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We should reach out and understand Nazis and KKK members too. (Original Post) elehhhhna Mar 2018 OP
Especially now that they are delivering exploding packages. Anon-C Mar 2018 #1
I'm sure you have no evidence for that at the time of your writing. Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #12
All packages heaven05 Mar 2018 #19
The latest one MichMary Mar 2018 #30
... Anon-C Mar 2018 #31
The neighborhood is upscale and predominantly white. Knocks down your speculation. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #82
Just hope they stop this bomber! Anon-C Mar 2018 #87
+1. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #90
... Anon-C Mar 2018 #21
That is a point worth really pushing. I used to be clearly... LAS14 Mar 2018 #75
+1. Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #81
:-) Thanks much. That's happening more and more often.... LAS14 Mar 2018 #94
But...but..we must understand the poor deplorable terrorists of death as they bomb and murder PoC!! workinclasszero Mar 2018 #34
I say "Let's find a cure for affluenza" though and no Republicans or pundits want to reach out to me ck4829 Mar 2018 #2
generally speaking, what they understand is losing and getting thrown into prison. unblock Mar 2018 #3
We should win elections, because winning matters Tom Rinaldo Mar 2018 #4
It doesnt matter how many elections we win if a solid portions of this country are ready to kill eac Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #8
No, actually it does Tom Rinaldo Mar 2018 #36
Laws are abstract concepts based on trust in the fabric of society Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #59
Knock yourself out. I wouldn't piss on a white supremacist John Fante Mar 2018 #66
That is the root of the problem. The more they are ghosted Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #67
Tell you what - I'll focus on reaching out to the various minority classes currently John Fante Mar 2018 #68
You should. They should have an idea how their actions made people feel. Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #69
Because the people who terrorize people don't know how that makes people feel? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #73
Believe it or not they dont. Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #76
Then knock yourself out trying to educate them that I'm a human being. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #78
Oh no im not telling you that in any respect. Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #79
I've never denied they're humans. I just don't care to associate with those particular humans who EffieBlack Mar 2018 #80
Or Running People Over To Their Death Me. Mar 2018 #5
One must be fair and balanced dalton99a Mar 2018 #6
Surely no good can come from that, right? Tiggeroshii Mar 2018 #7
Probably not nt Progressive dog Mar 2018 #9
The orange camel already is Progressive dog Mar 2018 #10
"understand" does not mean "sympathize". Understanding enemies is important. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #11
If you're into understanding your enemies, then become an editor at the Right Wing Infopedia ck4829 Mar 2018 #15
No thanks. I do enough reading on RW sites to understand more about them than many DU members. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #16
really heaven05 Mar 2018 #22
Some famous Nazis studied and tried to understand their victims IronLionZion Mar 2018 #13
The art of war Egnever Mar 2018 #14
Another place for a plug for the wiki ck4829 Mar 2018 #18
I grew up with them, It's not that complicated njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #54
These are sick times backtoblue Mar 2018 #17
There've been lots of African Americans who have gone to understand KKK members Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #20
+1 for the broader picture nt backtoblue Mar 2018 #23
lots of AA helped KKK members heaven05 Mar 2018 #24
Sure, it's in this thread as an example above Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #26
