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[EffieBlack]

This message was self-deleted by its author (EffieBlack) on Tue Mar 9, 2021, 12:31 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[samnsara]

1. im the opposite.. it think this is one reason why he SHOULD run!

[EffieBlack]

7. Why?

[TBA]

62. I agree... We need someone fired up

Someone who has an edge and can capture the attention of the media. I hate to say it but policy speeches ain't gonna cut it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

234. Yes, I like Joe even more after hearing him say this.

[Hortensis]

248. Hmmm, it suggested to me that he feels free to NOT

act like a future president of the United States needs to.

There's going to be a big reaction to Trump, you know. People are going to want a return to dignity and honor.

[Bradshaw3]

235. In this corner weighing 218 pounds and wearing depends ...

and in this corner weighing 275 pounds and wearing tighty whities ...

[ananda]

101. Agree

Standing up to bullies is so important.

[MissKat]

134. Look at it this way--

Could it be that Joe was deliberately FIRING up Trump?

Think about it. Look at the Orange Tornado's response-- FURY RAGE and utter nonsense.

I don't think Joe is serious about running. I do think he delights in tormenting Trump. After all, look at how easy it is to do.

[pnwmom]

140. So he could look as stupid as Trump? No. Not helpful. n//t

[Demsrule86]

185. He was talking about high school.

[pnwmom]

189. Two seventy year olds boasting about high school. This was nuts. n/t

[Demsrule86]

202. Trump took it in the present day...and was all rattled...very funny.

I have have met Biden and worked with him...he is one of the good guys. That being said, I think we need younger candidates but if he won the nomination, I would be pleased to vote for him. He is one of the best campaigners I ever worked with.

[pnwmom]

205. I agree he's a good guy, but like many extraverts, he's gaffe-prone.

I don't think that's the best quality in a President.

And in this particular instance of him saying he would defend women, it's hard to take seriously when I remember how he failed to even verbally defend Anita Hill.

And that was part of his nice-guy persona -- I think he wanted the other Senators and Clarence Thomas to like him.

[PatSeg]

143. You know

I think you could be right. Joe knows Trump's vulnerabilities and he's probably playing him.

[lunamagica]

152. No, it is not. We have a buffon in the WH. We need to bring dignity, class an maturity to the

office.

Can you imagine President Obama talking that way?

[Jakes Progress]

166. You sure you want to be doing that?

How is Biden's bloviating braggadocio any different that the shit that trump does? If you support Biden playing this macho crap just because you agree with his position, you have to approve of trump doing the same thing. You are approving of trump's actions if not his ideas. You sure you want to be doing that?

Too many are blinding by the shiny. Even on DU.

[ucrdem]

168. Come on now. There's no comparison and I know you know that.

Yes, Biden goes off script now and again, and we hear about it for decades. But when has he ever said anything vile or despicable or openly racist? Trump not only says this stuff but stands by it and pumps it out hourly via twitter!

[Jakes Progress]

221. Biden says he can beat up trump

because he is a good guy. trump says he can beat up Biden because he is gooder.

Yeah. That's all different.

If you want your politicians popping off about beating people up, then you have to like them both. Tell me just how purposeful and helpful Biden is with his juvenile bragging.

How about mature reactions. Why couldn't Biden have suggested that he would bring charges against trump, work with the women to sue trump. Not only would that be mature, it would be real instead of fantasy. Having a public dick measuring contest is real shiny though if that is what you want.

[shanny]

230. No. He says he would have.

Stop buying lil' Donnie's framing.

[Jakes Progress]

242. Stop backing up trump's game.

An old man (I'm one) who talks about how tough he was in high school and how he was a hero even back then with empty brags that accomplishnothing but to give trump another foil for his base is not productive. It is pathetic. It is trumpish.

[John Fante]

176. False equivalence much?

Biden standing up to a bully =/= acting like a bullying asshole.

There's a world of difference between Biden's comments and the hateful crap Gump regularly spews.

[Jakes Progress]

223. Full of fantasy, much.

How is Biden standing up to a bully. He is not standing up to anything. He is just mouthing off. He is not doing anything to bring trump to justice for his actions. Biden is giving trump's fans exactly what they want and proving that Biden can act just like trump with loud juvenile mouthing off that doesn't really do anything.

Tell me how he is standing up to trump. How did trump suffer for his actions because of Biden's actions. All Biden did is try to make himself seem tough without really doing anything.

I wouldn't mind seeing trump knocked on his ass. But Biden didn't do that. He just praised himself and voiced a fantasy.

Lots of shiny to look at though.

[John Fante]

233. There you go equivocating Biden's comments to Trump's.

What a load of bullshit. Biden was calling out Trump for being a misogynist POS. That IS standing up to him.

Using your logic, every Democrat in congress who has personally attacked Trump (and there are PLENTY of them) is acting just like him too! After all, they aren't bringing Trump to justice, and they aren't making him suffer for his actions, right?

[Jakes Progress]

243. See Inigo Montoya.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Vocabulary aside, Biden wasn't doing anything about anything. He was just bragging on himself and what a hero he coulda/woulda been and thumping his chest with empty talk that accomplished nothing but to give trump some more headlines with his base.

Biden could have done a number of substantial things about trump's behavior without mimicking it. Instead he did an empty pathetic gesture. Tell me how many Democrats in congress have said they want to beat trump up physically.

Really shiny though. I can see where some shallow and easily distracted minds would get excited about it. Sort of like a high-school pep rally.

I supported Biden. I voted for him. I just think here, he is feeling passed over and wanted some headlines. I'm sad for him.

[MicaelS]

180. We have gone too far with this ....

"When they go low, we go high" rhetoric.

You can call it macho crap all you want. I want someone in there who is willing to call an asshole an asshole. HRC was too fucking nice.

[Jakes Progress]

224. That's what got trump elected.

I do call it macho crap. You like macho crap, you must really like trump. He is fake macho crap on a stick.

Biden didn't call trump an asshole. He didn't thrash trump. He didn't cause trump one bit of pain or discomfort. He didn't do one thing for bringing the orange ass to justice. He just strutted and preened so that you would say how cool he is. He didn't do anything. It was high school, behind the gym, guys blowing shit stuff. I don't like that in my leaders. It is fake. It is shallow. It is pointless.

HRC had class. She didn't have the shiny that seems to mesmerize you though.

[hlthe2b]

2. Joe has long had a history of talking "off the cuff" impulsively, but...

never every second of the damned day and on as many SERIOUS damned issues as what we are experiencing now. Do I wish he would remain a bit more Obama-like and measured? Yes. Especially when dealing with Trump.

[treestar]

63. The Deplorables have said they like that

when it comes to Dotard, don't know if they have a double standard - probably, as they usually do.

