I Say Shut Down Facebook For Sharing Our Data

[PaulX2]

If they lied to users about privacy.

I'd love to see Zuckerpunk broke anyway.

The lawsuits haven't even started. Did they tell users Facebook employees were helping Trump illegally target them?

[pnwmom]

1. Are you going to shut down Google, too? And all the rest of social media?

Facebook is just one piece of the gigantic, worldwide data puzzle.

[Blue_Adept]

3. Better to regulate and fix than to nuke it from orbit

[Sherman A1]

5. Precisely

They can only operate on the data you give them. If you choose to give them completely accurate data then they have it. If not, well... That said, they certainly need to do far better with their privacy measures, but some of the responsibility lies with the people using the site as well. Just as it does with this site.

[mythology]

51. Companies like Facebook track you by more than just their site

It's not just the stuff you do on their site, it's all across the web. People shouldn't have to be proactive to use a VPN and doing special ops to spread a false trail online.

[Sherman A1]

53. And google doesnt?

If you think that anything you are doing on the web is secure including this site, I would think again.

[Johnny2X2X]

60. The problem is technical knowledge

People makes statements like, "Well I don't give them hardly any of my data.", or "I only follow a few users." They are missing the point. Facebook(And Google etal.) is tracking your internet use in ways that the average person doesn't understand. They create a detailed psychological profile of you and that doesn't matter if you're putting fake info in or not. In fact, I'd bet they have an algorithm that tells them your real age if you lie about your age on Facebook. I bet they have programs that tell them all kinds of info about you that you don't imagine.

I could detail the hundreds of other shocking ways that Facebook is gathering and selling the data of its users, but that's not the point. The point is, they aren't being up front and open with what they do. If they explained to their users in plain language, their users would leave.

You are not a customer of Facebook, you are the product they are selling. Facebook's terms of service are not clear enough for people to fully understand. If they become clear enough to understand, Facebook's entire business model goes up in flames. If people really knew what they were agreeing to by using Facebook, they would almost universally reject it.

[Sherman A1]

65. You

Seem to be making several bets or assumptions in your statement about how it all works without specific information. You know what happens when you assume.......

[NYC Liberal]

74. Thats not true.

Facebook has “shadow profiles” of people who have never joined Facebook, created using data aggregated from many different sources. Even if you’ve never even gone to Facebook.com, they likely have a significant amount of data on you.

https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.html

Facebook mines this data to create "shadow profiles" of its billions of users. These are profiles that are filled with data about you that you have never consciously provided to the system -- data mined from third parties, including your friends, but also those spooky data-brokers. Facebook's shadow profile system was first confirmed in 2013 when it accidentally leaked users' shadow profiles to them along with their own data, something the company says it will never do again out of (ironic) respect for the privacy of the people who provided the data that goes into your shadow profile.

Facebook's shadow profiles are involuntary and there's no opt-out. Facebook has shadow profiles on people who don't use the service. For example, even though I'm not a Facebook user, multiple people have uploaded their address books containing my email and phone number to the system, allowing Facebook to create a profile of my contacts by looking at who lists me as a contact.

[nolabels]

81. If You want information you will probably end up giving information

It's an issue every person writing software knows to be a fact. The commercialization of people as products is almost as old as the internet also. The only real trick they have really used has been that dangling thing in front of your face telling you that everything is all good. They, knowing this, would just tell you, too bad for you that you went along and believed us

[Fullduplexxx]

48. More whataboutism

[pnwmom]

70. No. Whataboutism cites irrelevant things. What Google and other social media

are doing is entirely relevant to a discussion of Facebook. They ALL are collecting our information and they ALL need to be regulated. We won't be significantly safer if ONLY Facebook is addressed.

[Fullduplexxx]

71. A thing's irrelevancy is subjective and usually defined by those making the arguement and therefore

Is subjectively biased

[pnwmom]

73. And you are merely avoiding the issue. It's not just Facebook. It's all the other social media,

and Google and Youtube and more.

[democratisphere]

80. Google is much worse than fakebook. Social Media in it's current form

should be shutdown completely. Everyone being everyone else's friend is insane.

