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lunatica

(53,410 posts)
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:43 PM Apr 2018

I havent spoken to my Born Again sister in 10 years

I’m willing to bet she’s a Deplorable now so I’m fine with it.

The last time we talked she was a Born Again Christian and we argued about God and, to her, his hatred of The Gay. She claimed god is a jealous god who demands obedience and fealty and that he has commanded that she hate Gays. I asked her why god would hate what he created with his supposed unconditional and boundless love. She accused me of trying to brainwash her and order her on what to believe. I recognized the religious brainwashing and ended the call as a lost cause.

She wrote me a letter describing in great detail the punishment I was going to get in eternal hell. Three pages of it! I'm pretty sure she enjoyed every imagined gory detail of it.

I did get one valuable thing out of it though. Religious zealots, of which we have plenty, may talk of god’s Great love but what they believe in is his unconditional hatred of those he chooses to hate and his jealousy of their absolute fealty and in his wrath if he’s disobeyed.

They follow Trump with this fealty because he is just like their god. Mean, petty, vindictive, and demanding they hand him their “loyalty” and obedience. All they need is for their preachers to tell them what God demands they do. Trump is something they understand intimately. A perfect reflection of the God they worship.

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I havent spoken to my Born Again sister in 10 years (Original Post) lunatica Apr 2018 OP
Yikes....three pages? awesomerwb1 Apr 2018 #1
The ways of burning in hell are only limited by your imagination lunatica Apr 2018 #15
Well, I have never put too much thought (any) awesomerwb1 Apr 2018 #24
It has greatly saddened me what Upthevibe Apr 2018 #84
I was raised Presbyterian but the church I went to is now an Evangelical Presbyterian csziggy Apr 2018 #105
With all respect, your sister sounds demented! n/t RKP5637 Apr 2018 #2
This!! dameatball Apr 2018 #4
Yep lunatica Apr 2018 #16
demented/converted... same same in this case keithbvadu2 Apr 2018 #70
Yep! n/t RKP5637 Apr 2018 #74
I'm so sorry. irisblue Apr 2018 #3
Well DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #5
That's the nice part about making him up... Baconator Apr 2018 #10
" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #17
I bet youre not a Born Again Christian are you? lunatica Apr 2018 #11
I apologize for your sister. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #20
Damn, if I were an all-powerful Creator SCantiGOP Apr 2018 #32
It's amazing how adequately it describes him. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #37
19 describes the Orange Disaster to a T treestar Apr 2018 #85
And it's written in English!!! LanternWaste Apr 2018 #87
He literally checks every box. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #88
Describes Trump to a T! workinclasszero Apr 2018 #102
He literally checks every box. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #103
Bone Spurs still has his war card to play workinclasszero Apr 2018 #104
With all due respect DSB angrychair Apr 2018 #79
Thank you for that Maeve Apr 2018 #106
My faith is one of love, empathy, and understanding. It is not one of condemnation. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2018 #107
Ditto that. n/t Dem_in_Nebr. Apr 2018 #110
Gee, I am so sorry. Laffy Kat Apr 2018 #6
We were really close growing up lunatica Apr 2018 #18
She has been kidnapped trixie2 Apr 2018 #48
Yes, just try to remember that, it's the fear. Laffy Kat Apr 2018 #108
Why don't you invite her out to the closest RED LOBSTER to discuss her philosophy? brooklynite Apr 2018 #7
I get it :) nt phylny Apr 2018 #29
? lunatica Apr 2018 #38
Shrimp & Shellfish are prohibited to orthodox Jews. irisblue Apr 2018 #45
More specifically, they're apparently prohibited to any "true" Christian brooklynite Apr 2018 #53
Or ask her why she wears clothes that are from blended materials? geardaddy Apr 2018 #44
ONE of the reasons I decided I could not 'believe,' elleng Apr 2018 #8
funny how their gods always hate the same things they do rurallib Apr 2018 #9
I always figured that anybody who could come up with, and revel in, the concept of eternal damnation niyad Apr 2018 #12
Especially when youre not sure what you did wrong lunatica Apr 2018 #22
I am so sorry. dawg Apr 2018 #13
I used to have a bumper sticker that read, "Born okay the first time" over an image of Stonehenge. niyad Apr 2018 #14
During the Black Plague in the 14th century thbobby Apr 2018 #19
yeah, but trump voters want to flog others, not themselves nt shanny Apr 2018 #64
They burned Jews and heretics. Mariana Apr 2018 #69
The religion of a vengeful, patriarchal deity is going to attract punishment fetishists. Orsino Apr 2018 #21
Does sound like there's a problem zipplewrath Apr 2018 #23
