Waffle House murderer - what would you like to happen to him?

[Doodley]

I would be interested to see your views.

Assuming he is found guilty and it is shown he has had long-term dangerous mental health issues, what would you like to happen to him?

1/ Prison for life because he deserves punishment and the people need to be protected.

2/ Death sentence because he deserves to die for killing others.

3/ Mental institution because that's where he should have been anyway and the system failed.

4/ An alternative to the options above.

[MineralMan]

1. I'd like for the justice system to make that decision.

That's what I'd like.

I'd like it if people not involved in his trial didn't speculate on how he should be punished. We have a system for that. Let's use it.

[Doodley]

13. Maybe but don't you think it would be interesting to see what people think about this?

[MineralMan]

18. No, not really.

We hear that every time. Some want to kill him. Some want to lock him up and throw away the key. Some think he should be in a mental hospital.

Not a single one of those people will be involved in his trial. Not one.

It's simple. He'll be charged and tried. Then, when he's convicted, which he certainly will be, what happens will be decided.

What possible benefit is there to jabbering about what should happen to him?

Total waste of time.

[Doodley]

23. Please don't diss other people's threads. If you don't like this thread, don't reply. Thank you.

[MineralMan]

25. I'm not really good at taking that kind of advice.

You post a thread, you're going to get replies. You got mine. Frankly, it's posts I don't like that generally prompt me to reply.

Yours qualifies. We have a system of criminal justice. It will act. Beyond that, DUers have no valid input to offer as to how it should rule.

If you post, people will reply. You don't get to tell them they can't. Sorry.

[SWBTATTReg]

35. Right on! nt

[brooklynite]

43. By this response, you also feel that no discussion on the issue of Impeachment should occur?

We have a system of Congressional decision-making. It will act. Beyond that, DUers have no valid input to offer as to how it should rule.

[Doodley]

44. You said this thread was a total waste of time. You dissed my thread. Please don't

pretend you didn't.

[shraby]

47. I'm witcha Mineral Man

[LisaM]

38. I don't think he dissed the thread.

Essentially, he answered with the fourth choice, and besides, why start a thread if you don't want a discussion?

I agree with MM that it's in the hands of the legal system now. I don't think the rest of us should assume the role of judge and jury. We're not Puritans.

[Doodley]

40. He said the thread was a total waste of time. That is dissing a thread.

[LisaM]

45. No, he said arguing over theoretics was a waste of time.

Plus, you kept pressing him, what do you expect?

LOL.

[Doodley]

51. That is what this thread is - theoretics, as are many threads.

[USALiberal]

71. LOL, read more about "Discussion Boards"! nt

[Old Vet]

98. You have it complelety backwards Doodley IMO............

[Doodley]

101. Please explain. Just saying "you have it completely backwards," without any explanation

doesn't mean a lot. I thank you for your input.

[Old Vet]

105. Running out door to Dr Appt, Will answer when I return............

[Tipperary]

37. This is a discussion forum.

Nothing wrong with this op.

[Doodley]

42. Thank you very much for saying so.

[MineralMan]

65. An OP that I replied to.

I didn't alert on it. I replied to it. Nothing wrong with that, either.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Seems Beneath You Dude!

Fairly petty and completely unexpected.

[jodymarie aimee]

14. Agree with MM

your post sounds like a vengeful post......something FOX would run with.....this is NOT who we are.

[Doodley]

20. Nothing vengeful. I don't believe in the death penalty. I also don't believe dangerous

mentally ill people should be in prison. I do believe that we need to be protected, however. All I am doing is asking what other people think.

[jodymarie aimee]

22. Do you hear Emma and David Hogg

saying things like this....NO...learn from them and stop it . You are trying to rile people up.

[bronxiteforever]

24. +1

[Doodley]

26. I haven't heard them ask for the death penalty. I pretty much agree with everything I have heard

them say. I am interested in the substance of what people have to say about this. If you don't like this thread, I am sorry.

[MineralMan]

27. +100

[Fla_Democrat]

74. W.W.D.H.D. ?

[msongs]

62. you asked and he answered. that,s how discussion boards work. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Prison for life

[Rorey]

3. I have to agree with Mineral Man. However...

I hope that his father is held accountable if it's determined that he did return the weapons to him.

[Aristus]

4. Prison for life.

GenPop.

