UPDATE on CSU incident with the two native-American students: Body-cam footage and call audio.

[backscatter712]

Source: https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2018/05/04/colorado-state-university-police-body-cam-video-shows-response-native-american-students/581924002/

Body cam footage:

Call audio:
https://soundcloud.com/csucollegian/campus-tour-incident-911-call-audio

[OneBro]

1. This is like a really bad episode of Dear White People.

Only, without the script. The audio is truly enlightening in that the caller just knew, she KNEW, the two men were lying about why they were there. That, PLUS they were dressed in a manner that made her uncomfortable, and the fact that "more than one person" was concerned was simply the cherry on top. Call the police! THIS story has played out so many times in American history that we can't even blame this on Trump. THIS is America. Specifically, as with Trayvon Martin, this is about the crime of being non-white in America.

[lunasun]

14. Agree this is not from trump it is about the U.S. And certain groups refuse to acknowledge it

She will tell you she did nothing wrong
after all she was genuinely afraid of them. Worked for Zimmerman and other SYG killers

I am going to guess she is not remorseful at all . They did not fit in and she had to do something to protect her family is the justification . Will be only pissed if someone recognizes her voice,or gets called out and of course that will all be the two student's fault for being there in the first place

[DiverDave]

55. My ex-wife called the cops when

A black couple came to our house days after we moved in.
She was absolutely convinced they were there to rob us.
They had a page from a real estate site in their hand.
With a picture of our house on it.
She needs help, but insists that I am the problem.
I stayed until my youngest got to high school.
Best move I ever made.
She did give me 2 very fine sons.

[bettyellen]

2. She lied that the kid said he was from Mexico and accusers them of lying to her because they laughed

And didn’t give her a good enough answer to her interrogation? And OMG one used the pocket in his hoodie! She also lied and said “she knew” they weren’t part of the group. The police should have a serious talk with her about lying to LEO.

[LisaL]

11. He is from New Mexico so my guess she was confused on that one.

[bettyellen]

17. She wasn't looking for answers but instead to confirm her racist fears.

Who the hell expect teenagers to have great answers for them when strangers interrogate them? It seems she disliked them trying to beg off. Imagine if they actually tried to interact w her!

[tblue37]

29. Native American kids are not raised to chatter nonstop the way so many other American kids are.

In fact, silence is recognized as being valuable, and filling silence with unnecessary blather is not encouraged.

[hlthe2b]

30. They traditionally don't make a lot of eye contact either, which probably was perceived wrongly

by the woman. This is especially true of Navajo and other pueblo tribes. The entire story makes me depressed. I hope these young men can be made to feel welcome to complete their studies at CSU.

[brush]

36. Who the hell is her racist ass to be interogating anyone? Then she calls the cops...

when she isn't satisfied. She needs to be fined stiffly for wasting the cops time and costing the teens to miss the tour they drove 7 hours for.

[suffragette]

40. It gets even worse. Look at what one of the campus police said to mother in phone call.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/caller-described-teens-on-college-tour-as-really-odd/2018/05/04/7b2450fa-5008-11e8-85c1-9326c4511033_story.html?utm_term=.8f09c2e41210

The teens’ mother, Lorraine Gray, said Friday that she remained infuriated over the incident, and questioned the police handling of it, as well as the caller’s decision to report her sons.

“What do their clothes have to do with anything? Why would you be worried about a person’s clothes?” the mother said.

Gray says one of the officers who questioned her sons later told her in a phone call that maybe the incident would teach the teens to “speak up for themselves” in the future.

[bettyellen]

41. they always blame the victims!

[suffragette]

48. They always do, damn it!

[lunasun]

60. Yes because folks speaking up for themselves has worked out so well with officers in the past

[suffragette]

61. Exactly. And if he's referring to interactions with tour parent, she had already decided they were

“Lying” and “didn’t belong” so she was interpreting any action or inaction by them through her racist lens.

Doubly disgusting that campus officer tucked lecture on behavior into apologetic call. And people wonder why the mom and young men are holding off on responding to other attempts at communication from university.

[pamela]

37. "One of our fifty states is missing."

You'd be surprised how many people in America think New Mexico is part of Mexico and not the US. New Mexico magazine runs a monthly column called "one of our 50 states is missing."

Every month people send in stories about being asked to show passports or told they speak English well, etc. when they say they are from New Mexico. She's probably one of those ignorant goobers.

[bettyellen]

38. Wow! The irony of her hoping to deny educational opportunities to those kids is thick!

[Freethinker65]

3. Has CSU offered anything to the two students to compensate them yet?

[backscatter712]

4. They did.

https://collegian.com/2018/05/tony-frank-addresses-admissions-tour-incident-in-mass-email/

The administration's trying to reach out to the family. They're offering to reimburse them for the expenses they incurred traveling to CSU, and offered to give them a VIP tour.

