatred remains rampant in large sectors of the nation..

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:36 PM

59. Laws are abstract concepts based on trust in the fabric of society

 

If people decide to no longer trust society, lawsand those who make them stop mattering. Unless you want a complete dissolution of society, we need to constantly speak to those who disagree with us.

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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #59)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:16 PM

66. Knock yourself out. I wouldn't piss on a white supremacist

if he/she was on fire.

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Response to John Fante (Reply #66)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:23 PM

67. That is the root of the problem. The more they are ghosted

 

And ignored, the stronger their hatreds will grow. You may have interacted with white supremacists far more often than you think, but they know you wouldnt talk to them if you knew they were white supremacists...

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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #67)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:34 PM

68. Tell you what - I'll focus on reaching out to the various minority classes currently

Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:21 PM - Edit history (2)

being ghosted in Trump's America, you focus on reaching out to white supremacists. Deal?

As a matter of fact, an economically anxious Nazi fuck recently spray-painted a swastika on the wall of a synagogue my friend regularly attends. I think I'll give my friend a call - I'll reach out to him, the authorities can "reach out" to the Nazi fuck.

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Response to John Fante (Reply #68)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:37 PM

69. You should. They should have an idea how their actions made people feel.

 

Because they still fail to recognize other human beings as people, your reaching out to them can serve as a reminder of that fact.

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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #69)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:07 PM

73. Because the people who terrorize people don't know how that makes people feel?

It makes them feel TERROR. That's the point.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #73)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:23 PM

76. Believe it or not they dont.

 

Because they dont believe the people they terrorize are people. And if they are not people, they cannot feel. The only way they can know that is if somebody lets them know.

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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #76)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:27 PM

78. Then knock yourself out trying to educate them that I'm a human being.

But don't even THINK of trying to bring them anywhere near me or my party. And stop telling me that I'm supposed to put up with you or anyone else trying to force them on me.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #78)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:32 PM

79. Oh no im not telling you that in any respect.

 

But you do need to acknowledge that they too are human, regardless of how unhuman they are behaving. Trying to pretend they dont exist isnt going to change the fact that they do. And one way or another we are going to have to acknowledge them.

And for the record, I am "knocking myself out."

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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #79)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:34 PM

80. I've never denied they're humans. I just don't care to associate with those particular humans who

don't acknowledge my humanity.

There's a big difference between trying to teach racist terrorist to change their ways and inviting them to join your political party.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:30 AM

5. Or Running People Over To Their Death

Just Jm Dandy

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:32 AM

6. One must be fair and balanced

Very fine people may exercise poor judgment sometimes - but they are very fine people and we must respect that



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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:42 AM

9. Probably not nt

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:51 AM

10. The orange camel already is

warm in the tent, it's not a good idea to invite the herd in.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:52 AM

11. "understand" does not mean "sympathize". Understanding enemies is important. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:57 AM

15. If you're into understanding your enemies, then become an editor at the Right Wing Infopedia

http://rw-infopedia.pbworks.com/w/page/4604201/FrontPage

Send me a PM, I can get you ready to go in a couple of minutes.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:58 AM

16. No thanks. I do enough reading on RW sites to understand more about them than many DU members. . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:09 PM

22. really

 

I'm....aaahh never mind.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:56 AM

13. Some famous Nazis studied and tried to understand their victims

to find better ways to destroy them.

And there is a black man who befriended KKK members and got many of them to leave. https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:57 AM

14. The art of war

 

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be put at risk even in a hundred battles.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:05 PM

18. Another place for a plug for the wiki

http://rw-infopedia.pbworks.com/w/page/4604201/FrontPage

"Know your enemies and know yourself", it can be done.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:17 PM

54. I grew up with them, It's not that complicated

Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.
We failed miserably in this tactic.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:01 PM

17. These are sick times

These are the people who were put into a bubble of false information, stoking their psychological predistributions. Some will come to their senses I believe. Love trumps hate. Sure, there are those so full of hate that they can't be reached. But I am increasingly concerned about the psychological warfare used to put their ideologies into action.
Trump and corporate fascists are responsible for picking at the scabs of division.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:06 PM

20. There've been lots of African Americans who have gone to understand KKK members

And have helped to pull them out from that.

Similar with people who fell under the Nazi interest stuff and found their way out of it.

But hey, pure dismissiveness is a wonderful liberal trait.

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:10 PM

23. +1 for the broader picture nt

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:13 PM

24. lots of AA helped KKK members

 

come to their senses. Can you prove that?

