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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShaun King: Black couple seated, given menus, told to move because white regular wanted that table
From Twitter (video at link): I kid you not, this Black couple was seated, given menus, and prepared to order when they were asked to move to a different table because a "white regular" wanted to sit there.
When they refused to move, of course, they threatened to call the police.
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/991352159626149888
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I mean, if they can make people leave and have them arrested if they don't, they surely have the right to make them sit where they tell them too.
And all the people had to do was just move to another table and there wouldn't have been a problem.
Right?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I was about to get irate.
Sad that I know there are many people including at DU who will have that response.
Shit be cray as the Ferret says
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)Johnny Wimbrey? He's rich. There goes another hole in the boat of a 'rising tide lifts . . .'
Because it doesn't raise jack shit for black folks if bigots are still allowed to get away with their bigot thing they do.
http://www.johnnywimbrey.com/
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)He or she would not have cared if the Black people were the richest people in the world.
Like LBJ said "If you convince the lowest white man that he is better than the best black man, that white man won't care that you are picking his pockets".
lunasun
(21,646 posts)have demanded that 'those people ' be removed from their regular seating preference.
I just do not see a host pushing it on their own that the regulars get their special table with out some complaint from the regulars
although he did tell the guy seated he doesn't like him that is why he is calling the cops, so who knows maybe he was looking for a reason to mess with them but the restaurant should have been the ones to act accordingly and appease the regular if that is who started it, and explain they could not get the table this time ..sorry its occupied .
Perhaps the regulars escalated it further if the host did try that first ,and since it was a black couple the host instinctively thought he could be out of order with them
and didn't really care to treat them as customers who were already seated, so he chose the outrageous route they took of calling the cops instead of going back to the regulars and explaining the couple seated already at the table was asked and unfortunately they did not care to move at this point,
so do you want to wait or can we offer you another table and how about dessert on us? IMO
The fact that they have him on the phone saying he doesn't like the guy that is why he is calling the cops really tells me something about the whole place and how it is run that they would let a host or manager act like that to anyone!
tblue37
(65,340 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)tblue37
(65,340 posts)up the seat he had paid for.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)As a white guy, I wouldn't have picked him out as black--maybe Latino or multi-racial.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)You are seriously kidding me right?
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)the crime of being black plus he gets to get the message out to the world what a vile racist prick the guy is and the restaurant best fire him.
Manager was CLEARLY upset with the reasonable customer, had to be a reason, GEE wonder what it was.
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)Too. He's an upbeat motivation guy.
I love his hashtag he started . . .
normal person and listen to some music, said Wimbrey.
The motivational speaker has started a hashtag on Twitter called #KeepCalmAndLive, to advise minorities on how to stay calm if they are confronted by police.
http://www.newsweek.com/racism-johnny-wimbrey-texas-907476
#KeepCalmAndLive
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The good fight is about picking the right battles to fight. Restaurant regulars to some places (like me), can be pretty strange, we like our certain table or tables. Sounds like the regular in the story was anal retentive, a lot, but the manager had a right to seat him where he wanted to sit. Here is what I would have done from three points of view:
The Black couple: Move but ask for the next open table over. Try to get an idea of what the guy was about from that vantage point.
The Manager: I would have offered to comp the Black couple, 10% off each of their meals if at a pricey, high margin place, 5% off otherwise.
The Regular: Have nothing here, if I saw the couple at my favorite table, I would have asked for my next best table if it was available.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But if youre going to do shouldas you shoulda started with the manager. He shoulda immediately offered something to the couple instead of just telling them to move. Had he done that - had he treated them with respect and not as less than - they would likely have responded differently because the situation would have been different.
But he didnt and, thus, the couple had no obligation to play nice and bend over backwards to accommodate the manager and the regulars.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)And I would never reseat any customer for anybody, not even the owner. F that. The regular and the manager are self entitled, arrogant and selfish a-holes. At my restaurants, the regular would be treated to complimentary drinks and appetizers at the bar or a different table until the other diners finished their meal as those diners should have every expectation of enjoying their dining experience and, if my staff and myself are worth a damn, could become my newest regulars.
I would support a polite bribe to the already seated diners offered by the regular but I would support the seated diners' decision what ever it would be.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)There must have been something else that caused this. We may never get to the bottom of this mystery.