[Freethinker65]

6. Thanks

[Hekate]

9. I hope the young men accept the invitation. I really do.

[mrs_p]

27. Me too

CSU is a great school (two grad degrees from there). They are trying to be transparent about the incident, except for releasing the woman’s name. But maybe that would be illegal?

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

10. "...trying to reach out to the family..."

Not enough. Trying by making a facebook post is pretty darn weak... "the University has tried to reach out to the family via social media.."

Follow the example of the Starbucks CEO and jump on a plane (or better yet, take the nine hour car ride the boys took) and show up at their door.

The university president had pretty words in his email to staff, but it pretty much adds up to zero.

[hlthe2b]

15. This is a public state university... The President is doing the right thing but is subject to state

legislative regulations on spending, given taxpayer dollar supported. This is not a private college or a CEO of a private company. They don't have private planes to jump on and if they ever did, I'd be leading the fight in CO to shut that down.

I think they are genuinely trying to do the right thing. This is a community that is progressive and I can tell you RIGHT now, from my perch in Fort Collins, that local residents are upset and do not have a history of bigoted behavior toward POC, Latinos, and certainly not Native Americans. I do not know where this mother hailed from, but she is not representative of this community, that is for sure.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

24. I did not mean to offend you or anyone in the community.

Thanks for your post. However, if the news reporting is correct that the university reached out "on social media," I truly hope that privately they are taking more proactive steps to reach out to this Native American family.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but had thee two young men found the tour group on their own they would no doubt have been subjected to further ostracization. Who knows, Suzie Snowflake may even have made an additional call.

Yes, the UP officers acted calmly and appropriately. However, if they had taken one more step of radioing ahead, located the tour group, and escorted the young men back to their group, there most likely would have been a higher and somewhat "official" acceptance from the group (and hopefully Suzie Snowflake would have privately gotten the message to keep her mouth shut).

[mrs_p]

28. Dr. Frank said they tried contacting

Them directly and they won’t respond. Social media is another attempt to contact them

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

32. I was going from the OP news link to the Collegian

which only mentioned social media. I've since read the president's entire statement and both officer's police reports. Interesting reading all the way around.

These two young men were clearly racially profiled. Not by the university, but clearly from helicopter mom Susie Snowflake. The young men were from New Mexico. She reports that she heard "Mexico," not that that makes her profiling any more acceptable. She could use a geography lesson. But in her call, she states one is "definitely Hispanic."

Officer Hoisington evidently knew enough to go diretly to the admissions building and report the incident to an admissions office employee. Also interesting that Officer Hoisington by coincidence ran into Susie Snowflake who re-told her story on body camera, but that one doesn't seem to be released yet.

The other officer adds: "People were just worried because you guys were real quiet and they didn't know who you were because you guys didn't show up with parents or any of that stuff."

But Susie Snowflake can be heard complaining that they were laughing.

The university has identified some problems and has now proposed several bullet points of how they are changing the entire tour procedure including better tour guide training and visitor IDs on lanyards. Very positive steps. Good ideas which I'm surprised weren't already in place.

[The Mouth]

62. jet or no,

I'm sure he has a car.

If I had that job I would have been on the road 15 seconds after I was unable to reach them on the phone.

If you're at the top you are responsible, period.

[hlthe2b]

63. yeah, yeah, yeah.. easy to say. The university HAS done the right thing and continues to.

This community has rallied around those students and if they DO choose to come they will be warmly welcomed by a very progressive locale


The university has paid for their travel and invited them to return for a personal VIP tour at the President's bequest. I doubt there are a dozen universities that would have worked so hard to make this right. Including changes to the tours and enabling tour guides to intercede and be contacted should any future issues arise. Likewise security is given tour schedules and the ability to contact the guides.

[The Mouth]

64. I have to say

the letter the president wrote was excellent. I will admit that.

Now lets see what actually happens; words are fine, only outcomes matter. I don't care how sorry anyone is about anything- was the situation completely rectified, or not.

I would guess that many universities would be in full damage control mode after such a viral SNAFU. Always easy to say 'we're sorry'; it doesn't mean jack, though, either the kids end up going there or heads should roll, whatever it takes by whoever has to do it.

[hlthe2b]

65. No university can predict a ignorant bigoted parent. The university has done what most would still

be talking about and has done it rapidly and without excuses. You are wrong in suggesting otherwise. I'm here in the community as we "speak".