well maybe heaven05 Mar 2018 #29
That's fine and important if people choose to do that as individuals EffieBlack Mar 2018 #45
Who said strategy as a political party? The OP was speaking as an individual. Blue_Adept Mar 2018 #49
Snarky but funny njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #56
Feel free to go do that elehhhhna Mar 2018 #61
K&R Gothmog Mar 2018 #25
Yeah, I'll reach out... backscatter712 Mar 2018 #27
we should take a skinhead bowling, too DBoon Mar 2018 #28
Where is...when you need griloco Mar 2018 #32
Kind of like saying all fighting pit bulls should be put down askyagerz Mar 2018 #33
Quite a big difference between a human being and a dog workinclasszero Mar 2018 #35
No askyagerz Mar 2018 #37
"We are a product of our environment." I call BS on that! workinclasszero Mar 2018 #42
You also keep company with people from DU askyagerz Mar 2018 #44
Well to do home? LOL workinclasszero Mar 2018 #48
I wasn't talking about you. askyagerz Mar 2018 #51
When you are a child you can get a pass for being raised wrong workinclasszero Mar 2018 #53
How do you know something is wrong askyagerz Mar 2018 #58
This is the age of the internet workinclasszero Mar 2018 #60
Wrong its what makes me and you progressive askyagerz Mar 2018 #62
I denounce organized religion too workinclasszero Mar 2018 #64
Its all part of the same story askyagerz Mar 2018 #65
You very well could though. These labels are just socially constructed things anyway. ck4829 Mar 2018 #71
Labels are used to identify askyagerz Mar 2018 #72
Yes they are used to identify but they are always being constructed ck4829 Mar 2018 #88
There's no excuse this day and age to be a bigot and racist fascist pos. rockfordfile Mar 2018 #86
Science and anthropology say otherwise askyagerz Mar 2018 #91
"Religion and ghosts are ridiculous" as we kill each other for green pieces of paper ck4829 Mar 2018 #99
Nope bs. These people are scumbags. They are old enough to know better. No excuses rockfordfile Mar 2018 #84
Yep large swaths of the population and complete regions askyagerz Mar 2018 #89
But if I he a pack of gentle, well-behaved dogs, including lots of rescue dogs who have sought refug EffieBlack Mar 2018 #47
I have seen almost every dog nip at something askyagerz Mar 2018 #57
Arnold Schwarenegger has a message for them. . . DinahMoeHum Mar 2018 #38
Nice video workinclasszero Mar 2018 #43
I can do ya one better... lame54 Mar 2018 #39
The elections are a little more than seven months away. jalan48 Mar 2018 #40
To understand does not mean to condone lunatica Mar 2018 #41
I didnt say we sholdnt understand them. I already understand them all too well EffieBlack Mar 2018 #63
Ive long since understood these people lunatica Mar 2018 #85
Wow! Hyperbole! Gore1FL Mar 2018 #46
Sure we should! Mad_Mongol Mar 2018 #50
I do understand them. They're fear-filled people who want to live in an ordered snowglobe. haele Mar 2018 #52
I hear some of them are very fine people. Iggo Mar 2018 #55
Stepping off into absurdity Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #70
We're just now stepping into absurdity? ck4829 Mar 2018 #74
Well I certainly hope that "we" on this site were not stepping off Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #97
Yes, please. Let's talk to each other, which involves respecting... LAS14 Mar 2018 #77
The implication here is that Trump voters are the equivalent of KKK and Nazis. They are not. YessirAtsaFact Mar 2018 #83
Bone up on the rise of the Third Reich. The parallels are sobering. VOX Mar 2018 #92
Yep, there were plenty of "neutral"/"good" Germans who just stood there and let it all happen ck4829 Mar 2018 #96
Precisely. The Nazis had to expend some serious time and effort on winning broad support. VOX Mar 2018 #100
If they did polling at that time, I'm sure Hitler's approval ratings would have been more than 40% YessirAtsaFact Mar 2018 #98
In fact, in 1932, Hitler only received 36.8% of the vote, against von Hindenberg's 53%. VOX Mar 2018 #101
It is just absurd mcar Mar 2018 #93
It is. ck4829 Mar 2018 #95
Bulls-eye. VOX Mar 2018 #102