JFC, do I have to put this thing here:
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)I love you.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Turns out the guy he tossed had brought large parties to that restaurant in the past. Someone's gonna be shopping a resume around, I believe, and the restaurant is going to get a pile of crummy publicity. Well-earned, too.
Demovictory9
(32,454 posts)wow.
IronLionZion
(45,433 posts)especially involving black people who did nothing wrong and just want to live life as paying customers.
It's happened to me where I was asked to move to a smaller shittier table in the back by the kitchen because some white regulars needed our 4 person table in a fancy shmancy restaurant in DC. Our server was the same race as my friend and me (Indian) but his mind and soul were colonized by whites.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)"but his mind and soul were colonized by whites"
Solomon
(12,310 posts)POC discriminating against POC because of being subjected to the same constant brainwashing that everyone is subjected to. There are lots of POCs in he service of white supremacy.
IronLionZion
(45,433 posts)Michelle Wolf even joked about finding a term for white women like Sarah Huckabee Sanders who throw other white women under the bus.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)I don't know how to do that.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)There was no way to post the video from Twitter, unfortunately.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Strange that the racist morons haven't figured that out.
Wonder if this joint will have to take a training day.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And that their actions are going to be known nationally.
JI7
(89,248 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)WTF were the police going to do? Manhandle people who were legally there ordering food?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)but I don't think it would ever happen to me in the first place.
I don't know if I'd be comfortable doing that if I were black.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Why put yourself through that. Instead, video the confrontation and put it on social media, as that person did. That makes the crap hit the air circulation device very quickly, which it now has.
That's much more effective, and safer, besides. That's what I'd have done, too.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)police behavior in that situation accomplish the same thing?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)management, not the police. Now, if the police came and mistreated that customer, that would have been a separate thing. Wisely, I think, the man opted to leave to avoid a confrontation with police. I'd have done the same. This way, he limited the problem to its source, and the social media blowback will have its effect.
Why allow the thing to blow up by dealing with the cops? That wasn't necessary.
As it turned out, there was no confrontation with the police. But, the restaurant is getting the bad publicity it deserves. A good decision on that man's part, actually.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)It just makes me want to break things that this couple had to get up and move because the manager was an asshole.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Not every situation needs to be escalated. In fact, if it's possible to end the situation peacefully by retreating, that is almost always the best choice.
For example, if some drunk asshole decides to pick a fight with me in some bar, I'm not going to give him the satisfaction. I'm outa there. Every last freaking time. I can't imagine how getting into a bar fight with a drunk is going to do any good for anyone. I can control my temper just fine, so I back away from such situations. I've been in that spot a few times, and have always managed to leave without any further ado.
On the other hand, if the drunk asshole actually physically assaults me, all bets are off. So far, that has vary rarely happened. I'm out of the situation before it comes to that. The couple of times it did happen, I still left the place, but the drunk was still there, puking on the floor. I prefer the peaceful way out, though, by far.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and I guess you're right it's better not to escalate but again, it makes me very angry that minorities are always asked to suck it up so as to not make it worse - it's almost like saying they're part of the problem (which I guess is what many would say if they did allow it to escalate when they could have walked away - but that's also part of the problem).
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)and the story appeared on the news. He's getting the story out there. That's far more effective, really.
This isn't about the police. It's about that restaurant. He's blowing the whistle on the cause of the problem. No need to confuse the story by adding another element, as far as I can see.
If you are trying to create action to correct a problem, it's important to focus clearly on what that problem is. The police weren't involved in this, so they're not the problem in this particular situation. Had he held out for the police to come, the problem might well have shifted away from its original source.
I think he made the most of the opportunity here. I just about guarantee that that restaurant will have more to say before long. Apparently, there are other branches of it, too. Somewhere, there is an owner. What happens next will reveal how this ends.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but he and his companion (I haven't read if they were married or involved or what so I'm going with companion) had to move. That's my point. THEY had to be inconvenienced in a way that a white pair would not. So the manager gets fired, big fucking deal. It wont stop it from happening again.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The sheer amount of these types of stories is very depressing. Especially when a Supreme Court justice claims there is no more racism.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)If this weren't on video, I doubt we would know. The upside of social media.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)of course it is.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)fired immediately...and may the next guy who wants to act this way won't because he will lose his job.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Exhausting
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)And, don't particularly like going to court, either.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)They don't ask questions they simply remove the tresspasser.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Since people aren't trespassers just because a manager says they are - the police have to first determine there's probable cause to remove the person and the manager's word is not sufficient.
onenote
(42,700 posts)would the police need before citing the patron for trespassing?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Here's the nutshell version.