[The Mouth]

66. They are luck to have you.

You are vastly more forgiving than I would ever have the capacity to be. If the president of the university is a reflection of it, I see why you're proud.

[hlthe2b]

67. Nah...thanks, but I just know and appreciate my community...Unlike other places I've lived...

I think people here (most) genuinely TRY to do the right thing.

[The Mouth]

68. yeah. apologies

I do hope they out that woman who called 911.

[ToxMarz]

22. The full sentence was actually

"At this point, we are attempting to make that contact through social media as we have not been successful through other means."

https://safety.colostate.edu/

"The resounding theme expressed to our office has been that people want to ensure we are reaching out to the young men and doing what we can to make things right. This is absolutely the University’s goal. Vice President for Enrollment and Access Leslie Taylor and I have both tried to contact the family through various means, and we have so far not been successful. Our hope is to speak with the family of the young men and to, at a minimum, reimburse their expenses and offer them another opportunity to visit our campus as VIP guests if they have any interest in doing so. At this point, we are attempting to make that contact through social media as we have not been successful through other means."

[The Mouth]

47. Way too little, much too late.

[elleng]

16. Good. Thanks

[Hekate]

5. Maybe Helicopter Mama can take her precious snowflake someplace else...

As far as I can tell, the cops acted appropriately enough -- they responded, they asked questions, they did not escalate. In other words, they were not the problem and did not make themselves the problem. Anyone would think they were accustomed to a campus population.

I can relate to those young men in this way at least: my own parents had no interest in accompanying me to a college campus either. It was like it was my responsibility to show up for classes, and what did they need a tour for? It would have meant my dad taking time off work, for one thing. I can relate to them being late -- and shy -- and not saying anything to a group of strangers, too.

And I, as I may have mentioned before, am white.

Lady, take your kid someplace else, and for gods' sake cut the umbilical cord.

[MineralMan]

43. Yeah. My friend and I took the bus to the college we were thinking about.

Our parents gave us money for a motel room. I mean, we were seniors in high school. So, we went there, walked around the campus, talked to some faculty of the department we would be majoring in, looked at the dorms, and then went home the next day.

My parents asked: "What did you think?" I said I liked the school, so that's where both of us ended up going. That was in 1963. No big deal. They dropped us off at the dorm when we could check in there, helped us carry our crap up to the room, and then got back in my dad's pickup truck and went home. No tears, no stress. Just "Do a good job and get good grades, son. Bye."

I guess they figured we were old enough to go to college, so what was the big deal? I went home about one weekend a month on the Greyhound bus and spent most of that time with my girlfriend. I mean, I was 18. I was done with being a kid. Time to do stuff for myself.

When did parents start following their kids around at college, anyhow? Who wants that?

[dsc]

49. My parents came out to see the school I went to

but I drove myself to it and moved in myself. Other than one year that my car blew on the way to the school my parents didn't see the school again until I graduated.

[lunasun]

7. Hello? 911?They don't fit in & lied aboutwhere they they are from and won't tell me what they want

to study
Their clothes are dark and unusual -( not, unless this is some preppy palace) and they were laughing
OK we will send someone over


Cops: "have you looked at other schools ? Where? "

Hey lady how does that work? So did they look like they were lying ?
Maybe they didn't talk to you cuz you were interrogating them with your mean nun ya questions

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

8. Campus police should have the cell number for the woman and

they should follow up big time.

This was shameful enough when I first read the boys' mother's account yesterday, but the audio and video just add to the shame.

The campus police failed big time. At the very least, the two verified prospective students should have been escorted back to the tour group and not just dumped on a major college campus with "have a good day."

The university administration should be falling all over themselves to rectify this situation and "scared" Susie Homemaker should be told to mind her own business.

[grumpyduck]

12. I dunno...

watching that video, it seems to me the cops were assuming the kids were guilty of something right off the top.

[Blue_Tires]

44. That's why haphazardly calling 911 all the time is so dangerous

because no matter what is going on, it's human nature to embellish the nature of the call to get a swift response, and cops arrive at the scene already prepared to arrest or shoot somebody

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Just shameful. Those poor kids.

[turbinetree]

18. I want to know what the "Probable cause was for this crap".........................

and what was the due process......................

[Lee-Lee]

25. Neither of those come into play here.

Probable cause is needed for an arrest.

Due process is what happens after an arrest.

What is in play here is called Reasonable Suspicion. It is a lower standard than Probable Cause

Reasonable Suspicion means you have suspicions a crime may have occurred or be in progress, but not enough to arrest. Reasonable Suspicion is what is needed to briefly detain and investigate to see if a crime occurred.

