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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Beware of this Rovian man...

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:23 PM

 

Beware of this Rovian maneuver... it is coming.

Step 1. Create a fake Romney tax return that shows something REALLY bad... zero taxes paid in 2009, offshore accounts, the works.

Step 2. Release the phony tax return to an unwilling news organization... (can't use Dan Rather this time, probably try Brian Williams).

Step 3. When unwilling news organization reports that they have received a copy of Romney's tax return and publicizes it, have some "minions" on rightwing blogs come up with the "evidence" that the return is a fake.

Step 4. Scream bloody murder about Brian Williams (or whoever) using made-up evidence against Romney. Scream left-wing media bias. Scream dirty tricks by Democrats.

Step 5. Media, embarrassed by using a phony document, backs off of story for the rest of the campaign.



We've all seen it before with Bush and National Guard, people. The way they make the "truth" go away is to pull a trick like I laid out.


You know it is coming. Be ready for when it does.


THIS is how they'll try to bury the tax return issue for all time.



Rove did this with the debate prep tape in 2000.
He did it with the Air National Guard forgeries in 2004.
He did it with the Sarah Palin emails being "hacked" in 2008.


They don't play fair. Be ready.

92 replies, 24737 views

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Arrow 92 replies Author Time Post
Reply Beware of this Rovian maneuver... it is coming. (Original post)
scheming daemons Jul 2012 OP
lostnote12 Jul 2012 #1
JaneyVee Jul 2012 #2
calimary Jul 2012 #3
Agony Jul 2012 #4
scheming daemons Jul 2012 #6
greytdemocrat Jul 2012 #9
siligut Jul 2012 #10
aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2012 #5
JDPriestly Aug 2012 #44
madokie Aug 2012 #49
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #88
madokie Aug 2012 #90
grantcart Aug 2012 #67
aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2012 #69
Blanks Aug 2012 #75
aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2012 #78
Blanks Aug 2012 #89
grantcart Aug 2012 #76
aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2012 #79
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #82
randome Jul 2012 #7
scheming daemons Jul 2012 #8
randome Jul 2012 #11
CTyankee Aug 2012 #70
Agony Jul 2012 #13
randome Jul 2012 #16
A Simple Game Jul 2012 #15
randome Jul 2012 #17
bbgrunt Aug 2012 #74
AverageJoe90 Jul 2012 #25
bluescribbler Aug 2012 #55
randome Aug 2012 #56
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #81
The Wizard Jul 2012 #34
madokie Aug 2012 #50
mopinko Aug 2012 #59
randome Aug 2012 #65
ThoughtCriminal Jul 2012 #12
madinmaryland Jul 2012 #14
spanone Jul 2012 #18
66 dmhlt Aug 2012 #54
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #19
Th1onein Jul 2012 #20
raincity_calling Aug 2012 #86
annabanana Jul 2012 #21
AverageJoe90 Jul 2012 #22
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #24
randome Jul 2012 #26
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #30
randome Jul 2012 #32
Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2012 #23
zeemike Aug 2012 #46
Johnny2X2X Jul 2012 #27
Jessy169 Jul 2012 #28
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #85
Brother Buzz Jul 2012 #29
bayareaboy Jul 2012 #31
Richard D Jul 2012 #33
Jessy169 Jul 2012 #36
AverageJoe90 Jul 2012 #41
Javaman Jul 2012 #35
KansDem Aug 2012 #51
klook Aug 2012 #87
caraher Jul 2012 #37
Drunken Irishman Jul 2012 #38
bayareaboy Jul 2012 #39
blkmusclmachine Jul 2012 #40
grahamhgreen Aug 2012 #42
JDPriestly Aug 2012 #43
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #83
JDPriestly Aug 2012 #45
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #48
Berlum Aug 2012 #47
no_hypocrisy Aug 2012 #52
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #77
liberal N proud Aug 2012 #53
raouldukelives Aug 2012 #57
12AngryBorneoWildmen Aug 2012 #58
Curmudgeoness Aug 2012 #60
louis-t Aug 2012 #61
33Greeper Aug 2012 #62
coldbeer Aug 2012 #63
kimbutgar Aug 2012 #64
skip fox Aug 2012 #66
LiberalLovinLug Aug 2012 #72
mojowork_n Aug 2012 #68
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #71
TrogL Aug 2012 #73
Zen Democrat Aug 2012 #80
arely staircase Aug 2012 #84
magnifisense Aug 2012 #91
Shiraz Aug 2012 #92

Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:34 PM

1. Great Observation and thanks for the recall....very familiar turf!!!

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:37 PM

2. How Breitbart & the RW blogosphere operates.

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:37 PM

3. Good to start putting it out there. This sounds entirely plausible.

It's just like something he'd do. Just like something he already HAS done, as you've astutely pointed out.

And you're correct about something else, too: it's EQUALLY wise always to be trying to out-think him. You have to try to stay one step ahead. Anticipate, anticipate, anticipate.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:43 PM

4. Rove bugged his own office... the diabolical shithead

and his candidate won...
JAMES MOORE: This I think is perhaps a seminal moment in Karl’s career. He all of a sudden, his candidate is sort of lagging, and he all of a sudden, Karl does, discovers on the wall of his office a bugging device. He discovers it and calls a news conference the morning of the only debate in the gubernatorial race of 1986 between Mark White, who was the incumbent and Karl’s candidate, governor Bill Cleamons who was not a goody debater.

This news covers up all the news about the debate. It leads the television newscast; I was a television reporter at that time. It was all any of us could talk about on the 6:00 and 10:00 news on the night of the debate. The debate became a secondary issue which was good for Karl’s candidate since he was a lousy debater and frequently flew offhand and angered easily, but we weren’t interested in policy and issues. We all were compelled to report on the intrigue around this bugging device.

Now, was it real? No, I don’t think it was. The F.B.I. agents and everyone else who investigated it who spoke to me and I got copies of the investigation which indicated that the battery life on the bugging device indicated that it’s been on the wall for less than an hour, had a six hour battery life that broadcasts only within half mile range.

Whoever planted it did so knowing that they would either have access to go back and change battery every six hours, or they weren’t really interested in broadcasting information in Karl’s office, they were simply interested in having that bug discovered. But it had its desired affect. Ultimately, the campaign turned around, the incumbent’s numbers flagged as a result of the distraction caused by the controversy.

from--->http://www.democracynow.org/2003/10/1/conflict_of_interest_white_house_rejects

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Response to Agony (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:45 PM

6. Yep... forgot about that... that was when Rove was first rewarded for this kind of trickery

 

...

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:49 PM

9. What bastards.

The shit they come up with...

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Response to Agony (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:49 PM

10. He is a diabolical shithead

Maybe since he has shown his hand too many times, his tricks will be less effective. I hope so.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:45 PM

5. How will they prove it's a fake tax return if they don't release a real one?

Last edited Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:49 PM - Edit history (1)

We're not dealing with fonts or typewriters as we did in the Bush AWOL story. The only way I see it working is if they release a copy of Romney's actual returns bearing the date stamp of receipt by the IRS and his signature. If Romney's real returns look completely legit and non-controversial, I'll be very surprised. I would think any scheme of this kind would only put more pressure on Romney to produce the real returns.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:56 AM

44. Yes. That ploy would only work if the existence of the tax returns were

in doubt. The only tax return that is valid is one that Romney releases and states is valid.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:37 AM

49. What I see happening is rMoney will produce the real document as the OP is saying

Heavily redacted so no one will learn anything from it as was the case with scrub and the national guard issue.

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Response to madokie (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:47 PM

88. Maybe. But as I've said before......

 

Undoubtedly, there will be at least a few skeptics no matter what. Romney cannot legally modify the original documents, and these originals are what we have been asking for all along.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #88)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 01:38 PM

90. Redacted originals is what we'll get if we get that

More black out than actual report is the thing
But what won't be blacked out willl show that karls plant is a fake and that is all that will be needed for most of the pukie and the fence setters is what I'm saying.
Joe

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 12:24 PM

67. They will have a form that was for a latter year and then when it comes out show that

it couldn't have been that year.