[BoneyardDem]

115. I'd bet $1M they have a double standard going....

same with infidelity, pussy grabbing, paying prostitutes, overspending spending tax payer money, creating huge deficits and debt, time spent golfing, cozying up to Russia, foreigners with strong accents living in the WhiteHouse, etc etc etc....it's always ok for Donald Drumpfuss, but never ok for a Dem.

[njhoneybadger]

3. Name a candidate and I'll give a lot reasons why they shouldn't run

I'm more interested in why they should run and can they win.

[PunksMom]

57. Great point!

I love Joe, and would vote for him in a heartbeat!

[Rorey]

80. Perfect perspective!

Thank you!

[Eliot Rosewater]

102. Great point, not arguing with Effie but this is a great point.

[Old Vet]

126. I like your way of thinking njmoneybadger, Look for the good for a change..

[Siwsan]

4. One brags about assaulting women - one brags about defending women

I have no doubt that a young Joe Biden would have taken someone like trump* to task, for his words and behaviors. And I have even less doubt that a young trump* would have wet himself.

This is a time when Joe Biden really reminds me of my Dad. It might be an 'old fashioned' mind set to an 'old fashioned' reaction but I appreciate the ire that someone like trump* raises in a man like Joe Biden. Yea, violence is rarely the answer but sometimes lessons need to be taught.

[Siwsan]

19. Only if he uses a time machine, since he was talking about what he'd have done in high school

I think that's the bit people are over looking. He's expressing what would have happened had the two of them been local contemporaries, when they were teenagers. Nothing I read indicated Joe is heading to DC for a beat down.

IMHO he is expressing outrage in an outdated manner. Nothing more. My Dad was a Marine, and trust me, even as a die hard Republican, he'd be agreeing with Joe on what they WOULD have done.

[Siwsan]

27. Yes, I get your point

It's something I wish he hadn't said, but I also fully understand why he said it. It's how his generation dealt with such people. It can be hard to resist bullying a bully. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

But, yea, it wasn't useful. I hope this doesn't turn into a back and forth pissing contest.

[Siwsan]

95. Joe can be effusive

But he also can learn from his errors. I don't seriously think he will be the nominee, but I've been very wrong, before.

[Siwsan]

105. But, then, some people see it as a plus

I see it as a sometimes quirky personality that is mitigated by the man's incredible knowledge, faithfulness, ethics, abilities, empathy, political skills and love of country.

I hope Joe lives to be a healthy, happy 100, and if he would, by chance, be the candidate I would vote for him. I just don't think he will be.

[EffieBlack]

114. Funny how that works

About Biden, people say, "Sure, he has flaws, but he brings knowledge, faithfulness, ethics, abilities, empathy, political skills and love of country."

But about Hillary, people say: "Sure, she brought knowledge, faithfulness, ethics, abilities, empathy, political skills and love of country, but she was FLAWED."

[Siwsan]

125. I'm actually getting dizzy, here

So I'll wish you a great one. I have to go pick up my taxes.

[phleshdef]

129. Its not fair, but reality often isn't.

Hillary would have been excellent at governing.

[ancianita]

131. Exactly. One benefit: we now know not to let debate frames get twisted by dirty donnie.

[karynnj]

146. Actually, in 2008 AND in 2016, Biden was the one whose

competency was given less discussion than his flaws. In the 2008 debates, he often had the clearest best answers to complicated questions - especially on foreign policy.

I don't think the discussion anywhere near as starkly different as you state. In fact, strating within weeks of the election in 2004, the case was made that HRC would be a blockbuster candidate and that only the Clintons could fight back again right wing smears -- an implicit criticism of John Kerry. Her strengths, not her flaws, were center stage. Biden, one of the other candidates who could match of better Clinton on knowledge and ability, was either given little coverage or coverage focused on gaffes or things like the plagerism claim that killed his 1988 race.

When Biden put the tip of his toe nail in the water in 2015, there were a spate of articles that were all about gaffes and negatives - even though he did a very good job as VP. In contrast, Hillary, even while SoS, as the very likely next President. It was only when she lost that people came out of the woodwork to speak of her flaws. (This is a pretty consistent, very unattractive constant in Democratic politics. If you lose, even a race that was never going to be easy, you will be attacked -- and ironically, the closer it was the more every "mistake" will be focused on as "why he/she lost".

[bettyellen]

229. No one talked about HRCs flaws until after she lost?!?! OMG. Just no.

[karynnj]

236. That is not what I said

Every election includes discussion, positive and negative, on every candidate. My point was that in both 2008 and 2016, claims of Clinton's strengths dominated discussions of her flaws IN THE PRIMARIES while Biden's press emphasized his gaffes.

[bettyellen]

237. quote: It was only when she lost that people came out of the woodwork to speak of her flaws. LOL

Ya think, Karyn? Literally everyone referred to he as flawed all year. And unlikable, constantly.
Yes, they may have followed up by telling the truth that she was skilled intelligent and hard working- but always after calling her unlikable and flawed. After saying people hate her.

[karynnj]

240. The magnitude of criticism changed after she lost

As I said. I did not say there was no criticism and, like the post I was responding to, it was a comparison with Biden. This was truer in 2008 than in 2016. In 2016, Hillary's terrible handling of email and of speaking about her email led to extremely bad unfavorables that were reported and discussed.

[bettyellen]

241. I get it- but her emails worked on Dems too. Duped.

[John Fante]

178. Your kidding yourself if you've never seen

people describe Biden the way they describe Hillary. "He's good, but flawed" could practically be Biden's nickname.

[EffieBlack]

239. Not lately

We’ve been bombarded with “oh, that’s just Joe” comments for months.

[Eliot Rosewater]

104. One thing to consider is he is "feeling out" what this does to the voters, the same way

the traitor tweets and says all kinds of insane shit to see what sticks and what keeps him on the front page.

I say let's find out what we need to say and do to take back the government, no matter what that is, and do that, then go from there.

But I get your point, I do. It is that same old MALE patriarchy bullshit.

[MicaelS]

195. Disagree.

We have gone too far with this "When they go low, we go high" rhetoric.

You can call it what you want. I want someone in there who is willing to call an asshole an asshole. HRC was too fucking nice.

[Tipperary]

72. I completely agree. Macho posturing.

They both look stupid and childish.

[Me.]

73. That's It Exactly

All pumped up and trash talking does not look well on him. I can't imagine PBO saying anything like that.

[whathehell]

87. You don't know that -- Let Biden be Biden.

He doesn't have to be Mr. Curcumpect all the time.

[whathehell]

96. Yes he certainly is..

as for the rest, you're entitled to that opinion.

[njhoneybadger]

33. OMG, yup just talking the shit that red state voters can relate to

[EffieBlack]

46. Bull

If the only way to "relate" to these people is to act like Trump, screw them.

[njhoneybadger]

64. It is what it is, not what we would like it be

[njhoneybadger]

78. C'mon, he is talking about youthful indiscretion

[karynnj]

135. First Biden is NOT going to physically fight Trump and did not even say he wanted to do that

What he spoke of was that in high school, he would have been willing to fight someone who was bullying women. As a grown man and Senator, he fought them by being the lead sponsor on the Violence Against Women Act and the International Violence Against Women Act.