[Blue_Adept]

2. Thanks for wanting to shut down one of the main areas my business works in

And lots of others.

And those that get all sorts of community help and support.

[Lee-Lee]

4. You gave them your data

The product they sell is you. That is why it is free for you, because they are selling you to advertisers.

[still_one]

8. Gee, who'd a thunk that FB did data banking?

[bullsnarfle]

33. I'm shocked,

shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

[Brawndo]

12. Possible solution to the FB question

A proposal for a solution. Instead of shutting it down get rid of advertising on Facebook. They call it a social media platform, ok, so actually be that. Make it a membership service for people to connect with each other. No need for advertising to be a part of socializing with friends/relatives or stalking exes. It will no longer be a source of billions of dollars in profit.....it never should've been to begin with.

[Eyeball_Kid]

54. This makes sense.

We either pay for it one way or another. Apps like Tune-In offer their services for free, as long as they advertise. Pay for an upgrade, and, presumably, the ads go away. Facebook can do the same. If they don't, we can expect that other social media platforms will be created that offer paid, no ad, no data breach services, for a small fee. And all it takes is a small fee for the managers of the platform to make gazillions.

[janterry]

6. why is no one upset with amazon?

they left that survey up for months, despite the fact that workers told them the survey violated TOS. If they removed the survey within a few hours of the first report (that it violated ToS) none of this would have happened.

Granted, Facebook is the platform that they stole from explicitly. However, amazon mechanical turk was the tool they used to get the data.

[Wednesdays]

19. Trump is plenty upset with Amazon

Does that help?

[janterry]

26. well, now, for the wrong reasons

(if you can call trump's reasons 'reasons')

Amazon mechanical turk makes Amazon money - and they refuse to do much with the platform (make it more fair, offer improvements that benefit workers)
except make money for themselves. They were told that that HIT violated TOS (it asked for access to the workers facebook) almost as soon as it went up. They did nothing about it --for months - (from what I can see, perhaps as long as a year).

amazon should be taking some of the heat for the data breach

[vi5]

56. Because Trump is mad at them for different reasons..

...so Amazon is apparently off-limits and above reproach.

[still_one]

7. Gee, who would have thought that a social site where people expose information about themselves,

that information might be used by others?



No one forces anyone to use FB, and if people are concerned that their personal information is being exposed for others to see it, perhaps they shouldn't be using such sites.

[unc70]

17. FB has data on non members

Even if you have never signed up on FB, they still have lots of data on you. Any time you follow a link that eventually leads to Facebook, you are tracked even if the referenced content is kept "private". Every time you visit a site with the "f" icon, Facebook keeps track of your activity. If you never signed up, when did you give them permission?

Even in so-called-private browser modes, the information leakage is still great. And don't forget all the information about you provided by friends and family. They build up over time. Little things, but not so little. Someone posts a picture and tags or captions it with your name, the image still containing time and location information. And there you were!

What Facebook knows about you is nothing when compared with Google. Every web search, every YouTube video, every Google hosted ad, every web site that uses Google Analytics, ... All part of your profile.

Note that DU itself has almost all of the items mentioned above. It is just how it is.

[still_one]

30. I don't do FB or Twitter, but I am well aware that if I post something on the internet, including DU

a simple Google search can track it down.

[unc70]

31. You don't even have to post, just visit

The data is gathered even if you have never signed up, never posted, never bought online.

[still_one]

32. yes, and that is not unique to FB. If you want to avoid that, use private browsing

[unc70]

44. Private browsing is only a partial solution

Last edited Mon Apr 9, 2018, 12:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless you use something like Tor and other protections.

[JNelson6563]

9. You'll find little support here.

FB is like a golden calf here. There are many such idols here.

[Blue_Adept]

15. You mean like how Apple and Amazon are viewed?

Perhaps you've missed the other threads in the last few weeks that have people absolutely trashing and abandoning Facebook from here.

Just because there are those that find value in it where others don't doesn't mean it's a golden calf.

[getagrip_already]

10. meh, if they want to have the rights of a person...