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #26)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:34 PM

29. well maybe

 

It's semantic disagreement here...I prefer some rather than "a lot".

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:49 PM

45. That's fine and important if people choose to do that as individuals

It should NOT be the strategy of a political party and that includes substantial numbers of minorities in its base.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #45)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:01 PM

49. Who said strategy as a political party? The OP was speaking as an individual.

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:21 PM

56. Snarky but funny

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:50 PM

61. Feel free to go do that

 

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:13 PM

25. K&R

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:23 PM

27. Yeah, I'll reach out...

...with a swinging fist.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:24 PM

28. we should take a skinhead bowling, too

Nt

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:08 PM

32. Where is...when you need

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:09 PM

33. Kind of like saying all fighting pit bulls should be put down

When the majority can be rehabbed when introduced into a loving environment. These people need to be shown the light. We can either be the bigger people or let the culture continue.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #33)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:20 PM

35. Quite a big difference between a human being and a dog

 

Don't you think?

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:30 PM

37. No

There isn't. Both can be trained and untrained. History tells us that. The whole point of Cambridge Analyitica was to exploit this fact... And it worked.

People really can't help the environments they are living in. Many of them lack the critical thinking skills to get themselves out or to even realize how wrong they are.

We are a product of our enviroment. Our schools purposely keep people dumb. Can the few who got out really blame the ones who didn't? The only thing we can do is lead by example. Even if they are constantly nipping at our feet.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #37)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:38 PM

42. "We are a product of our environment." I call BS on that!

 

If we are solely a product of our environment I should be a fox news/hate radio redneck fascist racist Trump republican scumbag and I assure you, I am not!!!

I'm an old white male working class, High school dropout(GED), Christian, gun owner, military veteran, wage slave till the day I die, WTF am I not a faithful MAGA asswipe then?

I don't hate people because of the color of their skin, that's why! I'm not a fuckin nazi lover either! My daddy fought those filth in WW2 he was OG antifa! And I have much pride in him for that!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:49 PM

44. You also keep company with people from DU

You are not in their isolated bubble. The majority of these people would be completely different if they were raised in loving, non prejudice well to do home. Hell the majority would be different if fox news was never created. You can call B.S. all you want but its human nature.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:58 PM

48. Well to do home? LOL

 

That's a good one. If you knew me and where I came from you would never say I came from a well to do family or that I'm in one now LOL

But you have no way of knowing that so yeah. It made me laugh though!

My parents never taught us to hate a person based on the color of their skin, I'll give you that.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:08 PM

51. I wasn't talking about you.

I said the majority of racist people wouldn't be racist if their drunk poor dad wasn't around to beat it into them. You know I'm right. Most racist aren't inherently bad. Just ignorant.
I'm the baby of 9. My racist dad had more influence over all my older brothers and they all have racist tendicies. I was raised much later and more by my mom and dont have a racist bone in my body. Of course there are offbeat examples but when looking at societal problems I like to step back and try to look at things as a whole.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #51)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:16 PM

53. When you are a child you can get a pass for being raised wrong

 

At the age of 18 to 21 then it's all on you.

If they choose to continue to be a racist hater or a hundred other evil things, its all on them!

They chose it so fuck the deplorables that are adults. They are scum to me and not worth trying to 'understand' or sympathize with that's for damn sure!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #53)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:30 PM

58. How do you know something is wrong

When everyone else around is saying how right it is?
Look just because you and I might know algebra doesn't give us the right to put down the guy who's parents taught him 2+2=5 and has never had the chance to even open an algebra book.
Since we have the knowledge its our responsibility to teach. You might see racism as pure hate but I see it as a flaw.
So according to you was all of Germany was just racist scum or did they fall into a trance by people exploiting their fears?

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #58)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:39 PM

60. This is the age of the internet

 

They can choose to bury their heads in Fox news/drudge/Breitbart/freakrepublic.

Or they can choose Democratic Underground/Daily KOS/Rachel Maddow, to name a few.

It's a choice we all make as adults everyday.

They make their choice everyday, only they can change it IMO.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #60)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:51 PM

62. Wrong its what makes me and you progressive

In many ways we are ahead of our time. You say you are christian? See but I feel I am ahead of you in denouncing organized religion. Tribleism and religion are both just about deep seeded human fears. People are just naturally afraid of the unknown. Some people have a real fear of other cultures.
I can say hey Christians. Look at the internet at all of this stuff that disproves god. But I doubt you would have anything to do with that right?
We as humans are still pretty close to animals and progressing just means realising we are not perfect and have many flaws. Some of us can cover those flaws better then others given how we were raised or our overall intelligence.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #62)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:01 PM

64. I denounce organized religion too

 

I follow Jesus Christ, not some republican mega church con man.