Take what he says in the context that it was in -- in response to Trump bullying women.

I disagree with you equating Biden and Trump -- and KNOW you would protest loudly if anyone compared Bill Clinton to Trump arguing false equivilence.

[Demsrule86]

186. Politics is talking shit some of the time.

[phleshdef]

5. Nope. This is exactly why I would like to see him run.

He is everything Trump's coddled, spoiled ass pretends to be.

[janterry]

6. It's an old sexist notion

Thanks, Joe, but no thanks. I can protect myself.

[phleshdef]

14. Bullshit, there is nothing sexist about it.

Let me show you how stupid that logic is.

If Trump had been caught on tape calling black people the N word and Biden said the same thing and you accuse Biden of being racist.... thats EXACTLY how you sound calling him sexist.

[EffieBlack]

16. Hunh?

[janterry]

18. Well, I hear what you are saying

but my view is shared by at least a few others. Here's one article, in case you are interested:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2018/03/21/thanks-joe-biden-but-women-dont-need-you-to-beat-up-donald-trump-for-us/?utm_term=.c8c1622dd961

[phleshdef]

20. Other people sharing your view in no way, shape or form validates it. Not even a little.

[EffieBlack]

24. A few others also think Trump is awesome ... that doesn't make him right

[janterry]

36. Oh, no, of course not

But I'm of the mind that we need to back the women who are already fighting for themselves in court. That kind of chivalrous stuff from Biden - isn't really the point of what is happening. Women are feeling empowered to do for themselves - and I back them - and that movement.

[EffieBlack]

56. Saying you would have beat someone up 60 years ago isn't "chivalrous"

[David__77]

60. I think it might be better if Biden wanted to beat up Trump for his own satisfaction.

...rather than to defend anyone.

[whathehell]

90. A little old fashioned maybe, but not sexist.

Trump is a bully -- Joe was being porotective.

[EffieBlack]

97. I don't think his comment was sexist

But I do think some of the reaction to it is. Particularly the insistence that it shows how "tough" he is and how much tougher than Hillary he is. In other words, exhibiting macho behavior is good and failure to show it is badly. We see that all across society. Aggressive men are seen as tough, aggressive women are "overbearing." Ambitious men are "focused," ambitious women are "calculating."

And a male politician who threatens (retroactively) violence is tough while a woman who did not wasn't tough enough.

[Eliot Rosewater]

109. Oh I love Joe, I do, but neither he nor ANYBODY is as tough, let alone tougher than Hillary.

Maybe Auntie Maxine

[Proud liberal 80]

107. Oh geez

Now defending and protecting women is sexist? Just like the discussion on here a few days ago when helping someone with a disability was considered abelism.

I guess I will mind my business for now on when I am in public. If I see a woman getting attacked I will just ignore it because she can probably handle it herself and I wouldn’t want to be called a sexist for trying to help.

[appalachiablue]

145. Pretty crazy alright. I know plenty of women who protect and defend

other women, verbally and physically if needed, bigtime. Women in CA, Seattle, Arkansas, DC, all over and across generations and backgrounds. The majority are very intelligent, active and accomplished in multiple career areas and also as wives, single, partnered, mothers, whatever. Sexist? Same with asking people with disabilities if they'd like any help, is abelist? That's standard behavior for what people should do, basic common sense as I've long known esp. from working with and having ties to many people with disabilities.

This is some *Stuff, as Biden said of Ryan's lame fudging of the budget during the VP debate.

[John Fante]

179. Can a man even open his mouth any more without being accused of sexism?

He's on your side FFS. Geez.

[BeyondGeography]

8. The horror!

There are arguments against Biden, but his personality isn’t one of them. Nor is a little soul baring. The inability to do that was a specialty of our last nominee and how did that work out?

[EffieBlack]

12. Yes, if only Hillary had "bared her soul" by threatening to beat up Trump in the parking lot

we wouldn't be in this mess.

This has nothing to do with not liking Joe's "personality." I love the guy. I just don't think presidential candidates should go around threatening to beat each other up, regardless the reason.

[njhoneybadger]

45. Yes because using logic worked so freaking well in red states

[EffieBlack]

51. Being not racist didn't work so well with these people, either

So why not just start using the n-word?

If people are looking for a candidate who acts like Trump, guess what? They're gonna just vote for real thing.

[njhoneybadger]

68. Are you implying "these people" would only vote for a racist.

[NCTraveler]

10. I think he would be a good voice.

I do think the massive establishment backing he would get would continue a negative and false narrative about our primaries. This might be the only way we don't end up with Sanders prevailing in a large field.

I hope to have a much better option in the primaries. Great "crazy uncles" quote. lol.

[NurseJackie]

11. Agreed. He does nothing for me.

NEXT!

[wishstar]

13. At least Joe's twitter posts are dignified intelligent and professional

and he served with integrity and dedication as VP. Leave it to our media who helped elect Trump to make fun of Joe and try to equate Joe with Trump, when Joe the adult prefaced his comment with "if we were in high school".

[EffieBlack]

17. I'm not talking about his tweets

I'm talking about him blurring out stupid shit like threats to beat people up.

[phleshdef]

22. He didn't blurt out any threats. He specifically said "if this were highschool".

[phleshdef]

28. His point certainly wasn't to make you happy.

Nor does anyone care if you care.

[EffieBlack]

30. You cared enough to take the time to respond to me

Thanks for the kick!

[phleshdef]

31. I care about defending Biden's remarks because someone needs to hit Trump where it hurts.

IT being his ego.

[EffieBlack]

35. You think Joe Biden saying he'd have beat him up in high school hits Trump "where it hurts?"

Not hardly. He loves it. Draws Biden into his own mud puddle, distracts the press, gives him more opportunity to talk shit, and revs up his base.

As I said, not helpful to us at all.

[phleshdef]

37. You obviously don't understand how Trump got people to support him.

[EffieBlack]

44. I understand

But if the only way to attract those voters is to replicate his worst behavior, leave them where they are. We'll get our votes elsewhere.

[phleshdef]

47. This isn't replicating his behavior.

A guy who goes around using his power to sexually assault women really does need the shit beat out of him. Since when has Trump ever behaved in a way that he would defend people who are being bullied?

[Eliot Rosewater]

118. Speak for yourself, I care very much what a patriotic, loyal member of the Democratic Party

thinks.

[mulsh]

15. I too love Joe but he's the wrong direction for the Democratic party to go. We need to encourage

and support younger, fresher talent. I want to point out that I'm a 60 year old white dude, not angry, but am sick of seeing old farts pushed to the expense of younger and way more energetic candidates.

Biden will always have a valuable role in the party for as long as he likes. He and the other older members should be actively courting, encouraging, and supporting newer Democratic party faces.