That is what was seen here. They briefly detained them, determined in about 3 minutes no crime occurred, and they ended the detention.

Reasonable suspicion can come from an officers own observations or that of a witness, such as the 911 caller in this case. Her call gave them Reasonable Suspicion to do a brief investigation, and in the course of that investigation they determined her call was bullshit.

[turbinetree]

34. Thank you................and it was bullshit, start to finish

[3catwoman3]

19. Why did that woman think...

...it was any of her business to ask those young men anything at all?

Butt out, busybody.

[Kurt V.]

20. sounds like the husband is responsible for the call.

[lunatica]

21. I've seen hundreds of college students that dress like that and

Wear hoodies when I worked at UC Berkeley. I’ve seen full body tattoos, nose, ear, belly button and eyebrow rings, creatively shaved heads as well as dyed hair in every color imaginable. And not just the students. Staff and Faculty too.

I’ve also seen people dressed in their ethnic clothes, including jihabs, yarmulkes and Indian and Middle Eastern turbans.

They’re no different than anyone else when it comes to everything else!

My life has been truly blessed with the world’s cultures and ethnicities. I wouldn’t change that for anything.

[Lee-Lee]

23. Idiot woman. Officers handled it pretty well

I suspect the entire encounter would have been over in under a minute had the one been able to get his phone online faster. They verified the guys were legitimately there and let them resume their journey as soon as it was verified.

[cp]

26. Gadzooks

Thanks for posting the update.
Useful to see the footage, but holy mother of god, that woman's 911 call has me grinding my teeth. That audio should be taught at every class about racism nationwide, high school and college.
To leave on a positive note, I wish the two young men a wonderful college education and a rich, happy life.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. No more racism in America, I thought

[johnp3907]

33. Interesting that the caller mentioned their clothing.

Guess she never heard of Heavy Metal. One of the guys is wearing a Cattle Decapitation t-shirt. A friend of mine used to play drums for them. They posted a link about this incident on their Facebook page and said: “Thomas Kanewakeron Gray and Skanahwati Lloyd Gray you get free guest list spots to our shows for life.”

[Cha]

39. i know.. what did she say?.. that it was weird

clothing? It looked normal to me.

They're musicians and Mohawk!

[Stainless]

35. I hope there are some significant negative repercussions in that woman's future!

She is a trouble maker who needs to be made aware that her behavior was pathetic.

[OriginalGeek]

42. On a positive note

one of the kids is wearing a Cattle Decapitation* band shirt and the band saw the pic and told them they have free passes for life to any of their concerts. Since I love Cattle Decapitation (the band) I thought that was pretty cool.


*Cattle Decapitation were founded by vegans although not all current members are. Their lyrics are pretty progressive.

Edit - my bad, They are vegetarian, not vegan.

[lunasun]

54. See this logo, call 911 ! Find out they are vegetarian, deny bail hearing !

Native Americans harassed for lying about thier immigration status

If I was a foreign student from any Western Hemisphere nation south of the US I'd look elsewhere
Actually I believe I read foreign enrollment is down in the US overall

[budkin]

45. It's Obama's fault

Right?

[grumpyduck]

46. Isn't there something

about making a false call to 911, like it's a misdemeanor or something?

[LisaL]

50. That's for a deliberately false call, which this woman was not making.

The woman even says on 911 call that she just might be paranoid. She wasn't trying to deliberately deceive 911.

[grumpyduck]

52. Darn.

[betsuni]

51. Shout out to the shy and quiet!

Some people really do attribute nefarious or negative reasons to a perfectly normal personality type. We just can't think of anything to say.

[lunasun]

57. Oftein schools now they are profiled. My daughter had a shy friend she is being put in a labeled box

and it's over analyzed IMO there were always shy kids but now that must be explored .
Her parents are not happy she is a good student with no issues
This would make me retreat into my shell even more

[exboyfil]

59. They speak up and they are uppity

Or disruptive. In other words they can't occupy white man's space for any reason.

[Anon-C]

53. Why can't the white woman making this absurd report be identified?

Why can't the University of Florida faculty member who tackled only black graduates protesting be identified?

Why can't the General Manager at Sambuca 360 who threw out the seated, paying, there first black couple be identified?

The Starbucks Manager from the incident in Philly was identified by some on line; her life isn't over, she's not under physical threat , but she's born some stigma and measure of social repercussions.

So why are these folks not being named and shamed publicly????????

Huh?

[Blue_Adept]

58. Why can't the University of Florida faculty member who tackled only black graduates...

Wasn't the full video showing him doing that to all the students that did that, not just the black students?

[average_mo_dem]

56. This is about the 'See something, say something' stuff

Not racism.