OPINION: Mississippi Women's Activist - Bernie Sanders Can't Come to the Cookout

[EffieBlack]

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2018/apr/04/opinion-mississippi-womens-activistbernie-sanders-/

When the run-up to the 2016 primary season started, I was so ready to feel the Bern, y'all. I wasn't a Hillary stan even though I loved her in the '90s as a young woman. What I didn't like as a feminist was being told to support her due to our shared gender without knowing her specific platforms. I was feeling Bernie.

Yet some people can't be invited to the cookout. They just can't. They might sound like they are kinda down but then they open their mouth a few too many times, and there it is—nonsense just flows freely from their lips like water over Niagara falls. Bernie cannot come to the cookout. Sorry, not sorry.
...
Martin Luther King Jr. was many things but he was never a man who was flexible about human rights. He died working for economic and racial justice. He certainly wasn't a man who didn't understand intersectionality even before we had a word for it ... Bernie Sanders' so-called "revolution" of mostly white people is not any such thing. As I write this, I am confused and insulted that our city and our mayor whom I've supported would bring this man to honor one of the most revered black leaders in our history. We're supposed to believe that Bernie Sanders has insight on the economic legacy and vision of Martin Luther King Jr. when he doesn't even understand the racism of white people and intersectionality?
...
This town hall isn't special; they are taking the usual Bernie town hall and putting Martin Luther King's name on it. It's glaringly obvious, offensive and frankly it is just gross. This is especially true as our city is still refusing to address state-sanctioned violence in the form of a long string of police shootings since last summer with the mayor and police chief, so far, refusing to reveal the officers' identity or other specifics.

[Bradshaw3]

1. Here's one example of Bernie's activism in the civil rights movement

It talks about his work in the early 60s in Chicago as a member of CORE:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/bernie-sanders-core-university-chicago/

Even though I supported Hillary in the primary, I don't understand the hate for Bernie on here, espeically on this topic. His commitment to civil rights is not just words; he actually marched and sat in, as did others. I watched a program last night on MLK in which he praised the white people in those early days who did speak out and protest for civil rights. Since Sanders was one of those people I have no doubt that if King were alive today he would praise Bernie for his efforts.

[RDANGELO]

2. Thank you. n/t

[EffieBlack]

3. Early 60s being the operative term

It’s nice that he did civil rights in college ... before he relocated to the whitest area of the country where the struggle for civil rights wasn’t much of an issue.

I’m not mad at him and I don't hate him but holding him up as some great civil rights icon because he participated in some protests in college - along with millions of other people - but has done little Inc the ensuing years to fight for people of color beyond voting with Democrats (hardly a risk, given his liberal constituency) is more than annoying, not to mention insulting to those who stayed in the fight. For example, John Lewis, who some Sanders supporters have the nerve to smear as a “sellout.”

And I’m sick of black people’s opinions about this being dismissed as if we just don’t know what we're talking about but if someone tells us ONE MORE TIME that Bernie participated in some protests 55 years ago, we, too will finally understand that he’s an awesome civil rights hero.

[Bradshaw3]

5. The only dismissiveness here is on your part

You dismiss what he did at a time when the vast majority of white people would not do such things. It was not easy to do, no matter what it looks like 50 years later to some.

You make it sound like he moved to Vermont BECAUSE it is white. Do you have some proof of that?

Some Sanders supporters accuse Lewis of being a sellout? Did Bernie? Do you have some proof of that?

How do you know he didn't support POC during his time in Congress? Saying he just voted with Democrats is very dismissive, unless you have some proof of cowardice on the race issue on his part.

Again, no one is being dismissive toward black people - which seems to be a regular accusation - but if someone is going to post in a forum people are going to ask question, give other opinions and point out inconvenient facts and ask others to support their views with facts. That's not being dismissive - it's part of what a good discussion is.

To me, MLK's legacy is in fighting hate. I understand many on here hate Bernie, hate his supporters and hate anyone who voted for drumpf, even the ignorant ones. I don't think that exemplifies King's legacy.

[EffieBlack]

6. I dont dismiss it at all. I just refuse to elevate it into something it wasnt

And while it was a good thing to do, it wasn’t enough to live on for the next 50 years.

This has nothing to do with hate, so don’t even try that argument.

[Bradshaw3]

24. Yes it was dismissive

And no one was trying to elevate it into something other than to show what he did do for the civil rights movement at a time when the vast majority of white people weren't.

I had hoped that you could back up some of the claims you made as to the questions posed. Alas, not The other.

I only bring up hate when I see a lot of negativity aimed at someone who doesn't deserve it, at least not based on anything I've seen posted here.

[EffieBlack]

25. Can you name 3 actions that Bernie took in the last 40 years in support of civil rights for POC

that required him to take any political or personal risk?

I never said he moved to Vermont BECAUSE he’s white. But his whiteness did provide him that option - an option that black folks who couldn’t just pick up, walk away from the movement and go live where they didn’t have to deal with those issues. That’s not a criticism of him, but an observation about the privilege that he was able to exercise and took full advantage of.

And if, as you acknowledge, this is a complaint that many people raise, why do you assume we’re just wrong? Do you know more about this than we do?

[Bradshaw3]

32. I'll be glad to answer that when you've answered my questions

It is also interesting to note that on a day when people are celebrating MLK's legacy you choose to post a divisive attack like this.

What I would like to see is the Democratic Party win big in 2018 and 2020 so they can help POC, working people, education, the environment and a long list of other priorities that are only going to happen if DEMs win. Attacking those who support these priorities (and in Sanders case votes to caucus with the Dems and for Democratic legislation) isn't going to help those goals.

Why don't we bring in those who don't meet our every standard, who haven't always done everythign the way we like, and help take this country back from the soulless fucks who have taken it over. They are going to do everything they can to hurt POC. We should be coming together to fight them.

[EffieBlack]

34. In other words, you cant think of anything

And the “you’re being divisive because I don’t like what you’re saying” doesn’t work with me. First, it’s not up to you to decide what can and can’t be discussed, today or any day. And if you think that raising an issue that makes you uncomfortable is “divisive,” then you’re not ready to discuss race in America since it’s the history, the reality of the issue that makes it divisive, not the discussion of it.

[Cha]

36. Sorry, not everyone thinks so highly of what BS is doing in Jackson, Mississippi..

Link to tweet

[brush]

127. Ahhh...FYI, it wasn't that unusual for white people to protest with the civil rights movement in...

in the 60s (Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney).

Where do you get that from? There was plenty of crossover from the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement from both white and black people, as well as Latinos.

And many remained active.

So please...

[EffieBlack]

141. Especially among college students in Chicago.

It was actually quite common

[progressoid]

35. What is your standard for political or personal risk?

Can you apply that same standard to most white Democratic leaders and name 3 actions for them as well?

Frankly I doubt you would accept any examples anyway since your disdain for Bernie prevents you from acknowledging anything posted in defense of him.

[EffieBlack]

41. You seem to be an intelligent, literate person - Im sure I dont need to define it for you

And we’re not talking about other politicians. We’re talking about Bernie Sanders, specifically about his civil rights record - the point of the article that people are dismissing.

And you and I both know that refusing to provide anything with the excuse that you don’t think I’ll accept it is a cop out, especially since your concern about how I’d receive it hasn’t prevented you from commenting up until now.

I’ll just take your failure to offer anything in response for what we both know it is.

[iluvtennis]

47. Right on...agree

[progressoid]

55. Actually you do need to define your terms.

So here's a couple quick examples

Sanders was the first presidential candidate to speak out about the case of Sandra Bland, who died while in police custody in July 2015. Emphasizing the wide racial disparity in these cases, he said poignantly that it was “very hard to imagine a white middle-class woman treated in the same way that Sandra Bland was.”

