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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichelle Wolf tells the truth about how media helps Trump, and the media can't stand it
We have a big problem in America today.
Our media helped get elected a corrupt, autocratic grifter who wants to hurt poor people and minorities. And they refuse to own that help.
Michelle Wolfs toast last night was truth telling. The truth hurts, and Wolf told a lot of truth that wasnt so funny.
Heres some examples of the truths that both the GOP and our media hated.
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Kellyanne Conway lies every time she is interviewed, and Wolf told the truth about it:
Sarah Sanders lies in every briefing. She is a propagandist on the level of Baghdad Bob or Joe Goebbels. Wolf told the truth about it:
shes very resourceful. But she burns facts and then she uses that ash to create a perfect smokey eye. Like maybe shes born with it, maybe its lies. Its probably lies.
Sanders looked stony faced and there were both laughs and groans. But Wolf was not done: Im never really sure what to call Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Is it Sarah Sanders, is it Sarah Huckabee Sanders, is it Cousin Huckabee, is it Aunt Huckabee Sanders? Whats Uncle Tom but for white women who disappoint other white women? Ah I Know, Aunt Coulter referring to the rightwing pundit Ann Coulter.
Meanwhile Maggie Haberman from the NYT takes Sarah Sanders side. Our media have been captured by the propagandists and liars in this administration who are trying to damage democracy to acquire wealth for billionaires.
Heres Haberman defending Sanders: That @PressSec sat and absorbed intense criticism of her physical appearance, her job performance, and so forth, instead of walking out, on national television, was impressive.
Her job performance???? As if destroying American democracy is a her job and we should be rooting for her to perform well at that?
Heres a good response to Habermans embarrassing and complicit tweet:
Link to tweet
?s=20
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Unbelievably, the GOP are trying to spin this. We expect to hear Complicit Sean Spicer attack Wolf. We expect to hear Propagandists-for-Billionaires Conway and Sanders attack Wolf.
But we should expect our media to be better than that. We should expect them to recognize the truth and own it. Will they?
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)dalton99a
(83,358 posts)They were complicit in his rise and ascent to power.
greymattermom
(5,791 posts)and she fought back the only way that works. Bullies can't take what they dish out.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)onetexan
(13,605 posts)The truth is always hard to accept, AND hard to deliver. Wolf had the gumption and platform to do it, and she did, quite effectively.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)Idiotic excuses. Fuck people like chuck Todd, joe and Mika...they gave us an American hitler
robbob
(3,607 posts)Smokey eye? THAT is intense criticism of her personal appearance? Please note: that was the ONLY comment about SHSs appearance. The rest of the bit was mocking her for being a liar. Which she is.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)"Smokey eye" is look that's achieved using makeup.
Yeah, what a brave woman SHS is for not walking out on that zinger.
Pepsidog
(6,291 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)A wise person once said, when someone is cruel or acts like a bully you dont stoop to their level.
Pepsidog
(6,291 posts)every tool available to discredit and call these traitors out. They have done more to destory the country than any administration in history. And lest we forget, this was comedy its just that the skin thinned Republicans cant take a joke. Calling Sanders a liar is factually true. Wolf said nothing that wasnt true. She spoke truth to power about the NYT too. Trump has been a windfall for all media but especially the left. Haberman received a Pulitzer and now what is she a Trump sympathizer? All the lies Conway and Sanders spew that directly have negative affects on our country and she is offended by a few mild jokes? lm starting to think that the left needs their own version of lying Tea Party radicals. Im sick of the criticism of Wolf. I loved every moment and savored every word.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"Our motto is, when they go low, we go high" - words to live by.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)Pepsidog
(6,291 posts)dumdrum
(16 posts)Finding ourselves in a difficult situation, my son gave me our options:
Fuck, Fight, or hold the light 😎
marble falls
(60,279 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)since I'm sure she knows most comedians are SUPPOSED to go low.
And I'm also sure she and her husband were laughing their asses off last night ...
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)unblock
(53,916 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)vi5
(13,305 posts)Working out really great for us hasn't it.
We could lower ourselves 5 levels from where we are and we still wouldn't be on their level.
B2G
(9,766 posts)should be your first clue that the whole routine was ill-advised.
tenderfoot
(8,598 posts)and bullshit she spews on a daily basis.