Shes a full blown Manic Depressive lunatica Apr 2018 #33
That was my thought also - underlying condition that was manifested later in life erronis Apr 2018 #77
Cults isolate members from their "unbelieving" family members and friends. Mariana Apr 2018 #25
AMWAY - isolates keithbvadu2 Apr 2018 #75
I go with the Hawkeye response gratuitous Apr 2018 #26
Poison Ivy is from Batman. You are referring to Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson). earthshine Apr 2018 #89
You and I remember the movie very differently gratuitous Apr 2018 #91
You got your DC in my Marvel!!! Revanchist Apr 2018 #97
Yeah, my wife has some relatives like that HopeAgain Apr 2018 #27
Puts another slant on the belief lunatica Apr 2018 #30
Sorry about your sister. Nt NCTraveler Apr 2018 #28
As usual, George Carlin summed it up well: SCantiGOP Apr 2018 #31
So sad... Marty Marzipan Apr 2018 #34
A combination of hate-filled religion and Fox News. Initech Apr 2018 #50
Many Protestants/Evangelicals consider Catholics a cult... BIGLY cult keithbvadu2 Apr 2018 #78
Fox News is kind of like the Catholic church when you think about it. Initech Apr 2018 #86
Fox has the super short skirt thigh couch. keithbvadu2 Apr 2018 #96
I'm sorry to hear that. sandensea Apr 2018 #35
Sounds like you've got a good handle on it. Paladin Apr 2018 #36
My life rule is lunatica Apr 2018 #40
I have acquaintances and relatives who have done the same. It's a shame. (nt) Paladin Apr 2018 #68
Religion. The original and still most effective brainwash. kairos12 Apr 2018 #39
Amen to that! lunatica Apr 2018 #42
And if Im not mistaken, Christianity is the only major religion where the stakes are all or nothing VOX Apr 2018 #95
Very insightful post. Pepsidog Apr 2018 #41
Whenever someone asks me if I'm born again, I tell them... geardaddy Apr 2018 #43
being an atheist... Javaman Apr 2018 #46
So sorry that she totally missed the entire idea of following Christ and his efhmc Apr 2018 #47
I gotta agree. Zealots suck. Religion, political, financial... LanternWaste Apr 2018 #49
The all knowing all seeing demands praise but killed his kid for us and hates the gays that he made? NightWatcher Apr 2018 #51
Interesting theory zentrum Apr 2018 #52
I am so very sorry lunatica Skittles Apr 2018 #54
I agree with you lunatica Apr 2018 #65
Say gilligan Apr 2018 #55
My older sisters DUgosh Apr 2018 #56
Sorry to hear hurl Apr 2018 #57
taint it funny these born agains ignore jesus to embrace mainly the old testament. pansypoo53219 Apr 2018 #58
You just put into words what I do whenever my Evangelical sister starts her crap with me. pazzyanne Apr 2018 #72
They always forget the part about love world wide wally Apr 2018 #59
Strange how there is no mention of Hell in the OT. LiberalFighter Apr 2018 #60
In roughly the same boat woundedkarma Apr 2018 #61
I have some pretty conservative cousins CanonRay Apr 2018 #62
It's possible to stage an intervention for your sister FakeNoose Apr 2018 #63
Unfortunately that kind of emotional dependency lunatica Apr 2018 #66
Ick MosheFeingold Apr 2018 #67
My sympathy for the loss of your sister WestMichRad Apr 2018 #71
I once knew a person that I got along with quite well, oddly enough. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2018 #73
It's much easier to keep converts radical noodle Apr 2018 #76
If you talk to her whip this out: EX500rider Apr 2018 #80
The newly converted often have to demonize the old ways/others to rationalize their change. keithbvadu2 Apr 2018 #81
I have a couple of zealots in my family TNLib Apr 2018 #82
Reminds me of the quote from a comedian - I'm not sure who. trackfan Apr 2018 #83
LOL lunatica Apr 2018 #98
When hear soneone say they are born again I know they are still the same a$$holes kimbutgar Apr 2018 #90
There's a born again sucker every minute. yortsed snacilbuper Apr 2018 #92
She needs for you to believe. It angers her because you don't, but the anger comes from deep within. earthshine Apr 2018 #93
So, in essence she can legitimize her anger lunatica Apr 2018 #99
It's basic psychology. If someone gets so angry at what you say ... earthshine Apr 2018 #101
My father went through a brief phase like that near the end of his life. Vinca Apr 2018 #94
Confirming once again -- Man created God in his own image. nt eppur_se_muova Apr 2018 #100
My brother Rick is like that TexasBushwhacker Apr 2018 #109
This is very similar to my sister who lives in another state lunatica Apr 2018 #112
Ah yes. The inheritance TexasBushwhacker Apr 2018 #120
One thing .... LakeArenal Apr 2018 #111
My what a happy post. pangaia Apr 2018 #113
I know! lunatica Apr 2018 #114
Eh, just listen to Mozart instead. pangaia Apr 2018 #116
Paramahansa Yogananda, One of India's Greatest Masters of Yoga panfluteman Apr 2018 #115
Ive read his autobiography lunatica Apr 2018 #119
I am straight. You asked the very same question that I ask religious people concerning LGBTQ Blue_true Apr 2018 #117
Maybe they rush to get out of the way lunatica Apr 2018 #118