2018 is bringing out all sorts of great people, some will go on to further greatness. These candidates are our future.

[awesomerwb1]

23. F MIka, and F the guy

I mostly think what Biden said was funny. He's older and old fashioned. Nothing to see here.

Did I mention, F Mika and the other guy? /middlefinger

[Greybnk48]

58. I second your F Mika and F other guy,

and am holding up BOTH middle fingers in 3-2-1.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Correct.

This is all so stupid.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. K&R. Totally agree.

[still_one]

32. That is Biden's weakness, his mouth gets him into unecessary distractions.

He does this all the time, and did his share of Hillary bashing after the election:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-joe-biden-slams-hillary-clinton-i-1495209316-htmlstory.html

I would ask him, who the hell does he think this helps?

I think Joe has bad judgements in his career, and I sure woul like to see a new face

[Happyhippychick]

34. I disagree, I think it's high time the democrats spoke the hell up

I would vote for Joe in a second, mostly because of the kind of man he is.

[EffieBlack]

39. You speak up by countering him, not by mimicking him

[still_one]

40. I won't go into the baggage Joe has, along with major judgement errors he has made, but I believe

there are a lot of other Democrats who have a lot more to offer

[poboy2]

38. Vote for a fighter. Mealy mouth accommodationists will get ROLLED. -nt

[EffieBlack]

41. Saying you would have beat Trump up 60 years ago doesn't make him a "fighter"

It makes him a 70+-year-old man talking shit about what he woulda done back in the day before he got too old to throw a punch.

[poboy2]

55. He has your favor I assume philosophically. He is saying that to gain favor in another segment.

It resonates with a percentage of the voting populace.

I agree its just bluster, but 'elections are won on emotion', perhaps moreso than facts. They just are.

Now all my words in this topic are expressing no objection to him saying this and in fact I look favorable on it.
I will now say he's too old. Same for Hillary AND Bernie.

New blood.

[EffieBlack]

103. Lots of things resonate with a percentage of the voting populace

It doesn't mean we should cater to it.

This sounds like more of the "let's reach out to Trump supporters" argument that I have a problem with. I certainly don't think we should reach out to them by trying to out shittalk Trump. We can do better.

[poboy2]

112. As long as we are extrapolating to the absurd, you sound like a purist.

Bounds of reason are absent here. Get your perfect candidate and lose then.

[Eliot Rosewater]

121. Doubt Joe is trying to appeal to deplorables. He just has a tendency to do this.

I dont think we need or should do a single thing to reach out to people who NEED to be reached out to.

If you STILL have to be persuaded, if you STILL have to be REACHED out to, well I just dont have that long of a reach.

[EffieBlack]

124. I agree with everything you said

I don't think Biden was trying to appeal to deplorable, either. He was just being Biden. But I think the "We need to reach out to Trump supporters" crowd loves this kind of thing because they think this will appeal to to those people.

[Demsrule86]

184. Joe is authentic. I like that.

[EffieBlack]

187. That's what people say about Trump.

[Demsrule86]

192. It is a lie...Trump is a complete fraud...joe is the real deal. He is a gentleman...worked with him

in 12 during the Obama campaign. He is a good guy. You are wrong about him.

[H2O Man]

42. I like Biden, too.

That old quote is one of the reasons why.

I hope that he doesn't run for two reasons. First, we need new leadership. Second, he could play an important role in campaigning in select areas of the nation in 2020, for other candidates.

[DURHAM D]

43. His comments are so mid-last-century.

Not helpful.

[njhoneybadger]

50. And so are the voters he is targeting in that statement

[DURHAM D]

54. There are not enough voters stuck in the 50s.

Thank god...

[EffieBlack]

59. So we should all regress in order to attract them?

Lots of these voters are racist, too. Should he start sprouting racist rhetoric?

[njhoneybadger]

70. That argument is ridiculous

[janterry]

94. I agree

n/t

[Deb]

48. His mockery of pigs is the best!

You should have seen his work in the Senate. We used to call each other up (CSPAN) when he took the podium. He's a most beloved politician.

[Greybnk48]

49. I LOVE Joe Biden. No "buts" from me.

I've loved him for decades and always will.

[IluvPitties]

52. We won't beat Trump unless we can embarrass him.

Look how Stormy Daniels is dominating him. We need someone that is not afraid to make him look stupid.

[poboy2]

71. People want a fighter. Invariably. "I welcome their hatred!", 'They just think it's hell" -nt

[EffieBlack]

83. A 70-year-old man saying he wouldabeatimup in high school isn't going to embarrass him

[poboy2]

86. People here are making the same point I am. Its symbolic, not literal. I guess we just disagree. -nt

[Demsrule86]

188. Joe Biden is the one of the reasons Obama rethought some of his opiniond on gay marriage...he is a

good guy.

[EffieBlack]

85. saying you woulda beat him up 60 years ago doesn't make you a fighter.

It makes you sound like a blustering old man reminiscing about the good old days.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

53. Biden was joking about what his high school self might have done.

Trump appears to think it's all serious in the here and now.

No, it's not our "two crazy uncles."

It's our one cool, likeable uncle who likes to make jokes now and then, versus our crazy, unhinged asshole racist uncle.

[treestar]

61. I don't think Joe means it

it's a metaphor, but then a lot of people exist who might respond positively to it, even Deplorables (that is the way they think about "their" women, even if they are OK treating others badly).

[helpisontheway]

65. Trump would not be president is Biden was the nominee

in 2016. I do not believe Trump would have won Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin if he was the nominee. People don’t hate Biden as much as they hate Hillary (for whatever reason). Plus many of the working class whites like Biden.

[FakeNoose]

67. I want to agree with you on this

... however the stuff we're seeing about Cambridge Analytica may change all our notions about 2016.

We've spent the last 2 years saying, if only Hillary did this. Or if only she didn't do that. But it looks now like none of that mattered because the fix was on from the very beginning.

[njhoneybadger]

82. I agree

[liberal N proud]

66. I support Joe Biden

[KitSileya]

69. Yeah, the time Joe Biden should have gone to bat for a woman against her harasser

Was with Anita Hill. He blew that one, big time.

Not to mention, this kind of rhetoric is actively harmful to women and kids who are being abused. It makes it *less* likely that they'll seek help, because they are afraid that their parents/husbands/brothers will end up in jail for assaulting their abuser if they tell them. Joe Biden needs to sit down, shut up, and knit.

[poboy2]

74. Okay, now that is a legitimate criticism vis-a-vis his current statement.

What did he do one time when it was 'put up' time?

Yes, valid point.

[Me.]

75. Bingo

And he wasn't a teenager when he didn't defend her from the group punch that was laid on her in Congress by Joe and the boys.

[deurbano]

116. Yes to all of that.

[EffieBlack]

120. Bingo!

[ucrdem]

163. Biden invited Hill to testify. He also treated her with respect, invited her family

into the hearing room to support her, believed her, and voted against Thomas. Trump on the other hand got his porn-star mistress to sign a NDA and now defames her daily. Who do you think will win that point?