They should have the responsibilities of a person, including prison time.

How do you put a corp in prison? Shut it down for 30 days. Next time, make it 3 months, then 6, then 12......

Screw the businesses built on it. They are complicit.

A corrupt business model has no rights to exist. Just like a corrupt business person has no right to keep swindling simply because its how they make their living.

Shut it down for 30 days. Let people take a walk, go outside, meet real people.

[onenote]

28. Prison time is imposed for breaking criminal laws.

What criminal statutes did FB break?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have more stringent privacy laws in the US. Just saying we don't.

[Blue_Adept]

29. Exactly

What happened here is what always happens with new technologies and advances. It's fairly unregulated at first and then when the excesses begin to show, or it does things that people dislike, laws are put into effect and regulations ensue to protect the general population.

[getagrip_already]

45. Well, for one...

They are required to protect PII, personally identifiable information. Every data owner is covered by those laws. Facebook violated its own policies by assigning employees to assist CA in mining data they weren't supposed to have access to.

Then, they lost track of it. When they discovered it, they never notified the people affected.

All violations under the law.

[JDC]

11. I say I continue to not use facebook

And those that are angry about the way they betrayed their trust, discontinue use of the platform. No users, no facebook.

[left-of-center2012]

13. If you don't like Facebook, don't use it

Many of us old folks use it to keep in touch with friends and family.

I don't get my news there or read the ads.
The only info 'they' got about me is I'm a old foggie who likes funny photos of cats.

[moonseller66]

14. Shut down FB?

Wow! I thought someone said to ban guns and the gun nuts went berserk defending their position!
Can't see the logic in either shutting FB down or not.
But specious comments trying to defend your use of it is as bad as the gun nuts.

If you don't give FB your data , you can't use it. If you give your data and it's stolen and you bitch, then the First amendment "nuts" scream "my stuff is ok, shut down other things."

Then there's the excuse that it's needed to keep in touch with friends and family, because you have to know what your friends and family are doing every single instant of your life.

And business? Cheap way to get your product out without paying other businesses to help your business.

Wouldn't it be great if we just had some other way to communicate with friends or family? Maybe some way we could actually speak to them in real time...sort of like a more friendly way than texting? Or maybe we could use some currently free system of, oh, electronic mail that doesn't require your name, rank, serial number and the number of times you use the toilet to contact them?

Regulate it? Sure! Right after they regulate guns. Don't hold your breath.

IOKIIUI (It's ok if I use it!)

Let the firestorm begin.

[getagrip_already]

22. nothing personal, but....

this argument annoys the tar out of me. Really.

If I don't give them my data, I don't have to worry. So now I'm the bad guy.

Do you say this about your credit card data? Do you say that about your private health data (after all, you don't have to go to a doctor or hospital, right?)? Do you say that about your email provider?

The answer obviously, is no. You don't. You have an expectation and a right to assume they will not misuse the data you entrust to them.

And don't point to some 9000 word EULA that says you authorized it. You didn't. Not like this.

They need a punishment that will keep any company from doing this again.

Maybe not a permanent shutdown, but 5 days at least to start. I'd say 30 myself. That is about the minimum sentance you would get for a misdemeanor violation, let alone a felony.

Again, PLEASE don't take this as a personal attack. You just happen to be the lucky winner of the lottery I chose to respond to.

[moonseller66]

34. No problem with your reply

I'm rather ambivalent about FB. It's just entertaining to watch the excuses for something when someone uses "Their" medium or whatever and defends it with their logic while attacking others for defending their ideals.

I personally have nothing against FB except for one item and it pertains to all the social media we've seen the last few years.
If the Russians can use it to convince the "less informed" to vote for some specific candidate before an election, maybe we could stop the FB posts a month before an election. I know that won't happen for the same reason we'll never have effective gun control. Because we certainly wouldn't want Zuckerberg (damn spell check!) to lose money! That's un American. And regulation...well, by the time that gets done we'll probably all have psychic powers or at least have some sort of cranial plugin like Johnny Mnemonic.