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
15. The ways of burning in hell are only limited by your imagination
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:03 PM
Apr 2018

Each one is more awesome than the last! God may hate religious variety, but obviously loves variety in his punishments.

We should be thankful he doesn’t have a twitter account!

awesomerwb1

(4,268 posts)
24. Well, I have never put too much thought (any)
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:16 PM
Apr 2018

into burning in hell. But now that you mention it....

Anyways, God -does- have a Twitter account.

Upthevibe

(8,072 posts)
84. It has greatly saddened me what
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:20 PM
Apr 2018

has happened regarding Christianity. I was raised as a Presbyterian and it was NOT like this. Our Minister was a wonderful man whose messages (sermons) resonated with me and brought much comfort. It's absolutely horrifying what has happened. I blame this almost completely on politics and the Religious Right. As an adult, I'm very into "spirituality" but not religion. The "Christ Consciousness" isn't being practiced by many (or probably most) of these so-called Evangelicals." It's sickening. I'm sorry you've had to go through this.

csziggy

(34,138 posts)
105. I was raised Presbyterian but the church I went to is now an Evangelical Presbyterian
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 07:21 PM
Apr 2018

I have not real idea what their tenets are but it is not the same as when I was a kid. It broke my Dad's heart since he had attended that church since he was a tot. Dad still contributed to the church but he stopped going. Mom felt so strongly about it, when Dad died she refused to have his service in the church - it was held at the funeral home instead.

And here's the thing - even though over the decades (since 1925) my family donated tens of thousands of dollars to that church, no one from it visited Dad during his final years. Mom has not gotten a single visit from anyone connected to that church in the five years since Dad died even though she is still contributing money to them. Mom even compiled and published the history of that church years ago, but no one associated with it has given her a moment of time.

Even if they didn't feel any Christian charity, they should at least feel some obligation to members who have given them so much lucre over all those years!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,714 posts)
5. Well
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:52 PM
Apr 2018

1) Hell is just separation from God for all of eternity.
2) The furnace theory of Hell is silly
3) God or at least my God doesn't instruct me to hate anybody.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,714 posts)
20. I apologize for your sister.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:11 PM
Apr 2018

This is what God hates:

There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Proverbs 6 16-19&version




Sounds more like Trump than any gay person I know.
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
87. And it's written in English!!!
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:34 PM
Apr 2018

And it's written in English, so no one overaly concerned with foreign languages will have any problems translating it.

angrychair

(8,733 posts)
79. With all due respect DSB
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:39 PM
Apr 2018

I enjoy reading your input and respect your opinions but religion, any religion, encapsulates everything that is wrong with the world and all of humanity, now and throughout human history.

Think about how much easier things would be today in America without religious idiots screwing things up. We would be so much further ahead, socially and intellectually, than we are now. Racism, sexual bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny and child abuse all have deep roots in religion.

As much as you likely ascribe yourself to the “kinder, gentler god” that is simply branding and not who has their fingers on the economic, social and intellectual triggers, ready to blow themselves up and destroy it all and bring about the end times for their god here in America.

I always laugh when I hear “at least Christians don’t use bombs like Islamic terrorist” because the truth is they do use figurative weapons of mass destruction that do far more damage and have greater impact than any single act of a bomber.

Religion is the bane and the likely death of all humanity.

Maeve

(42,288 posts)
106. Thank you for that
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 07:29 PM
Apr 2018

I was brought up the same way, but lost faith in the way churches are run anymore. If I beleive anything, that is the sort of faith I still hold to.

