This message was self-deleted by its author

[kentuck]

This message was self-deleted by its author (kentuck) on Mon Apr 9, 2018, 12:32 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Common ground? NO need, we have that already, you do this

1. tell everyone you know to vote for any democrat who has a pulse

2. then have a nice cup of coffee

[Lulu KC]

2. Interesting topic and worth thinking about

Bernie has been dead to me. Then last week he dug his own grave just a little deeper. He's not a Democrat and that is my main problem--he confuses people about that. I see a lot of anti-Bernie stuff, but I show my true lack of love with total lack of interest.

But how to transcend, when transcend we must? It will take a new face to do it, or it will a brutal fight to the end (e.g. if Joe runs).

I am not sure that I can contribute anything constructive because there are so many things I became annoyed about during the last election, but your post will help me remember to not be destructive. "First do no harm," as the docs say.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. There are plenty of other Democrats whom can carry Bernie's message

In fact, the Democratic Party pretty much supports verbatim everything that Bernie supports. The problem with Bernie is that, like with Trump, there seems to be a "cult of personality" around Bernie that refuses to support anybody but Bernie and/or attack Democrats for not being "pure" enough (like Bernie).

[Orsino]

4. Bernie didn't start a movement.

He tried, with considerable success, to nurture it and give it a national voice--but it didn't belong to him and still doesn't. He's no longer a Democrat, though, and should probably be seen as a potentially useful ally rather than a contender for party leadership.

[PatrickforO]

5. I think there are a lot of people on here who just like to have the last word.

So everytime we get a (in my opinion some of them ARE) troll post on here the encourages divisiveness a whole bunch of people rise to the (click) bait.

Personally I am quite progressive, and support Bernie's platform. Happily, many of the things he campaigned on are now in the Democratic platform. I know because I'm on my county's platform committee, and we just met yesterday post-caucus and post-county-assembly.

We need to remember first of all that come November, we need to vote straight Dem tickets. It's really come to that - we've got to get rid of these right wing crazies from all levels of government. And, we need to flip both Houses of the US Congress.

When this is done, we need to impeach Trump and get rid of his whole corrupt, crooked, treasonous administration. Then, when the right wing crazy 'militias' get their gunz out and put on their cammies to hit the streets with their filthy swastikas and brown shirts and faces contorted with hatred, we need to pressure the Dems we've elected to send in the Guard and put them DOWN - either in prison or back under their rocks. Because that IS gonna happen - it is quite likely to come to fighting.

After this, we can argue about planks in the platform. And I'll introduce one right now that is VITAL. We need to reintroduce a 21st century version of the Fairness Doctrine to ensure that news is news and we all here who, what, where, when and how. This way, we'll all be operating from the same set of facts, and the divisions will slowly heal.

In the meantime, for your amusement, and in honor of the Millennials and Gen Z:

I've got my clipboard, text books
Lead me to the station
Yeah, I'm off to the civil war
I've got my kit bag, my heavy boots
I'm runnin' in the rain
Gonna run till my feet are raw

Slip kid, slip kid, second generation
And I'm a soldier at thirteen
Slip kid, slip kid, realization
There's no easy way to be free
No easy way to be free
It's a hard, hard world

I left my doctor's prescription bungalow behind me
I left the door ajar
I left my vacuum flask
Full of hot tea and sugar
Left the keys right in my car

Slip kid, slip kid, second generation
Only half way up the tree
Slip kid, slip kid, I'm a relation
I'm a soldier at sixty-three
No easy way to be free
Slip kid, slip kid

Keep away old man, you won't fool me
You and your history won't rule me
You might have been a fighter, but admit you failed
I'm not affected by your blackmail
You won't blackmail me

I've got my clipboard, text books
Lead me to the station
Yeah, I'm off to the civil war
I've got my kit bag, my heavy boots
I'm runnin' in the rain
Gonna run till my feet are raw

Slip kid, slip kid, slip out of trouble
Slip over here and set me free
Slip kid, slip kid, second generation
You're slidin' down the hill like me

No easy way to be free
No easy way to be free
No easy way to be free

Slip Kid, by the Who
Songwriter: Pete Townshend

[RandomAccess]

6. You can't imagine how farkin SICK I am of all the

Bernie bashing that goes on here. It's beyond ridiculous. It's INCREDIBLY divisive.

And frankly, while you may MEAN well, your post doesn't fucking HELP. Why? Because it includes even more Bernie bashing. And just LOOK at the immediate responses -- more Bernie bashing.

And I don't even fucking care if he runs again, nor sure I'd support him if he did. But the constant, endless BASHING that goes on here is about to drive me away.