Privacy? Don't kid yourself. Parents signed that away when we are born nowadays.
As far as being able to communicate with friends and family, we've grown too lazy. Imagine if all of a sudden FB, twitter, etc. users had to actually, physically write on a piece of paper, put it in an envelope and (gasp) pay 47 cents to send it. My goodness, it might take actual time to get a reply.

Yeah, your idea of a temp shutdown and mine the month before an election would make sense, but...again, don't touch my whatever, but let's stop yours.

Fun times ahead.

[Blue_Adept]

43. A month shutdown for an election that would close plenty of businesses

That makes a lot of sense. You realize a lot of people of lower incomes run their businesses through Facebook, advertise through it, draw customers to their restaurants, handle additional customer service through it, and so forth?

Never mind the thousands and thousands of support groups that utilize it for various communities of need?

But yes, let's shut it down because there's an election.

Might as well say shut down TV networks and cable news for a month before the election.

[getagrip_already]

46. the world spun before fb, and it will spin after fb.....

Maybe if they feel a little pain, the world be a better place. If the businesses end up revolting, that will be a plus.

Sorry, but if you run a business on a corrupt platform, don't be surprised if it ends up not being stable.

[Blue_Adept]

50. Sounds like the same as being said to farmers about the trade war

After all, the US is the interests of corrupt businesses.

[KTM]

83. Feed the beast, vicious cycle style

You are correct, way too many businesses use Fakebook - a social tool originally meant to allow college students to hook up with each other - as a primary mechanism for conducting online business. That should have never happened, but it was easy, so people ran with it... easy solutions rarely serve well over time.

I cant tell you how much I hate it when I go to look up a business, and find two links - one to a web page that is now defunct, and one to a Fakebook page. And if you want to see the photos, or get specific information, or dig just a little below the surface, you are prompted to join Fakebook. Eventually, people feel/felt a need to join Fakebook because not only are their friends sharing photos there, but all their local small businesses used it as their primary online presence. I know plenty of small stores, cafe's, and bars that regularly use Facebook exclusively to notify their customers of upcoming specials, or to invite people to events, or to push out information that helps create a community around their business. I never hear about those... nor do many others... and I resent the fact that I miss out on great events because I resist joining Fakebook.

Businesses that rely on Fakebook as a crutch to avoid having an actual online presence are part of the problem. It is the least common denominator of online identities, and relying on it for your business is lazy and socially harmful. There isnt an easy solution, but using the understandable but poorly conceived business choices of some as a defense to protect an out-of-control and dangerous company is not viable in the long term. It's like saying, "Yeah, but do you know how many small businesses used Asbestos ?? We cant get rid of it!"

[mreilly]

16. Here we go again...

... with the nonstop ranting and raving that FB is evil and anyone who continues to use it is stupid.

You can tweak your privacy settings in FB to eliminate the problem. Google for the details; it takes just a couple of minutes.

But I suppose it's much more fun to just keep right on ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving and ranting and raving about how awful FB is and how mind-numbed and idiotic those who ignore your holier-than-thou, finger-waving, "tut tut tut" admonitions are.

Have fun, kids!

[Blue_Adept]

18. It reminds me of the dutch boy plugging the single hole in the damn

Not realizing what's really going on across the whole of everything.

[unc70]

20. Privacy settings are not a solution

The reach of Facebook goes far beyond any privacy settings, and it is still less than Google. See my post above.

[getagrip_already]

24. look, if a hacker did this

We would put them in prison for years. This is a corporation, and you can't put them in jail.

But you can punish them. And a shutdown, even temporary would send a VERY serious message. And they deserve no less.

[barbtries]

21. FB is how i keep in touch with my extended family

and friends i never see. i'm not quitting it. anyway as also mentioned in this thread, you'd have to shut them all down. our information is what they sell.
instagram
youtube
snapchat
google
i know there's more but these are apps i either use or have used. I HATE instagram but my children don't, and i wanna see them. we live on opposite sides of the country.

[getagrip_already]

25. oh the inconvenience!!!!