I'm simply pointing out that she's receiving a ton of sympathy as a result of this.
Are you on Twitter?
tenderfoot
(8,598 posts)like Dennis Miller and Laura Ingraham... what was Wolf thinking?
The crack about Flint still not having clean water was easily the harshest thing said. Let us hope that drums up sympathy to correct it.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Would you care to clarify?
tenderfoot
(8,598 posts)Fox, Ingraham, Miller, etc...
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Was that not clear?
B2G
(9,766 posts)Was that too not clear?
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Kingofalldems
(39,065 posts)JI7
(90,108 posts)So that certainly does give a clue about what these people are about.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I see no sincere sympathy for her... merely more manufactured concern that would yet be created regardless of who said what.
Clue, indeed.
I am however, quite sure yours is not simply another variation on the "this makes us look bad" routine. Really.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Media showed speeches & rallies & debates, like it always does for ALL leading candidates in Presidential races. When it became clear he was a leading contender, they covered more of his speeches & rallies, because he was a LEADING contender. That's their job. They also showed Hillary speeches & rallies & debates (although they were less colorful & got far less attention).
They didn't "create" Trump. They reported the phenomenon that was a clown leading the GOP candidates. Just like they reported the phenomenon that was Obama.
The right criticized the media for lovin' on Obama.
The media reports on the big events, what the public wants to see, the news. A surprise rising candidate that has captured part of the public's attention is news.
The media did its job in tracking the outrageous insults that Trump made, mocking a disabled reporter, the lies he told, the fake campaign promises that were so obvious.
I place blame where I think it belongs: the incredibly stupid, gullible, uninformed, and uneducated group of Trump supporters, buoyed by the GOP, which also was carried away with a win at any cost.
paleotn
(18,799 posts)It wasn't until the last several months that many media types finally worked up enough intestinal fortitude to actually use the damn word.....lie. For years they've given equal voice to lies and put them on the same footing as truth. Many have perpetrated the utter bullshit of "the post truth era" and now stand dumbfounded at what such tripe has created...the age of Dumpster. Call me old fashioned, but I thought the job of the 4th estate was to uncover lies for what they are and report the truth. I guess many in today's media slept through that class in journalism school or skipped it altogether. They report uninformed opinion and spin as if it were equal to facts and are too damn lazy do the fucking research and call them exactly what they are....lies. I guess they think stenography is so much easier than actual journalism and talking points actually fucking matter when the rubber of truth meets the road of reality.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)paleotn
(18,799 posts)Maybe some of them subscribe to Conway's "alternative facts" without actually admitting to it. I can see no other explanations.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)Instead, they simply aired those lies.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)EXACTLY. The media should call a lie a lie, not just repeat the lie.
We want an objective media that conveys facts. Not merely a media that repeats what people say when what they say are lies.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Some people weren't following Trump closely early on. So they probably wouldn't recall the repeated media reports of Trump lies.
Here are 2015 articles from major news orgs/publications reporting on Trump's lies (Wash. Post, NYT, Politifact, US News, Fortune, Time, CNN)
DONALD TRUMP IS CONSTANTLY LYING.https://www.washingtonpost.com/
2015 Lie of the Year: the campaign misstatements of Donald Trump
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/
Most of What Donald Trump Says is B.S., Fact-Checking Website Says
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015-12-21/fact-checking-website-donald-trump-lies-76-percent-of-the-time
All Politicians Lie. Some Lie More Than Others.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html
Here's Fortune Mag. blaming the media for Trump's lies (sound familiar?):
What Should the Media Do When Donald Trump Blatantly Lies?
http://fortune.com/2015/11/26/trump-lies/
Donald Trump's 'Campaign Misstatements' Named the '2015 Lie of the Year'
http://time.com/4157265/donald-trump-politifact-lie/
The top campaign whoppers from a lie-filled 2015
https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/politics/top-whoppers-of-2015-tapper-factcheck/index.html
The coverage of his lies picked up in 2016, naturally.
So any statement that the "media" didn't report on Trump's lies is a falsehood itself, right? Since from a review of the above, the major media did in fact start reporting on it early on, using the words "false" and "lies."