Under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, an arrest is legal only if the arresting officers first determine they have probable cause to believe that the person has actually committed the crime theyre being charged with. Probable cause is determined from an objective standard, i.e., if the officer was aware of facts justifying a reasonable belief that an offense was being committed. Under Texas law, as held by state and federal courts, a finding of probable cause requires more than a bare suspicion or mere allegation. E.g., State v. Mosely, 348 S.W.3d 435, 441 (Tex. App.Austin 2011, United States v. MarioniMelendez, 460 F. Appx 336, 339 (5th Cir. 2012); United States v. Watson, 273 F.3d 599, 602 (5th Cir. 2011). Probable cause is determined from the standpoint of the arresting officer. Mesa v. Prejean, 543 F.3d 264, 274 (5th
Cir. 2008)
Therefore, the officer must determine whether the patron actually committed a trespass. They cannot simply go in to the restaurant and arrest whomever the manager says is committing a trespass. If they do, that is an illegal arrest and they are guilty of false arrest.
In Texas, a criminal trespass occurs where (1) a person (2) without effective consent (3) enters or remains on the property or in a building of another (4) knowingly or intentionally or recklessly (5) when he had notice that entry was forbidden or received notice to depart but failed to do so.
However, because it is illegal under Texas law for public accommodation such as a restaurant - to discriminate or deny service to anyone on the basis of their race, the police must first consider whether the manager has a valid, non-discriminatory basis for wanting someone ejected from their restaurant. And it is up to the police to determine whether they believe that asking a black customer refusing to give up their seat at a table so that a white person can sit there is a valid, non-discriminatory reason for asking the black customer to leave. If they think it is, they can make an arrest if the person doesnt leave. But if they dont, they should not ask the person to leave.
But, the bottom line is, the police not only dont have to just rely on the managers assertion that someone is trespassing, but they are forbidden by law to make an arrest based only on the managers claim without independently determining there is probable cause to remove a person and/or arrest them if they dont leave.
Hope this is helpful
Takket
(21,563 posts)tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)In America it's a real possibility.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Too often, wtf the police do is kill black people.
Caliman73
(11,736 posts)Hate to say it but, "Let them call the police" sounds like privilege to me. While I as a Brown adult, have had good dealings with the police and actually work with them in my job collaboratively, as a youth, they were not my friends and they were not friends of my friends. I remember getting pulled out of cars and sat on the curb for being 4 young people driving on a Friday night.
When police assume you are a threat and in the wrong as their default, as they seem to do with Black people, "calling the police" is not an easy answer.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)You are a good progressive, I have read you past posts often. But in this case, you are showing a bit of white privilege. The outcome of a black person standing up for his or her rights in that situation, would likely have been different from what you would have experienced.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Is what's making me want to hit something every time I hear stories like this. The thought that police would have done anything other than telling that manager to fuck himself is depressing. These stories make my heart hurt.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I would like to think that a person would treat everyone as an equal until a person PROVES otherwise.
ProfessorGAC
(65,010 posts)But, not once somebody is already seated there. You got there after those people, then you sit where you get seated.
If a host sees two couple waiting, one is a regular who always sits at table 5 near the window, i can see putting the first people at some other table, so the regulars can sit where they always sit.
But, after somebody is already at that table? That's just stupid.
hlthe2b
(102,236 posts)that SHOULD have been the end of it.
ProfessorGAC
(65,010 posts)I would have moved for the free meal. I still would tip and probably even bigger than normal, but i'd move for the freebie.
And yes, that would have been the end of it.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)If I'm eating for free, I tip huge.
Huge.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)it sounded as if the manager wanted them to pay their tab after he said he was kicking them out for trespassing.
Say what?!? Every bar or restaurant I've worked at, when we gave somebody the boot then it was understood we were eating the cost of their bill. That's just how it goes. You don't give someone the heave and still expect them to pay.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)into that restaurant. But, he's black, you see. And they all look alike to that white guy.
