Jesus, hate , and fried chicken

[arely staircase]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by SunsetDreams (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I am a Christian. I worship God and believe that Jesus Christ was his son sent to earth to set for me an example as to how to live. That example he set was one of unconditional love and acceptance of my fellow human beings as they are. In fact, Christ admonishes me to never judge another because I am imperfect and it is a big enough task to correct my own shortcomings.

Certain people have tried to distort my faith to justify their prejudices. And others, though well meaning, have accepted those very distortions of my faith to justify their condemnation of Christianity.

So for the record:

I believe in biological evolution, not a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis.

I believe that gays have not only the right to marriage under earthly law but that my.church should bless such unions as well. In fact we have ordained openly gay and.lesbian ministers but are working our way toward consecrating same sex marriage vows within our church.

I believe the most important duty of a.Christian is to fight for social and economic justice. And my church backs me up on this.

I am tired of loud mouthed hypocrites hiding their real agenda of hate behind Christ's Gospel of love and forgiveness.

Folks, when you judge all of us by the hateful blasphemy of radical fundamentalism, you hobble those of us who are fighting for social justice in the name of Christ.

Please, may we all, progressives of.every faith or non faith, join together for the common good.

May God soften the hearts of those who hate his children because they are gay and open the eyes of those who think those haters represent Him.

In Christ's name I pray, amen.

[Raster]

1. Bless your heart.

[arely staircase]

9. and yours nt

[RobertEarl]

2. we were told we would be attacked for our beliefs

You would think they could find something better to do. But at least when they are attacking us it allows others some space.

So all i can say is they should bring it.

[arely staircase]

10. yes.

The journey of a liberal Christian in today's America often seems a lonely one. But only through dialouge and spreading the Gospel of love will we be truly saved.

[Son of Gob]

17. Saved from what?

[arely staircase]

20. please dont get me wrong

I am not some fundie who believes you must believe as I do. My point is that fundies are misrepresenting Jesus Christ. Like I have said, I know more athiests who fight for real Christian values than I do self proclaimed Christians.

[bluestateguy]

3. You must be in UCC

Or United Methodist perhaps? Episcopal?

[arely staircase]

5. you got me

Proud Episcopalian.

[Phlem]

4. I shake your hand and say

Thank you kindred spirit.

Blessings.

-p

PS. Sorry I should really change my log in name.

[arely staircase]

11. and may God's peace be upon you nt

[physioex]

6. I am an atheist....

And I do respect your beliefs as I am sure you would respect my ideology. I think all of us share in the same common goals and should find better ways to come together.

Are you aware of the Baptist Church in MS that refused to marry the black couple?

[arely staircase]

14. of

Course I respect you. Sadly I know more athiests who fight for Christian values than those who claim to ne Christians. And yes I did here about that particular blasphemy
.

[physioex]

15. +1

[12ZTR]

24. Am I?

I don't believe in the stuff that I believe.LOL

[physioex]

53. Yes....

[hfojvt]

7. Christ's Gospel of Love and forgiveness

I do not see that in the Gospel. Yes, there is forgiveness, but there is ALSO supposed to be repentance. "Go, and sin no more." Not, go and do whatever you want and I will love and accept everything.

[font color=red] "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven....And then I will declare to them 'I never knew you: depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' [/font] Matthew 7: 21-23

[font color=red] "But why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do the things which I say?" [/font] Luke 6: 46

Isaiah 1: 16-17 "Cease to do evil, learn to do good:..."

Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live?

Ezekiel 33: 11 "As I live," says the Lord God "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live."

[arely staircase]

8. and God will forgive those who have persecuted his children

for being as he made them, if they repent. Let is pray for those who set themselves up as God and condemn others, ignoring the beam in their own eye.

[hfojvt]

16. you seem to condemn others there yourself

why are you looking at the mote in their eye? Judging them as "loud mouthed hypocrites"?

You seem to agree that "some actions and words should be condemned" but only disagree about WHICH actions and words should be condemned and ordered to cease and desist.

[arely staircase]

19. hate and bigotry are satanic

As.in the antithesis of Christ. But the good news is he died for all of our sins. Even those of the most hateful homophobe. If those, like the owners of chick-fil-a repent and ask God to forgive them he will.