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,399 posts)
12. I'm sure you have no evidence for that at the time of your writing.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:55 AM
Mar 2018

Otherwise you'd give it now or sooner.

It is non-progressive to state speculation as if it were fact. That is something that the other side does frequently.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
19. All packages
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:06 AM
Mar 2018

delivered to homes where minorities live. Everything after that FACT might be speculation.

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
30. The latest one
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:37 AM
Mar 2018

was left by the side of the road and activated by a tripwire. Could have harmed anyone.

Anon-C

(3,429 posts)
31. ...
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:51 AM
Mar 2018

The police asked for the bomber(s) to send a message and the bomber(s) responded with a weapon of increased sophistication. Just because these last two victims weren't black or Latino doesn't mean the perps didn't target them or that they weren't hoping to signal something else entirely.

I just hope the FBI catches them!

LAS14

(13,734 posts)
75. That is a point worth really pushing. I used to be clearly...
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:23 PM
Mar 2018

Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:08 PM - Edit history (1)

....proud of the "fact???" that progressives didn't engage in the stupid stereotyping that the other side did so frequently. Over the last few days I've begun to seriously doubt that I had good reason for this. But I've been watching carefully, and the nutty "fuck them all" rampage I've been paying so much attention to is really confined to a few threads. There's pretty much good, interesting stuff on DU. I was losing sigh of it because I felt an obligation to stand up to this kind of craziness.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
34. But...but..we must understand the poor deplorable terrorists of death as they bomb and murder PoC!!
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:13 PM
Mar 2018

They just have...uh...white skin and...economic anxiety...yeah that's it!

ck4829

(34,842 posts)
2. I say "Let's find a cure for affluenza" though and no Republicans or pundits want to reach out to me
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:28 AM
Mar 2018

And I'm pretty sure that isn't even the "other side" of resuming the 'final solution', forming some sort of psycho inbred ethno-state, or thinking a total war with a religion that has a billion and a half people in it would be "nifty", just IMHO.

unblock

(51,823 posts)
3. generally speaking, what they understand is losing and getting thrown into prison.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:28 AM
Mar 2018

i think that's what we should shoot for.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,909 posts)
4. We should win elections, because winning matters
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:29 AM
Mar 2018

I haven't seen many Nazi or KKK sympathizers on this board. I think we pretty much all agree on our values. There is some debate on priorities and that debate is needed. But a discussion that doesn't include a strategy for taking back full control of government is a diversion from the task at hand.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
8. It doesnt matter how many elections we win if a solid portions of this country are ready to kill eac
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:35 AM
Mar 2018

Other instead of try to understand each other.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,909 posts)
36. No, actually it does
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:24 PM
Mar 2018

The person who controls the Presidency can decide when where and why the National Guard gets deployed. That Guard can defy George Wallace trying to block the entryway to a school or it can throw freedom riders into jail for interfering with "lawful commerce".

Meanwhile tens of thousands of people live and die based on legislation that passes or is stopped from passing. The full repeal of Obamacare was stopped by one vote in the U.S. Senate. Elections do matter even when hatred remains rampant in large sectors of the nation..

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
59. Laws are abstract concepts based on trust in the fabric of society
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:36 PM
Mar 2018

If people decide to no longer trust society, lawsand those who make them stop mattering. Unless you want a complete dissolution of society, we need to constantly speak to those who disagree with us.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
67. That is the root of the problem. The more they are ghosted
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:23 PM
Mar 2018

And ignored, the stronger their hatreds will grow. You may have interacted with white supremacists far more often than you think, but they know you wouldnt talk to them if you knew they were white supremacists...

John Fante

(3,479 posts)
68. Tell you what - I'll focus on reaching out to the various minority classes currently
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:34 PM
Mar 2018

Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:21 PM - Edit history (2)

being ghosted in Trump's America, you focus on reaching out to white supremacists. Deal?

As a matter of fact, an economically anxious Nazi fuck recently spray-painted a swastika on the wall of a synagogue my friend regularly attends. I think I'll give my friend a call - I'll reach out to him, the authorities can "reach out" to the Nazi fuck.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
69. You should. They should have an idea how their actions made people feel.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:37 PM
Mar 2018

Because they still fail to recognize other human beings as people, your reaching out to them can serve as a reminder of that fact.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
73. Because the people who terrorize people don't know how that makes people feel?
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:07 PM
Mar 2018

It makes them feel TERROR. That's the point.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
76. Believe it or not they dont.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:23 PM
Mar 2018