How about this:

Sanders co-sponsored the Democracy Restoration Act of 2015 with Reid, Leahy, Durbin, Whitehouse, Mikulski, Gillibrand, and Booker. In which it states

(10) State disenfranchisement laws disproportionately impact racial and ethnic minorities. Eight percent of the African-American population, or 2,000,000 African-Americans, are disenfranchised. Given current rates of incarceration, approximately 1 in 3 of the next generation of African-American men will be disenfranchised at some point during their lifetime. Currently, 1 of every 13 African-Americans are rendered unable to vote because of felony disenfranchisement, which is a rate 4 times greater than non African-Americans. 7.7 percent of African-Americans are disenfranchised whereas only 1.8 percent of non African-Americans are. In 3 States—Florida (23 percent), Kentucky (22 percent), and Virginia (20 percent)—more than 1 in 5 African-Americans are unable to vote because of prior convictions.

Do these meet your standards?

[EffieBlack]

67. No, they dont. Not even close.

Apparently, I DO need to define my terms, even though they are quite plain and I suspect you fully understand them.

So let’s use the standard for the Kennedy Profile in Courage Award as a model:

Political risk = risking his career to fight for African-American civil rights or taking a stand for civil rights for African Americans in spite of pressure by interest groups, his political party, or even his constituents.

So ...

What political risk was involved in speaking out about the death of a black woman in police custody during a Democratic primary? Who would have objected? Did he have to buck his party or constituents to do this? Would any of his campaign supporters object to him saying anything?

FYI, Sandra Bland’s mother endorsed and campaigned for Hillary Clinton ... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sandra-blands-mother-to-campaign-for-hillary-clinton/

Regarding the Democracy Restoration Act, I’m not sure where you’re getting your information, but it’s not accurate. 17 - not 7 - Senators co-sponsored the bill, but Bernie wasn’t one of them. Maybe it was too risky?

Seriously, I don’t know why he didn’t sign on to the bill, but he didn’t. But even if he had, what political risk would he have faced in joining 17 other Senate Democrats and 57 House Democrats in signing on to someone else’s voting rights bill? Who would have pressured him not to? Did he have to worry about his constituents turning on him if he supported voting rights?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/772/cosponsors

Maybe you can come up with something that actually involved political risk?

[progressoid]

72. See? Told ya you have to define it.

Asking for a definition has nothing to do with a cop-out on my part.

So... using the definition you chose - risking his career to fight for African-American civil rights or taking a stand for civil rights for African Americans in spite of pressure by interest groups, his political party, or even his constituents - tell us, what other white Democrat meet have met that standard? Indeed, did Hillary take a stand for civil rights for African Americans in spite of pressure by interest groups, her political party, or even her constituents?


How about this one?

In 1994, there was a successful effort to end the Pell Grant program for prisoners, which was one of the most effective ways to reduce recidivism. Amid hysteria that led to that year's Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (known as the “crime bill”), Congress voted to end this long-time lifeline for prisoners, with the approval of President Bill Clinton.

Only a handful of members of Congress voted against the legislation, and almost all of them were members of the Black Caucus. Sanders was one of the few white members who opposed this effort. It passed by 351 to 39. Of those in the House who opposed that vote, Reps. John Lewis, Jose Serrano, Charlie Rangel, and Bernie Sanders stood together at that time.

p.s. I don't think you read your link. Sanders is the 6th co-sponsor of bill 772. He's listed between Barbara Mikulski and Sherrod Brown.

[EffieBlack]

84. You're right - I looked several times, but totally missed his name

That's what I get for posting in the middle of the night.

But the rest of my point stands.

And Pell Grants, while benefitting black prisoners, actually benefit more white prisoners than black. The fact that Bernie voted for something something benefits lots of people including blacks is not the same as taking action in support of civil rights for blacks.

And what political risk did he take in voting against an amendment that rescinded Pell Grants for prisoners? Did he face any pressure from his constituents or supporters to vote for it? Did he get any blowback afterward for his vote?

Also, that was an amendment to the 1994 Crime Bill - it passed 312-119. Sanders was one of 119 Members to vote no - and scores of the no votes came from white Members, so he surely didn't stand alone. https://www.congress.gov/amendment/103rd-congress/house-amendment/521

AND, although he voted no on the Amendment to the Crime Bill, he voted YES on the final bill that contained the amendment, so, in the end, he actually voted FOR ending the Pell Grant program for prisoners. Hardly a profile in courage on this issue.

[progressoid]

90. It's clear Sanders doesn't meet your standard. However, this still begs the question, does anyone?

More specifically, has any other white politician risked his or her career to fight for African-American civil rights or taken a stand for civil rights for African Americans in spite of pressure by interest groups, his/her political party, or even his/her constituents?

Can you name 3 actions that Hillary took in the last 40 years in support of civil rights in spite of pressure by interest groups, her political party, or even her constituents?

[EffieBlack]

92. This has nothing to with Hillary

Hillary has never gone around positioning herself as a great leader on civil rights, she's not running for anything, so she's irrelevant to this discussion. So I don't need to ask what political risks Hillary took - she proved herself time and again and again by working with us and being there with us.

The bottom line is that, since his protest activity in the early 1960s, Bernie Sanders has done very little to advance the cause of civil rights. On top of that, he rarely, if ever, did anything with minorities or in the civil rights community, had no relationships with minorities and was pretty much unknown in our communities because he had done nothing to establish a relationship with us. Yet since he ran for president, he has positioned himself as a major player on civil rights, but his supporters can point to nothing that he has done in the last 55 years for civil rights for African Americans. The few things that people reference are either not really civil rights matters or they are things that he would have done anyway and didn't require any special effort on his part.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, for the past 50 years, has established strong relationships with African Americans and in the black community. We came to know her. We appreciated her efforts. We didn't always agree with her and sometimes she (and Bill) got it wrong and screwed up. But they were THERE with us and we saw them like family - not perfect, but there and supportive.

Bernie hasn't been here, we don't know him, we haven't seen him, but now we're being told that he's done so much on civil rights. So I ask, what has he done? And I get long lists of things, most of which have little to do with or are tangential to civil rights for African Americans - like the Pell Grant example you gave. So I ask a more specific question: what has he done explicitly for African Americans that wasn't something he'd have done anyway as part of representing his liberal constituency in Vermont. When did he go out of his way for US? When did he do something for US that wasn't easy or a side effect of something he was doing for someone else anyway?

And I never get a satisfactory answer - because he hasn't done anything special. He just hasn't been here.

That's fine. I'm not mad at him about it. And it's not a reason to not support him.

But the problem is that he continues to behave as if black folk are supposed to be grateful to him because he protested for civil rights 55 years ago. And then we are subjected to all manner of whitesplaining - sometimes in the most obnoxious and condescending tones and language - why we just don't UNDERSTAND what a civil rights champion Bernie is. In reality, if Bernie were such a civil rights stalwart, we wouldn't need his supporters to explain it to us - we'd already know him because we would have been around him, we would have seen him, he would have been at our side in various battles. He hasn't been. The very fact that he has to be introduced and explained to us tells us everything we need to know about his civil rights record because you can't be any great shakes on civil rights for black folk if black folk don't even know who you are.

[KPN]

187. People must risk their careers to meet your approval/acceptance?

[EffieBlack]

190. Oh, please - don't be ridiculous or put words on my my posts

This has nothing to do with "meeting my approval" (although, as a voter, any candidate wanting my vote needs to clear that hurdle ...)