Laffy Kat

(16,386 posts)
6. Gee, I am so sorry.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:53 PM
Apr 2018

I would be devastated if I had a split with my sis like that. It must be difficult.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
18. We were really close growing up
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:08 PM
Apr 2018

I miss her old self. She was far more loving then than she is as a Born Again.

I think she just full of fear.

trixie2

(905 posts)
48. She has been kidnapped
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:04 PM
Apr 2018

I am not joking. How can anyone with love turn against a family member because an institution says so? How hard must her life be to live in hatred every day. She can't see it now but one day she will and will feel a loss none of us can comprehend.

Laffy Kat

(16,386 posts)
108. Yes, just try to remember that, it's the fear.
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:02 AM
Apr 2018

She is still the same person,she is still your sis.

brooklynite

(94,739 posts)
7. Why don't you invite her out to the closest RED LOBSTER to discuss her philosophy?
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:53 PM
Apr 2018

They're probably having a special on shrimp.

irisblue

(33,034 posts)
45. Shrimp & Shellfish are prohibited to orthodox Jews.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:56 PM
Apr 2018

There a fair number of restrictions, dietary & social in the Old Testament.

brooklynite

(94,739 posts)
53. More specifically, they're apparently prohibited to any "true" Christian
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:11 PM
Apr 2018

...who believes in the "angry god" of the OT,

rurallib

(62,450 posts)
9. funny how their gods always hate the same things they do
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:56 PM
Apr 2018

Decent of her to go into great detail of the punishment you will endure.

It has been so enlightening to see the evangelicals have to twist their "firmly held beliefs" to accommodate this con man. And of course it hasn't only been evangelicals. Every trump supporter must put aside any integrity to support one of the biggest cons in history.

Too bad it is your sister. Maybe at some point she will realize the scam she fell prey to.

niyad

(113,581 posts)
12. I always figured that anybody who could come up with, and revel in, the concept of eternal damnation
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:59 PM
Apr 2018

has to be seriously ill.

and, of course, the eternal damnation for our very brief human lifespans seems more than a bit whacked.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
22. Especially when youre not sure what you did wrong
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:15 PM
Apr 2018

Living in that kind of fear can make you cleave to obedient behavior, just in case you ever piss God off.

dawg

(10,624 posts)
13. I am so sorry.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:01 PM
Apr 2018

I guess most of us have a few people in our families who go off the deep end. I certainly have my share.

For what it's worth, I'm a Christian. I grew up going to a Southern Baptist Church, and I consider myself "born again".

But, in my way of thinking, your sister is not thinking in a Christ-like fashion if she feels compelled to *hate* anyone. Jesus prayed for his murderers even as they were crucifying him.

There is a real spirt of hate in this country, and much of it winds its way through our churches. (I would call it a spirit of anti-Christ, but I don't want to sound like too much of a religious nutball.)

The answer is for us all to love one another, as much as is humanly possible. Some days that is hard.

niyad

(113,581 posts)
14. I used to have a bumper sticker that read, "Born okay the first time" over an image of Stonehenge.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:03 PM
Apr 2018

and then I found this:



thbobby

(1,474 posts)
19. During the Black Plague in the 14th century
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:10 PM
Apr 2018

A movement arose of "flagellates" who went from village to village flogging themselves to prove themselves to god(?). Kind of like trump voters. Willing to suffer and make America suffer to justify stupidity(?), hatred(?), who the hell knows what.

Mariana

(14,861 posts)
69. They burned Jews and heretics.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:20 PM
Apr 2018

They believed God was punishing everyone for tolerating the existence of Jews and heretics living among them, so they murdered them. Today, many Fundamentalist Christians believe God will similarly punish everyone because we've tolerated the existence of the homosexuals, Muslims, atheists, etc. etc. etc.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
21. The religion of a vengeful, patriarchal deity is going to attract punishment fetishists.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:13 PM
Apr 2018

Obey-or-die is a simple commandment that appeals to simple minds, and excuses any petty cruelty in which they want to indulge.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
23. Does sound like there's a problem
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:16 PM
Apr 2018

From your brief description, it does sound like there is a health problem of some sort. Some sort of obsessive behavior. Quite honestly though, I've known a few born agains that over a 10 year period get vastly less strident. Passions can temper themselves over time. It's a bit like reformed alcoholics, at first everyone they know is an alcoholic that needs their help. After a while they lose the need to save everyone.