Because they dont believe the people they terrorize are people. And if they are not people, they cannot feel. The only way they can know that is if somebody lets them know.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
78. Then knock yourself out trying to educate them that I'm a human being.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:27 PM
Mar 2018

But don't even THINK of trying to bring them anywhere near me or my party. And stop telling me that I'm supposed to put up with you or anyone else trying to force them on me.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
79. Oh no im not telling you that in any respect.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:32 PM
Mar 2018

But you do need to acknowledge that they too are human, regardless of how unhuman they are behaving. Trying to pretend they dont exist isnt going to change the fact that they do. And one way or another we are going to have to acknowledge them.

And for the record, I am "knocking myself out."

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
80. I've never denied they're humans. I just don't care to associate with those particular humans who
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:34 PM
Mar 2018

don't acknowledge my humanity.

There's a big difference between trying to teach racist terrorist to change their ways and inviting them to join your political party.

dalton99a

(80,531 posts)
6. One must be fair and balanced
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:32 AM
Mar 2018

Very fine people may exercise poor judgment sometimes - but they are very fine people and we must respect that



ck4829

(34,842 posts)
15. If you're into understanding your enemies, then become an editor at the Right Wing Infopedia
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:57 AM
Mar 2018
http://rw-infopedia.pbworks.com/w/page/4604201/FrontPage

Send me a PM, I can get you ready to go in a couple of minutes.

IronLionZion

(45,031 posts)
13. Some famous Nazis studied and tried to understand their victims
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:56 AM
Mar 2018

to find better ways to destroy them.

And there is a black man who befriended KKK members and got many of them to leave. https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
14. The art of war
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:57 AM
Mar 2018

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be put at risk even in a hundred battles.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

njhoneybadger

(3,910 posts)
54. I grew up with them, It's not that complicated
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:17 PM
Mar 2018

Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.
We failed miserably in this tactic.

backtoblue

(11,257 posts)
17. These are sick times
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:01 AM
Mar 2018

These are the people who were put into a bubble of false information, stoking their psychological predistributions. Some will come to their senses I believe. Love trumps hate. Sure, there are those so full of hate that they can't be reached. But I am increasingly concerned about the psychological warfare used to put their ideologies into action.
Trump and corporate fascists are responsible for picking at the scabs of division.

Blue_Adept

(6,378 posts)
20. There've been lots of African Americans who have gone to understand KKK members
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 11:06 AM
Mar 2018

And have helped to pull them out from that.

Similar with people who fell under the Nazi interest stuff and found their way out of it.

But hey, pure dismissiveness is a wonderful liberal trait.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
45. That's fine and important if people choose to do that as individuals
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:49 PM
Mar 2018

It should NOT be the strategy of a political party and that includes substantial numbers of minorities in its base.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
33. Kind of like saying all fighting pit bulls should be put down
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:09 PM
Mar 2018

When the majority can be rehabbed when introduced into a loving environment. These people need to be shown the light. We can either be the bigger people or let the culture continue.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
37. No
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:30 PM
Mar 2018

There isn't. Both can be trained and untrained. History tells us that. The whole point of Cambridge Analyitica was to exploit this fact... And it worked.

People really can't help the environments they are living in. Many of them lack the critical thinking skills to get themselves out or to even realize how wrong they are.

We are a product of our enviroment. Our schools purposely keep people dumb. Can the few who got out really blame the ones who didn't? The only thing we can do is lead by example. Even if they are constantly nipping at our feet.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
42. "We are a product of our environment." I call BS on that!
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:38 PM
Mar 2018

If we are solely a product of our environment I should be a fox news/hate radio redneck fascist racist Trump republican scumbag and I assure you, I am not!!!

I'm an old white male working class, High school dropout(GED), Christian, gun owner, military veteran, wage slave till the day I die, WTF am I not a faithful MAGA asswipe then?