[jberryhill]

5. I don't understand the question

You start with "assuming he is found guilty" and include the option of "mental institution".

He may not be competent to stand trial in the first place.

If he is determined to be insane, that is different from "being found guilty".

[Doodley]

15. The questions are just to see what people think. Sorry if I made it too complicated!

[PJMcK]

103. Your question was based on emotion

From his posts, jberryhill almost always reads things from a strictly legal perspective. He's often instructive and informative. I trust his legal opinions as being educated and informed.

[PJMcK]

104. I had a feeling you'd make a distinction!

The OP's question is emotionalism.

[hlthe2b]

6. depends on the mental eval. If "legally insane" lock in high security mental insitution until and

unless he becomes competent to serve trial and then a life sentence in prison upon conviction, but with regular mental health evaluation and appropriate segregation from others, if there is a doubt.

I do not, in any way think these extremist racist beliefs, whether part of his mental health issues or not, should be allowed to propagate to others. So no internet access and monitored access with others.

[Doodley]

16. I like your thoughtful answer and agree.

[LanternWaste]

7. Numbers two and (if found applicable) three.

Numbers two and (if found applicable) three.

[tenderfoot]

8. Prison for life

eom

[mythology]

9. Assuming your assumptions

Mental health facility.

But I wouldn't presume those at this point.

[Hoyt]

10. Want to see him charged with a Hate Crime. If his defense is mental illness, fine let the judge

or jury decide.

Then, I want the families of those young people who were killed to sue the gun-loving dad, the NRA and other gun lobbying and marketing organizations, gun manufacturers, gun dealers, and anyone else involved in this mess.

Then, I want the next victims to do the same.

First time some white wing gun-lover says, "You can't sue when a product does what it's made for works," I want someone to slap them with a law suit and law enforcement to take their mythical "right" to own guns away for being too stupid to own guns.

[MosheFeingold]

19. What's the hate crime?

I know zero about the victims or his motivation.

All I have is he's apparently a bit crazy and probably on meth.

[Hoyt]

29. Killed 4, all Black or Brown. Good enough for me, how about you?

[Doodley]

53. It certainly looks that way, plus he was allegedly a member of a far-right group.

[MosheFeingold]

59. And (not allegedly)

Has complained that Taylor Swift was stalking him and had hacked his phone and computer.

And tried to break into the White House (while Trump was president).

It's a bit like the Parkland shooter. More than half of his victims were Jewish. Did that make the attack a hate crime?

Or just luck of the draw?

[northoftheborder]

11. Yes - father needs to be questioned and held accountable.

[Doodley]

54. I agree in principle, but it might be a hard case to prove that the father did anything wrong.

[Straw Man]

94. Not really.

As I understand the situation, the father provided firearms to someone who was legally barred from possessing them. That's a crime.

[Doodley]

95. You are right. I had not realized the father has already admitted doing that.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. I want his dad in prison for life.

[bettyellen]

32. Agreed his father needs to be arrested today. He obviously shares his sons distain for the laws.

Sue the family into oblivion.

[flibbitygiblets]

78. +1 The dad's highly culpable here and should be made an example of.

As for the shooter himself, the justice system will determine whether he's sane or criminally responsible for his actions.

What I WOULD like is for the media and politicians to have an honest discussion about why the word "terrorist" only seems to apply to muslims and never "christians".

[unblock]

17. i would not like him sentenced to death because i do not believe the *government* deserves the right

to kill its subjects. it's not about what criminals deserve. no government should have this power. it's a recipe for corruption and tyranny.


if he's competent, prison for a very long time, likely life or the equivalent.

if he's incompetent, mental institution.

either way, he should not be released back into the public for a very long time, most likely not ever.

[Doodley]

30. Agree 100%. Thanks for a comprehensive answer.

[gratuitous]

21. A very stern talking to

Because Young Travis needs to know that he's in Big Trouble Now, Mister. I hope the authorities pull their frowniest faces, and take his guns away from him. At least the guns that that horrible blah man didn't take away from him already (and why isn't that gun-grabber behind bars?). Then they should give the guns back to Young Travis' dad with a really stern warning that he shouldn't give them back to his boy for reals this time.

Hasn't this poor family suffered enough?

Expect to see any or all of these dumbass talking points made by the dumbasses at the NRA before the month is over.