That is what they did with Bush's national guard memo, used a typewriter that wasn't around.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #67)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 01:53 PM

69. But won't that require Romney to release his real tax return?

Otherwise, what argument would they have that it's not reflective of the real return? It might be the wrong form but you couldn't disprove the substance without the real return. It would put even more pressure on Romney. In the Bush case there was no holy grail such as a form. There was simply a dispute over fonts and typewriters over whether his commanding officer wrote certain derogatory memos. In the Romney case there isn't a dispute over whether or not there is a tax return. There is a return and only seeing the real unredacted return could disprove a false one.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #69)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:34 PM

75. The tax return story will be secondary to the fake return story.

In Bush's case the material in the letter was never disputed. Only the authenticity of the letter that Rather had.

I think the content of the letter was damning and accurate, the content (except briefly) was not the story.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #75)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:00 PM

78. From what I recall, the substance of the Killian memo was disputed - it was the only story

Did he write it and was his opinion of Bush expressed in it one that he truly had?

His secretary backed up the content of the memos and recalled typing them but she couldn't verify whether the specific copy that Rather had was genuine. Unfortunately, Killian was the only person who could have verified the letter and the accuracy of the content and he was dead. The implication was that Killian never wrote it. In the case of the tax returns we're not dealing with a dead witness and the issue wouldn't be that the tax return never existed. The only rebuttal to the allegation of a fake return is the real one. In the case of Killian's letter, the right alleged it never existed and there was no need to show a real letter by Killian. In the case of a fake Romney return, the best evidence to prove it is a real return.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #78)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:51 PM

89. Yeah, that's how I remember it now that you point it out.

Just because we haven't figured out what angle they are going to use to diffuse the potential uproar when Romney releases his taxes; doesn't mean that they don't have a plan.

It might be prudent to expect a different plan.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #69)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:42 PM

76. they will be able to prove that it was a faked form with a counterfeit form that can be proven not

to have existed at the time, undermining the document without having to produce their own.

However by exposing it ahead of time it will be much more difficult.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #76)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:05 PM

79. But how does Romney get around the requirement of showing the real return?

So the fake return shows zero taxes paid. Romney shows it's a fake form and says "but I did pay taxes". The issue is the content of the return. How does Romney rebut the substance of the fake return and the clamor for the real one? Any claim that the fake form is inaccurate requires production of the real return. He simply can't get round that.

So if someone produces a return showing Romney paid no taxes, with a fake form attached, it will show someone duped the media. It can't put the issue of Romney's taxes to rest as long as the real returns are out there. This isn't the same as the Killian case where a letter contrary to the Killian letter couldn't be produced because it was claimed it never existed. Frankly, I'd think Romney would want to avoid anything that brings up the issue of tax returns, even fake ones.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #69)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:22 PM

82. And such a manuever could very well backfire on him.

 

Some of the low-info voters might buy into it, but many people will likely be somewhat skeptical, especially us Dems and independents.
Rove can't quite weasel his way outta this, and even if enough people buy into it there's still plenty of other things Romney will need to explain.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:47 PM

7. If Rove had his shit together, the GOP would not have this ongoing clusterfuck with Romney.

 

Rove got lucky once with Dan Rather. He is not the diabolical genius some make him out to be.

In fact, the more you try to believe that, the more power you cede to him.

After Palin and now Romney, how can anyone think Rove is calling the shots?

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:49 PM

8. Not necessarily Rove himself... but someone who has the same lack of character.

 



He's taught them how to play dirty.

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:51 PM

11. The Obama Campaign is not so easily deluded, though.

 

This is a new era. It's becoming more and more clear that the GOP is declining. At long last.

Not that any of us can afford to let our guards down!

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:01 PM

70. Plus, I don't know if Brian Williams or any other TV news person at his level would be so

easily fooled. I think the top people are VERY wary of something like this being sprung on them. Fool me once...

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:58 PM

13. "Rove got lucky once" tell that to Don Siegelman, Pete McCrae and Mike Moeller

never take your eye off of the snake

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Response to Agony (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:03 PM

16. Oh, I agree, don't be lax.

 

But if you keep your eye on an impotent Karl Rove, someone else may be able to slip something in.