Sorry, I can't get excited over loss of service here. The world turned before fb and it will turn after. Maybe an even platform will come along.

Don't expect sympathy because you have to put a little effort into personal relationships.

[Blue_Adept]

27. If it's not something you use much, of course you won't get excited over the loss of it

For those that use it a lot to keep in touch with people that they wouldn't be able to otherwise, or community and support groups that only exist there, the loss would be significant.

Nobody wants your sympathy. What they would expect is some empathy as a fellow liberal in trying to understand others and their situation rather than just acting like a conservative.

[barbtries]

36. wow

please, save your sympathy. you don't have to get ugly over it.

[DrDan]

39. getagrip already - if it works for some folks, let them use it

good heavens

[getagrip_already]

49. It's not the users fault or burden....

It's FB's. Just like when a bank goes under its not the customers fault. I'm not blaming fb users or businesses.

But zuch is the issue, and he won't change unless he is forced to. Even a 1 day shutdown would force a change in the business model, as long as the threat of a longer shutdown loomed.

You don't get change without bold actions.

[DrDan]

55. a 1-day shutdown? or longer? not going to happen

[getagrip_already]

62. fb has been down for days before....

due to technical issues, and at least once due to dos attacks on the network backbone.

It survived. The shock would be more political than economic.

[DrDan]

64. those, of course, are not user-motivated - that's the issue here

[getagrip_already]

67. if a court ordered it based on legislation passed...

they wouldn't have much choice.

We need legislation that calls for this as a penalty. No company is to big to regulate.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. Can you post procedure for closing Facebook

Accounts. Massive account closures will put pressure on them. Many of us signed up long ago and never spend a second telling people we ate at McDonald's an hour ago. The universe called...you have posted too many pics of your kids!

[getagrip_already]

47. You don't have to close it permanently...

just lock the front door until their penance is up. Even 1 day would send a message.

Zuckerbergh is the problem here. He won't change unless he is forced to.

But to answer your question, seize the assetts, delete the data, and send people on their way. Just look at what the feds did to backpage.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

35. Facebook has helped my business grow.......

My client base grown due to the fact that I display my work, keep up my business page, get new messages weekly for commissions, make new friends for ife with repeat customers and referrals.

Yes, I am angry that my personal information may have been compromised. But I am also careful what I post and who I accept as Friends.

[Blue_Adept]

38. A 47-cent stamp letter will get you more business!

Or you should use other services instead.

Or something else, according to some.

Anything but FB! If they don't use it, why do you have to? It's almost like they don't know your situation...

[ProudMNDemocrat]

40. Because I can reach thousands of people.......

Because I can reach thousands of people for a few dollars here and there.

I use the USPS to ship all finished products via Priority Mail, rather than Fed Ex or UPS. My Post Office is 6 blocks from my house.

I have family and friends scattered all over the country and around the world. It is how I keep in touch with them with posts and pictures.

I belong to various Groups be they Politics, Weight Watchers, Period Clothing, Renaissance Festivals, Period Re-Enactments, Crafts I am interested in, etc.

So a 47 cent stamp does not take care of everything that rocks my world.

[Blue_Adept]

41. Sounds very similar to me

I have to work through multiple social media services to ensure that my content gets out there to as wide a range of people as possible.

I've made friends from around the world that would be impossible to keep up with. Prior to social media it was limited only to the more technically inclined with limited forums or IRC. Now everyone is connected easily.

Plus all the businesses on FB that I keep track of for news, information, etc.

The push of a 47-cent stamp by some for keeping in touch just makes it clear they don't understand the world today.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

42. We are of similar minds, then Blue_Adept........

Like with any toy we play with, we have to be careful.

If it were not for Facebook or the Internet as a whole, I would not be in business as I am today. There are only so many people I can reach with a business card, fliers sent in the mail, etc. So many places I can shop without having to make time to drive miles for what I am looking for for commissions.

Each business runs in a way that suits them for the most exposure, and return on investment. If I spend $25 and it nets me a $3,500 commission, that is money well spent.

[mreilly]

76. But but but Blue_Adept, listen!

.... you HAVE to listen to us and sacrifice your business and your connections on FB because WE SAY SO and what WE SAY GOES!