Dr Martin Luther King was a Christian preacher. The Reverend Ralph Abernathy marched for justice at his side as did many other Christians like John Lewis and Jewish rabbis.

I think your tribalism is showing now.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #64)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:09 PM

65. Its all part of the same story

You obviously don't understand Tribleism.
First, there are no deep human atheist beliefs. Its something you learn through observation.
Second, not many atheists to follow in America. Kind of a nomad thing.
Third, not believing in something doesn't put you in any category. Should I say we are in the tribe of Not flat earthers?

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #65)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:37 PM

71. You very well could though. These labels are just socially constructed things anyway.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #71)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:45 PM

72. Labels are used to identify

Why would we identify not being part of a miniscule group? Labels do have a purpose so why muddy the waters? If the majority of the people are outside your bubble there is probably a reason they label you.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #72)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:31 PM

88. Yes they are used to identify but they are always being constructed

Play with them.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #58)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:23 PM

86. There's no excuse this day and age to be a bigot and racist fascist pos.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #86)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:45 PM

91. Science and anthropology say otherwise

I don't know what magical day and age you all think humans are living in. Look around the world. They obviously haven't got it figured out yet. Seriously still mostly territorial, selfish, lying animals that prey to sky fairies and believe in ghosts

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #91)

Tue Mar 20, 2018, 08:46 AM

99. "Religion and ghosts are ridiculous" as we kill each other for green pieces of paper

That only have value because we agree that they have value.

(We also kill ourselves through overworking and not taking sick days for these same green pieces of paper.)

As we kill each other over imaginary border lines.

As we kill each other over artificial racial and ethnic designations.

As "outsiders" who defy norms and expectations over constructed gender rules and roles are killed and made into unpeople through forced surgeries at birth, conversion therapy, violence, and more.

And... There are also those who don't kill and wouldn't even think about it. People of different religions, different colors, different nations, different economic backgrounds, different sexual identities, etc. come together. As much as the horrors I have seen in the past many years, I have also seen things that give me hope, why I am still an idealist. It's why there is no excuse. I am willing to reach out to former Trump supporters, question is, will they reach back and also reach out to those who are different from them?

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:18 PM

84. Nope bs. These people are scumbags. They are old enough to know better. No excuses

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #84)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:38 PM

89. Yep large swaths of the population and complete regions

Portions of our families... All scumbags.
Yet here we are complaining about trump and the Russians tricking people. I guess it didn't matter one way or another if people are just inherently evil anyway. People can be tricked or people can't. But we can't have it both ways.
I try to put myself in everyone's shoes. That includes the ignorant. If you grew up where I did you would understand some of these people never did have a chance to be civilized. Instead of some liberals helping and asking what they need, they belittle them and their culture. It's not that hard to be the bigger person.
Why do we as progressives put so much credence on education? Because we know too little will create gaps in society. These people are in the gaps. If they had the sense to get themselves out at a certain age we wouldn't need education cause it would just come to us one day... Well it doesn't. Especially people struggling just to live. Humans should learn throughout their whole lives. Sometimes it takes some people longer then others.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #33)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:55 PM

47. But if I he a pack of gentle, well-behaved dogs, including lots of rescue dogs who have sought refug

with me, you had better not show up with a handful of pitbulls, some of whom have already mauled and killed other dogs, and insist I take them in with the rest of my dogs because some pits are really gentle.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #47)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:21 PM

57. I have seen almost every dog nip at something

From little to big. Its in their nature. The majority of dog attacks are usually by a family pet. But dogs are here to stay.
You can try to bite them back but it just confuses them and you're gonna get hair in your mouth. If we have to keep them around I prefer we just train them right.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:33 PM

38. Arnold Schwarenegger has a message for them. . .

"Your Heroes are LOSERS"

&t=112s

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #38)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:48 PM

43. Nice video

 

How was Arnold ever a republican?

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:34 PM

39. I can do ya one better...

I'm having lunch with Roy Moore tomorrow

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:36 PM

40. The elections are a little more than seven months away.

I thought the purpose of this website was to elect more Democrats. It appears it’s devolving into a “I hate you” board. Unless we’re preparing for physical confrontation what’s the point of focusing on the voters rather than the candidates and the issues?