We should not let our guard down on any of them! But I think it's clear that no one is running the GOP today. Palin and Romney are not parts of some master plan. They are proof that the GOP is in decline.

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:02 PM

15. Rove's only trick is to sink lower than anyone could anticipate. n/t

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:06 PM

17. We have a killer campaign machine this time around, though.

 

Much smarter people.

What worked in the previous era won't work today.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:42 PM

74. ...and because we don't think like them, we never do anticipate

where/how they will attack next. The problem is not the Dem campaign, but the willingness of the corporate media to use these distractions to control coverage and info.

The same thing happens with topics on DU: they are dominated and flooded by whatever current flap is going on.

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:22 PM

25. Somehow, I'm not sure I can disagree with most of this.

 

Romney has really, really, fucked himself, and his party, over good these past few months......he can't win without the election being rigged.(I just disagree on ONE thing: Rove is a damn good schemer, sadly.)

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:22 AM

55. RMoney had plenty of help

Ron Paul, Michelle Bachman, Newt Gingrich, The Donald, Rick Santorum, etc.

le's face it. This year's crop ofm GOPig candidates weere not ready for prime time.

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Response to bluescribbler (Reply #55)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:26 AM

56. They were not ready in 2008, either. See the pattern?

 

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:19 PM

81. And they're even, a LOT more desperate now.

 

Even if the tax thing manages to work for them somehow, it won't be nearly enough. The independents(I hope) are often a lot more aware than the Repubs take them for, especially the left-leaning ones and most of the centrists.

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:44 PM

34. A lack of ethics and morals

does not constitute genius. Rove is a treasonous criminal.

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #34)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:41 AM

50. I agree with that

All I could add is Rove is a treasonous criminal BASTARD.

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:11 AM

59. are you sure you are in the right place?

sticking up for karl rove?

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Response to mopinko (Reply #59)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:41 AM

65. Uh...what?

 

Yeah, right, I love me some Rove!

The GOP is dying before our very eyes. Don't give them power over us by seeing Rove as some kind of deity. He was never more than a schoolyard bully given power by another schoolyard bully.

We are winning the battle. As the Mayans predicted, 2012 is the end of the world -for Republicans!

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:51 PM

12. Predicted this one a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=960037

They would have to find an outlet that is pretty gullible (not hard) and create a credible source for the documents. I'm guessing it will be alleged to be someone who was in the McCain campaign since they are one of the few known to have seen them.

Watch for things like obscure pages of forms that didn't exist in that year's returns, traced signatures, etc..



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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 08:58 PM

14. Team Obama understands this and is being proactive.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:07 PM

18. rove learned at the feet of one of the most vile and dangerous political consultants...

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Response to spanone (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:46 AM

54. Lee Atwater: “You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Nigger, nigger, nigger.’”

This is still hard to see in print, but that's exactly what Lee Atwater said. So it's clear Rove was a star pupil in learning his lessons of hate-mongering from Atwater:

“You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Nigger, nigger, nigger,’ ” said Atwater. “By 1968, you can’t say ‘nigger’ — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/opinion/25herbert.html?_r=2

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:12 PM

19. Step 2A. The same DUers who believed Weiner's denials,

and who still believe that the 1973 Rather memo was genuine, post repeatedly, insistently, and vociferously that the horrible looking returns are definitely genuine.

Step 2B. Some DUers point out possible red flags and express doubts about the veracity of the documents.

Step 2C. The DUers from step 2B are vehemently ridiculed and accused of "defending Romney" by the DUers from step 2A. Flamewars and PPRings ensue.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:14 PM

20. I think Rove graduated from those little pranks......to murder.

Remember Raymond Lemme? He was investigating the vote rigging and he ended up dead in a motel room he had already checked out of. Supposedly a suicide, and he left a note, in which he didn't say goodbye, I love you, or I'm sorry to his only daughter. How fortuitious for Bush and his boys, since Lemme had told a good friend that he was going to bust this investigation wide open and it was going to go all the way to the top.

