General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSeriously - Does anybody here remember EVERYTHING they have ever posted
on a social media platform?
Can anybody here say that they are proud of or that they agree with EVERYTHING they have posted in the last 3 years? What about the last 5 years? How about the last 10 years?
If you are proud of and still agree with everything you posted on social media platforms then you need to STFU and go find your own planet to live on...
hlthe2b
(103,076 posts)wanting not only their pound of flesh (which I think they've gotten), but her head on a pike.
Until some come to realize the truth of points brought up by LGBT advocates with whom she shared a very constructive panel this morning on AM JOY and that even the strongest LGBT advocates may fail a uncompromising "purity" test, they only embolden their true opponents. But, i think this small seemingly unmoveable group has to come to this realization on their own. Every thread, every post that has tried to discuss this essential truth, has only led some to "dig in their heels" and divide the DU community at large.
yardwork
(62,084 posts)It's unfortunate that in the well-intentioned effort to support Joy here on DU and on other websites, the hurtful impact of the words themselves were unjustly dismissed.
I believe that this attack on Joy by digging up old posts and tweets from a decade ago was unjustified trouble-making, an effort to divide Democrats.
That said, I'm very disappointed in the many responses, here and elsewhere, that dismissed the words themselves as "nothing." Again, gay people were thrown under the bus, even while many of us were writing in support of Joy. Very disappointing.
hlthe2b
(103,076 posts)of the comments attributed to her. I think you are right that as the discussions went on a good bit of frustration took over and many failed to acknowledge that as the heart of the issue.
Still, it seems to me that for a small few, NO apology, NO explanation, NO discussion has thus far shown to be sufficient.
We need each other to fight for serious issues--some that impact us individually directly and some because of our shared ideals that are under attack by far more hostile and harmful opponents and actions... Whether we end up divided as a course of our own failed efforts or as the result of outside manipulation, the effect is the same. I'd hope we could all come to that realization.
dsc
(52,212 posts)it isn't gay people's fault that those defenders dismissed those words. I am more than a little sick of every time a straight person does something wrong it is somehow a gay person's fault.
hlthe2b
(103,076 posts)yardwork
(62,084 posts)I was making a general comment and didn't intend my post to be personally directed at you at all.
hlthe2b
(103,076 posts)yardwork
(62,084 posts)Good to see you, dsc. I know how committed you are to teaching young people.
Ms. Toad
(34,437 posts)(1) she didn't say those things, but
(2) if she did, they weren't that bad
Anyone asserting that the statements, in and of themselves, were harmful was attacked, accused of lying, had their words twisted, etc.
I'm fine with Joy's apology. I'm not find with DUers insisting that the content of those posts were not that bad - and with bullying LGBT DU members who were naming legitimate concerns, and continuing to post snide digs at us on this matter.
S.E. TN Liberal
(508 posts)I would like to believe I have matured, and my opinions and ways of speaking to people have changed.
greymattermom
(5,756 posts)So I've always posted pictures of flowers and my gorgeous children and grandchildren on Facebook. DU is the only place folks might have an idea of my opinions, and even here I keep it toned down. I've also told my children to never say anything negative or even to say they are sick on social media. Your next job may depend on it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But were instead the result of a nefarious hacking for which there is no evidence?
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)If reminded, I could probably remember my past posts. And, if I couldnt specifically remember, then I think I would come off looking foolish by playing the old my account was hacked card. That was the only issue with her.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Don't insult my intelligence with that - YOU are trying to move the goalposts!
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)If some one confronts you with something embarrassing/horrible you may have said/posted in the past that is unlike something you would say today, it would be stupid to own it without checking to see if you actually said/posted it!
Your rationale about instantly confessing to and owning everything attributed to you is extremely naive...
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)This isnt about remembering what was posted.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)This is about actual evidence her posts were manipulated.
They were photoshopped at the very minimum.
The problem with appeasing the mob by apologizing even when falsely accused, is that it will ever be enough.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I didnt even really comment on this until today, honestly I am much more annoyed by her apparent lack of candor than anything she wrote on a blog.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)Honestly, this game played by people who don't do their homework and repeat right wing sources is just getting old
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)That is something you should probably address. It wasn't a personal attack
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Now those of DU that have given so much crap to fellow DU members for rightfully calling her out for using the lame hacking excuse need to step up and own something on your part imo.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)and that is literally what was going on here. Spread right wing lies, quote right wing sources and then fail to prove your assertions, then own up to it. Pretending that the women being accused this weekend of things were doing what the right wing mob said imo is pure ratfuckery. Owning up would be great. We'll wait. Or does Breitbart and every other right winger source need to present a script first? Or just another badly photoshopped screencap by a bot on Twitter.