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:36 PM

41. To understand does not mean to condone

If you don’t understand the enemy in war it means you’re fighting blind and hobbled.

Understanding something is not the same as sympathizing with it it.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #41)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:01 PM

63. I didnt say we sholdnt understand them. I already understand them all too well

If you still don’t understand them already, why not listen to the people on your side who already do?

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #63)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:22 PM

85. Ive long since understood these people

I gave up trying to convince them of anything 30 years ago when I had a pleasant conversation with a woman about politics. She seemed to be listening and started to agree with the facts I was giving her after she made a really uninformed statement. I felt like I had won her over and we stayed friendly.

Except the very next time I saw her she made the exact same uninformed statement again. She had no idea or memory of our long recent conversation. I realized a huge truth that day and have never bothered to waste my time on willfully ignorant people again.

I am with you 100%!

She had made up her mind and who was I to confuse her with facts?

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:50 PM

46. Wow! Hyperbole!

This is the type of thread that makes DU awesome because it addresses and solves such a controversial issue!

Yay!

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:02 PM

50. Sure we should!

...with molten lead hot pokers.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:12 PM

52. I do understand them. They're fear-filled people who want to live in an ordered snowglobe.

Their preferred world is very, very small and predictable. Since they don't feel like they're properly respected outside of their preferred world, they want to get rid of anything that upsets their sense of control and authority.

So yah, I understand them. And I want to reach out and give their little snowglobe world a big old shake, maybe break it so they come tumbling out and have to deal with the real world on it's terms, not theirs.

Haele

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:18 PM

55. I hear some of them are very fine people.

I assume they're just misunderstood.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:00 PM

70. Stepping off into absurdity

The actual posts that I've seen are along these lines:

We need all the voters we can get. It is stupid to intentionally alienate Trump voters/supporters, who might be discovering the error of their ways, by calling them all racist.


These posts are being characterized as:

We should be engaging in a Trump supporter/voter outreach campaign.


Not the same thing. You see that, right?

Urging an end to broad-brush name calling (no energy spend at all)

is not the same thing as

Urging others to spend time and energy on conversion (investing time and energy that are better spent elsewhere chasing after a low-return group of voters).

Your post goes one step farther into absurdity by hyperbolicly mocking a non-existent call for a Trump voter outreach campaign by suggesting we also deploy this non-existent campaign to recruiting the worst of the worst racists.

How about we actually try to talk to each other, without mischaracterizing and mocking each other's positions. Strawmen are easy and fun to knock down, but that activity is not terribly helpful if we actually want to work together to win elections.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #70)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:09 PM

74. We're just now stepping into absurdity?

So what was it when the smaller group of people chose a morally and financially bankrupt reality TV star to sit in the oval office, or we have government experts who think "good national security" means "sure there is a mass shooter, but at least he's white", or the whole "I'll vote for a sex offender with visions of some sort of fascist theocracy over some commie Democrat to own the libs" that we saw in Alabama?

This whole government is absurd, this whole anti-liberal agenda is absurd, and this state sponsored paranoia is absurd. That is what absurdity looks like.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #74)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 08:33 PM

97. Well I certainly hope that "we" on this site were not stepping off

into that particular absurdity.

I have higher expectations for progressives and yes, based on those expectations, it is absurd to mock a suggestion that using broad brush insults does not help our cause by encouraging us to reach out to nazis & KKK members.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #70)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:27 PM

77. Yes, please. Let's talk to each other, which involves respecting...

... the poster enough to pay attention to what they really said.

Thanks again, Ms. Toad.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:04 PM

83. The implication here is that Trump voters are the equivalent of KKK and Nazis. They are not.

Please leave the false equivalence to Faux Noos.

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Response to YessirAtsaFact (Reply #83)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:01 PM

92. Bone up on the rise of the Third Reich. The parallels are sobering.

I’m rather certain that runaway nationalism, racism, xenophobia, military parades, misogyny, 24/7 state-messaging on a major “news” network, denouncing and defaming legitimate information sources, tolerance (and encouragement) of white supremacy, a stated desire to damage defeated political opponents, continuing “rallies” to whip up anger and resentment for minorities and Democrats, etc., etc. all constitute a far-right totalitarian regime. The fascism fail-safe point has been passed, and a certain segment of Americans are overjoyed by that sad fact.