Bernie Sanders and his supporters consistently point to his long-ago protest and arrest as proof of his civil rights bona fides while ignoring the fact that he hasn't been much of a civil rights crusader since. I simply asked what he's done in the past 50 years to fight for civil rights for African Americans - and not just things like "he voted against taking away Pell Grants from prisoners" or he endorsed Jesse Jackson or the other things folks love to list but aren't anything special that a liberal senator with a liberal constituency would do as a matter of course.

I really don't care that Sanders hasn't been a leader on civil rights in the last 50 years. He's been on the right side of the issues and votes right, so I'm fine with his record. But I do resent being told that he's supposed to get some special consideration as if he's done something so unique and courageous that he should be given extra credit by black voters because he got arrested 50 years ago. He's just not that special to us and hasn't earned a lifetime civil rights gold medal along with our endless gratitude.

[KPN]

191. Ouch again.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[KPN]

208. Of course it does, you just said as much yourself.

"as a voter, any candidate wanting my vote needs to clear that hurdle ...". Did you think I was referring to just anybody? This thread is about a political figure, a politician. My use of the word "people" reflected that context -- yes, I could have been clearer about that and will try to be more precise in the future. I'm just trying to express how I perceive your words just as you express your perceptions of others' words in this thread -- including Senator Sanders. Parsing words (my use of the word people vs candidate) doesn't change the mindset. As I read your statement, it says to me that people who run for office do not meet your approval (your standard) unless ...

[lapucelle]

204. There are serious problems with racially disparate "justice" in Vermont.

There's work to be done in BS's back yard.

African American men continue to die at the hands of law enforcement. Frustration fuels senseless murders of law enforcement and the nation becomes further divided. Nationally, over one-third of the seven million people incarcerated or otherwise under the supervision of corrections are African American. Vermont, statistically leads the nation with one in 14 African American males incarcerated in State prisons. Vermont is 5th in the nation for state prison black / white differential at 10.5.

http://justiceforallvt.org/blog/

[jrthin]

107. I just adore you. You are so fearless. 😊 nt

[EffieBlack]

114. :-)

[lapucelle]

202. There's work to be done in Vermont.

"People of color are being treated unfairly as a result of institutionalized racism across the nation and here in Vermont. In the criminal justice system these disparities create challenges ranging from disproportionate traffic stops to over representation in prisons. Ashley Nellis of The Sentencing Project reported that Vermont leads the nation with 'one in 14 African American males incarcerated'. Stephanie Seguino of UVM reported that 'the Black arrest rate is almost double the White arrest rate'”.

http://justiceforallvt.org/blog/establish-a-the-racial-justice-oversight-board-in-vermont-adopt-h492/

[EffieBlack]

203. Interesting. Has Bernie responded to or addressed this issue?

[lapucelle]

206. Not that I've heard. The Vermont Poor People's Campaign

held a small seder commemorating the 50th anniversary of the MLK assassination on April 4th. It really didn't get any press.

https://www.poorpeoplescampaignvt.org/

[EffieBlack]

209. That would have been a nice event for him to attend instead of going to Jackson nt

[lapucelle]

213. I think it would have been more in the spirit of the day than a campaign-style event. N/T

[TCJ70]

210. The state legislators and governor should work on that. N/t

[EffieBlack]

218. So should the U.S. Senator who represents them

[David__77]

66. There is a critique that Jewish people benefit from white supremacy.

I disagree.

[George II]

131. What does that have to do with the OP and the discussion? Did I miss something?

[mcar]

132. What?

[SidDithers]

146. Wut?...

Sid

[sheshe2]

175. Wait.

Wut?

[George II]

176. He pretty much did it over only about a 2-year period, in Chicago.

After getting arrested and fined $25 in Chicago and attending the 1963 March on Washington, what exactly has he done since then? Did he participate in any demonstrations in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia?

I find it offensive that if someone criticizes Sanders for anything it's characterized that person "hates" Sanders.

[karynnj]

102. Then as mayor of this whitest area of the country, he and others made it a resettlement area

- yes, in the late 1980s, Chittenden County became a resettlement area. The people resettled include people from Vietnam, Congo, Sudan, Iraq and Bhutan. Driving through town, you will see a diversity that I never saw in the more heterogeneous New Jersey.

[EffieBlack]

106. That's great and very laudable

But it still doesn't mean he was deeply involved in the African American civil rights struggle during his time there.

And, although it's more diverse than the state as a whole, according to the American Community Survey, Burlington is still not particularly diverse, with an 86% white population while Asians make up just 6% and blacks each comprise less than 5% of the population.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/vt/burlington/demographics

[karynnj]

111. Your numbers still do not add up - what are the other 4?

My point is that that was not the action of a community adverse to diversity. The reason it is so low is that there was no big industry like places where Southern blacks immigrated to.

[EffieBlack]

112. You know there are other demographic groups besides blacks and Asians, right?

But I provided you a link to my source, so feel free to look at it yourself.

5% black and 6% Asian isn't what I'd call "diverse."

[EffieBlack]

113. Correction - the white population is 84%, not 86%

[George II]

136. Was that a county initiative or a Burlington initiative? If it was by the county....

...Sanders couldn't be responsible for that.

Plus, there couldn't have been too much resettlement - Burlington today has only 42,000 people and even today, 25+ years later less than 5,000 are non-white. One would have to think that only one or two thousand tops could have been resettled.

Hard to believe that's more diverse than New Jersey.

[KPN]

184. Ouch.

[KPN]

185. Holding him up as "some great civil rights icon? Who has done that?

Do you have links? I haven't seen that.

[David__77]

8. I am glad he also opposed the anti-gay agenda before it was cool to do so.

I value his 1996 vote against DOMA, for instance. This, when a large majority of House Democrats voted for DOMA.

[brush]

17. But then there's that not so thinly veiled "identity politics" dog whistle from the 2016 campaign.

And his ignoring of the AA voters in southern primaries by his campaign.

We remember his much more recent actions.

Guess those were mistakes he's trying to make up for now?

[progressoid]

65. It's interesting that the "identity politics" charge only seems to apply to Bernie

When Joe Biden says it, it's dismissed as 'good ole Joe'. Even Bill Clinton's old pal Stan Greenburg says it. Heck, if you post FDR saying it, it gets 50 rec's and no outrage.

[pnwmom]

39. That was a long time ago. What was he doing for civll rights in the decade before

he ran for President? What did he do after Katrina, for example?

He didn't recognize that the neglect of Katrina was a civil rights issue. Others did.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/294201-clinton-foundation-instrumental-in-katrina-recovery

Today, as I watch the pundits focus the politics of the Clintons’ philanthropic work day after day, I feel it is important that the larger story about the Clinton Foundation's impact is told, especially as it relates to their work in New Orleans post-Katrina. It was after Katrina that the plans for the Clinton Global Initiative came together-- a cross-sector platform that eventually transformed philanthropy and helped inform our efforts to put New Orleans back together, leveraging partnerships and collaborations to bring more resources to the ground. We should remember that this effort after Katrina represented a ground breaking move away from the tired old model where government and NGOs did the same work in the same places, but did not collaborate or coordinate. It was this new way of doing things that our nearly 300-year old city desperately needed.


The Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund itself raised and distributed about $200 million, most of which was dedicated to standing up our colleges, universities, and countless community organizations. The Clinton Global Initiative later worked with Toyota to partner with community organizations like the St. Bernard Project, now SBP, to better prepare us for future disasters and improve the home-building process. SBP has rebuilt more homes, post-Katrina, than any other organization. The foundation brought in world class NGOs such as Global Green USA to assist the city in building LEED-certified schools and engaged Brad Pitt whose commitment to the Clinton Global Initiative was the groundbreaking Make It Right project in the Lower 9th Ward. There too many examples to list them all.