[Doodley]

55. Wouldn't surprise me if that happens.

[Laffy Kat]

28. Even though he seemed to understand right from wrong...

Something is definitely not right with this guy. From what I know now: the father is as guilty as his son for giving son his guns back (what WAS he thinking!). I guess I still don't know enough. I'm opposed to the DS, however.

[Doodley]

33. I agree about the DS. The murderer may have been very manipulative or threatening

to the father. It does make one wonder though, how much is mental illness and how much from terrible parenting and parental examples.

[Laffy Kat]

41. But the naked thing....

He could have been plotting for an insanity case all along, I just sort of doubt it. He's probably mentally ill.

[Doodley]

46. Good point. I never thought of that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Tried like any other criminal.

He doesn't sound like a model of sanity but his behavior suggests that he's not legally insane, meaning he didn't understand the nature of his acts or because of his mental illness was unable to conform his behavior to the requirements of the law. If he's found guilty, which is quite likely, he should be convicted to life imprisonment.

[Doodley]

36. Good answer. But I would have thought that the fact that he was naked means something

else was going on in his brain as well as the intent to kill. He doesn't sound very sane, at least during that fatal episode.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

39. Medically speaking, he very likely has some psychological problems.

But that doesn't mean he's legally insane, meaning that he could avoid criminal liability. To be found not guilty by reason of insanity (or in some states, guilty but insane), you have to be downright psychotic in the sense of not understanding what you are doing, or that what you are doing is wrong. Insanity pleas are rarely successful, and I don't think that if this guy pleads insanity it will work - because by running away and trying to avoid capture, and then asking for a lawyer once he was caught, he clearly knew he had done something illegal and wrong. These things will be used to argue against an insanity defense, probably successfully.

[Doodley]

56. Good point. I suppose if they can find evidence that he planned this in advance as well, that

would damage the insanity plea too.

[SWBTATTReg]

34. What every other murderer faces in this great country of ours...

A trial by peers who'll, if based upon the evidence presented to them, turn in a verdict of 'guilty', and then a death by a thousand needles!!!

Opps, just kidding about the needles. Prison w/ no parole. Depending upon the state, death by some means.

I don't buy the mental defect argument. Guy had enough composure to get the weapons, get the ammo, get the vehicle (and gas etc. so forth), drive there, and perform the dastardly deed.

My heart goes out to the victims and their friends and family.

[Doodley]

49. Do you think it is better in theory for him to face a harsher sentence, as far as sending out

Last edited Mon Apr 23, 2018, 05:02 PM - Edit history (1)

a clear message to other would-be shooters?

[CatMor]

48. Prison for life....

with no chance for parole.

[IronLionZion]

50. Pretend he's black and treat him accordingly

but don't shoot him on sight though. I would just like him to get the same sentence and prison time that a black person who murdered 4 people would get and no less. No parole.

His mental illness should not trump his crimes. As if people of color don't have mental illness.

So option 1, prison for life for the shooter and his father in general population with no separate special protections or privileges for being white.

[Doodley]

58. Good points. If he was African/America he would probably be dead already.

If he was a Muslim, he would be labeled a terrorist.

[SomethingNew]

52. Life w/ Parole or Mental Institution

Mental institution only if he is legally insane, of course.

I'm not an advocate for government sanctioned murder (capital punishment) or walking death sentences (life w/out parole). These are sticking points for me with politicians too. I think being pro-death penalty should disqualify a person from elected office. I'll grudgingly extend some leniency for LWOP but only if it isn't mandatory.

[Doodley]

63. I agree. Just for the fact that there are miscarriages of justice, rules out the

death penalty for me. Donald Trump called for the execution of the Central Park Five,
who were later proven to be innocent. If he had his way, they would be all be dead.
Politicians and the justice system need to lead by example. Is sentencing about retribution,
correction or protection? It cannot be only about the former. However, I think life without parole is
needed in many cases to protect the public. IMO, if somebody murders, it is too much risk for them
to be let loose, even if it is decades later.

[Tavarious Jackson]

57. Prison for life nt

[MarcA]

60. Some combination of Banishment for life,

Intrusive Medical tests and exams, Labor for life to repay community and victims,
castration and lobotomy.