I don't hate people because of the color of their skin, that's why! I'm not a fuckin nazi lover either! My daddy fought those filth in WW2 he was OG antifa! And I have much pride in him for that!

askyagerz

(776 posts)
44. You also keep company with people from DU
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:49 PM
Mar 2018

You are not in their isolated bubble. The majority of these people would be completely different if they were raised in loving, non prejudice well to do home. Hell the majority would be different if fox news was never created. You can call B.S. all you want but its human nature.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
48. Well to do home? LOL
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:58 PM
Mar 2018

That's a good one. If you knew me and where I came from you would never say I came from a well to do family or that I'm in one now LOL

But you have no way of knowing that so yeah. It made me laugh though!

My parents never taught us to hate a person based on the color of their skin, I'll give you that.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
51. I wasn't talking about you.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:08 PM
Mar 2018

I said the majority of racist people wouldn't be racist if their drunk poor dad wasn't around to beat it into them. You know I'm right. Most racist aren't inherently bad. Just ignorant.
I'm the baby of 9. My racist dad had more influence over all my older brothers and they all have racist tendicies. I was raised much later and more by my mom and dont have a racist bone in my body. Of course there are offbeat examples but when looking at societal problems I like to step back and try to look at things as a whole.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
53. When you are a child you can get a pass for being raised wrong
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:16 PM
Mar 2018

At the age of 18 to 21 then it's all on you.

If they choose to continue to be a racist hater or a hundred other evil things, its all on them!

They chose it so fuck the deplorables that are adults. They are scum to me and not worth trying to 'understand' or sympathize with that's for damn sure!

askyagerz

(776 posts)
58. How do you know something is wrong
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:30 PM
Mar 2018

When everyone else around is saying how right it is?
Look just because you and I might know algebra doesn't give us the right to put down the guy who's parents taught him 2+2=5 and has never had the chance to even open an algebra book.
Since we have the knowledge its our responsibility to teach. You might see racism as pure hate but I see it as a flaw.
So according to you was all of Germany was just racist scum or did they fall into a trance by people exploiting their fears?

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
60. This is the age of the internet
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:39 PM
Mar 2018

They can choose to bury their heads in Fox news/drudge/Breitbart/freakrepublic.

Or they can choose Democratic Underground/Daily KOS/Rachel Maddow, to name a few.

It's a choice we all make as adults everyday.

They make their choice everyday, only they can change it IMO.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
62. Wrong its what makes me and you progressive
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:51 PM
Mar 2018

In many ways we are ahead of our time. You say you are christian? See but I feel I am ahead of you in denouncing organized religion. Tribleism and religion are both just about deep seeded human fears. People are just naturally afraid of the unknown. Some people have a real fear of other cultures.
I can say hey Christians. Look at the internet at all of this stuff that disproves god. But I doubt you would have anything to do with that right?
We as humans are still pretty close to animals and progressing just means realising we are not perfect and have many flaws. Some of us can cover those flaws better then others given how we were raised or our overall intelligence.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
64. I denounce organized religion too
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:01 PM
Mar 2018

I follow Jesus Christ, not some republican mega church con man.

Dr Martin Luther King was a Christian preacher. The Reverend Ralph Abernathy marched for justice at his side as did many other Christians like John Lewis and Jewish rabbis.

I think your tribalism is showing now.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
65. Its all part of the same story
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:09 PM
Mar 2018

You obviously don't understand Tribleism.
First, there are no deep human atheist beliefs. Its something you learn through observation.
Second, not many atheists to follow in America. Kind of a nomad thing.
Third, not believing in something doesn't put you in any category. Should I say we are in the tribe of Not flat earthers?

askyagerz

(776 posts)
72. Labels are used to identify
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:45 PM
Mar 2018

Why would we identify not being part of a miniscule group? Labels do have a purpose so why muddy the waters? If the majority of the people are outside your bubble there is probably a reason they label you.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
91. Science and anthropology say otherwise
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:45 PM
Mar 2018

I don't know what magical day and age you all think humans are living in. Look around the world. They obviously haven't got it figured out yet. Seriously still mostly territorial, selfish, lying animals that prey to sky fairies and believe in ghosts

ck4829

(34,842 posts)
99. "Religion and ghosts are ridiculous" as we kill each other for green pieces of paper
Tue Mar 20, 2018, 07:46 AM
Mar 2018

That only have value because we agree that they have value.