SNIP

[Jim Lane]

59. You ask a very good question about "the hate for Bernie on here"

I voted for Bernie in the primaries. Then, like Bernie himself and the overwhelming majority of his supporters, I voted for Hillary in the general election.

I'm confident that, if Bernie had been the nominee, Hillary herself and the overwhelming majority of her supporters would have voted for him in the general election.

Thank you for confirming that the bash-Bernie brigade on DU doesn't speak for all 17 million Hillary voters.

[David__77]

62. Good statements- thank you.

...

[George II]

105. And after that?

[The Wielding Truth]

152. He is fighting for us all the 99% which includes all colors and creeds. Why can't all see this?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

154. Bernie's civil rights record is sterling, but hey, while we're on that subject,let's bash him anyway

[BeyondGeography]

4. Weak...Where is the beef in this column?

One commenter pretty much deflates the whole thing:

I worked for the UAW during the Nissan union election campaign, and Bernie Sanders was the ONLY national politician who visited these workers (multiple times) and spent hours listening and talking with them about life in the Canton plant. Moreover, our campaign *explicitly* spoke about the intersection of racial and economic justice, and Sanders wholly endorsed that message.

He did the opposite of "playing hokey pokey with social justice," and if you bothered to ask those workers at Nissan in Canton (87% of whom are black), I'm sure they would agree.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

7. That should put a sock in that thread... but it won't

[EffieBlack]

10. No, it will not because trying to force black folks to shut up about Bernie is a nonstarter

You don’t have to consider our opinion about who we think are our champions on civil rights or even listen to us at all. But you’re also not going to “put a sock in it.”

However, the more you try, the more you help us make our point.

[BeyondGeography]

13. That column is an airball

Nobody is trying to shut anyone up. Drivel is drivel.

[EffieBlack]

20. Just because YOU dont agree doesnt make it an air ball. Why not THINK about what shes saying

or what I am saying or what many other people are saying nstead of just assuming that you’re right and anyone who differs with you can’t know what they’re talking about and are just out to get Bernie?

I’ve been deeply involved in the civil rights struggle for nearly 40 years from the local grassroots to the national level, so I know a little something about this space. And one thing I know is that many, many white people have participated in the battle to varying degrees and they deserve a lot of credit for their efforts. I personally know scores if not hundreds of white folk who protested in college. Some of them continued working alongside us in the movement, some went on to other things. But I can count on one hand the number who protested 20, 30, much less nearly 60 years ago and go around talking about it as if it made them special. And they certainly don’t think it makes them some kind of expert on civil rights who knows all the answers and they would never have the nerve to ignore what black people are telling them about civil rights, social justice and equal opportunity or would claim that they can’t be criticized for their view because they participated in a couple of protests a few decades ago.

My problem isn’t with Bernie’s view - he has every right to his opinion. But I do object to and am deeply offended by his belief that he knows better about civil rights than everyone else and his refusal to listen to black folks’ opinions that may differ from his own - an attitude that is compounded by some of his defenders’ similar but exponentially more aggressive approach.

The response to this article is a perfect case and point.instead of actually considering the author’s perspective, it’s dismissed as “an air ball” that needs to “have a sock put in it.”

Nice.

[Bradshaw3]

27. Do you have a link showing where he said that?

That he knows more about civil rights than anyone else? Or that he refuses to listen to black people? A very damning charge. You should back it up.

[EffieBlack]

29. Oh, please

Since it’s impossible to prove a negative, why don’t YOU prove that he listens to blackk people who don’t agree with his approach? Since you’re so certain all of us who feel he doesn’t listen are wrong, surely you can provide some examples of him actually listening to us and adjusting course in response to our concerns and advice - or maybe even saying out loud that we have a valid point that deserves some thought on his part. And by “us,” I’m not talking about Nina Turner or Killer Mike.

[BeyondGeography]

31. Or Mayor Lumumba

What has he failed to understand about Bernie’s shortcomings that you have grasped?

[EffieBlack]

37. Or Senator Manchin

I mean, since you’re pointing to a black person who may not agree with me as some kind of refutation of my opinion, I figured I might as well point to a white person who may not agree with you to undercut your point ...

[Bradshaw3]

33. You made a damning claim you can't back up

It's easily possible to prove your claim -- if it were true. He is a public figure with many quotes and tv appearances. I'm saying you have a feeling that soemthing is true -- which is far different than it being true. Feelings are fine, they don't overrule facts or make untrue claims true.

Please indeed. Let's the stop the unneccesary divisiveness and truly celebrate MLK's legacy by working together.

[EffieBlack]

42. Nice try

But when you ignore people, you don’t have to say or do anything. That’s the essence of ignoring them.

If you think I’m wrong, please feel free to point to something he said or did in response. Apparently, you can’t or bayou wouldn’t keep trying to play these games.

[progressoid]

61. YOU are the one that made the statement.

"his belief that he knows better about civil rights than everyone else and his refusal to listen to black folks’ opinions "

But instead of providing evidence, you demand others prove the opposite.

[yardwork]

87. You posted that the thread should be hidden, as this OP was earlier.

You absolutely wrote that this point of view needed to be shut up on DU.

If you disagree with the columnist or posters, state your point of view. But, please, stop telling posters to shut up.

[sheshe2]

170. Really?

BeyondGeography
13. That column is an airball

Nobody is trying to shut anyone up. Drivel is drivel.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210456880#post1
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210456880#post6

[EffieBlack]

9. You failed to mention the authors answer to the commentator you claimed deflated the whole thing

“Hey there I know because my org supported and marched with the workers too.
I'm aware the campaign spoke about racial and economic justice that was your campaign not his and he has been less than consistent.

“You skipped right over my points about reproductive justice and gun violence but hey feel free to cherry pick to make your point if that's what works for you.”

Clearly, the author is among the many black folk who are sick and tired of the whitesplaining about why we are wrong about (or are picking on or hate) Bernie.

[David__77]

12. Well, the cookout went on with Sanders and Mayor Lumumba!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.clarionledger.com/amp/474303002

Factionalized will be factionalists.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Coverage of that here

http://www.wjtv.com/news/metro/bernie-sanders-joins-mayor-lumumba-for-economic-justice-town-hall/1102326087

Bernie said terrible things like invest in people in poor rural areas instead of prisons, and how Democrats need to be a 50-state party. And Mayor Lumumba talked about Dr. King’s focus on economic justice in his last years. Incendiary stuff.

[David__77]

16. It would perhaps be far better to support the death penalty and financial deregulation.

...

[CentralMass]

11. No minds will be changed here but a few links and contrast of Bernie and Hillary during the era.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/bernie-sanders-core-university-chicago/
Bernie was involved in the movement. He was actually at the march in DC where John Lewis spoke.

"The Georgia congressman was a titan of the civil rights movement. A participant in the Freedom Rides organized by the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), he went on to lead the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and still bears the scars he received at Selma. Sanders’ involvement was, by comparison, brief and localized, his sacrifices limited to one arrest for protesting and a bad GPA from neglecting his studies. But Sanders was, in his own right, an active participant in the movement during his three years at the University of Chicago.