[Doodley]

64. I am not sure if you are being serious. Please clarify.

[MarcA]

112. The last two are a bit satirical. The others Absolutely serious. n/t

[Devil Child]

61. Death sentence n/t

[Doodley]

68. Thank you for your reply. Do you have any reservations about the death penalty? For example,

if this was an episode resulting from a chemical imbalance? Or if the death penalty in this case meant that a similar case would be more likely to kill more people, including cops to avoid capture?

[BlueTsunami2018]

66. This case meets my death penalty criteria.

First degree murder, no chance they have the wrong guy, absolutely guilty.

It shouldn’t take twenty to thirty years to carry this out. He did it, pay the piper as soon as the gavel bangs.

The father should be charged as an accessory.

[Doodley]

69. Thank you for your reply. Do see the death penalty as retribution or to make an example to others?

[BlueTsunami2018]

85. As justice.

It’s fair payment for debts incurred, nothing more or less.

[mainstreetonce]

79. I agree

Death penalty. Life in jail for father ( if it is found he actually gave back the guns)

[heaven05]

67. death

2nd option general population in some state prison. A racist pig like this deserves to die slowly. Period. I am sick of these people looked at as "mentally ill", when a racist like this know EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!what he was doing. Kill him, slowly.

[Doodley]

70. I appreciate your reply and have a lot of respect for your opinion. It sounds like you

are saying he should suffer for what he has done. Do you think it should be the job of the justice system to inflict suffering upon others who commit heinous crimes?

[heaven05]

73. No human being

has a right to kill UNARMED human beings. A clown like this exercised his white privilege, used his weapon to kill unarmed AA. He was charged with a crime earlier in his depraved life, the White House deal, he had a weapon then. Taken away and given back. Now he has murdered innocent, unarmed people. The justice system is in place to deal with him, I will wait to see, if he lives, whether the justice system does its job. It won't inflict suffering if this clown is found guilty, but seeing as he will go to prison, he will find suffering, I hope.

[SomethingNew]

83. "No human being has a right to kill UNARMED human beings."

"So let's kill this guy now that we have him captured and disarmed! Maybe throw in some abuse and torture too so it's nice and slow! That'll teach everyone how bad he was and how good we are."

[heaven05]

89. won't teach anything

to the people who don't see the lesson people like cruz, roof and this clown are trying to teach. All his victims are black. Is there a lesson there for AA? I'm not saying I'm good because I want this POS dead, I'm saying I want him dead. period. And prison would have this POS looking over his shoulder, but the other aryan warriors will protect him as long as they can. He has lost his right to life. Why can't that be understood. Oh I forgot, generations of racist white people torturing, burning, lynching AA men, women and children are nothing. This latest last two generations, this time especially with racist cops murdering unarmed AA, male usually but not always male or adult is nothing and I as an individual should not be tired and disgusted with murder only because of skin color? Right? Just know that they will get their just reward when they die of old age, the always freed cops and dem black folks done got their 'pie in the sky', so who am I to want this POS dead now? Right? I am through dealing with the hypocrisy by being even handed. Fuck this POS, roof, cruz and any white racist cop that knows in his heart of hearts he/she is a murderer. May they all die terrified at their slow, painful demise. Won't change my mind. I've seen 'strange fruit' created by hate of skin color only. Go preach to someone else. Deaf ears here.....

[Doodley]

92. I do not agree with you, but I understand your POV and respect it. One of the problems I have

with the death penalty is that it becomes a slippery slope to those in which there is less certainty about their guilt.

[heaven05]

97. hell I have

a problem with that also, especially with all POC in prison because of lies, police coercion. I'll clarify if he is KNOWN to have killed, murdered other human beings without a doubt, kill him.

[SomethingNew]

109. That's ostensibly the standard for everyone.

Just about every juror who has ever voted for the death penalty "knew" the person committed the crimes. Even the innocent ones.

[heaven05]

111. that's that

[SomethingNew]

96. Something to consider.

Before you get too attached to capital punishment in order to take out racists, you might want to look into the history of the death penalty. It is used, and has been used, to kill black defendants and those who kill white victims. It is almost never used against white perpetrators or people who kill black victims. And before you argue it can be fixed, you should take a good hard look at the decades of failed attempts at doing exactly that dating back to 1972. You are supporting a racist program administered by racists for the purpose of killing black people, ostensibly in the name of combating racists.