Edited to.say I don't believe my beliefs are.the only valid ones.

[William769]

12. Luke 7:36-50

[William769]

13. Amen Brother!

[Son of Gob]

18. "I worship God and believe that Jesus Christ was his son sent to earth"

[arely staircase]

21. and to you this

[Son of Gob]

23. Thank you

[12ZTR]

22. Wondering

Who would Jesus hate today?
What caliber handgun would he carry today?

[longship]

25. I am a lifelong atheist and I support this message.

Not entirely. But we can work together on this. We may disagree on the existence of a higher "power". But we agree on many things.

Good for you. We might make a secularist of you yet.

No offense meant.

[arely staircase]

28. none taken

And I appreciate your post.

[Volaris]

34. This might not contribute anything meaningful to this thread, but...

I am of the opinion that truly enlightened forms of Christianity (or any other faith system) can move the adherents of that faith to exactly the same place as atheists and agnostics (in terms of secularism and scientific inquiry, anyway). But it takes a level of enlightenment that no longer carries with it an overt need of established RELIGIOUS doctrines and practices. In other words, your Church should be3 doing such an outstanding job of bringing you to that place of enlightenment, that you no longer have need of the Church as a religious construct. In MY humble opinion, THIS is the Gospel that we are called to spread.

[longship]

38. That is as reasonable religious position as any.

I was raised UCC (United Church of Christ -- we called ourselves Congregationals), but even as a kid I thought Christianity as kind of strange. But I still loved the music and friendship at church every week. My family was active until I was about 12-13. Then, we all stopped going to church, the whole family. It was a mutual decision after attending the same church for as long as I could remember.

Thanks for your response.

[arely staircase]

42. i disagree, though respectfuly

the presiding bishop of my church is a PhD in oceanography, so we are down with reality and scientific inquiry. We are not fundamentalists who take things such as the creation story in genesis as literal. we believe in evolution. but we also believe in what cultural anthropologists call "the sacred". and i think for many, many people that is still a basic need.

if you ever get the chance to witness a high anglican mass, do so. it is quite beautiful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Jefferts_Schori

[Swagman]

26. well said... I think JC predicted these fakers would appear

and he sounded like a cool dude I would have liked to know

[arely staircase]

29. thank you and yes he did

He could.actually be kind of snarky and impatient at times. He would have fit right in at du.

[Great Caesars Ghost]

27. "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

[uponit7771]

31. ...for whom? TIA

[arely staircase]

33. about that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/But_to_bring_a_sword

[Bluerthanblue]

35. yes indeed- because if we were to really adopt

the "gospel" that Jesus advocates- "love your neighbor as yourself" "do good to those who hurt you"- "do not repay evil for evil" -etc.

This radical thinking and self-LESS living will cost you your 'friends'- it will divide people.

If a Conservative took up liberal ideas, they'd be cut off from their 'base'- it would be difficult for them to maintain their present spot in society.

That verse has been used to justify all kinds of twisted things, when if you really read it, and think about it, what he's saying is don't think it's going to be easy or comfortable.

At least, after many years of puzzling over this, that is my experience and understanding.

[arely staircase]

39. i think that is spot on.

following a path of pure love like Christ (which virtually none of us do frankly) would be extremely devisive and lead to a lot of conflict. Of course not if everyone did it. Jesus was pretty much saying "if you do this, expect to catch a lot of grief. you may even lose your family."

[Uncle Joe]

47. Jesus wasn't preaching violence, he was speaking of upheaval, change, division and reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malchus

The relevant passage in the Gospel of John, KJV, reads:

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the scabbard: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

The story is often used to illustrate Jesus' rejection of violence[citation needed] and surrender to God's will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter#Arrest_of_Jesus

The three synoptic Gospels all mention that, when Jesus was arrested, one of his companions cut off the ear of a servant of the High Priest.[27] The Gospel of John also includes this event and names Peter as the swordsman and Malchus as the victim.[Jn. 18:10] Luke adds that Jesus touched the ear and miraculously healed it.[Lk. 22:50]

[LibertyLover]

30. Nicely said

I am not Christian, but may your Lord bless you and keep you.