Every DUer who correctly called out the right wing and have been doing so for years now, should continue exposing the folks here to harm Dems.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)I held the position that Reid should own her past statements and she should not have used the lame my account was hacked excuse. The only talking point I quoted was Reids herself. She claimed Saturday that the cyber expert she hired found no evidence of hacking. Common sense is my only talking point.
moriah
(8,312 posts)Though calling HuffPo RW was a little nuts. Not this thread, either, to clarify.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)have crossed a line. That is what is happening here. The outrage pretends to ignore the sourcing, either deliberately or ignorantly.
marble falls
(59,023 posts)kpete
(72,177 posts)You are SO funny!
peace,
kp
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)moose65
(3,181 posts)I'm gay, and I can remember that there were a LOT of posts and comments similar to those attributed to Joy that were flying around in 2007. Even though it wasn't that long ago, we were still deep in the Bush era, and gay marriage was only legal in one state (although more were soon to come). It was also before the Facebook era, too. In a sense, it was a different world back then. Many people whom we consider allies were probably cracking similar jokes back then! I won't say that her posts don't matter, because I find them tone-deaf and typical "straight-splaining" (did I just coin a new word??)
A question: I don't think I consider it homophobic to speculate on someone's sexuality. Many of those closet cases like Mark Foley, I could take one look at them and tell they were gay. Is it bad to just point out the possibility? Aaron Schock is obviously gay - am I homophobic for just acknowledging that?
hlthe2b
(103,076 posts)politicos. Both John Avarosis and Mike Rogers were doing so and defending doing so at the time. While there were differences of opinions on the appropriateness of doing so, I felt like the discussions were helpful and somewhat "evolutionary" in how many perceived this, even if some were occasionally tone deaf. This article was published in 2004, but I seem to remember similar discussion well through 2007 or later.
https://gaycitynews.nyc/gcn_327/outingoncapotolhill.html
Whisper campaigns about the sexuality of federal legislators are part of Capitol Hill culture, but the FMA has motivated some people to expose the personal lives of others in a way that was once considered out of bounds. This June, a flyer circulated at the citys Pride festival urging people to e-mail the names of closeted gay lawmakers and staffers to an online address.
The increasing anti-gay rhetoric broadcast by supporters of the FMA also seems to have hardened attitudes of activists who otherwise would take a less militant approach to legislative lobbying.
Its outrageous and despicable that gay people would help members of Congress pass an anti-gay amendment to the Constitution, Aravosis said in an interview, signaling a shift from his March efforts merely to facilitate a discussion about outing. People like that deserve our scorn and public disapproval, at the very least.
Mike Rogers, a former development director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, now self-employed, has begun phoning the offices of lawmakers who support the FMA and also employ gay staffers, whether closeted or out. Rogers tactic is to first request to speak with the legislator to query them about their support of the FMA despite supervising gay employees. Rogers said he has been unsuccessful in getting any lawmaker on the phone, but has reached senior staff in several offices. In those conversations, he said, he has outed closeted staffers to their colleagues.
dsc
(52,212 posts)second, many of those in the post in question were not at all like the people being outed here. Clay Aiken, Tom Cruise, Oprah Winfrey, and Justice Robert's son are not in the position of passing laws that are anti gay.
hlthe2b
(103,076 posts)DU, which in its fullness, brought about a lot more understanding--on both sides of the issue.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Iggo
(47,742 posts)Thieves think everyone's thieves.
Racists think everyone's racists.
And they all say the same thing: "I'm just being honest."
dsc
(52,212 posts)but just like all people are at least a bit racist thanks to our society all people are also at least a bit homophobic for the same reason. Without the quote I can't say he meant it in this way but if he did then he would be correct.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)Is a universal human failing. Claiming bad things on your blog are the product of hacking is just weak. Trying to hold on to the hacking claim, without evidence, by saying you don't believe you wrote that is pathetic.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)brooklynite
(95,716 posts)I have ALWAYS thought about my posts before I post them. (nb - I don't hide my identity online, so it's in my interest to make sure my public presence is a responsible one). Hence I've never posted anything that was angry or emotional, and certainly nothing intolerant.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,620 posts)The one before those two was about my dog. Before that....kinda fuzzy.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)The posters here at DU and everyone else who are unable to build a bridge and get over the Joy Ann Reid and similar kerfuffles and who are always so ready to knee-cap Dem and progressive supporters and pols are a part of the reason while Dem and progressive messaging gets squelched!
But I will keep voting Dem and progressive despite you! And I will always be willing to at least hear what the objects of your scorn are saying...
PDittie
(8,322 posts)"If you are proud of and still agree with everything you posted on social media platforms then you need to STFU and go find your own planet to live on..."
I'm guessing this is one you might regret sooner than later ...?
Iggo
(47,742 posts)Then again, I'm fairly old, so most of my "come-to-jesus" moments happened pre-internet.
For the most part, though, I accept it when people tell me, "I used to be fucked up like that, and now I'm not fucked up like that anymore." People get better than they used to be. It happens. I've seen it. Hell, I've done it.
Butterflylady
(3,603 posts)Heck I used to be a pro-lifer till I really matured. I finally came to realize that everyone has a right to their belief and I have absolutely no right to judge them or push my belief on them. So yes, I probably said or thought some things I am truly ashamed of and regret. I guess you could say I finally saw the light.