[EffieBlack]

167. He invited her only after he was dragged kicking and screaming

And once she was there, he allowed the Republican men on the committee to treat her like shit. No talk from him them about beating anyone up to protect thatvwoman’s honor.

Only revisionist history tells a different story. Fortunately, too many of us were there and saw exactly what happened, so we can keep the record straight.

[ucrdem]

173. Well, I watched much of the hearings live and reviewed the transcripts last summer.

They run to thousands of pages. The links are in my journal but I can dig them out. Biden ran the hearings for over a month, as against 2 or 3 days for most SC confirmations, and devoted an extra week to the harassment allegations, all while Thomas sat beside his devoted wife casting aspersions on Biden. He did far more than any other senator has done and gave Hill ample support for her case which she made well. And still Thomas was confirmed. I don't think you can lay that at Biden's feet, and I don't think he treated Hill with anything less than complete respect.

[EffieBlack]

183. I was involved in the hearings and know firsthand exactly what happened

Among other things, while you're correct that the hearings lasted for weeks, the Anita Hill issue did not become part of the hearing until the last couple of days and only after it leaked out that a witness wanted to testify that Thomas had sexually harassed her but Chairman Biden had decided not to allow her to testify.

And perhaps he treated her with courtesy, but he didn't show her much respect. And he sat quietly while his Republican colleagues raked her over the coals, accused her of lying, being delusional or insane and worse.

And Thomas didn't sit through anything. He appeared when he testified on the first few days and then returned - at Biden's invitation - to pre-empt Hill's testimony - and was not required to take any tough questions about Hill's accusations. This was not a shining moment in Biden's career.

[ucrdem]

193. Confirmation hearings aren't trials and Biden wasn't presiding over a courtroom.

The hateful racist senators made their positions perfectly clear to viewers. On what procedural grounds could Biden have interrupted their questioning? And if Thomas wasn't on camera the whole time he was there long enough for his accusations to be heard around the world and to this day generations then unborn are familiar with his high-tech lynching remark. Griping about Biden seems to me a way of expressing disappointment in the outcome which I share. But I don't blame Biden and I don't think it's fair to claim that he somehow failed.

[EffieBlack]

196. I suggest you do some research on confirmation hearings in general and the Thomas hearings in partic

Here are a couple of things to get you started:

http://www.newsweek.com/anatomy-debacle-204540


https://www.theroot.com/joe-biden-needs-to-offer-anita-hill-a-better-apology-1820502655/amp

[ucrdem]

207. 1st source: "the process led to an admirable result--awareness about harassment."

Yes it was lurid, yes it was messy, no this was not where senate confirmation hearings have ever gone before or since. But Biden went there and for that the MSM will happily keep punishing him. Sorry, they'll have to do it without me. I'll get to #2 later.

[EffieBlack]

212. Your cherry-picking one partial sentence out of two long pieces suggests that you're not interested

in information or facts.

Here's another excerpt from that same piece that you didn't mention:

{Biden} could have called Hill to Washington so that he could meet with her privately to assess her credibility. He could have summoned Hill and Thomas into a closed committee session, though that surely risked a leak. Or he or any other committee member with knowledge of the allegation could have asked for a delay in the vote, pending an attempt at further inquiry.

Biden made one obvious mistake. It was on the night of Sept. 25, after he had received the FBI report. Admittedly under pressure from the White House to get Thomas confirmed before the Supreme Court started its term Oct. 7, Biden scheduled the Judiciary vote on Thomas for Sept. 27. Yet he knew he wouldn't be briefing most of his fellow committee Democrats on the Hill charges until the 26th. That gave colleagues little chance to ask for a postponement of the vote. Biden says he or an aide verbally briefed each of the seven Democrats on the 25th or 26th, and that each had access to both the FBI report and Hill's statement before the vote on Friday the 27th. But some of the senators say Biden gave them short shrift; at least one was never told of the report, NEWSWEEK has learned. Moreover, Hill's statement was given to the other committee Democrats just 20 minutes before the vote--while Biden was on the Senate floor announcing his opposition to Thomas even as he vouched for his character.

[ucrdem]

222. They're both good, but neither makes the case that Biden was unfair to Hill.

The first one doesn't even try. Its point of view is that Biden gambled on a long shot and lost, i.e. that he stuck his neck out by pursuing Hill's allegations and it didn't pan out, and Thomas was confirmed anyway. But the conclusion which I quoted is one I agree with: it didn't foil the Thomas nomination, true, but it did have positive effects.

The second article from last Thanksgiving basically reports on the MSM storm kicked up by Biden's book. How dare he speak up after they silenced him forever with an evil gotcha dreamed up by the master, Bush I? Well he did speak up and he explained what happened to Hill and apologized for the trouble she was put through. That's not enough for some but I have yet to see any concrete evidence that Biden did anything requiring an apology.

[EffieBlack]

225. Wow

Ok.

[Yavin4]

76. Agreed 100%. Trump is not the problem. Believe it or not.

American values are. Sure, you can beat Trump up in the backyard, but what does that accomplish? 40% or so of the American population agrees with his, and the Republican party's values. That's what we have to defeat. Are you going to beat up 40% of the American public?

No. What we need is a leader for the 60% that disagree with Trump and the Republicans. We need to show that our values benefit everyone that shares in them over the long term.

[Demsrule86]

190. It doesn't work that way...one of the reasons Dukakis lost was because when asked a question about

what he would do if his wife was attacked...he gave a responsible measured answer...and it finished off his campaign.

[poboy2]

204. Perfect example.

I doubt anyone will change their mind.
Biden should check his white male patriarchal sexist attitude.

edit-nevermind. This is why we will lose.

[femmedem]

77. I agree, and there's a good opinion piece at The Atlantic about this:

"... The fact that Biden glorified violence in an attempt to display his antipathy toward sexual assault—rather than his antipathy toward protesters, criminals or journalists—doesn’t justify it. For starters, Biden’s comments actually disempower women. As Alyssa Rosenberg noted in the Washington Post, “The way Biden chose to puff himself up is a weird mirror of Trump’s own remarks on the ‘Access Hollywood’ tape: Both men were trying to prove their virility at someone else’s expense. In Trump’s case, that someone else was the women who, theoretically, will let a famous man do anything. In Biden’s, it was another man he boasted he could dominate. And in both scenarios, women and our rights are secondary to how men can use us.” Given Biden’s checkered history on the question of sexual assault—as reflected in his treatment of Anita Hill, for which he has since apologized—he’d do well to take Rosenberg’s critique to heart.

Secondly, Biden encouraged disrespect for the law. Survivors of sexual violence don’t need vigilantes. They need clear rules about what constitutes unacceptable conduct, and officials willing to enforce them. Biden’s comments oddly echoed the logic of antifa, the leftist group that has been violently confronting white nationalist gatherings: Because our enemies are vile, and our motives are pure, we can take the law into our hands..."