[heaven05]

99. true

I'll clarify. A roof, cruz, zimmerman, this wafflehouse shooter? Kill them. You're NOT telling anything not known, by me, about how a racist culture/society has treated AA and to a lesser degree all nonwhites. I am just tired of white people taking lives into their hands and ending them, those lives taken by racist citizens and cop like we have experienced since camera phones have been in citizens hands. This shit has been going on for generations, it's going to have to stop. Or at 70 years old with a lifetime of knowing just how deeply hateful, vicious mean and racist this culture, white culture is, I can't see how it can be taken much longer with ALL AA knowing the white people around them may just kill them for no other reason than their skin color and with any lie have a good chance of walking free.

I am not supporting racist programs as you charge. If the white person is a roof, cruz, zimmerman, wilson, the wafflehouse POS, kill them. That is my clarification. Don't like it? Okay. Have a good one.

[SomethingNew]

108. You are supporting a racist institution.

Your intentions dont matter. When you support the death penalty you are complicit in an institution that has been used to systematically discriminate against and kill black people.

You need to open your eyes and look at the consequences of your beliefs.

[heaven05]

110. you need

to do the same as your counsel to me. I know what this culture, society has used the death penalty for when it comes to INNOCENT AA. Just like I know what ropes have been used for, fire has been used for, knives have been used for in relation to white hate for brown skin. Yet your naive outlook tells me a lot about consequence when it comes to racist. The man who murdered my sister, I would have volunteered to pull the lever to electrocute him if he hadn't killed himself. That's not support, that's justice. You told me nothing that will EVER change my mind about a cruz, zimmerman, wilson, roof and wafflehouse shooter or any murderer proven beyond a doubt to have killed an innocent someone else. I'll pull the lever.

[USALiberal]

72. Wow, look at the other countries that have the DP. Not a group I want to be in. nt

[bearsfootball516]

76. Make him eat Waffle House every day for the rest of his life.

[Mr. Ected]

77. Try him, psychoanalyze him, prescribe either institutionalization or penalization until he dies

Then cremate his remains and see to it that they are scattered, smothered, covered and chunked in a manner in which he or his family deem appropriate.

[flibbitygiblets]

80. What I would like is for media & politicians to open discussion about who's a "terrorist" and why

why the word "terrorist" only seems to apply to muslims and never "christians". It's a racist and xenophobic phenomenon that needs to see some sunlight in order to deal with it.

Our "law and order" president* seems no not even notice white mass shooters, nor black heroes. THAT deserves some national attention as well.

[Different Drummer]

81. I would like to see him sent somewhere where he has to wear pants all day, every day.

Wherever that is, he needs to be there.

[SomethingNew]

82. Lots of thinly veiled reference to prison abuse and rape ITT.

Sad to see DU failing to live up to common decency once again on this subject.

[LonePirate]

84. He will likely be killed in prison if sentenced there and not separated from the general population.

[Azathoth]

86. Put him in a mental institution and prosecute his father for negligent homicide

[nolabels]

87. He is obviously mentally impaired but if he wasn't............

Then I would think #4. A quick trial and if found guilty air-evac him to Syria into the center of an ISIS camp, he can claim his own sovereign citizenship there.

[Takket]

88. option 1

[Henry Krinkle]

90. Spend eternity eating at Waffle House.

Like something out of Greek mythology were the condemned is punished by the gods
in some cruel and unusual way to be repeated over... and over... and over again.

The only fate worse than that would be spending eternity eating at Applebees.
But, even the Greek god of gastronomy isn't that cruel.

[Demsrule86]

91. Mental institution.

[mvd]

93. Life in prison

He may have mental illness, and if so, the system failed again. We need both more gun control and better mental health in this country. Legally I don't think a mental illness defense would work. Appears he knew what he was doing and what the consequences of his actions were and knows why he was arrested.

[TNLib]

100. His father should get life in prison and his son should get life in a mental institution.

nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

102. What I'd like most is a fair and just trial for him, without being tried in the media or elsewhere,

and if/when it comes time to punishment, that he will not be executed but will be given whatever help he needs to become a functional human being, even if it means that he never leaves prison or an institution.

[Orsino]

106. I'd like for him and his life to be examined...

...and for us to learn something useful from it that might save lives.

[ADX]

107. LWOP...

...Life in prison without the possibility of parole.

The death penalty should be abolished...