Rove isn't a shithead. He's a fucking murderer, in my opinion.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #20)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:30 PM

86. Don't Forget GOP vote rigging consultant Mike Connell

Another "timely" death (murder?) was the mysterious plane crash
that killed Rove's IT guru Michael Connell. Shortly after Connell
was deposed in a lawsuit against Rove et al that alleged
vote flipping in the 2004 Ohio election, Connel died in a small plane crash.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:14 PM

21. forewarned = forearmed .. But this trick is getting a

bit long in the tooth.

I doubt that rove is a one trick pony and we have to be on our toes throughout this season...

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:18 PM

22. I'm not quite buying this scenario, TBH. Not yet, anyhow.

 

Yes, Rove is indeed quite the scheming Bond villainish neer-do-well, but to be honest, if Romney had nothing to hide, I strongly suspect he would have released his unadulterated tax returns some weeks ago. That hasn't yet happened. That, and the fact that McCain admitted that the tax returns played a significant role in Romney's being passed over for the VP nomination......I just don't smell a conspiracy here(and, admittedly, I'm a bit of a conspiracy buff).

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:22 PM

24. No. Romney *does* have something to hide.

But when the horrible fake tax returns are revealed to be fake, everyone backs off and the issue goes away. He never needs to release the genuine returns. This is a perfectly plausible plan.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:25 PM

26. It's only a 'perfectly plausible plan' if we want to be afraid.

 

Being afraid gives them more power over us. We must stay on our toes but Rove doesn't have shit and Team Obama clearly has their act together.

It's a new era. The sun is setting on the GOP at long last.

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Response to randome (Reply #26)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:37 PM

30. Not afraid. Sceptical and vigilant (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:40 PM

32. Okay, then!

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:21 PM

23. That dog won't hunt...

or to use another metaphor, you can't go back to that well.

Only a complete idiot (even more than normal) would take the bait after what happened to Dan Rather. They may be fatuous talking heads, but they are fatuous talking heads with a keen survival instinct.

Won't happen.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #23)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:37 AM

46. I am not so sure that they can't find someone to take the bait.

The right wing rewards generously the ones that help them do an operation....yep some reporter gets embarrassed but he could still do will in some corporate structure.
If you have the money you can buy what you want...anything you want.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:26 PM

27. Wikileaks

Where is Wikileaks when you need them. Get his tax returns and publish them, end of story.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:28 PM

28. Just one really good lie could turn this election upside down

When Romney ran for governor, he was behind in the polls, then he pulled a couple of lies out of his ass and spent huge amounts of money spreading those lies. The timing was more or less perfect -- it turned the tide for him and he won.

From Wikipedia: He rebounded with ads that accused O'Brien of being a failed watchdog for state pension fund losses in the stock market and that associated her husband, a former lobbyist, with the Enron scandal During the election he contributed over $6 million – a state record at the time – to the nearly $10 million raised for his campaign overall. Romney was elected governor on November 5, 2002, with 50 percent of the vote to O'Brien's 45 percent.

Just saying, Rove is like a poisonous snake in the grass. You can't stop worrying about him or what dirty tricks his demented mind has come up with. A really good lie -- a stinking rotton smear brilliantly presented -- timed perfectly with a couple hundred million dollars to spread the manure around the country, that COULD shake things up.

But I've got faith in the Obama team. They know what they're up against. Here's hoping the worst possible Karl Rove inspired nightmare scenario does not come true.

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Response to Jessy169 (Reply #28)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:30 PM

85. Well.....

 

Last edited Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:04 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't know the exact specifics of how the Mass. election went, but no matter what Rove does, it will take far more than a tax trick to turn this election around.

No matter the case, the truth is, about the only way the GOP can win this year is with election theft. They did it in '00 and '04 and they'll try again this year, too. Otherwise, they're already done for, and only a massive series of screw-ups and/or extremely low turnout not seen in perhaps, ever, on the part of the Dems, will give them a chance to win legally.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:28 PM

29. What IBM selectric font will rove use?

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:38 PM

31. I don't think I'm go with that one ...


It does sound plausible, I think rove is hanging out there because he don't what to do and he hates Mittens like every body else, and would probably have this election over sooner than later. Did I tell that I think everybody including dogs hate Mittens.