Although Sanders did attend the 1963 March on Washington, at which Lewis spoke, most of his work was in and around Hyde Park, where he became involved with the campus chapter of CORE shortly after transferring from Brooklyn College in 1961. During Sanders’ first year in Chicago, a group of apartment-hunting white and black students had discovered that off-campus buildings owned by the university were refusing to rent to black students, in violation of the school’s policies. CORE organized a 15-day sit-in at the administration building, which Sanders helped lead. (James Farmer, who co-founded CORE and had been a Freedom Rider with Lewis, came to the University of Chicago that winter to praise the activists’ work.) The protest ended when George Beadle, the university’s president, agreed to form a commission to stuThe Georgia congressman was a titan of the civil rights movement. A participant in the Freedom Rides organized by the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), he went on to lead the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and still bears the scars he received at Selma. Sanders’ involvement was, by comparison, brief and localized, his sacrifices limited to one arrest for protesting and a bad GPA from neglecting his studies. But Sanders was, in his own right, an active participant in the movement during his three years at the University of Chicago..

Hillary was a Goldwater Girl during that time.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/goldwater-girl/

WHAT'S TRUE
Hillary Clinton supported Goldwater in the 1964 presidential election; Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
ORIGIN
Despite her current status as a Democratic icon, former first lady, U.S. senator, secretary of state, and presidential candidate Hillary Clinton had some significant exposure to conservative politics in her youth. In her autobiography Living History, Clinton described her father as a “rock-ribbed, up-by-your-bootstraps, conservative Republican and proud of it” and noted that she had been a Young Republican and a supporter of Arizona senator Barry Goldwater, the most prominent conservative Republican of his era, during Goldwater’s (failed) 1964 presidential campaign against incumbent Lyndon Johnson:

I was an active Young Republican, and, later, a Goldwater girl, right down to my cowgirl outfit and straw cowboy hat emblazoned with the slogan “AuH2O.”

My ninth-grade history teacher, Paul Carlon, was, and still is, a dedicated educator and very conservative Republican. Mr. Carlson encouraged me to read Senator Barry Goldwater’s recently published book, The Conscience of a Conservative. That inspired me to write my term paper on the American conservative movement … I liked Senator Goldwater because he was a rugged individualist who swam against the political tide.

[David__77]

15. Sanders also opposes the death penalty.

Some Democrats support it, on the other hand.

[ucrdem]

19. The difference is that Bernie came to it accidentally

and Hillary came to it intellectually. Bernie participated in events going on around him, and that's to his credit, but didn't pursue an interest in civil rights or law after he left Chicago. Hillary did and that makes a huge difference.

[EffieBlack]

21. What does Hillary have to do with this?

Good Lord.

But, if you want to play that game, let’s.

Bernie dabbled in civil rights in college and, apparently finding it not to his liking - or at least not something he wanted to spend a lot of time focusing on - walked away and moved as far away from the movement as he could, settling in one of the whitest parts of the country.

Hillary, on the other hand, walked away from her Republican roots and dived head first into the movement and continued working in it and with it for the next several decades.

[John Fante]

74. This post is do ridiculous and biased

it's amazing anyone bothers engaging in debates with you. You have been thoroughly dismantled in this thread.

Bernie may not be the supreme champion of civil rights in America, but to downplay everything he has done over the years is pathetic.

[sheshe2]

183. Dismantled?

dis·man·tle
[disˈman(t)l]

VERB
dismantled (past tense) · dismantled (past participle)
take (a machine or structure) to pieces.
"the engines were dismantled and the bits piled into a heap" · "the old regime was dismantled"
synonyms: take apart · take to pieces · take to bits · pull apart · pull to pieces · deconstruct · disassemble · break up · strip (down) · knock down · pull down · tear down · demolish · fell · destroy · flatten · level · raze (to the ground) · bulldoze · unbuild

I see nothing of the sort.

[radical noodle]

23. Hillary was a high school girl

in 1964. Her father was a Republican. She never hid the fact that she was a Goldwater girl and also talked about how and why she changed during her college years (which is largely ignored by the Hillary haters).

[AtomicKitten]

134. Hillary was President of the Wellesley Young Republicans Club

Hillary was a high school girl.

Wellesley College, not high school.

[radical noodle]

160. I'm sure you also know that was during her freshman year

Perhaps you should read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/us/politics/05clinton.html

As the nation boiled over Vietnam, civil rights and the slayings of two charismatic leaders, Ms. Rodham was completing a sweeping intellectual, political and stylistic shift. She came to Wellesley as an 18-year-old Republican, a copy of Barry Goldwater’s right-wing treatise, “The Conscience of a Conservative,” on the shelf of her freshman dorm room. She would leave as an antiwar Democrat whose public rebuke of a Republican senator in a graduation speech won her notice in Life magazine as a voice for her generation.

[AtomicKitten]

167. Again, she was in college, not high school.

[radical noodle]

186. She was in high school

during the Goldwater/Johnson election. I know because I'm the same age she is and I was a senior in high school.

[AtomicKitten]

188. I'm not disputing that. I'm saying she still identified as a Republican in college.

[radical noodle]

189. Yes, in her first year

Not exactly what anyone should consider after her long years of being a solid Democrat. Why did you even bring it up?

[AtomicKitten]

192. I didn't bring it up ... I responded.

[radical noodle]

193. As was I

Hillary worked for decades for the rights of African Americans and women. Sanders not so much.

[AtomicKitten]

194. The reality is quite the opposite.

Enough said.

[radical noodle]

196. Not really eom

[Hekate]

45. Oh deary deary me, the Goldwater Girl thing again. J'accuse! Oh, to be a 16 y.o. in high school!

She also fell under the influence of social-justice activist Methodists in high school, went off to college, and by the time she registered to vote at age 21, was a lifelong Democrat.

Sanders was a full-grown man when Hillary was in high school. There is a world of difference.

[Cha]

57. OH NO.. Not the Goldwater Girl.. LMAO

[George II]

149. He was in this crowd:

[George II]

171. This discussion is about Sanders. Surely you're not trying to re-fight the primaries, are you?

But since you bring it up, note your excerpt points out that she was in the NINTH GRADE. Plus, Goldwater's book was published in 1960 when she was only 13. Also, in 1964 Hillary Clinton was only 17 years old.

Again, why are you bringing this up here?

[betsuni]

178. No minds will be changed here, but I heard that Hillary was a teenaged werewolf.

[George II]

180. She also stuck gum under her desk and smoked in the little girls' room.

[Demsrule86]

205. False comparison...Hillary is not involved and one protest in Chicago does not a civil rights

activist make...and anyway, it is irrelevant...he can't escape the identity politics snafu. That is what I object to not that he didn't march with KIng.

[TexasTowelie]

18. I marched against the US policy towards the Sandinistas in Austin.

It was easy to find me since I was the palest white guy out there with a group of mostly Hispanics. I never claimed to be a social justice activist afterwards though.

[EffieBlack]

22. :-)

[Cha]

26. I think it's worthwhile to listen to what this Black Woman in Mississippi feels about this..

"This town hall isn't special; they are taking the usual Bernie town hall and putting Martin Luther King's name on it. It's glaringly obvious, offensive and frankly it is just gross."

Mahalo, Effie

[EffieBlack]

28. Mahalo, Cha

[Cha]

30. Oh dear.. BS in Jackson, Mississippi dissing the Demcratic Party..

Link to tweet

I was wondering if he'd be doing this..

[PaulX2]

38. Ask Robert Reich

It isn't Bernie.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

Bernie's message is 100% right. Economic justice is what we need. Giving poor people a better chance at success overwhelmingly helps POC because the number/percentage of poor who are minorities is waaaaay to large.

Bernie's message about economic unfairness is also a Pro-POC message. Just too many people were too blind with the idea of electing the first woman to the White House to admit it.

Too late now.

Bernie will keep fighting for the poor, and disappointed people will keep attacking him.