(We also kill ourselves through overworking and not taking sick days for these same green pieces of paper.)

As we kill each other over imaginary border lines.

As we kill each other over artificial racial and ethnic designations.

As "outsiders" who defy norms and expectations over constructed gender rules and roles are killed and made into unpeople through forced surgeries at birth, conversion therapy, violence, and more.

And... There are also those who don't kill and wouldn't even think about it. People of different religions, different colors, different nations, different economic backgrounds, different sexual identities, etc. come together. As much as the horrors I have seen in the past many years, I have also seen things that give me hope, why I am still an idealist. It's why there is no excuse. I am willing to reach out to former Trump supporters, question is, will they reach back and also reach out to those who are different from them?

askyagerz

(776 posts)
89. Yep large swaths of the population and complete regions
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:38 PM
Mar 2018

Portions of our families... All scumbags.
Yet here we are complaining about trump and the Russians tricking people. I guess it didn't matter one way or another if people are just inherently evil anyway. People can be tricked or people can't. But we can't have it both ways.
I try to put myself in everyone's shoes. That includes the ignorant. If you grew up where I did you would understand some of these people never did have a chance to be civilized. Instead of some liberals helping and asking what they need, they belittle them and their culture. It's not that hard to be the bigger person.
Why do we as progressives put so much credence on education? Because we know too little will create gaps in society. These people are in the gaps. If they had the sense to get themselves out at a certain age we wouldn't need education cause it would just come to us one day... Well it doesn't. Especially people struggling just to live. Humans should learn throughout their whole lives. Sometimes it takes some people longer then others.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
47. But if I he a pack of gentle, well-behaved dogs, including lots of rescue dogs who have sought refug
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:55 PM
Mar 2018

with me, you had better not show up with a handful of pitbulls, some of whom have already mauled and killed other dogs, and insist I take them in with the rest of my dogs because some pits are really gentle.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
57. I have seen almost every dog nip at something
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:21 PM
Mar 2018

From little to big. Its in their nature. The majority of dog attacks are usually by a family pet. But dogs are here to stay.
You can try to bite them back but it just confuses them and you're gonna get hair in your mouth. If we have to keep them around I prefer we just train them right.

jalan48

(13,763 posts)
40. The elections are a little more than seven months away.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:36 PM
Mar 2018

I thought the purpose of this website was to elect more Democrats. It appears it’s devolving into a “I hate you” board. Unless we’re preparing for physical confrontation what’s the point of focusing on the voters rather than the candidates and the issues?

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
41. To understand does not mean to condone
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:36 PM
Mar 2018

If you don’t understand the enemy in war it means you’re fighting blind and hobbled.

Understanding something is not the same as sympathizing with it it.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
63. I didnt say we sholdnt understand them. I already understand them all too well
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:01 PM
Mar 2018

If you still don’t understand them already, why not listen to the people on your side who already do?

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
85. Ive long since understood these people
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:22 PM
Mar 2018

I gave up trying to convince them of anything 30 years ago when I had a pleasant conversation with a woman about politics. She seemed to be listening and started to agree with the facts I was giving her after she made a really uninformed statement. I felt like I had won her over and we stayed friendly.

Except the very next time I saw her she made the exact same uninformed statement again. She had no idea or memory of our long recent conversation. I realized a huge truth that day and have never bothered to waste my time on willfully ignorant people again.

I am with you 100%!

She had made up her mind and who was I to confuse her with facts?

Gore1FL

(20,953 posts)
46. Wow! Hyperbole!
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 12:50 PM
Mar 2018

This is the type of thread that makes DU awesome because it addresses and solves such a controversial issue!