Rove would hate sitting this one out, but let us face it. He really don't play three level chess too well.

Folks from the other side liked Bush and even Palin. Did I tell you, I think they hate Mittens.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:43 PM

33. Far more damaging . . .

. . . and something that has concerned me is, what if there's absolutely nothing wrong with "W"illards tax returns. That would look bad for us. I so hope I'm just a tad paranoid.

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Response to Richard D (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:58 PM

36. I also thought about that

Romney knew ten years ago that he would be running for president, so why wouldn't he make sure his tax returns were all squeaky clean, knowing that someday he would be asked to lay them on the table? That makes sense to me and to you. But what we've seen of Romney demonstrates that his arrogance is in a class all it's own. And if there is one true God that Romney worships, that is money. Given Romney's mental make-up, I finally came to the conclusion that he's just figured all along that he push himself off on the American people as the God he believes himself to be, and all would lay down before him. He seems very confused that people are actually disagreeing with him and pointing out his lies -- nobody has ever done that before. I think there's absolute disaster for Romney in those tax returns, if there are any tax returns that is. That's my take.

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Response to Jessy169 (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:57 PM

41. One thing certain people seem to have forgotten.......

 

Is that the McCain campaign took a look at Romney's taxes. And they vetted him, partly thanks to that. Something is definitely amiss.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:52 PM

35. how to stunt Rove.

Claim that anything resembling a fake 2009 income tax return will be tantamount to falsifying government records.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 05:36 AM

51. That's my thought, too...

If Romney, by way of Rove, produces a fake document, wouldn't that prompt the IRS to conduct an investigation? Memos are one thing, but government documents are quite another.

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Response to KansDem (Reply #51)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:12 PM

87. Correct. So they'd have to use an untraceable source.

Not sure even Turdblossom can pull off something that slick. I sure would like to see him try, get caught, and go to jail, though.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 10:31 PM

37. Yup

In fact, I refrained posting this when I thought of it simply so I wouldn't worry that one of Rmoney's people got inspired from anything I said - yeah, I can be paranoid!

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 10:36 PM

38. I'll wait, but I'll throw $100 down right now nothing does come...

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #38)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 10:57 PM

39. well if it were betting with Mitt


You would have to Pony up $10,000

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:04 PM

40. I'd expect said "news" organization to be in on the fake return.

 

I don't trust the Media. They're bought, lock-stock-and-barrel.


Do you know about Operation Northwoods? You should.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:11 AM

42. Kick tweeted

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:54 AM

43. Won't work. No one will accept a tax return unless it has been officially

released by Romney.

It is quite likely that someone has seen the or a tax return. What we want is Romney's tax returns -- at least 10 years of them.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:27 PM

83. Maybe, but.....

 

This might indeed work on some of the low-information voters, though......on the other hand, I don't expect a majority of Independents to buy Rove's story, and will at least by skeptical of anything he claims.

And yes, what we want are the REAL tax returns going back to at least a decade or so......nothing scrubbed or sanitized. We want the ORIGINAL documents, as they were originally filed, and we need to demand that.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:59 AM

45. More likely -- Romney will release "amended," that is, altered

tax returns that leave out the sources of some of his income or some other vital information.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #45)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:31 AM

48. And even that might well backfire on him. nt

 

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:28 AM

47. Karma is inescapable

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 05:38 AM

52. The only other individual who was King of the Fake-Out was Andy Kaufman.

Rove is really sublime at his craft.

What I expect is a little different from yours: Rove will release the true factual tax return and then claim it's fake.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #52)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:49 PM

77. Admittedly, this, too, is plausible.

 

Which is why we do need to be vigilant.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 05:58 AM

53. The problem, IT WILL WORK with too many American voters.

Too many will fall for the stunt as they did with bu$h and with Palin.

IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE ENOUGH TO CLOSE THE CASE!