And I, and millions will defend him, because we don't think our country should be ran by Oligarchs.

[EffieBlack]

44. More whitesplaining

Robert Reich says that Bernie’s “pro-POC” message was missed because we were too excited about having a female president.

And you think Reich’s “black people are too blind and ignorant to understand what’s good for them” coaim helps the “Bernie’s not dissing black people” argument how?

Wow.

[Cha]

56. Shame on Robert Reich.. insulting

our intelligence like that.

[EffieBlack]

60. Its pretty stunning

Kind of like “It’s a shame that John Lewis is a sellout for not endorsing Bernie.”

[Cha]

64. It's hard to even wrap my head around

it.. but there it is.. posted with those words.

I can't even say what I really feel about that.. just know that it's not very nice.

[EffieBlack]

68. Posted as proof that Bernie is great on civil rights and blacks people are wrong if we dont agree

Cluelessness, whitesplaining, ignorance and white privilege all wrapped neatly into one post

[David__77]

52. Anti-Semitism is racism.

Sanders’ had relatives wiped out by this racism.

I personally find this worth noting!

[Gothmog]

130. You got to be kidding-I am Jewish-do you I have your permission to not like Sanders?

Sanders is really not popular at my congregation and I am not alone is not having any respect for Sanders. I still remember the gripes that I heard during the breaks for High Holy Day services about sanders speaking to Jerry Falwell's school on a High Holy Day a couple of years ago. Some of the active Democrats in the congregation were really pissed at Sanders for going to Liberty University on a High Holy Day. BTW, Jerry Falwell is not that popular in my congregation.

I was a delegate to the National Convention. I remember a sanders supporter wearing a cross yelling at delegates going into one of the Jewish caucus meetings that we were bad Jews for not supporting sanders. It was a really strange experience. My daughter saw this same guy doing this at another Jewish caucus event. BTW 80+% of the Jewish delegates to the national convention did not support sanders. Are these Jewish delegates all guilty of anti-semitism?

Implying that any attacks on Sanders are based on anti-semitism is really dumb. You have made this baseless claim on other threads.

[David__77]

139. Some people do not think anti-Semitism is racism.

Some people think Jewish people are permeated by “whiteness” and are not subject to racism and in fact benefit from white supremacy.

I disagree with that.

I understand that many disagree with Sanders and come from different perspectives.

[Gothmog]

150. You keep making this rather bogus claim that has no basis in reality

I understand anti-semitism. My son was called the K word at a scouting event coming out of the Jewish Committee on Scouting event. I have three partners who are on the board of our chapter of the ADL. We had to deal with the sole Jewish family in Santa Fe Texas (which is a sundown town-look this term up) because they were accused of being the John Doe plaintiffs in a school prayer case that went to the SCOTUS. The Santa Fe case is still good law of school prayer. The actual plaintiffs in that case were three Catholic families but that did not stop the local idiots from forcing that family to move. One of my good friend's child was targeted by a school sanctioned club that was convinced that they could hasten the "second" coming if they converted by friend's daughter. The teacher in charge of the club was not happy when the ADL legal team visited the school. Go look up the town of Vidor. The town of Pasadena. Texas used to have a KKK bookstore that I saw when I was in college. I have seen anti-semitism and it has nothing to do with white supremacy.

Jews believe in and have fought for racial justice. Jews understand the fight for racial justice and supported MLK and the Freedom Riders. I and most other Jewish voters do not agree with Sanders on this issue. I have been fortunate to hear Congressman John Lewis tell his "preaching to chickens" story four times. I was at the National Convention when Sanders delegates booed him. My whip had told me about this demonstration 15 minutes before it occurred and I was later told that Sanders was told about this planned event and refused to stop it. I still remember the JPR posters applauding this event https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/hey-john-lewis-karmas-a-mf-aint-it/

Sanders lost the Jewish vote for many reasons. You may want to look at this article to see why Sanders lost the Jewish vote https://www.jta.org/2015/09/16/news-opinion/the-telegraph/bernie-sanders-gives-rosh-hashanah-speech-at-evangelical-university During the breaks on Rosh Hashanah there was some real anger by members of my congregation towards Sanders.

Are the majority of Jews who voted against Sanders anti-semites in your strange world? Attacking good democrats who disagree with Sanders and calling these good democrats names is dumb. Again 80+% of the Jewish delegates to the national convention did not support sanders and were called bad Jews by a Sanders supporters who was clearly not Jewish (he was wearing an large cross on the front of his shirt). Hint, that cross was a hint as to how he and many of his fellow sanders supporters felt about my Jewish delegates.

You have made this same attack on other threads. Disagreeing with Sanders is not being anti-semitic. Please stop making this bogus attack.

[George II]

161. Seems that if one criticizes Sanders it's not because we disagree with his policy positions....

....or his attacks on the Democratic Party or any of the other things he's been criticized for, it's because he's Jewish. I know that has been said about me even though it's obvious that it's not true.

It's like you point out, people think if we don't support him 110% we don't understand anti-semitism and we're anti-semitic.

Funny thing, when he ran for Senator I campaigned vigorously for Richard Blumenthal. Also, years ago when I was still in NYC I worked hard for Ed Koch when he was running for Mayor. I guess those were due to my latent anti-semitism.

Although not Jewish myself, my Godparents (who had relatives lost in the Holocaust) were Jewish. But we don't understand it, right?

[Gothmog]

174. Anti-semitism is real and has taken off under trump

Making bogus claims and attacks helps no one.

I still can not get the picture of a sanders supporter standing outside the Jewish Caucus at the National Convention proudly displaying is large cross while calling me an anti-semite for not supporting Sanders. This idiot made sure that we saw his cross and it was clear that he was scared to come into the caucus room because he might catch something.

I am Jewish and I find these attacks to be dumb and ineffective. The above poser has made this same attack on other threads

[David__77]

173. I said no such things.

Those are your words, not mine.

[Gothmog]

177. Please stop making these bogus and rather dumb attacks

You have made the same bogus attack on another thread. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10459995 Accusing persons who disagree with sanders of being anti-semites is dumb and not effective

[David__77]

179. It was someone else who said "How DARE a black woman speak ill of Saint Bernie."

I made so such accusation of anti-Semitism.

I totally get that many people may disagree with Sanders and not be anti-Semitic. I personally don't think he was such a great candidate.

[Gothmog]

199. Are You kidding?

Have you heard of the concept of sarcasm? You do know that Jews do not have saints? The fact that you think that Jews have saints is sad.

Please stop accusing anyone who disagrees with Sanders of being anti-semitic. Actual Jews who are dealing with anti-Semites in the real world find these attacks to be offensive.

[David__77]

207. Jewish people are dealing with anti-Semites in the world.

Agreed!

[Gothmog]

212. Yes we are

In addition, the Jewish people are also fighting for racial justice and against hatred. the number of anti-semetic incidents have increased greatly following trump's election http://www.newsweek.com/jews-racism-trump-antisemitism-charlottesville-attacks-jewish-700398

Attacks against Jews have become much more frequent since August, when a group of white supremacists took to the streets of Charlottesville, Virginia, chanting “Jews will not replace us,” a new report shows.

The number of anti-Semitic incidents increased throughout 2017, but the biggest jump was right after Charlottesville, when the number of attacks increased by 182 percent, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

Overall, there were 1,299 anti-Semitic incidents across the United States during the first nine months of 2017, including physical assaults, vandalism, and attacks on Jewish institutions, the data revealed. That is a higher number than took place in all of 2016, and represents a 67 percent increase from the same period the year before.

The rise of white supremacy in Donald Trump’s America is turning Jews into targets, Jewish leaders say.