Put it this way: Maybe all Trump supporters aren’t nazis or KKK, but it’s pretty obvious that all neo-nazis and white supremacists are big Trump supporters. And the others are complicit in their silence.

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Response to VOX (Reply #92)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:14 PM

96. Yep, there were plenty of "neutral"/"good" Germans who just stood there and let it all happen

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #96)

Wed Mar 21, 2018, 08:00 AM

100. Precisely. The Nazis had to expend some serious time and effort on winning broad support.

But they had a twisted dream to sell, and they finally got their "customers" to buy in.

Which is why every day that 45 is in the picture constitutes a day that things could go horribly wrong, given the man's proven (again and again) impulsivity. He needs to GO.

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Response to VOX (Reply #92)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:30 PM

98. If they did polling at that time, I'm sure Hitler's approval ratings would have been more than 40%

There are other differences. The minorities he chose to scapegoat (Jews, Gypsies and gays) made up a very small part of Germany's population.

Non-white people made up almost 39% of US population in 2016, per census data. That's a lot of people to round up and take to camps.

The bottom line is that the Trump supporters may be ignorant and misguided, but the vast majority of them aren't Nazi or KKK.

The situation is too much like Germany for comfort, but comparing Trumpsters with Nazis/KKK is false equivalence.

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Response to YessirAtsaFact (Reply #98)

Wed Mar 21, 2018, 08:44 AM

101. In fact, in 1932, Hitler only received 36.8% of the vote, against von Hindenberg's 53%.

It took time, effort, propaganda, severe economic distress, and some behind-the-scenes lawlessness (including several murders) to move a majority of Germans to buy into Hitler's "vision." And while German Jews, Gypsies, communists and political prisoners were a small percentage of that country's total population, the Nazis nevertheless shipped such "undesirables" to death camps from the countries they occupied, from France all the way to the Russian Steppes. It's widely believed, based on available evidence, that the 6 million murdered may be a low-end estimate.

Yes, Trump's supporters are ignorant and misguided, but they also have alternative-viewpoint information outlets readily available to them if they were interested in hearing opposing ideas. But they're not. They stay locked into Fox, Breitbart, AM radio, etc., and never hear ANY opposing viewpoints during their average day. It's a steady diet of fear and anger, two addictive emotions -- be afraid of people of color, and be angry that they get shrift in this society. THAT is Fox Entertainment's meat-and-potatoes.

While only some of his supporters are out-and-out neo-nazis and white supremacists, a majority of them consider themselves superior to other ethnicities and cultures. It's unfolding right there in front of us: Trump rallies that whip up the idea of punishing political opponents (a very third-world practice), the demonizing of Latinos and African Americans, Confederate flag t-shirts, torchlight parades, support of Trump on American White Nationalist websites ("Heil Trump!", etc. The Trump supporters who do not participate directly in these hate groups are very slow to denounce them, if at all-- including Trump himself.

I think the equivalence here, while there are some degrees of contrast, is anything but false -- Germany was entirely consumed by a toxic and fatal ideology; the U.S., at present, via Trump and his alt-right/white-power buddies (Stephen Miller, and the still-available-by-phone Steve Bannon, to name two), have made a dangerous flirtation with overtly fascist ideas: de facto deportation ("travel ban", the threat of deportation ("They aren't sending their best...bringing drugs...crime. They're rapists...", the laughable but corrosively racist attempt to disenfranchise minority voters ("voter fraud", and lately, bald-faced authoritarianism-- snap decisions fraught with far-reaching implications-- that Trump makes without consulting any of his handlers. The fact that we have a president who NEEDS handlers should keep us awake at night.

This is our country's first fling with a far-right-wing president, administration and both houses of Congress. To date, the only office-holding Republicans to speak out against Trump have been Jeff Flake (retiring), John McCain (fighting aggressive cancer), and Lindsay Graham. Everyone else is either on board, or damnably silent, which is worse.

The American people are being forced to endure a battle for the "naming-rights" to reality itself. It remains to be seen whether the rule of law -- or far-right partisanship-- will prevail.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:05 PM

93. It is just absurd

that we are even having this discussion.

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Response to mcar (Reply #93)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:13 PM

95. It is.

"Trump is running for president"
"Trump got the nomination"
"Trump is now in the oval office"
"Very fine people"
"At least the shooter is white"
"'Sticking it to the liberals' as political discourse"
"Vote for Roy Moore, he's not a Democrat"

All absurd... but all reality.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #95)

Wed Mar 21, 2018, 09:04 AM

102. Bulls-eye.

Dead center.

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