Write your sister a letter. 10 years is a long time.

erronis

(15,339 posts)
77. That was my thought also - underlying condition that was manifested later in life
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:35 PM
Apr 2018

We all go through a lot of changes and some of those changes can trigger reactions that might have not been exposed before. And we all do brain-rewire during our lives. Stress and other environmental factors can cause this. That being said we can all engage in thoughtful activities that actually make us more competent and more aware of our environment.

Unfortunately once someone starts to slip down a slope that limits outside stabilizers the slope becomes more precipitous.

I've known several bi-polar and other friends that really don't have control over how they feel. And when the high or the low hits, who know what might happen.

Mariana

(14,861 posts)
25. Cults isolate members from their "unbelieving" family members and friends.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:17 PM
Apr 2018

That includes just about everyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do. That's just one of the things they do. With Christian cults like your sister's, it doesn't help that the Bible contains material to support many of their views. I'm very sorry.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
26. I go with the Hawkeye response
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:25 PM
Apr 2018

In the first Avengers movie, Hawkeye and Poison Ivy are battling invading aliens intent on taking over Earth. As they get into the thick of battle, Poison Ivy exclaims, "This is just like Budapest all over again!" Hawkeye nocks another arrow into his bow and observes laconically, "You and I remember Budapest very differently."

When I engage with someone whose concept of God is a murderous psychopath who will torture you forever if you don't agree to be his best friend, my response is "You and I read the Bible very differently." The conversation usually ends there.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
89. Poison Ivy is from Batman. You are referring to Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson).
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:55 PM
Apr 2018

Get it straight please!

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
91. You and I remember the movie very differently
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:57 PM
Apr 2018

Which doesn't rule out the possibility that you're not incorrect.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
27. Yeah, my wife has some relatives like that
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:31 PM
Apr 2018

My wife was nothing but an intolerable sinner until they came upon hard times and needed some money.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
30. Puts another slant on the belief
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:35 PM
Apr 2018

that God helps those who help themselves doesn’t it? It’s what they help themselves to that matters.

SCantiGOP

(13,874 posts)
31. As usual, George Carlin summed it up well:
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:35 PM
Apr 2018

(paraphrasing):
God created you and is all loving and all merciful.
But, if you choose the wrong religion or break the wrong rule, he will send you to eternal torment in Hell.
Why? Because he loves you!

Initech

(100,104 posts)
50. A combination of hate-filled religion and Fox News.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:06 PM
Apr 2018

I swear Fox News is creating the world's largest cult, and that's scary.

Initech

(100,104 posts)
86. Fox News is kind of like the Catholic church when you think about it.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:24 PM
Apr 2018

They work in secret. They have a charismatic leader. Their pundits are like the cardinals. Their buildings are huge and elaborate fortresses. The only thing missing is the robes.

Paladin

(28,275 posts)
36. Sounds like you've got a good handle on it.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:41 PM
Apr 2018

The whole unfortunate situation appears to be your sister's doing, something she'll ultimately regret. And I say that as a Christian of the non-Born Again variety who believes God truly does love us, one and all.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
40. My life rule is
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:48 PM
Apr 2018

Live and let live. For some reason she needs these beliefs. I have no hatred of her. Just a lot of regret about the way things have turned out so far. We were close growing up. She was much more Christian then, even without religion.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
95. And if Im not mistaken, Christianity is the only major religion where the stakes are all or nothing
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 05:25 PM
Apr 2018

If you don’t repent (ugh), you go to eternal damnation without ANY chance of redemption at that point — there’s no working your way out of it, or doing your time. You are screwed for ETERNITY.

What kind of god DEMANDS that you love him (of course it’s a DUDE), and if you refuse, he’ll torture you by roasting you forever? Is that truly love?

“Love me or else.” If another person says that to us, we sensibly head for the hills. But an all-knowing, all-seeing deity that is so insecure he forces people to worship and adore him, or he’ll throw you in the furnace?

That kind of “theology” puts god on the level of Hitler— total, unswerving loyalty, or you face execution. Who would want an insane dictator as a deity? Someone with zero self-esteem, or someone so dumb that they’re just along for the ride.

geardaddy

(24,931 posts)
43. Whenever someone asks me if I'm born again, I tell them...
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:49 PM
Apr 2018

"No, I got it right the first time."

Your sister sounds like a nut. So sorry that you have to endure that shit.