Don't you know that! WE know what's BEST for you. So you just shut down all your FB accounts and get right back to 1985 and sending out mass mailings. I know what - you can also buy lists of FAX numbers you can then spam to get the word out. Hey, you can also go door to door, like in your neighborhood! ANYTHING but use FB! Stop using FB! STAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHP!

Because it's really really really important that other people take one to the chin just so we can push our anti-FB agenda. And if you won't, well, uh, YOUR STOOPID!

So there!

(obviously this was sarcasm. The anti-FB tyrants are an even bigger pest around here than the endless stupid Hillary vs. Bernie babblers who just go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on).

[Blue_Adept]

77. They're the same as the anti-amazon and anti-apple

Rather than looking for proper controls through legal means, it's all about just shutting it all down.

Sometimes they take on the same appearance as PETA types these days.

[DrDan]

37. Don't you think that might be a tad extreme

[CountAllVotes]

52. Luckily I never signed up w/them

I was curious but not that curious!

They wanted a copy of my ID to open an acct. (last year) and I said, forget it!

F YOU FAKEBOOK & YOUR LIES!

Hope ya'll rot in hell!

[xor]

57. People willingly gave up their data. Hopefully this will get people dial back how much they share

Facebook screwed up and they should suffer what consequences for it, but those consequences should come from the users. People need to stop using it and other services that are too invasive and untrustworthy.

Delete your accounts if you have them and stay away from it. In cases where it's the best way to keep in contact with certain people, then use as light of a touch as possible.

Has the illegality of what they've done been established?

[KPN]

58. Seems like the best way to deal with Facebook for those

who don't want to or don't know how to proactively obscure their personal online data is to just not use it. A little harder to do that with Google though -- we all actually depend on it so much.

Better yet, an emergence of viable competitors who provide like services but do not mine and share data would rock FB's and Google's world. With all the public/personal concern about this issue, strong competition may actually be viable though not as lucrative as the existing platforms (FB et al).

[Clarity2]

59. Id prefer a class action suit

For all companies that sell our info. The equal exchange here for use of a website is either ad viewership or a subscription. That should be the extent of it. You don’t get the benefit of selling our info without a) permission (with a simple opt out) and b) financially compensating people.

[Guilded Lilly]

61. Every time use go online, use your cell, use a credit card, kiss your privacy goodbye

Facebook has been giving millions access to family and friends who are not within arms reach.
If you don’t want that, certainly don’t use it.
Be more proactive and informed and cautious, yes.
Shut it down, no.

[Captain Stern]

63. I say "Let's not"

How about we try this instead?...

.....if you don't want to use Facebook, then don't. Nobody is putting a gun to your head, and forcing you to use Facebook. (of course, if someone actually is putting a gun to your head to force you to use Facebook, I'll stand corrected)

......if you do use Facebook, and there's data you don't want anyone to get through Facebook, then DON'T give Facebook that data.

Can we try those two things before we have the government, or whoever, shut Facebook down? I'm pretty sure those two things will work.

[tammywammy]

66. What exactly would give the government authority to shut down Facebook? n/t

[ucrdem]

68. Don't worry, Our Revolution is all over this

. . . on their FB page.

[rockfordfile]

69. Seems to me Facebook is just another un-American company.

[HipChick]

72. It's not just Facebook though...Data Mining is big biz..

[MineralMan]

78. Just shut down your account.

Or do what I did long ago - manage your privacy settings and check them regularly. Be an informed user of sites you visit. I have no concerns about my own Facebook usage.

[Mike Nelson]

79. No...

...if you use a phone, every word you say is collected for data. Every search on the Internet. If I look for a denim jacket on the Internet, I come to DU and see ads for denim jackets... at least Facebook gives me some control.

[Snackshack]

82. It amazes me...

That after all this time and the numerous hacks, viruses, data breaches that have occurred since the internet’s inception that people still think there is actual privacy for any information posted on the internet. There simply is not. If a person wants to keep something private do not put it on the internet.