Yay!

haele

(12,553 posts)
52. I do understand them. They're fear-filled people who want to live in an ordered snowglobe.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:12 PM
Mar 2018

Their preferred world is very, very small and predictable. Since they don't feel like they're properly respected outside of their preferred world, they want to get rid of anything that upsets their sense of control and authority.

So yah, I understand them. And I want to reach out and give their little snowglobe world a big old shake, maybe break it so they come tumbling out and have to deal with the real world on it's terms, not theirs.

Haele

Ms. Toad

(33,786 posts)
70. Stepping off into absurdity
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:00 PM
Mar 2018

The actual posts that I've seen are along these lines:

We need all the voters we can get. It is stupid to intentionally alienate Trump voters/supporters, who might be discovering the error of their ways, by calling them all racist.


These posts are being characterized as:

We should be engaging in a Trump supporter/voter outreach campaign.


Not the same thing. You see that, right?

Urging an end to broad-brush name calling (no energy spend at all)

is not the same thing as

Urging others to spend time and energy on conversion (investing time and energy that are better spent elsewhere chasing after a low-return group of voters).

Your post goes one step farther into absurdity by hyperbolicly mocking a non-existent call for a Trump voter outreach campaign by suggesting we also deploy this non-existent campaign to recruiting the worst of the worst racists.

How about we actually try to talk to each other, without mischaracterizing and mocking each other's positions. Strawmen are easy and fun to knock down, but that activity is not terribly helpful if we actually want to work together to win elections.

ck4829

(34,842 posts)
74. We're just now stepping into absurdity?
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:09 PM
Mar 2018

So what was it when the smaller group of people chose a morally and financially bankrupt reality TV star to sit in the oval office, or we have government experts who think "good national security" means "sure there is a mass shooter, but at least he's white", or the whole "I'll vote for a sex offender with visions of some sort of fascist theocracy over some commie Democrat to own the libs" that we saw in Alabama?

This whole government is absurd, this whole anti-liberal agenda is absurd, and this state sponsored paranoia is absurd. That is what absurdity looks like.

Ms. Toad

(33,786 posts)
97. Well I certainly hope that "we" on this site were not stepping off
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:33 PM
Mar 2018

into that particular absurdity.

I have higher expectations for progressives and yes, based on those expectations, it is absurd to mock a suggestion that using broad brush insults does not help our cause by encouraging us to reach out to nazis & KKK members.

LAS14

(13,734 posts)
77. Yes, please. Let's talk to each other, which involves respecting...
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 04:27 PM
Mar 2018

... the poster enough to pay attention to what they really said.

Thanks again, Ms. Toad.

YessirAtsaFact

(2,064 posts)
83. The implication here is that Trump voters are the equivalent of KKK and Nazis. They are not.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 05:04 PM
Mar 2018

Please leave the false equivalence to Faux Noos.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
92. Bone up on the rise of the Third Reich. The parallels are sobering.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:01 PM
Mar 2018

I’m rather certain that runaway nationalism, racism, xenophobia, military parades, misogyny, 24/7 state-messaging on a major “news” network, denouncing and defaming legitimate information sources, tolerance (and encouragement) of white supremacy, a stated desire to damage defeated political opponents, continuing “rallies” to whip up anger and resentment for minorities and Democrats, etc., etc. all constitute a far-right totalitarian regime. The fascism fail-safe point has been passed, and a certain segment of Americans are overjoyed by that sad fact.

Put it this way: Maybe all Trump supporters aren’t nazis or KKK, but it’s pretty obvious that all neo-nazis and white supremacists are big Trump supporters. And the others are complicit in their silence.

ck4829

(34,842 posts)
96. Yep, there were plenty of "neutral"/"good" Germans who just stood there and let it all happen
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:14 PM
Mar 2018

VOX

(22,976 posts)
100. Precisely. The Nazis had to expend some serious time and effort on winning broad support.
Wed Mar 21, 2018, 07:00 AM
Mar 2018

But they had a twisted dream to sell, and they finally got their "customers" to buy in.