More: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/i-would-have-beat-the-hell-out-of-him/556211/

[EffieBlack]

122. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing it!

[janterry]

200. I was just reading this, ty for posting it

and talking about these ideas with my daughter.

[femmedem]

206. Your daughter is lucky to have a parent who introduces these ideas to her!

I bet she will-or has?--grown up to be a thoughtful, critical thinker.

[Rorey]

79. "If we were in high school...."

45 is twisting what Joe Biden actually said into a direct challenge. It's typical of 45 (and republicans) to twist the words of others to fit their agenda. I don't see anything wrong with what Joe Biden said. "If we were in high school...." doesn't equate to a current day challenge to fight. JMO

[EffieBlack]

81. Some of the responses to this OP are very revealing

Among other things, they expose a troubling degree of sexism and bias in our party.

The applauding of macho behavior as a positive political attribute - and the suggestion that Hillary wasn't "tough" enough because she didn't display more of it - reveals a mindset in our party that should be very concerning.

According to this attitude, unless a candidate can talk more like a bully, they're weak. But anyone being honest knows that while this might work for a man, any woman who behaved that way would be lambasted as too hard, too coarse and, of course, "not likeable." And since most women politicians would not speak or behave that way, are they disqualified from running for president because a man will always be more macho and, therefore, "tougher?"

And the insistence that this kind of talk is a good thing because it "appeals" to red state voters should make us think about our own values and motivations. Are we trying to replicate Trump's behavior or present ourselves as a superior alternative? Trump's racism appeals to many of those voters, too. Should we imitate that, as well? And where does all that "economic insecurity" talk fit in?

"Toughness" comes in many forms. Boasting about beating someone up in high school isn't necessarily one of them. And the fact that such talk appeals to a certain element within and outside of our party and maybe within each of us doesn't make it a good thing.

All in all, this is a very interesting - and illuminating- conversation.

Carry on.

[njhoneybadger]

110. What I find troubling is how Quick you are to judge the motives of fellow DUers

making baseless accusations of sexism and bias

[EffieBlack]

119. Yes, because we can never ever ever suggest that anyone on our side may have any sexism or bias in t

[njhoneybadger]

137. We tend to find what we are looking for.

[EffieBlack]

169. Aw, yes. If only we didnt talk about sexism or racism it would just go away

Nice to see that the “Talking about sexism/racism is sexist/racist” element is still alive on DU.

[Demsrule86]

194. Give it a rest. I have fought and experienced sexism my entire life..Joe Biden is a good guy and I

like him. I actually think we need new faces...younger candidates. But Calling people who disagree with your opinion of Joe Biden names is unwarranted. What does it matter? If he wins the primary I sure as hell will vote for him...I would vote for a ham sandwich to strip Trump of power...Trump got all rattled and made some pretty stupid tweets...which were amusing. Seriously, I usually look forward to your posts...but this?

[EffieBlack]

197. Pointing out sexism isn't calling people names

And experiencing sexism your entire life does not make you the arbiter of what is and isn't sexism or when anyone else can bring it up.

Moreover, if you actually read my post, you will see that it was not referring to everyone who disagreed with me nor did I accuse Biden of sexism (although the fact that you "like him and he's a good guy" doesn't mean he couldn't be sexist). I was very specific about what in particular found to be evidence of bias.

So, no, I won't "give it a rest." If, notwithstanding how much you usually enjoy my posts, something I write makes you so uncomfortable that you feel the need to lecture me about what I can and can't say and when, you are always free to just ignore me.

[Demsrule86]

199. I don't consider myself the arbiter...that is not the point...this is about Biden. I worked with him

in Ohio...he is a good guy. He is great on the stump too...that being said I would prefer a younger candidate. Just because a person supports him does not make them sexist ...he has support ...in a recent poll he was the number one Democrat.

[EffieBlack]

203. What does your opinion about Biden that have to do with the comment you're complaining about

My comment wasn't even about Biden.

And if you don't want people to think you believe you're an arbiter of what can and cannot be said, you might want to refrain from demanding anyone "give it a rest" when they say something you don't agree with it.

[MicaelS]

198. Your posts are very revealing.

Good thing you weren't around in FDR or Truman's day, you probably would have had a stroke.

[EffieBlack]

201. Yes, I'm glad my posts "reveal" to you that I am willing to honestly call them as I see them

Even when my liberal allies believe they are too beyond reproach to even consider that they could possibly still have some bias and might have room for improvement.

And it's amusing that you would bring up Truman and FDR since I just posted the other day about how African Americans have always had to take the good and bad in candidates, in response to someone complaining about having to vote for Hillary despite disagreeing with her about the Iraq War. So, no - I wouldn't have "had a stroke" about them. I'm too politically sophisticated for that. But if you think pointing out bias is the equivalent of having a stroke, maybe you'd better check your own sensitivity meter.

[mcar]

84. I bow to no one in my love for Joe

But I agree with you, Effie. We don't need a dick waving contest and Joe shouldn't run in 2020.

I wish him a long, happy retirement.

[karynnj]

88. Biden would never have been my first choice, but I wouldn't support him

Whole heartedly. His comment was referring to high school. Even with it being high school, I would prefer he use his words, not fight, but he is nowhere near being like Trump.

I think he might have been a stronger 2016 candidate than Hillary if his son had never had cancer, but By 2020, he would be 77 years old.

It is terrible to equate him or any Democrat to Trump.

[rzemanfl]

89. I am reading this thread with an eye to post counts.

The shit stirrers from across the pond seem to be asleep today, or maybe their server is down.

I am 70 years old and after witnessing this long running shit show, the thought of my knuckles coming into violent contact with the orange blob's nose does appeal to me. I am not ashamed to say it.

[EffieBlack]

93. I understand how you feel

But you're not running for president.

[rzemanfl]

100. I couldn't afford the NDAs.

[EffieBlack]

170. Lol!

[rzemanfl]

177. As if those ladies, now in their late '60s or early '70s, could be located.

[Demsrule86]

191. I agree. I hate Trump so much...

[nolabear]

99. Per the statement I think it depends on what he does now.

If he chuckles and says “Man, wed better watch this guy if one offhand remark can drive him so over the edge. We need somebody else dealing with aggressive world leaders.”

I can see it both ways where Joe is concerned. If I could name a better contender I would but so far I don’t see anyone who has, not the ability, but the cred and name and feistiness. But he’s got flaws.

Let’s see what he does now. Baiting 45 is an interesting move.

[EffieBlack]

106. Hillary baited Trump regularly

But when she did, she was accused of focusing too much on him.

Hillary offers a incisive and true observation about Trump supporters and is still being blasted for it a week later. Biden makes a stupid comment and folks laugh, shrug and say, " Oh, come on. That's just JOE!"