QC
(26,371 posts)or called someone a "shim."
keithbvadu2
(37,683 posts)Carey1
(11 posts)Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Almost everyone of us have evolved in the LGBT movement, including myself. We look back and can't believe what we were thinking at the time and feel embarrassed at our behavior. We have all come to know a family member, good friends who are gay. How can you ever stop loving someone you have loved since birth. Nothing else matters.
mountain grammy
(26,799 posts)Once told someone he was a fucking idiot. Im no writer, and I know Im wrong about many things, and try to admit it. I know, without meaning to be, I can be insensitive, but I know Ive not written anything demeaning anyone for their race, religion or sexual preferences.
I know people change and evolve, and thats good. There were many who said they thought marriage should be between a man and woman (Obama and Hillary for example) but they didnt go around making homophobic statements or nasty jokes about gay people. The policy by itself was bad enough without smearing members of the LGBTQ community.
I like Joy and listened to her today, like every Saturday, and todays show was great. I think shes truly sorry and she should be, because wrote things to be truly sorry for.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)people go through and the move around your words, pictures and delete portions. There are screecaps.of the same post from the archive and the one from the Twitter "Not a Bot" unearthing brand new, ever more hateful things on its timeline. They have clearly been badly photoshopped, with people arguing that they are her words so wa hat doesn't matter what order the bot has placed them?
This is literally the same playbook used for all those hoax videos where there was much editing and people were like, but they said the words, who cares in what order! They know thisntype.ofnhiax will work with people predisposed to hate their target, and the usual suspects did what they always do.
Released to sloppy right wing journalists, created a Twitter mob to blow it up and then the MSM picked up on the story and people pointed to.them, saying see, it's not just Beeitbart and Tucker and the Daily Sihnap.and the Daily Caller and Sputnik and RT and the Free Beacon etc
This looks and smells familiar because it's the same playbook. Remember how long it took to correct the Planned parenthood crap, ACORN didn't survive, now they're attacking a black woman?
R B Garr
(17,103 posts)We need to unearth Jamie Maz Not a Bot and get a good look at him/her.
Great post.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)and other Russian crap. The usual suspects defend this crap. It's exhausting dealing with these people who just lie all the time, as with the WHCD. It's just pie after lie after lie.
R B Garr
(17,103 posts)I bet we would be right if we could speculate about Jamie Mazs Not a Bots motives.
In the meantime, Joy had a great weekend show, as usual. She is a terrific ally for our side.
joshcryer
(62,297 posts)There was a terrible case where a woman deleted Facebook messages to make a guy she had sex with look like a stalker: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223567/Man-rape-conviction-quashed-police-blunder.html
And of course shitty photoshops have been circulated forever and Facebook is ripe for it because people on there don't actually do due diligence to tell whether or not something is true. For some of us it's just intuition (like when Syria happened a "Defcon 1" message was being spread on Facebook and I pointed out to my mom when she called me in a panic if that was true we were at WWIII and every phone would be going off), but other people are just lost in the noise.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Unless the person is extremely boring, everyone has thoughts that are extreme, even if they are not of the political variety.
So pretty much remember all my extreme posts.
The mundane stuff? Post like "yea I agree with that." nah.
joshcryer
(62,297 posts)At most I would simply cease talking about a certain subject in a certain way if it bothered people. I've found that I've had to dial back discussion of "identity politics" but I never really gave it much effort before.
I think Joy Reid's opinion in 2008 is uncontroversial for the time. None of the Presidential candidates were for gay marriage. Prop 8 won because of the black vote (no it's not a myth, liberals who try to reinterpret that result are simply and blatantly wrong).
I never believed the hacking story.
marlakay
(11,649 posts)I went through a religious phase for ten years from 17-27. During that time I was very prolife and against abortion.
Church i was going to at time was very that way.
I stopped going to church and believing but stayed pretty prolife until my daughter had a abortion. I realized i had to either believe she was a murderer or change. And I evolved.
I am sure I am not the first person who changed because of that.
Now many years later I strongly believe in choice.
So we need to not be so judgmental. I was brainwashed in a almost cult like rightwing church.
applegrove
(119,624 posts)Last edited Tue May 8, 2018, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)
as to whether the province should allow sharia tribunals when their were indigenous and Jewish ones for civil law. I said you could not ban just Muslim ones. The government banned all civil tribunals instead. That was the right answer. I had not thought it through. Anyhow my support for it is out there in the boneyards of the internet. Makes me cringe to think of it.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 30, 2018, 08:14 AM - Edit history (1)
A few days back I did a Google search on what was going on and the first link I clicked on related to this now blocked archives had a post, from the 2008 primary, "Hillary is an insane racist liar who wants to destroy the Dems.". There was more there but I stopped there.
I can only speculate if it was legit but the link in the article to the blog brought up this so called "robot" that her IT people put in place to block acess.
From what I've read I dont really care to watch her anymore then any of the other cable tv pundits that I dont watch. We all need to eat and I hope that she doesn't lose her job, but I won't watch.