I am good friends with a number of Muslim precinct chairs in my county. The hatred against Muslims is scary.

African Americans and Jews have historically worked together to fight racism and acts of hatred. Making baseless charges against African American because this key segment of the Democratic Party is not supporting sanders is a dumb move.

Please stop making these attacks

[David__77]

214. Thank you.

Thank you for posting that information from Newsweek.

Opposition to Sanders does not equal anti-Semitism. There are lots of valid reasons to disagree with Sanders.

[George II]

153. Are you introducing this into the discussion because Sanders is Jewish?

[mcar]

133. Which has what to do with this OP?

[Gothmog]

135. Nothing

Anyone who attacks Sanders is automatically an anti-semite. The trouble is that this silly claim does not work on majority of Jewish Democratic voters who rejected Sanders

[mcar]

138. It makes no sense, Gothmog

If there are legitimate anti semitic posts on this board, let's point them out, alert them and get them gone. This just feels like a distraction to me.

[Gothmog]

156. Agreed

There are three chapters of the KKK operating in my area. Anti-semitism is real. I have Muslim friends who are being attacked by these idiots. There is real hatred against Jews and Muslims out there. Bogus attacks making bogus claims distract from the real issues

[George II]

143. But what does that have to do with the subject of this discussion?

[Gothmog]

158. It is a way to distract from the real issues

[bettyellen]

195. I love how you reduce HRC to just a white woman. All that vagina voter crap really backfired.

And it’s why Sanders and Biden are bith seen as dusty old non-starters.
Women are sooo sick of hearing this shit, especially since we’re suffering now largely because of unchecked sexism.

[David__77]

219. I think that is incorrect.

I believe people had many reasons for voting for Clinton in both the primary and general election. What you said is similar to saying that people voted for Obama because they were “blinded by the idea” of having the first black president. I disagree with either assertion.

[Eliot Rosewater]

221. You are calling the Clinton's oligarchs, that is it, I have had ENOUGH

What in the FUCK is going on

[Bluepinky]

40. Oh good, another thread that criticizes Bernie.

Bernie is part of the progressive Democratic movement, get over it. He’s well liked by a lot of progressives. Nobody speaks about wealth inequality as well as Bernie does. If you don’t like him, fine. But a lot of us do like him.

[Cha]

43. You "get over it".. A Black Woman in Jackson, Mississippi is

giving her opinion on BS taking over MLK's Anniversary.

And, sure enough he was down there to divide and bash the Democratic Party.. nothing about trump and his fascist takeover.

Link to tweet

[EffieBlack]

46. Wow

I wonder if Mayor Lumumba said, “Oh, shit” out loud or under his breath when he heard that ...

[Cha]

49. I hope so.. Very patronizing..

Link to tweet

I'm pissed.

[Eliot Rosewater]

222. And he and they are doubling down. I now fully expect an all out attack on the D party

I wont be able to talk about it though.

[Cha]

224. Of course he and they are.. no

capacity to learn from it.

[EffieBlack]

48. And why is he at a MLK commemoration talking about Democratic partys business model anyway?

And let’s not even start on his dismissing the first black President as a “charismatic individual” part.

And apparently, he forgot that, thanks to Howard Dean’s “business model,” Dems took back the House and Senate 12 years ago.

And he’s supposed to be the “outreach” guy?

[Cha]

50. I know.. this being the whole point of your OP.

She has an excellent point which too many are missing in their rush to defend.

It's about Martin Luther King's Anniversary of his passing.. not BS' time to bash the Democratic Party.

[EffieBlack]

51. Yup.

All roads lead right back to Bernie.

[Cha]

54. Smh.. he thought the best day to go after Obama

is on MLK’s assasination anniversary.

Unreal.

[melman]

58. He did no such thing

and you know it.

[Cha]

63. You obviously have no clue..

Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:45 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

[EffieBlack]

69. Saying on this day of all days that electing a black president to two terms was a failure

Really?

[Cha]

71. It's unreal and untrue..

And, from the Twitter feeds so many are not feeling it.. like the woman's commentary in your OP, Effie, only not as nice.

I went back to see who wrote it but a notice keeps popping up on my screen that covers her opinion.

[TexasTowelie]

78. Reading comprehension issues or illiteracy?

[betsuni]

79. Oh, melman.

[betsuni]

70. Thank you for posting this. Extremely offensive.

[Cha]

73. There's more.. So very patronizing and going negative instead of talking about Accomplishments.

Link to tweet

On the Anniversary of MLK's assassination.. he thought that was the best day to go after President Obama.

This is what President Obama was doing..

Barack Obama, Al Sharpton & More Recognize 50th Anniversary of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Death

http://www.ebony.com/news-views/obama-al-sharpton-anniversary-martin-luther-king

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

75. President Obama will go on to do great things.

The point of public service, to help people. Democrats know this.

[Cha]

77. Oh yes! President Obama's legacy and excellent works will go on and on no matter who tries to drag

him down..

[David__77]

53. On Bernie Sanders Underground, all roads lead to Sanders.

...

[TexasTowelie]

80. Hmmm...

[SidDithers]

157. This used to be Bernie Sanders Underground...

many of us are glad that it no longer is.

Sid

[TexasTowelie]

76. Oh great, another post saying the Bernie can't be held up for criticism

even though he is an avowed independent, but there have been plenty of threads criticizing leaders that have been members of the Democratic Party their entire lives.

No other politician is immune from criticism on DU so why should Bernie be treated differently? As much as you may be tired of reading threads that bash Bernie, I am tired of the the chorus of nearly identical posts implying that those that disagree with him are not allowed to express their opinions or that they will be considered Bernie bashers.

When I registered for DU in 2011 I never a sign indicating that it was a one way street or that the site would become Independent Underground. To top it off, I was called a Libertarian yesterday because I don't support a nanny-state government involved in every aspect of citizens' lives from birth to the grave. Insults like that accomplish nothing to persuade me to vote for Bernie in 2020. Maybe the Bernie supporters should rethink that strategy?

[Maeve]

81. There seems to be some misunderstanding about this thread

If it was hidden, it has been restored

[EffieBlack]

85. Yes, it was hidden a couple of days ago, but restored a few minutes ago.

[Cha]

97. ..

as it should be!

[yardwork]

82. I'm glad that the unjustifiable hide was overturned!

[Oneironaut]

83. Well probably still be fighting over Bernie in 2050.

Meanwhile, Trump is destroying our Republic and creating migrant concentration camps.

Good lord - I wish our party would stop eating it’s own.

[EffieBlack]

86. So, now criticizing Bernie Sanders is "eating our own?"

Is he the only politician immune from questions or criticism?

[Oneironaut]

88. No, but some unity in our party is needed.

If our party members devote all their energy to slinging mud at and destroying each other, who wins?

If we’re divided, then we become weak.

[EffieBlack]

89. I'm not devoting all of my energy to raising questions about Bernie Sanders

But I think the questions are important to the future of the party and if he can't handle them, a presidential campaign and certainly the presidency would kick his ass.

[Oneironaut]

216. My comment was more directed to the constant tit-for-tat Bernie divisiveness.

Honestly, I wish Bernie would get out of the national spotlight.

[mcar]

100. I look forward to seeing the same comment

In the next OPs with "constructive criticism" of Pelosi, Feinstein, Harris, Booker, etc.

[EffieBlack]

108. Boom.

[sheshe2]

116. Perhaps you should address that to our Outreach Chairman.

He, the outreach chairman, said the Democratic Party or "model" is a failure. I call that divisive.