NO ONE IS CONTINUING TO BASH HILLARY, are they?? There IS no "both sides" to this who "need to find common ground." There is ONE SIDE that needs to STFU, to be blunt.

You don't find common ground by rubbing someone's face in the dirt.

That's what keeps happening here.

And frankly, while I agree with you about WHY DUers shouldn't work so damned hard at alienating Bernie supporters, at this point your practical and important reasons begin to sound self-serving and frankly offensive.

Why can't you just say -- or at least ALSO say -- it's disrespectful to your fellow DUers to continue to bash Bernie and that should stop?

Personally, I think Bernie started a movement in the last election that is not going away.

That's the best thing you said, only because it's true.

But, I am not sure Bernie is the person to carry it forward.

AFAIC/AFIAK, it's none of your business and YOU don't get to choose.

God grief, people. This has to stop.

[Dennis Donovan]

7. [phone]

Russian bots just have to sit back and let us destroy ourselves.

[kentuck]

9. You state very clearly the problem I see.

We can keep our heads in the sand.

I can delete this post. I was trying to understand where both sides are coming from? I guess that isn't important?

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. One "side" doesn't want a truce

Your phrasing reminds me of how news anchors are always stretching to find false equivalencies. I can't even remember the last time I attacked a sitting member of the Democratic Caucus here on DU. And I have followed the wishes of the Forum Administrators to not rehash the primaries. And I never go looking for trouble vis a vis Hillary Clinton. I see the Republicans as our enemies, but group efforts to make this into an Anti Sanders forum can't indefinitely be ignored.

[RandomAccess]

11. +1000000

[NurseJackie]

12. Agreed. When one "side" continually smears and attacks and denigrates the party....

Agreed. When one "side" continually smears and attacks and denigrates the party, that's an indication that a "truce" is definitely NOT something that's desired.

but group efforts to make this into an Anti Sanders forum can't indefinitely be ignored

Nobody is doing that.

[NurseJackie]

10. I've always liked you... don't take this personally... but this is horseshit.

Why Bernie supporters and detractors need to call a truce?

Wouldn't it make MORE sense to get on board with getting Bernie himself to "call a truce" and to end the nonstop smears and attacks on the Democratic party and Democrats?

How about that instead? Wouldn't that make more sense instead of demanding that loyal Democrats simply remain SILENT and concede to the divisive voices that want to denigrate and weaken our party with continuous attacks and smears?

I think it's important to point out to you that the "detractors" (to use your negatively charged word) are RESPONDING TO HIS OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR. We're not the instigators. We are the defenders.

It's unclear to me if you intended it to sound this way, but in your choice of words, you make it sound like you think Bernie is being unfairly attacked, and that it's coming OUT OF THE BLUE, for no good reason at all. Do you think it happens spontaneously?

Do you think that someone sends out the bat-signal because we're all bored and have nothing better to do?

The last thing Democrats need before the next election is to be divided. Personally, I think Bernie started a movement in the last election that is not going away. But, I am not sure Bernie is the person to carry it forward.

Again... you want loyal Democrats to stand silent. Why? Even if you're "not sure" he's the right person... that doesn't explain why any loyal Democrat should remain silent in the face of the attacks and smears and bashing of our party.

However, those Democrats that criticize Bernie so vehemently might want to think about the consequences?

So, the loyal Democrats among us who defend against the smears and attacks and divisive rhetoric that denigrates and weakens the Democratic party are the ones being warned about "consequences"? Seriously? What horseshit!

Why are you focusing on those who "criticize Bernie so vehemently"? Where's your equally strong condemnation of those who bash and trash the Democratic party? Sorry, Kentuck, I'm just not seeing how it is that you expect people to believe you're offering us an "even handed" and "level headed" approach that takes the all sides and all positions into consideration.

Bernie won a lot of Democratic voters to his side. Democrats cannot simply throw them overboard and pretend they are not needed to win elections.

We loyal Democrats who defend the party against smears and attacks are doing no such thing.

In my opinion, that is political suicide. Both sides need to find a common ground within the Democratic Party.

Ahhh... the "both sides" argument, eh? It sounds so familiar... where have I heard it before? Hmmm... let me think.

If Bernie decided to run as a Third Party candidate, he would get a lot of Democrats to support him, just as he did in the last election.

No DEMOCRATS would support him.

The Democratic Party cannot afford to lose those voters. Rather than criticize, they need to start looking for a solution, in my opinion.

The way you describe it, you make it sound like the Democratic party is being blackmailed. Screw that!