It is reality, their dirty tricks work.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:33 AM

57. I think your right on the money and I find your handle very apropos.

A perfect description of the minds and deceptions they use to lead the herds astray.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:50 AM

58. You've got a perfect username and I'm right there with you.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:40 AM

60. Don't warn us, warn the MSM.

They are the ones who would be the scapegoats....although it will be to everyone's detriment.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:00 AM

61. Romney's new ad is criticizing Obama for saving the auto industry!

I think this will backfire big.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:02 AM

62. No time to be complacent, people.

GOTV!

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:02 AM

63. scheming daemons, you have been hacked ...

Tennessee lawmaker says Obama may stage fake assassination Because of
posters like you, scheming daemons, the Tea Party starts making stuff up. What is good for the goose is good for the gander!!!

Oh, I liked your post and learned from it. I feel Tennessee state Rep. Kelly Keisling
should be investigated for his input ...

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:34 AM

64. The thing about Rove is that we are watching him more closely and he knows we are breathing down his

neck.Twitter, Facebook etc are now the "new" news media. These and other social media sites break news more than the MSM. We are all watching out for Karl's shit unlike in 2004 we didn't have this social media. Karl is devious but now we know he devious and we are really to pounce if he tries his conniving tricks. Basically he's been pegged for the weasel he is. Do you see the rmoney campaign using him? No, he is damaged goods but still a useful tool with his pacs. Fortunately the IRS is starting to took a look at his "social welfare" pacs. Maybe Karl will blow up before the election. We can only hope.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:50 AM

66. Another possible (parallel) scenario:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021055704#post13

I don't think this is the case, but we might do well to consider it as a possibility so we might be prepared in case.

If Romney had this information leaked, he might have considered the following scenario:

1. With the leak, the demands for him to release his returns increase dramatically.

2. Since he can no longer ignore the demands, he releases returns which may look bad but not half as bad as the leak suggested they would.

3. When the facts are seen to be more positive than those projected, Romney has somewhat inoculated himself on this issue and the case of the returns can be overcome in several news cycles.

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Response to skip fox (Reply #66)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:39 PM

72. that's a great observation

And maybe they already have!

A "Bain insider" whispers in Harry Reid's ear about Mitt not paying ANY taxes for 10 years.

Harry thinks he's tapped a gold mine and shares this with the world.

(Or if you are a cynic, you may believe Reid is doing this on purpose for a fellow Mormon millionaire because Reid still wants to win the election, but not at the expense of skewed tax loopholes that he also uses)

Either way....it might work out with Mittens showing that it he HAS paid taxes during that whole time, and even if it is 15% and he lied about being the Chief Officer etc....the whole Bain story dies.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 12:48 PM

68. You're right, this is exactly what they do

Even when there is no specific source, or any "damaging story" to be discredited.

Screaming bloody murder is step 1, then it's on to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Step back to look at the candidacy of Romney, period.

Nobody likes him, not even Republicans.
He's a terrible candidate.
That should be it, period, end of discussion.

But when anyone criticizes anything he's done, or second-guesses his viability as a
candidate at all, what comes back is that tsunami of PR and BS about "the failed
Presidency of Ba......and..... yadda, yadda, yadda ...... jobs, .... the economy...
and... jobs."

It's not just a tactic, it's what their whole strategy is based on.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:22 PM

71. If this happens, watch Romney's reaction VERY carefully

If he doesn't IMMEDIATELY SUE or otherwise seek investigation and prosecution of the "leaker"..... smell a rat.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:41 PM

73. you probably mean "unwitting"

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:28 PM

80. He even broke into his own office in Texas and blamed it on Ann Richards!

He's the kind of guy who should be locked up.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:27 PM

84. they don't play fair and they will do some underhanded stuff but

after the rather thing and given the very very confidential nature of tax returns i doubt seriously that any msm outlet or known liberal blogger would touch any Romney tax return that didn't come from romney.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 02:26 PM

91. Great observation.

I hope Rachel reads DU and brings up this subject on her show. We have to get the media talking about a possible Rove ploy. If the media get on it now, Rove won't be able to carry out that maneuver. The tax returns issue and Bain are both hurting Romney. We have to make sure both stories continue to be addressed.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:25 PM

92. They did today on :

Stephanie Miller

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