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)Your link to the WaPo "Trump is constantly lying" piece goes to today's WaPo headlines, none of which say Trump is lying.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Interesting.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It's simply false to state that the media wasn't reporting the lies. It appears they were as shocked by it as the rest of the country (except Trumpers). Not just by the lies, but also the refusal to back down, even when faced with irrefutable evidence it was a lie.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Some people are like that.
I listed numerous instances of major media reporting on the lies and falsehoods of Trump back in 2015. Your statement that the media did not report on that until very recently, and didn't identify his statements as false or lies...is incorrect. The facts speak for themselves.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)That was not "reporting." Those were opinion pieces. Opinion pieces simply are not taken as fact. Because they are, by definition, opinions. Thus they do not carry the same weight or effect.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)You were WRONG. That is the media. It REPORTED Trump's lies.
As a prior journalism student...straight reporting is who, what, when, where, how...and sometimes why. Straight reporting will merely state those things.
To say a politician is lying IS opinion. It is not who, what, when, where, how, or why. Anything other than those things are opinions.
Sorry...you're just wrong.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)You really shouldn't brag about that.
Oh, and I'm not a "dude."
P.S. I studied journalism too.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)I think Brian Beutler puts well why the media has been used by the GOP to harm us and harm America.
https://crooked.com/article/trump-nunes-memo-obstruction/
The point is not that the mainstream press should just tell the world the opposite of what Fox News says, but that journalists in the Trump era cant edify the public without updating their professional mores to account for the words and deeds of newsmakers who speak and act in bad faith.
On the day #ReleaseTheMemo went viral on Twitter, journalists could watch in real time as the hashtag spread from bots and the pro-Trump fringe, to the trending topics, to Fox News, and ultimately into mainstream coverage. Reporters unearthed the central allegation contained in the Nunes memothat the DOJ included portions of the famed Trump-Russia dossier in its affidavit seeking a warrant to wiretap former Trump campaign volunteer Carter Pageand exposed it as a non sequitur two weeks ago. They learned that Trump had told confidants that he hoped to use the memo as a pretext to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the Mueller investigation, days ago.
There is hardly a person at work in politics who didnt piece together, long before he published the memo, that Nunes choreographed his stunt in order to mislead and confuse the public. That early in his ongoing and multifarious efforts to obstruct and discredit the Russia investigation, Trump recruited and compromised the House intel chair, and nearly the entire GOP has agreed to play along, deploying arguments (about coup plots, and about civil liberties) that they plainly dont believe.
That story doesnt take any meaningful interpretive license with the facts, it is just whats happening in front of our eyes. A more slanted, but I believe equally accurate version is that Trump is attempting to perpetrate a modern-day, slow-motion Saturday Night Massacre, with the complicity of most congressional Republicans and the conservative media.
Its an amazing story! The kind that might ultimately come to define our current political moment. A story people will believe, but only if they are told its happening, and shown its true. But in absence of discourse norms that allow reporters to treat bad faith for what it is, the truth is by necessity being subordinated to an alternate reality in which partisan anger is running high and views on the shape of the Earth differ
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)But I think it makes people feel better to try and blame someone other than who is to blame: Russia and voters.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Fox and Limbaugh and right wing radio are the only reason the GOP wins elections. Propaganda works.
Russia had an effect, but only a small one targeted at a few states.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)topping it all off with actual hacking of election systems by Rusher on election night.
We now know that Hannity & Trump were/are bffs, Hannity uses Trump's fixer Cohen, so in all probability was aware of the fix that was in with Rusher, if not having participated himself.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)The headline was almost always what he said. Sometimes they'd say what he said was "incorrect" or "inaccurate," which was pure sugarcoating. Sure there were folks in opinion and analysis pieces calling him out, but I am talking about above the fold headlines and MSM online headlines.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I listed numerous articles by major media/news about Trump's lies and falsehoods.
I'm sure you can find one sentence in each that you disagree with. But there are many articles there...and some charts, too.
The facts speak for themselves. You were mistaken that media wasn't reporting on Trump's lies until very recently, and even then, not referring to them as lies or falsehoods. That's simply not true.
Some people started focusing on Trump later in the game. So they may not have noticed the reporting on the Trump lies. The media was as shocked as many in the public by the brazen lies, sometimes in the face of evidence that it was in fact a lie.
As a political junkie who watched every single debate, Republican and Democratic, and watched at least part of every campaign rally shown, and read a LOT of articles and watched a LOT of tv about the candidates, I remember it all to well. There was a collective mouth-open shock at the clown Trump's bald faced lies. The media did its job very well.