Javaman

(62,534 posts)
46. being an atheist...
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:58 PM
Apr 2018

I can only believe that people that act such as your sister, are in desperate need of professional help. Because that kind of behavior comes from some deep seated jealousy or mental disorder.

I hope one day she gets the help she desperately needs.

efhmc

(14,732 posts)
47. So sorry that she totally missed the entire idea of following Christ and his
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:01 PM
Apr 2018

teaching of love and acceptance of all people. Here is what I am reading now: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/372623.Rescuing_the_Bible_from_Fundamentalism. (only because what I was reading on my phone shut down for lack of power and it was available)I find it fascinating in the author's scholarly approach to the history of both new and old testaments. I did not realize that the author had debated Jerry Falwell in the 90's. Going to try to search for those.

Didn't mean to go off on my thing. I find these zealots to be mentally unsound and wish them healing and spiritual health. I hope that you are able to put this in the mental trash basket and not be hurt.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
49. I gotta agree. Zealots suck. Religion, political, financial...
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:06 PM
Apr 2018

I gotta agree. Zealots suck. Religious, political, financial, or national fanatics and radicals proselytizing their dogmatic One True Path to Freedom tend to be bores (at best).

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
51. The all knowing all seeing demands praise but killed his kid for us and hates the gays that he made?
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:07 PM
Apr 2018

So glad I'm a born again atheist.

The supreme being has a lot of the same hang ups that my ignorant bigoted family has. Funny how that works.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
52. Interesting theory
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:11 PM
Apr 2018

…..of why they like Trump and see him as almost magical. Also, I think many of their authoritarian fathers are punitive and vindictive like this.

George Lakoff's theory comes to mind.

Skittles

(153,193 posts)
54. I am so very sorry lunatica
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:11 PM
Apr 2018

it is hard to cut off family members but you did the right thing - stuff like that is not good for YOUR mental health.....so many people think they have to tolerate family because, well, it's family - no, they do NOT.........ditch these kind of people and be around folk who love you for who you are and who truly care

DUgosh

(3,058 posts)
56. My older sisters
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:23 PM
Apr 2018

Joined John Hagees Cornerstone church San Antonio in the mid nineties. Probably spoken less than one hundred words apiece since then. I don’t even miss them anymore.

hurl

(938 posts)
57. Sorry to hear
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:28 PM
Apr 2018

I grew up immersed in similar beliefs, and many of my family members still are not free of them. I think it comes down to the fact that some people have a hard time fathoming an 'us' without a 'them.'

pansypoo53219

(20,997 posts)
58. taint it funny these born agains ignore jesus to embrace mainly the old testament.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:33 PM
Apr 2018

pretty sure jesus didn't mention teh gays. OR ABORTION.

pazzyanne

(6,557 posts)
72. You just put into words what I do whenever my Evangelical sister starts her crap with me.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:29 PM
Apr 2018

She gives me lectures mostly from the Old Testament and Revelations, and I counter with New Testament quotes which really angers her for some reason. We both grew up in the Lutheran church so I really do not get it at all. I just know I had to put her out of my life for my own sanity. It hurts, but it is healthier for me. Thanks for sharing.

 

woundedkarma

(498 posts)
61. In roughly the same boat
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:53 PM
Apr 2018

Religious nut of a sister. She used to be a person I got along with. Then she moved to West Virginia.

Her gay daughter once told me that of course she's going to burn in hell. She's a good person who wouldn't hurt a flea.. like literally, she'd rather not hurt bugs or anything else. But according to the way she was raised she's so horrible she'll burn in hell for eternity.

And it's her mom who's allowed her to believe this.

I really think this sort of religion needs to be declared a mental illness.

CanonRay

(14,118 posts)
62. I have some pretty conservative cousins
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:04 PM
Apr 2018

but nothing on this scale...sorry it happened to your sister.

FakeNoose

(32,773 posts)
63. It's possible to stage an intervention for your sister
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:05 PM
Apr 2018

If everyone in your family, and her very oldest friends, agrees to participate. It's not easy for those involved and there's no guarantee that she'll be convinced that she has a problem. I'm very sorry for you and your family. The cult has kidnapped and brainwashed her, and apparently she was willing to let it happen.

Good luck!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
66. Unfortunately that kind of emotional dependency
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:13 PM
Apr 2018

will only attach itself to something else just as bad.

I just let her live her life as she sees fit and I live mine. She needs it for some reason.