May your Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you.

May your Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

[arely staircase]

43. thank you

that means a lot.

[lunatica]

32. I'm an agnostic but I believe in this fight

I just don't do it in the name of Christ. I think if he's for real he'd like that some people do it for the love and in the name of Humanity.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. he addressed this imo-

when he says to those who have lived overtly 'religious' lives "I never knew you"

And to those who are surprised to be called "his" saying "when did we treat you kindly?"

"whatever you do to the 'least of these'- you did unto me".

I think you have what 'he' talked about, no matter what name is put to it.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. beautiful Arely

thank you for this.

[arely staircase]

40. awe, hugs

thank you

[RainDog]

41. ...

[Taverner]

44. I am an Atheist. I do not believe in anything supernatural.

That includes chakras, Mohammeds, Jesuses or Yahwehs.

However, when I was a Christian, Genesis 2 pretty much seemed like Evolution to me

[DemocracyInaction]

45. Christian all my life

Felt like I lived in the church all through childhood (parents were pillars of Lutheran church)....for the life of me I don't know how these wingers were reading the same Bible I was raised with. They must be reading it upside down and assbackward! !

[haele]

46. And sadly, they would happily stone you for your love and mercy.

Their god is not yours, even though you both read the same book and call the prophets and deities in that book the same name. Their god reflects them and frankly, what they have made in the image of their jealousy, fear, resentment and greed is an ignorant drunken bully.

They revel in their hate, and it shows in their eyes and their voice when they talk about it. It gives them the feeling of power. I don't know how you can take back your god and your book, but they have apparently stolen it from you, and they are using it as an excuse to bring suffering on those they don't like or stand up to them - even those who should be their own brothers and sisters both in biology and in faith.

Haele

[sadbear]

48. Do you believe in heaven?

If so, then who do you suppose was the first person to get in?

[arely staircase]

49. i don't know what happens after we die

i don't think about it much. "getting into heaven", whatever that means, is not why i am a Christian. I believe God isalways with us, in this life or whatever comes next. for me "salvation through Christ" means the changes following what he taught has allowed me to make in my own life here on earth. So, the "heaven/hell/are you saved?" thing is really more of a fundamentalist/evangelical thing. Not saying everyone who believes that is a fundie or a nut of some sort. Being a Christian because you think it will get you into heaven, frankly seems a little selfish. and selfishness doesn't seem very Christ-like to me.

[sadbear]

50. I guess you missed the point of my question.

I like to ask that question Christians who say they believe in evolution. But am I wrong to think that the vast majority of Christians KNOW they're going to heaven? I guess you're an exception.

[arely staircase]

52. im not that unique in that regard

among Episcopalians. Many of them would probably give you a similar answer. We focus on social justice issues not heaven/hell.

[salin]

54. Many in the UCC would respond the same way

myself included.

Great thread. Your responses reflect my beliefs as well.

[arely staircase]

56. thanks i love UCC

I have been to UCC services in Austin a few times. Definitely kindered spirits.

[patrice]

55. I think you're right about "the vast majority of Christians", but do you know that there is no dogma

on what/where heaven is? Only some actions, by this or that pope to say what it isn't, like whichever pope it was that stopped the great Jesuit scientist Pierre Tielhard de Chardin from talking and writing about science and religion together.

So, those Christians may be right in principle, but wrong on the specifics about something that may be more it's own point, i.e. not elsewhere, not elsewhen, because it's all right here and right now and "heaven" is a primitive way of saying that one/we is/are in process towards apprehending that more honestly and, hence, more wholely.

The fancy words for this are teleological ontogeny, but they just mean that all of reality is a whole and it is its own point/purpose and all of it (including us) is in the process of knowing itself more completely.

One thing I like about this perspective is that it makes all of the errors we see about us part of a whole encoded there with everything else and contributing in their own ways to our learning. This is also one of the reasons why it is so important that we must identify and stand up to "errors", not to punish them with hate, but to learn from and to grow with them.

[patrice]

51. Sat nam!

[SunsetDreams]

57. Locking

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