SunSeeker
(53,177 posts)They obsessively carried screaming stories about Hillary's emails but little about her policy positions. For fuck's sake, the NYTimes breathlessly ran headlines that they had "exclusive" "Clinton Cash" excerpts, even thpugh they were total lies. That led to people incorrectly thinking Hillary stood for nothing and was about to be indicted.
With Trump, they broadcast his every word and every rally, essentially acting as his microphone.
The biggest story of 2016 was that we had an utterly unqualified, Russian-backed mendacious liar running for president. But you'd never know that from the headlines. He repeatedly told strings of racist, brazen lies at rallies, but instead of the headline reading "Trump Again Lies About Immigrants," they would report what he said as the headline, i.e., "Trump Says Muslim Immigrants Aren't Vetted." Most people only read headlines, if that. Hence, the MSM was just helping Trump, even if somewhere in the story they said how he was "incorrect."
The MSM owed the country the use of the "L-word" in the headline with regard to Trump, considering his horrific, unprecedented misbehavior. Yet they did not do it outside of opinion/analysis pieces. They feared being seen as biased; they feared losing readers/money more than losing our democracy. They failed us and the world.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)The media was catfished by right wing propaganda.
Heres an explanation
https://www.democraticunderground.com/11742641
There's an idea in journalism that there should be two kinds of "news" - "unbiased" news and "editorials", where opinions are allowed.
To be brief: this is bunk. All news has some slant. When journalists try to be "unbiased", they fall into a trap laid by the right -- the "Bothsidesism" trap. The right is willing to lie blatantly, and the left is not. So the right actively exploits the media by lying, knowing they will not be called out on it, because news sources think they must "present what people say", even if it is a lie.
This is one of the cornerstone problems with our news media:
Bothsidesism and the myth of 'unbiased news'.
(Other problems include infotainment/for-profit media, and right-wing propaganda.)
Two things.
1. Journalism school today says that journalists should be unbiased. This is total bunk, and thats what the thread above covers. We want journalists to be OBJECTIVE. That means, if you cover the Cleveland Browns, you say they are a bad team with an inaccurate quarterback. If you cover the GOP and Trump you should say they are corrupt liars who aim to screw average americans to enrich GOP billionaires. Jay Rosen, Brian Beutler, Paul Krugman have covered this well. Journalism school needs to change.
2. To combat lying propaganda, media must present the truth first, then note the lie, then return to the truth. This is psychology and PR 101. Its the reason why Pepsi commercials dont usually mention Coke, even negatively. Because just repeating a lie gives it credence. THAT is why journalism failed us. They repeated lies.
paleotn
(18,799 posts)The media's penchant for false equivalence was but one factor. Giving equal footing to liars and nuts, be they Rethugs, climate deniers or creationists has consequences. The lack of push back when they spout obvious bullshit has consequences. Don't get me wrong, some are pushing back, but dear god, did it take this pack of crazies for media types to start doing their fucking jobs?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WAPO..and other sources. Pushback against the lies and bizarroworld, and his trashy behavior...the whole shabang. They've been pushing back since 2015. It increased in 2016, when Trump became more high profile, and the lies bigger and bigger and the behavior more outrageous. The video of him making fun of a disabled person was shown by all the media that I saw.
They've been doing an excellent job in that regard, IMO. It is not their job, however, to take on a candidate in preference to another because of party or politics. Unless you're talking about a partisan media outlet.
But calling out specific behaviors like lying, stammering, losing train of thought, yelling, name calling...that is calling abnormal behavior to the public's attention, regardless of party.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)If one side lies brazenly and the other side doesnt., its not bias to say one side is lying. Its objectivity.
Journalists have confused balance with objectivity.
Paul Krugman first started discussing journalistic bothsidesism in 1999. 2015 and 2016 were the nadir, when Trump, the GOP, and the rightwing propaganda machine shamelessly exploited journalists to push GOP lies in the name of balance.
I am actually fairly optimistic today in 2018. While the NYT and CNN reacted predictably to last night, the pushback from average citizens on Twitter has been impressive. I think we are moving towards a new journalistic age of truth and objectivity. So be of good cheer!
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That's not the media's job (except for partisan sites & shows).