WestMichRad

(1,340 posts)
71. My sympathy for the loss of your sister
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:29 PM
Apr 2018

I understand your plight, my sister has put herself in a similar situation. With her, the driving force has been her reborn minister husband, who has repeatedly and publicly made no secret of his disdain for her heathen brother. As in every time our paths have crossed over the past several years. Out of courtesy to my sister, I've remained non-confrontational with him.

If a consequence for being "saved" would be having to spend eternity with that sanctimonious prick, I've made the right choice already.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,571 posts)
73. I once knew a person that I got along with quite well, oddly enough.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:29 PM
Apr 2018

I knew she was very devout, but a bit taken aback when she professed her unwavering belief in Young Earth. What REALLY surprised me, though, was that she knew both the dimensions and topography of Heaven. It seemed weirdly specific.

Less surprising was her antipathy towards Mexicans.

Another once told me she would immediately and irrevocably ostracize even her son, if he turned out to be gay. It's a dandy way to live, isn't it?

EX500rider

(10,868 posts)
80. If you talk to her whip this out:
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:42 PM
Apr 2018

A quote from Epicurus:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"

keithbvadu2

(36,923 posts)
81. The newly converted often have to demonize the old ways/others to rationalize their change.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 03:44 PM
Apr 2018

The newly converted often have to demonize the old ways/others to rationalize their change.

This can be for religion, alcohol, tobacco, weight loss, sex, most any bad habit.

TNLib

(1,819 posts)
82. I have a couple of zealots in my family
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:13 PM
Apr 2018

But they have serious diagnosed mental health disorders and are now elderly. Unfortunately their kids have some of those views as well but seem to be slowly overtime changing their perspective.

trackfan

(3,650 posts)
83. Reminds me of the quote from a comedian - I'm not sure who.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:19 PM
Apr 2018

I paraphrase:

Growing up in a small, religious town in Texas, I learned two things.

One: God loves you; and you're going to burn in hell.

Two: Sex is the most awful, filthy thing on the face of the earth; and you should save it for someone you love.


lunatica

(53,410 posts)
98. LOL
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 06:13 PM
Apr 2018

Eternal knee jerk mental acrobatics! It bypasses all logic with admirable speed and adroitness leaving the rest of us eating their dust!

kimbutgar

(21,202 posts)
90. When hear soneone say they are born again I know they are still the same a$$holes
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:57 PM
Apr 2018

They were before their so called conversion.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
93. She needs for you to believe. It angers her because you don't, but the anger comes from deep within.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 05:09 PM
Apr 2018

The source is her own inner doubts about her faith - the space between what she sees and what she wants to believe.

Empathetically, -- Earthshine

Faith is believing what you know ain't so. - Mark Twain

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
99. So, in essence she can legitimize her anger
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 06:18 PM
Apr 2018

by blaming me for “trying to tell her what to think” because she is trying her best not to think it too.

Good point!

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
101. It's basic psychology. If someone gets so angry at what you say ...
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 07:05 PM
Apr 2018

it's indicative of what they most fear, deep down inside. Often, we call it "triggering." Freud called it "resistance."

Ultimately, she's probably afraid there is no God, and no salvation after a few decades of being invested in this kind of thinking.

I forget who, but it has been said by philosophers that there is nothing scarier than "the void" (aka. the vacuum, nothingness). Even hell is better.

It's also basic psych that you can't confront her on her fear. She must figure it out on her own based on ambient evidence.

I have no advice for you other than ... send her love. Feel it as you send it. Live it, knowing it's who YOU are.

Your post hit me. Peace to you.

Vinca

(50,308 posts)
94. My father went through a brief phase like that near the end of his life.
Thu Apr 5, 2018, 05:15 PM
Apr 2018

Once, when I happened to be visiting, I went to the megachurch with him. What a freaky experience. People speaking in tongues and the whole shebang. The only things missing were the snakes. It was like being amongst hundreds of mentally ill people.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,217 posts)
109. My brother Rick is like that
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 10:05 AM
Apr 2018

He was a drug addict for 25 years. Then he became Born Again and gave up drugs. At first I thought it was great. We weren't raised in a religious household, but if religion helped him stay sober, I was happy for him.

But he never lifted a finger to help care for our mother when she was dying of cancer. He was living with her while she was in remission, but when she was diagnosed with metastisis in her bones, he moved out before she even came back from the hospital. He never even visited until about 2 weeks before she died. Then he spent his time telling her that the only reason he turned to drugs was because she didn't raise us as Christians.