[nolabear]

117. All true, and rageworthy. Or what Id really like to say:

Can you believe this shit? That fool in the WH thinks he’s been the subject of a witch hunt...

[Drunken Irishman]

136. You nailed it.

Thank you.

Hillary baited Trump and his supporters with observations. No one wants to hear observations when the guy you're running against is hyperbole.

Trump: Hillary is a criminal. She's corrupt. She needs to be locked up.

Hillary: A Trump presidency would be dangerous for America.



That's the difference. One is biting and the other, while 100% true, lacks the bite to hit Trump.

Especially in the debates. Hillary was tough but not tough enough. She was reserved. She let Trump flail about because we were all convinced his doing so would HURT him.

And I don't blame her. We all thought, sooner or later, Trump's rhetoric and actions, the crazy he brought, would catch up to him. But it never did.

Now we know. We can't treat 2020 like 2016. We can't just make observations anymore. We've gotta get nasty or Trump is going to walk to reelection.

[EffieBlack]

158. I agree

But a 75-year-old man saying he’d like to beat Trump up is not the kind of nasty that will get us anywhere.

[lunamagica]

157. Right. The old double standard is alive and well

[Mike Nelson]

108. He's getting...

...some attention for himself - and the SCPOTUS replied accordingly. I guess he thinks he could beat Biden in 2020. I think Biden would win easily, but not sure he can win the Nomination...

[Paladin]

111. I love Joe Biden. No "but's" about it. (nt)

[Cuthbert Allgood]

113. Oh, come one, Biden is poking the bear.

It's hilarious. And Trump took the bait like the champion he is at that.

[EffieBlack]

123. That's fine. But we don't need our nominee poking the bear

Especially with silly rhetoric like this.

If he wants to be an instigator, that's great. But he shouldn't be the nominee.

[dameatball]

127. We talk about Trump's "distractions" every day, so why did Biden just hand him a freebie?

[Nitram]

128. I'm afraid I have to agree. His latest outburst was way too Trumpian.

[Drunken Irishman]

130. Democrats won't win by playing nice.

If Democrats want to lose to Trump in 2020, the fastest way to that is by nominating someone who's intelligent, articulate ... and treats Trump like they're running against any ol' politician. That absolutely is a sure-fire way to lose the election in two years.

Just ask Hillary Clinton. She was tough and even her rhetoric wasn't tough enough in the debates. Meanwhile, Trump went off the rails, spoke brashly and crazily, and it worked. Sometimes the best way you fight chaos is with chaos. We tried the safe bet in 2016, we tried to stay above the fray and let Trump dangle at the bottom. IT. DID. NOT. WORK.

Oh sure. "But the Russians!"

Fuck that. Even without the Russians, the election would've been painfully closer than it should have ever been.

We need to fight fire with fire. If the Democrats are going to have a shot at beating Trump, they need someone who can equal his bravado and cut him down for size. If they don't find that person, I guarantee Trump will win reelection.

[radius777]

174. Exactly, and humans are hardwired to side w/strength.

Dems need more toughness, both from men and women, whether or not it comes across as macho or strident or whatever.

Hillary had the toughness but it was restrained by a crappy campaign strategy to appeal to suburban women.

People like to feel bad-ass and that their leaders 'have their back' -and vote accordingly. Bill Maher is correct on this point.

Milquetoast pacifism and victorian white feminism that expects everyone to fold their hands and drink their apple juice doesn't work in the real world.

I don't support Biden for nominee, because Dems only win with a fresh face (Bill, Obama).

Biden has been around too long and is a gaffe machine.

But one thing about him, you know he has your back, and will fight for you.

[askyagerz]

132. I have defended many women by beating the shit out of some asshole

Sometimes its the only way assholes can get the point. I would hope any man would step in for a distressed woman.

[rzemanfl]

155. Never lost a fight? n/t

[askyagerz]

159. Nope

But even if I were to be killed it would still have been the right thing to do as a man who still believes in chivalry. If more men would stand up to these boys pretending to be men the world would be a better place. Probably wouldn't have Trump as president right now

[rzemanfl]

160. I hope you don't live in a "stand your ground" state or it will happen. n/t

[askyagerz]

164. Could happen anytime anyone stands up for what's right

But I'm not going to stand by and let something bad happen to a woman or child either. If you saw a kid getting ready to get hit by a car would you stand there or put your life in danger?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

133. Maybe - but I love it that Dolt 45 took the bait.

Biden was just wisecracking about what his high school self would have done but Trump took it as a literal threat and a challenge. I think Biden ought to keep it up until Trump explodes in a shower of enraged orange lard. If Joe runs in 2020 I'll vote for him.

[nolabels]

138. He was the guy with the gavel that that took the Iran-Contra scandal into executive session at......

very heated and times then later helped preside over the eventual shelving of the investigation. Pretty sure that is not how you lead. The institution you are representing is too sensitive to be seen in certain lights or worse then why do you function with it or in it at any rate. This is called enabling in simple terms.

[karynnj]

147. Biden was not even on the Senate Committee that had hearings - Inouye was the Chairman

https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/h-keyplayers.php

[Gothmog]

139. I would support Joe if he ran

[Vinca]

141. I agree with you. I love Joe, but we don't want to stoop to Trump level.

[SCVDem]

142. Is this still DU?

Trump is talking about extra judicial punishments including death to our citizens and you all are upset over 50 year old chivalry.

Priorities and focus please.

[Demsrule86]

182. +1000

[Binkie The Clown]

144. It's time for the old folks to be put out to pasture.

Please don't expect to run the same kind of aging candidates and expect a different result. Isn't that the very definition of crazy? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

[IronLionZion]

148. How else does one deal with an idiot dotard?

There's no talking sense into him. He won't listen to his own advisers from his own party. He's never going to change his ways. He was an asshole from the day he was born. Joe is not the first to threaten him with assault. There are decades of records of people wishing a beat down upon this dipshit. Everyone knows he deserves it.

If someone had gotten a young Donny and straightened him out long ago, our country would be in a much better shape today.

[JaneQPublic]

149. Biden also challenged another Dem to a fist fight.

Howard Dean, back in January, after Dr. Dean opined that the Dems in their 70s needed to step aside and let much younger candidates lead the pack in 2020 for the presidential election.

Probably Uncle Joe thinks that kind of talk makes him look young and tough, but instead it makes him look like a cranky old man.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/367532-biden-responds-to-howard-deans-remarks-about-older-dems-i-can-take-him

[Blue Owl]

150. I'd kinda like to see Diamond Joe working over that flaccid punching bag

[highmindedhavi]

151. Trump will bring up how Biden treated Anita Hill

Younger people don't remember, you know he'll bring it up.

[ucrdem]

156. LOL, and Biden will bring up the latest handful of handfuls.

Biden 1, Trump 0.