ProfessorGAC
(65,010 posts)I missed that. Well this is even stupider.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Pure racism on the part of that manager, who will no doubt be fired now.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I mean, I think it was lame and very poor customer service, but there's no way of knowing if the guy wouldn't have done the same thing to a white family if he considers the 'white customer' some absolutely hugely important customer, even if the people being asked to move were 'regulars'.
In fact we don't know whether the Host 'knew about' the previous large parties booked by the black family, Host maybe didn't know him at all.
I still think it's lame (even the 'white customer' was friggin' lame if he was aware of what was going on) as hell, and absolutely COULD HAVE been 'racist-based' ... but to declare that it 'must be'?
I think that's going a little far, just MHO.
Unless the host outright said 'we have an important white customer that needs this table' ... if that's the case, I take it back. Didn't watch the vid as it'll just piss me off.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I don't care. I did watch the video, because I wanted to see what actually happened. Had you done so, you might have the same opinion I have. I don't know. But I have the advantage of having watched it. You do not.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)and I fail to understand why people give this behavior the benefit of the doubt.
Mz Pip
(27,441 posts)to that couple then they should have called ahead and reserved their special table ahead of time.
Expecting someone to move because you didnt plan ahead is just rude.
ProfessorGAC
(65,010 posts)Not sure I understand your picque.
Bad idea to ask anyone to move, white, black, etc. That's going to be annoying another customer. Regulars would understand better than a newer customer.
dsc
(52,160 posts)if the customer had asked for his usual seat (though I can't imagine being that picky myself). But that trying should have consisted of a request with a comp meal or something like that. Being the cheapskate I am I would have moved under that request. But I shouldn't have had to.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,326 posts)Ive been asked to move to accommodate pushing tables together for a larger group. Thats off-putting enough. Moving for some pain in the ass would probably piss me off.
We have a favorite table at our favorite restaurant. We book it ahead if we have a large enough group to justify the bother (they dont normally accept reservations but I know the owner). I would never think of asking someone to move for us (not that my guy would ever be that ignorant).
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And if you think it's so important to appease that particular customer, then don't ever sit anyone at their favorite table just in case they happen to show up - or tell anyone you sit at that table that they may be asked to move if your special customers show up and let them decide whether they want to take the chance they might have to move ...
dsc
(52,160 posts)Some would and some wouldn't take it. But that is the most they should do to appease that regular. Again, I think most customers would be rather uncomfortable making people move as well they should. But give me a free meal or a discounted meal and I would move.
miyazaki
(2,240 posts)As they should be. Good job Sambuco 360.
Kittycow
(2,396 posts)I posted about Yelp just after you . It was satisfying to read those reviews!
Kittycow
(2,396 posts)The restaurant page is being flooded with this story including posting the video. So pages of one star reviews and deservedly so.
When a place of business screws up like this, usually Yelp puts a block on it but they're a little slow today so far
Also a reviewer mentioned that their friend had told them years ago that the place was racist.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)I probably just need another cup of coffee.
Kittycow
(2,396 posts)I don't know how to do a link or if you even can on mobile. Or I would
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Kittycow
(2,396 posts)the story will still come up in the search results, unless they hire some reputation-scrubbing firm. There's some technique where they can get the story to cycle back onto page five or six,etc, of the search results.
skypilot
(8,853 posts)Probably too late though. Yeah, it's too late.
Phoenix61
(17,003 posts)I have my favorite seat in most of them. If it's not available I do what most normal adults do...I sit somewhere else. I'm curious what the customer thinks about what happened.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The Regulars gotta be assholes too.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)LisaM
(27,807 posts)Who'd even want the table after that? Not that I'd ever ask for someone to be kicked out of a table because I wanted to sit in it (unless it was an accessibility issue), but what the heck's the matter with them? How could they participate in this?
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)dalton99a
(81,475 posts)madaboutharry
(40,209 posts)is that this General Manager, this white man, felt entitled to speak to this black man is such a derisive and disrespectful manner. It is so shameful.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)make people leave just because he says so.
We tried to tell yall - it doesnt work that way ...