He married his girlfriend without telling his 7 year old daughter or inviting her to the wedding. When he finally told her, she threw a huge tantrum. He took her back to her mother and said he never wanted to see her again. His payment of her child support into a trust fund, because her mother "didn't deserve it" was spotty at best.

When Mama was on her deathbed, we called him on a Wednesday to tell him that her death was imminent and if he wanted to see her before she passed away, he should come NOW. But he didn't come on Thursday. Then he didn't come on Friday because he was "sick". And when we called him on Saturday, he said he would come to see her on Sunday after church. She died in the wee hours Sunday morning, and he was SO upset.

When I was packing up Mama's things, I found an old Bible that my grandmother gave her for her 12th birthday. It was covered in ivory leather and had my mother's name on the cover in gold letters. It was so precious. I'm not a Christian, but since he is, I thought he might like to have it. When I offered it to him in an email, he wrote back and said that he didn't want it and that it would be better for me to READ it. Of course, I read plenty of it years before.

At our father's funeral, we didn't speak. Rick's 15 year old daughter, who he hadn't seen or spoken to in 8 years, came to the funeral with her mother to pay their respects. Of course there was no avoiding her. He shook her hand and told her he had been praying for her all these years. After the funeral, he chewed my other brother out for "inviting" his daughter without asking him first. "I have heart disease! She could have given me a heart attack!"

That's right Rick. It's all about you. It always has been.

But I don't have anything against Christians. Most of my friends and extended family are Chriatians. What I hate are sanctimonious HYPOCRITES.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
112. This is very similar to my sister who lives in another state
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:28 PM
Apr 2018

She didn’t come to see my mother when she got dementia. My mother had pancreatic cancer which took five years to metastasize into all her organs until it finally killed her. She was in home palliative care for a few months before she died. My sister would write letters to my mother telling her what she wanted to inherit and badmouthing me. She also told my mother that it was my fault she couldn’t come to see her because I was so selfish that I wanted to keep her, my mother, and all her things for myself.

It was nuts. All because I questioned her God. But the real reason my sister went to all that trouble is because she didn’t want to have to take care of my mother. So she made up things to make it look like it was my fault. I wasn’t letting her be the good daughter she really yearned to be.

The good thing is that my mother wasn’t aware enough to know what was going on. That’s the only good thing about that horrible illness that I can or will ever say. I truly hope a cure is found so no family ever has to go through that ever again.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,217 posts)
120. Ah yes. The inheritance
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 08:14 PM
Apr 2018

Rick borrowed tens of thousands of dollars from my mother over the years, never repaying her a cent. When she would ask him about it, he would tell her "take it out of my inheritance". My mother was a divorced, retired school teacher, so you can imagine how big her inheritance was. So she changed her will and split her estate 3 ways, between me, my good brother and Rick's daughter (the one he abandoned). It's no surprise he was livid. He threatened to sue and I told him if he could find a lawyer who would represent him for free to take away HIS DAUGHTER'S inheritance, he should go for it. Of course, he didn't.

LakeArenal

(28,846 posts)
111. One thing ....
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:17 AM
Apr 2018

It really doesn’t matter how hateful, petty or cruel. Because as long as they “really believe” at the end they just need to say sorry to anyone I hurt, ruined or killed and I repent. Done...eternal life....
(background angels singing). 🌅

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
114. I know!
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:35 PM
Apr 2018

I can’t wait to die and go to eternal punishment in hell!

I’m so looking forward to it!

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
116. Eh, just listen to Mozart instead.
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:02 PM
Apr 2018

For example--
One of the most brilliant creations in the history of western classical music..
Including an example of 5 part invertible counterpoint...!!

panfluteman

(2,067 posts)
115. Paramahansa Yogananda, One of India's Greatest Masters of Yoga
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:53 PM
Apr 2018

Once referred to the fundamentalist Christian concept of God as a "cosmic dictator" in his writings. It seems like your sister has found the earthly reflection of her godly ideal of a cosmic dictator in our so-called president.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
119. Ive read his autobiography
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 03:57 PM
Apr 2018

Cosmic dictator is exactly the right description. A god in a perpetual bad mood.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
117. I am straight. You asked the very same question that I ask religious people concerning LGBTQ
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:58 PM
Apr 2018

people. "Why would God want any creation reviled, hated and mistreated for no other reason than what God created that person as?". Their temple budge and they find a chore that they must rush off to attend.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
118. Maybe they rush to get out of the way
Fri Apr 6, 2018, 02:40 PM
Apr 2018

just in case their vengeful god strikes you dead or something.

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