They do, and have, pushed back. I posted you a list of the major media outlets where they started calling him out for lying in 2015.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Thats the point. It IS the medias job to speak the truth.
Thats what truth is all about.
If you were covering a Cavaliers-Nets game, and the Nets coach said the Nets were the best team in the league and favored to beat the Cavs, would you repeat that with no comment? No, you would say it was false and the Cavs were a better team. The only difference in political reporting is that many reporters have built their careers on being fair to both sides because right wing mu muing has scared both journalists and their corporate owners. A nadir was in 2016 when NPR said they wouldnt use the word lie to describe Trumps words.
Because they said it wasnt [their] job to call a lie a lie.
Thats a j-school myth that the right wing propaganda machine has buttressed because it helps the GOP.
It absolutely IS the job of a journalist to tell the truth. We wouldnt accept lies about the Nets and we shouldnt accept lies about the President and the GOP.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Continued quote, by CBS CEO:
The money is rolling in. This is fun!
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/leslie-moonves-donald-trump-may-871464
For more discussion of why the media failed us
https://www.democraticunderground.com/11742641
https://www.democraticunderground.com/11742365
paleotn
(18,799 posts)including the false equivalence media. As for Maggie Haberman, get a grip, damn it! Slanders lies every damn time she opens her pie hole. When one takes the side of constant lies and slime, the fucking gloves come off. That's how it works, Maggie. Step out of your ivory tower and fucking deal with it!
shockey80
(4,379 posts)marieo1
(1,402 posts)I agree with Michele Wolf!! I have listened to the newscasters for years and I finally got sick and tired of them always broadcasting lies, lies and more lies. Oh, once in awhile they might actually happen to tell facts and the truth but most of the time it's just lies and they tell them as if they are 'the truth'!! I quit listening to their lies a long time ago, that's why I'm a fan of Democrat Underground, Rachel, Lawrence and Joy on MSNBC. I know they do a lot of research to make sure they have the facts and I support and enjoy them 100% and I thank them for taking the time to be factual!! Lies can destroy and hurt people!!
Fiendish Thingy
(17,428 posts)Can you imagine if Sarah Silverman was speaking? Or Amy Schumer?
IMO, the WHCD should have a woman speaker every year that Trump is in office.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)When she getting her own show on another channel but the same time frame as rosanne?
mulsh
(2,959 posts)is my favorite line from last night. Good to see some light shown on the media darling who are culpable in foisting the Kremlin Klan on an undeserving nation. I suppose its too much to hope for some soul searching from at least the media crowd but I can dream.
ancianita
(37,683 posts)PaulX2
(2,032 posts)Anyone else notice?
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)She said what needed to be said. It wasn't pretty, but necessary. It's about time we start giving as good as we've been receiving.
Nitram
(24,081 posts)tell the truth about this administration. They will all defend themselves by saying Wolf wasn't funny, or Wolf went overboard, or Wolf was "vulgar", or Wolf whatever. The truth is, they can't handle the truth.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)They are GREEDY ASSHOLES watching their bank accounts. They don't give 2 shits about the truth...their mantra in life is ...PULL UP THE LADDER I'M ON BOARD.
Nitram
(24,081 posts)naive or polite. Those who have decent values and are basically good people, but just don't understand what is going on. It is the liars and enablers who are the "GREEDY ASSHOLES watching their bank accounts."
CrispyQ
(37,629 posts)How is mentioning that SHS wears a smokey eye calling out her appearance?
Wolf held a mirror up to the entire room & they didn't like what they saw.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Wolf gets three times as many likes for this reply than Haberman got for her original tweet.
Link to tweet
?s=20
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Two years ago Jeff Zucker at CNN put liar Jeff Lord on the air for ratings regularly with very little pushback.
Now, haberman tweets this, and Wolfs response gets way more engagement than Habermans criticism. That is HUGE PROGRESS.
I am optimistic the media can break out of their j-school bothsidesist fantasy in time to save the Republic.
manor321
(3,344 posts)The routine was boorish, unfunny and did damage to our side by handing them ammunition.
Colbert did it SO much better attacking George Bush. That was brilliant satire.
Last night was just an unfunny rant.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)mainer
(12,132 posts)and all I can say is, "Amen, sister!"
She was hilarious and she spoke the truth.