[highmindedhavi]

161. They didn't take place while he was in office , like Biden or Clinton.

[ucrdem]

165. LOL, wait a week.

[treestar]

218. How can the Dotard have

Any credibility to make a charge over something like that?

[LisaM]

153. This whole nonsense made me think that someone probably DID beat up Trump when he was younger.

We all saw how well that worked out. If that's what happened, he's never stopped compensating for it.

Do I get people getting riled up and throwing a punch in anger? Absolutely. But the idea of planning a fight and beating some kid up behind the gym is different, really different.

I'm sure Trump was a totally obnoxious rich kid in school, and I've long suspected he has daddy issues, but this rhetoric by Biden is not only not helpful, it's probably a trigger point for a lot of kids who were beaten up in high school or junior high.

[ucrdem]

154. It's not out-macho so much as out-motor mouth.

As others have pointed out, Joe is about as good a match for King Faux Pas as we've got. I'd give him an even chance if gets the nom, and less for any other combo save a Clinton-Obama ticket. That I'd give a 90% chance of winning.

[treestar]

219. The problem with everyone going on about youth

Is that the Dotard is old and we might need someone more his age to sort of be equal. Joe does have that.

[Willie Pep]

171. I actually think a person like Biden is what we need now.

"When they go low, we go high" hasn't really worked out for us that much. I would like to see more Democrats like Biden with that fighting spirit. Maybe not to this extent but still, I am sick of the stereotype that liberals are weaklings. Liberals used to have a reputation as fighters but now a lot of people see us as weak. I think this actually demoralizes potential Democratic voters who stay home because they think nobody is fighting for them. As much as I hate it sometimes, Americans are obsessed with toughness perhaps as a legacy of our frontier days.

[Proud liberal 80]

209. Agree

I love Michelle Obama, “going high when they go low doesn’t work”

[joshcryer]

172. This is the level that Trump has lowered our discourse.

If you don't fight at his level you will guarantee him another term.

[Proud liberal 80]

210. Yep

[herding cats]

231. I very deeply hope this isn't true.

My dream: Biden can run and expose how ludicrous Trump is by using his game against him. Thus, becoming our super hero of Trump exposure.

Meanwhile: removed from all the drama our real choice is out there being sincere, genuine and honest. Winning the hearts and minds of people with simple logic and facts. Zero drama and no theatrics. Just an honest decent person not playing games and being false to us to pimp their brand and win fans.

I know, it's a fantasy, but you have to admit it's a nice one. At least it is to me.

You're probably correct, but I'm not feeling good about this in the least.

[serbbral]

175. On Biden

I am not saying that I would not vote for him, but I do not think he should run. He had his chance in 2016. He didn't do it then, so just sit down somewhere. I do not think he or Bernie should run. I'm sorry but both of them are just too old. Sorry.

[treestar]

220. The Dotard is too old and he will

Be running.

I’m not sure we need someone so young as his opponent.

[serbbral]

249. He is too old too.

[Demsrule86]

181. I had the pleasure of working with Biden in 12 during the Youngstown rally...he is very very good.

Biden and Clinton...helped re-elect Pres. Obama. I have to tell you it was touch and go at first.

[WheelWalker]

208. I support Joe Biden...

and I've got a Tubman I'll let ride on the Scranton Kid.

[quaker bill]

211. Seriously?

In this environment, you get your knickers in a twist over something like this?

This is why we have trouble winning, anytime any candidate shows a bit of temper, they become "unelectable".

[EffieBlack]

213. Excuse me, but I don't wear knickers and if I did, I would never let them get in a twist

And if I thought that Biden's comment made him "unelectable," I would have said so. But since I didn't say that - or anything close - I obviously don't think that's the case. If you got that from my OP, you might want to work on your reading comprehension rather than waste time worrying about what's going on with my knickers.

[quaker bill]

215. and someone "should not run"

because they are "electable" then? I see nothing disqualifying about his statement, he has said such stuff before. We could use a bit of this sort energy. Call offensive things offensive for a change, and do it in plain speech for a change. We could be a bit angry and even have a candidate who sounds like it. It would be refreshing. We need a fighter, not a person with raft of talking points and position papers.

Yes, I know we will have to keep the smelling salts and fainting couches handy for some.

My reading comprehension needs no work. You know, back in the day, politicians used direct language, some of it far bolder than anything Joe has said. They, curiously enough, got elected.

[BannonsLiver]

216. Its been like this all day

People bringing up the Anita Hill stuff with nary a word about the perverted lying asshole Thomas, but plenty about how awful Joe Biden was. Nauseating. And shows a total lack of perspective.

[Voltaire2]

214. I would pay money to see that fight.

It’s good. It gets into Shitler where he is weak. He’s a blow hard fake bully. Biden would kick his ass.

[BannonsLiver]

217. Mika and Joe are certified dolts

I pay no attention to what they say until they play the false equivalency game as Mika is doing with the two crazy uncles comment. Both of them can GFT, honestly. I’ve got socks smarter than both of them.

[bettyellen]

226. Totally agree. No more swinging dicks, of any persuasion. He acted the fool again.

[ooky]

227. Back when Joe was in high school thats how things got settled.

I don’t take much from that comment other than its Joe being Joe. I think he’d make a good President and leader we could be proud of. Something this country has never needed worse than it does right now.

[shanny]

228. Do NOT equate Joe Biden

with Donald Fucking Trump. Even if, or especially if, Mika does.

Remember Mika's role in getting us her.

Do NOT buy their framing.

[EffieBlack]

238. Oh, please. I dont equate the two at all. Thats why I think Biden shouldnt

go around talking like he’s trying to meet him at his level. And judging by many of the comments in this thread, it sounds like plenty of DUers WANT him to stoop to Trump’s level.

As for Mika, I don’t need to be instructed about buying anyone’s “framing” as I am more than capable of forming my own opinions. That includes not throwing out an otherwise well-grounded opinion just because someone I abhor happens to feel the same way,

[poboy2]

244. You just do not want to do what it takes to win.

Biden standing up for a woman under attack is not the same as calling a woman fat, ugly, or whatever bullshit the anus farts.
Bullies need punching. Basic fact.
People vote primarily on emotion. Our emotional tug is justice, fairness, and compassion.
Fighting for that is never wrong.

This thread should show you you are wrong, but you keep digging in.

Your way is a guaranteed LOSS.

I will say again, Biden is too old. But this line of nitpicking criticism with what we face is a LOSER.

[EffieBlack]

245. Yup - you got me!

Because anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong and couldn't possibly "want to do what it takes to win." Because your way is not only the right way, it's the ONLY way.

[poboy2]

246. I'm not the one who started this thread disqualifying someone over something so mundane.

Not even an issue for me. You started the thread, geez.

this thread is done. Mountain of molehill made...by you...to divide...done

[EffieBlack]

247. But you are the one who keeps kicking it to tell me you're not interested in it

You're certainly expending an awful lot
of time and energy on a "mundane" "molehill" non-issue you've pronounced to be "done."