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)The manager is God but with great power comes great responsibility and this manager deserves to lose their job. The owner must be making bricks as he/she watches his/her business die in real time.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)I should have qualified that with except for reasons of discrimination. I stand corrected.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)You're right and I appreciate when being corrected when I'm not. So you're welcome and thank you too.
kimbutgar
(21,137 posts)A Filipino friend of mine moved to a Phoenix and brought a house. He couldnt find a job there and then stopped going to restaurants in the Phoenix area because him and wife would ask for a booth and then get denied. A white couple comes in no reservations and immediately gets a booth. Numerous times when him and his wife did get seated they wait a long time for menus, white people immediately get one. He stopped going to Chain restaurants and now only goes to Mexican ones and gets good service. He said it happens all the time. When he is in the SF Bay Area he never experienced this. He works 3 weeks now in SF and goes home for 1 week in Phoenix. Hed love to move back to the Bay Area but housing is so expensive. He wants to move out of Phoenix and is now looking at Los Angeles area.
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)...in a queue?
An especially even more now. Ive seen racism but not like since twitler came in the scene. Ive heard people make Rascist comments that I never heard 3 years ago.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)He could look at the East Bay across from San Fran, but that is becoming pricier too. If he can, he may want to move to Tempe, that is predominantly a college town and isn't far from Phoenix, so commutes won't be bad.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And waited till the next time to sit there.
The police were not needed.
By this time, they gotta know not to do that unless they want bad publicity gone viral.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But cannot IMAGINE expecting someone who got there before me to move so I could sit there. And for a manager moved someone, I would be absolutely mortified and would probably spend my entire time there apologizing to them.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I'd just take another table. I'd be embarrassed to have someone moved, too. If the owner tried to do that, I would be like, no way, it does not matter. Someone in this cast of characters is a deplorable, if not both, is my guess.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)This was a reply to Mr. Wimbrey's post in Twitter (he is with the David Whiteman Band and they apparently have played there):
@DavidWhiteman26
Replying to @wimbrey
"They do not tolerate discrimination"!!!!!!! BS!!!!! I had to hire two extra Caucasian musicians that I never met one night to up the ratio of whites in my band.... They have a long track record of mis-treating black people there.... LOOOOONG well known record
Also, here's an article I found on Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/racism-johnny-wimbrey-texas-907476
"You have to remain calm under these circumstances to get out alive, and that is unfortunate for people of color, said Edmonds. "This a teachable moment for many. Some people get out alive, and some don't. We want to make it right, and we hope the company wants to make it right for Johnny and his family."
And Mr. Wimbrey said:
.........
treestar
(82,383 posts)Can't figure out what the place is called from Twitter.
Now I'm generalizing about place; not suprised, one Deplorable on my list was native of Plano. Sorry liberals of Plano.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)Quote: "A motivational speaker and his wife said they were kicked out of a restaurant in Plano, Texas, because they are black.
Johnny Wimbrey and his wife told ABC that they found a table that was not reserved and sat down for drinks at Sambuca 360 on Saturday. After a few minutes passed, the general manager asked the two to give up their seats."
From: http://www.newsweek.com/racism-johnny-wimbrey-texas-907476
......
dumdrum
(16 posts)Catherine Vincent
(34,489 posts)The gentlemen visited this place several times in the past and would like to continue but because this so called manager acted like an inconsiderate ahole, he probably won't return.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)I thought this sort of racial discrimination was illegal, and the clearly got caught red handed with no faux excuses this time.
DFW
(54,370 posts)I know about 500 people who won't be setting foot in that place until we hear that the manager has been fired, and Sambuca has given public notice of it. I also know that we won't be the first company to say so. If the manager still has his job by the end of this month, my bet is that he will be managing a 40%-50% drop in business revenue.
If this has made national headlines, you can imagine to what extent it will be in the local papers.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)A serious scene straight out of the comedy "As Good As It Gets" showing what a total jerk Jack Nicholson's character was. At least the movie character did it himself, not management.
Hope the restaurant gets its ass sued to the hilt and business becomes so bad it has to close. But it's Texas, so...
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Because there MUST be an innocuous reason for this ...
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Because yeah most people wouldn't believe this guy without the video. Sad. This kind of thing is not uncommon and never has been uncommon. There are just videos now.
*cough*cough*upthread*cough*
dalton99a
(81,475 posts)because we need to see the very beginning before the beginning of the video, and the very end after the end, otherwise the video is incomplete