[Demsrule86]

119. Then Sen. Sanders shouldn't go down to Mississippi and say the stuff he said about Democrats and

President Obama. Why do non-Sanders supporters have to keep silent for unity while he goes Criticizes Democrats and the best president of my lifetime.

[George II]

123. That's the point, it's OUR party, no one else's.

[Demsrule86]

169. Yep, how dare he attack Pres. Obama who is the best president of my lifetime.

[George II]

172. Me too, and I'll bet I've lived during more Presidencies than you (haha!)

Although I don't remember him, my first President was Harry Truman.

Then there was:

Eisenhower
Kennedy
Johnson
Nixon
Ford
Carter
Reagan
Bush
Clinton
bush
Obama

It's not just his recency, Obama was the best President of my lifetime.

[Adrahil]

91. Bernie is not a Democrat....

That's part of the problem.

[JCanete]

93. wow...somebody reads the challenges? I've never even gotten a response. I'm glad you got the hide

revoked, but that said, why does this need to be in 2 different threads? Something I'm missing?

[EffieBlack]

94. There weren't two different threads at first

I started a thread, but then it was hidden two days ago and yesterday, someone started a thread on the same topic. Until now, there was only one thread at a time ...

[JCanete]

96. ah, I see. makes sense! nt

[Demsrule86]

120. This thread was gone when the other one posted.

[TexasTowelie]

125. I suggest that you contact the administrators

if you have an issue with forum moderation. They apparently don't have an issue being discussed in two separate GD threads.

[George II]

197. This is an open forum/site. I know I don't question what anyone else posts and....

...I believe the OP explained in her other post why this is posted twice. That's not unprecedented.

What's the big deal?

[JCanete]

198. nothing is the big deal, it wsas just a question, and then, way before like 3 of these responses

I accepted Effie's explanation. I am and was glad that the thread got reinstated, as I said. I hate the alert feature, in almost every case.

[SidDithers]

95. DU rec...

glad this was unhidden.



Sid

[mcar]

98. K&R!

Welcome back!

[NurseJackie]

99. Thank you for posting this... glad to see you victorious!

[tavernier]

101. And now a word from your sponsor:

DU encourages its members to vote for Democrats in the upcoming November election. Please educate and register as many voters as you can between now and then.

GOTV!!

[NurseJackie]

103. A good time to register voters and other GOTV efforts is at rallies.

More politicians should do that. If half as much effort was spent with GOTV and registration activities as is typically spent on fundraising during public events, we'd be in a much better position.

[tavernier]

110. Good point!

Perhaps all these politicians need a refresher course in Elections 101.

[Billy Jingo]

104. More Sanders knee capping

They really want to take him down.

[EffieBlack]

109. Or maybe they just don't agree with him

And don't believe that he should be any more immune from criticism or scrutiny than any other politician.

[Billy Jingo]

115. "Can't come to the cookout" isn't reasonable criticism

It is not disagreement with policy positions or a particular political will. It is tribal signaling.

Also, "invited to the cookout" is a bit played out.

[EffieBlack]

118. The fact that YOU don't like how the criticism is framed doesn't mean its unreasonable

[Billy Jingo]

140. Yes, I understand "feelings" based criticism

Your subjective response is valid. I am not dismissing your feelings. I hear you.

[George II]

182. That's how the author put it. "Tribal signaling"? Who is the tribe, and what is the signal?

[lapucelle]

217. "Tribal signaling"? What does that even mean? What tribe are you talking about? N/T

[ehrnst]

117. Who is "they?" (nt)

[Demsrule86]

122. No, this and other threads is a response to criticism of the party and President Obama.

They are always in response to some comment made by Sen. Sanders.

[Billy Jingo]

151. He did not criticize President Obama

Just the opposite.

Anyone telling you otherwise is lying to to you. Including yourself.

[Gothmog]

200. You are wrong

[George II]

124. Did you see/hear what he said about the Democratic Party and President Obama?

[Billy Jingo]

142. Yes

He was complimentary of President Obama and critical of the Democratic embrace of neoliberalism.

[George II]

144. That was not "complimentary", he said that Obama was charismatic, then went on with a huge....

....."BUT". As one observer at the event noted, he referred to Obama as "a 'charismatic individual'—not even leader!", and also "an ‘extraordinary candidate’—not even president!"

He went on to all but blame Obama for the loss of legislative seats around the country.

That most certainly wasn't "complimentary".

[Billy Jingo]

148. Yeah. Putting words in his mouth

Is a deliberate act.

[George II]

165. In what way?

[AtomicKitten]

145. Exactly. The 50/50 AA/white audience gave him a standing ovation before & after he spoke. ..

Last edited Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:34 PM - Edit history (2)

The faux outrage is manufactured in a nonstop effort to marginalize him.

Edited to recalibrate the estimation per sources below.

[betsuni]

147. Wrong. As reported in the Jackson Free Press the audience was predominantly white.

"Thailia Mara Hall in downtown Jackson hosted the predominantly white audience."

[AtomicKitten]

155. Not according to witness observation.

https://mobile.twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/981877560375173122

From the audience, I watched the crowd of a 85% black city give Bernie Sanders a standing ovation both before & after his remarks. The crowd responded positively to Sander's point that the Democratic party has failed to retain seats - even w/ a leader as charismatic as Obama.

It was about 50/50. I was sitting next to a black 20 something and his South Asian friend/partner. In front of me was a 40ish year old white man with his wife and two small kids. To my left was a black man -- a member of Sen Sanders travel team, half of whom (2/4) were black.

Edited to add:

From the NY Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/us/politics/bernie-sanders-obama-mississippi.html

... the audience skewed young and almost evenly divided between blacks and whites.

[betsuni]

159. I'm supposed to believe a guy who says 85% then changes it to 50% who is clearly

a Bernie supporter over a journalist for a city paper?

[sheshe2]

163. :)

I will take the city paper for $200 Alec.

[AtomicKitten]

164. How about the NY Times ???

See my edit above.

[George II]

168. Did the Times have a reporter there, or were they relying on anecdotal observations?

[lapucelle]

220. I think it means that although only 15% of the city population is white,

whites comprised 50% of the audience at the event.

[sheshe2]

162. So an anonomousy person on twitter is to be believed...

Over a reporter from the Jackson Free Press?

Link to tweet

?s=20

Sorry. No.

[George II]

166. There were four people on that stage, three were Black. Of course they weren't applauding them.

[lapucelle]

215. Who is "they"? N/T

[betsuni]

121. K&R

[LexVegas]

126. Rec!

[sheshe2]

128. Kick

[sheshe2]

129. Welcome Back

[Gothmog]

137. K&R

[saidsimplesimon]

181. Effie

You are welcome to view my comments related to this topic, just search by user name, I think that's how it works here on DU. I could be mistaken.

I adore Senator Sanders for this message. A run for President is not in the cards. imo

[lovemydogs]

201. One of those Bernie is the enemy, not Trump and rethugs.

Let's spend all our time, for years and years, nursing grudges and resentments against Sanders becausfige he dared to run against Hillary and forget about all the damage and danger the republicans and Trump are doing.
Forget about unifying the party against the coming elections against republicans because unending resentment against an ally is more productive!
Forget about the mid terms being a big blue wave.
About modernizing the party
About figuring out who we are after Clintonism and crafting new messages for today's public and society.
About coming together to keep our country from turning into Russia
Rebuilding the damage done by Trump and his cronies.
No, we must keep looking backwards and keep nursing our grudges.

[EffieBlack]

211. Just consider it to be constructive criticism from an ally

because we want him to do better.

Kind of like when Bernie criticized the Democratic Party because he says he wants us to do better.

[R B Garr]

223. KnR!