Which is why every day that 45 is in the picture constitutes a day that things could go horribly wrong, given the man's proven (again and again) impulsivity. He needs to GO.

YessirAtsaFact

(2,064 posts)
98. If they did polling at that time, I'm sure Hitler's approval ratings would have been more than 40%
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 09:30 PM
Mar 2018

There are other differences. The minorities he chose to scapegoat (Jews, Gypsies and gays) made up a very small part of Germany's population.

Non-white people made up almost 39% of US population in 2016, per census data. That's a lot of people to round up and take to camps.

The bottom line is that the Trump supporters may be ignorant and misguided, but the vast majority of them aren't Nazi or KKK.

The situation is too much like Germany for comfort, but comparing Trumpsters with Nazis/KKK is false equivalence.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
101. In fact, in 1932, Hitler only received 36.8% of the vote, against von Hindenberg's 53%.
Wed Mar 21, 2018, 07:44 AM
Mar 2018

It took time, effort, propaganda, severe economic distress, and some behind-the-scenes lawlessness (including several murders) to move a majority of Germans to buy into Hitler's "vision." And while German Jews, Gypsies, communists and political prisoners were a small percentage of that country's total population, the Nazis nevertheless shipped such "undesirables" to death camps from the countries they occupied, from France all the way to the Russian Steppes. It's widely believed, based on available evidence, that the 6 million murdered may be a low-end estimate.

Yes, Trump's supporters are ignorant and misguided, but they also have alternative-viewpoint information outlets readily available to them if they were interested in hearing opposing ideas. But they're not. They stay locked into Fox, Breitbart, AM radio, etc., and never hear ANY opposing viewpoints during their average day. It's a steady diet of fear and anger, two addictive emotions -- be afraid of people of color, and be angry that they get shrift in this society. THAT is Fox Entertainment's meat-and-potatoes.

While only some of his supporters are out-and-out neo-nazis and white supremacists, a majority of them consider themselves superior to other ethnicities and cultures. It's unfolding right there in front of us: Trump rallies that whip up the idea of punishing political opponents (a very third-world practice), the demonizing of Latinos and African Americans, Confederate flag t-shirts, torchlight parades, support of Trump on American White Nationalist websites ("Heil Trump!&quot , etc. The Trump supporters who do not participate directly in these hate groups are very slow to denounce them, if at all-- including Trump himself.

I think the equivalence here, while there are some degrees of contrast, is anything but false -- Germany was entirely consumed by a toxic and fatal ideology; the U.S., at present, via Trump and his alt-right/white-power buddies (Stephen Miller, and the still-available-by-phone Steve Bannon, to name two), have made a dangerous flirtation with overtly fascist ideas: de facto deportation ("travel ban&quot , the threat of deportation ("They aren't sending their best...bringing drugs...crime. They're rapists...&quot , the laughable but corrosively racist attempt to disenfranchise minority voters ("voter fraud&quot , and lately, bald-faced authoritarianism-- snap decisions fraught with far-reaching implications-- that Trump makes without consulting any of his handlers. The fact that we have a president who NEEDS handlers should keep us awake at night.

This is our country's first fling with a far-right-wing president, administration and both houses of Congress. To date, the only office-holding Republicans to speak out against Trump have been Jeff Flake (retiring), John McCain (fighting aggressive cancer), and Lindsay Graham. Everyone else is either on board, or damnably silent, which is worse.

The American people are being forced to endure a battle for the "naming-rights" to reality itself. It remains to be seen whether the rule of law -- or far-right partisanship-- will prevail.

ck4829

(34,842 posts)
95. It is.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 06:13 PM
Mar 2018

"Trump is running for president"
"Trump got the nomination"
"Trump is now in the oval office"
"Very fine people"
"At least the shooter is white"
"'Sticking it to the liberals' as political discourse"
"Vote for Roy Moore, he's not a Democrat"

All absurd... but all reality.

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