HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » We Just Didn't Know

Sat May 5, 2018, 11:35 PM

We Just Didn't Know

Much has been said over the past year and a half about Democrats still being in shock that Hillary Clinton did not win the 2016 election – and we are. Members of either party can be surprised by their candidate’s loss. It is part and parcel of being a political participant. Someone who puts their time, their effort, and their money into a campaign, and then backs it up with a vote at the ballot box, is invariably disappointed when their candidate-of-choice becomes an also-ran rather than POTUS.

But we are not as shocked by Hillary’s loss so much as we are shocked at Trump’s win. And that shock is the result of the fact that we just didn’t know as much as we thought we did about our fellow citizens.

We just didn’t know how many of our countrymen would be ill-informed enough to elect a well-known con-man to the highest office in the nation – and more to the point, the most powerful position on the planet.

We just didn’t know that people who believe themselves to be decent human beings would vote for someone who publicly mocked a disabled reporter, and openly laughed at his disability.

We just didn’t know that so-called Christians would turn their backs on the God they allegedly adore, in order to worship a man whose entire life’s history is fraught with behaviour that is the antithesis of Christian values.

We just didn’t know that seemingly intelligent Americans would embrace such obvious stupidity, that even the most poorly-educated among us lacked the basic common sense necessary to recognize the flim-flam of an experienced huckster.

We just didn’t know that the bigots and racists who lurk among us were so anxious to be recognized for what they are – and would actually take pride in doing so.

We just didn’t know that those who tout themselves as “people of religious faith” would abandon the tenets of their religion in order to install a liar, a cheat, and self-declared “pussy-grabber” in the Oval Office.

We just didn’t know that people who call themselves America-loving patriots would vote for the destruction of their own country, and the demise of every value it stands for.

The fact is we underestimated you. We underestimated your self-imposed ignorance and your abject stupidity. We underestimated your ability to recognize an arrogant, self-serving idiot when you saw one – one who demonstrated his selfish idiocy long before a ballot was cast. We underestimated your skill at knowing the truth when it was apparent, and your willingness to accept the oh-so-obvious lies instead.

We underestimated your unfettered desire to see your fellow citizens die for lack of affordable healthcare, to watch our environment destroyed, to sit in silence as our nation’s institutions are demeaned, to stand on the sidelines while decent people are called terrorists, rapists, drug-dealers and criminals based solely on their ethnicity, their race, their religion, or their country of origin. Above all, we underestimated the power of your seething hatred.

It was our mistake. We gave you the benefit of the doubt. We told ourselves that there were those “on the other side of the aisle” who were too smart, too decent, too patriotic to put Donald J. Trump in the White House. We convinced ourselves that despite our political differences, you were the decent people you have now proven yourselves incapable of ever being.

But not to worry – it is a mistake we will never make again.

86 replies, 10210 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 86 replies Author Time Post
Reply We Just Didn't Know (Original post)
NanceGreggs May 2018 OP
CaliforniaPeggy May 2018 #1
olegramps May 2018 #29
regnaD kciN May 2018 #43
Ligyron May 2018 #69
Hortensis May 2018 #53
Wellstone ruled May 2018 #2
Takket May 2018 #3
NoMoreRepugs May 2018 #4
lunamagica May 2018 #5
NanceGreggs May 2018 #6
orleans May 2018 #9
EffieBlack May 2018 #79
rusty quoin May 2018 #7
Pepsidog May 2018 #8
MustLoveBeagles May 2018 #10
PatrickforO May 2018 #11
certainot May 2018 #72
BigmanPigman May 2018 #12
Sherman A1 May 2018 #20
Nay May 2018 #49
BigmanPigman May 2018 #57
Nay May 2018 #64
BigmanPigman May 2018 #66
Nay May 2018 #67
BigmanPigman May 2018 #68
EffieBlack May 2018 #80
Nay May 2018 #86
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #56
secondwind May 2018 #13
Gidney N Cloyd May 2018 #14
smirkymonkey May 2018 #15
Meowmee May 2018 #16
betsuni May 2018 #17
maddiemom May 2018 #22
Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #24
Martin Eden May 2018 #18
Sherman A1 May 2018 #21
Bluepinky May 2018 #19
Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #23
Gothmog May 2018 #25
defacto7 May 2018 #26
yallerdawg May 2018 #27
nolabear May 2018 #28
Fresh_Start May 2018 #30
pazzyanne May 2018 #36
BSdetect May 2018 #31
pazzyanne May 2018 #32
Funtatlaguy May 2018 #33
Fiendish Thingy May 2018 #34
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #55
Politicub May 2018 #35
pazzyanne May 2018 #37
BlueJac May 2018 #38
cp May 2018 #39
sunonmars May 2018 #40
jimlup May 2018 #41
Haggis for Breakfast May 2018 #71
jimlup May 2018 #75
ladym55 May 2018 #42
EffieBlack May 2018 #81
dalton99a May 2018 #44
calimary May 2018 #45
lordsummerisle May 2018 #46
Gothmog May 2018 #47
kimbutgar May 2018 #48
Marty Marzipan May 2018 #50
saidsimplesimon May 2018 #51
nancy1942 May 2018 #52
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #54
The Wizard May 2018 #58
Scurrilous May 2018 #59
ismnotwasm May 2018 #60
Different Drummer May 2018 #61
NastyRiffraff May 2018 #62
EffieBlack May 2018 #82
NastyRiffraff May 2018 #85
rock May 2018 #63
Mr. Ected May 2018 #65
catrose May 2018 #70
Ilsa May 2018 #73
StevieM May 2018 #74
EffieBlack May 2018 #83
Kath2 May 2018 #76
MyOwnPeace May 2018 #77
EffieBlack May 2018 #78
mr_lebowski May 2018 #84

Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2018, 11:39 PM

1. Brava, Nance! Perfectly put.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:52 AM

29. It is right on except that it neglects the effects of over forty years of propaganda.

24/7 the radio waves are saturated propaganda that casts the Democrats, i.e., those evil liberals, as un-American, flag burning traitors, ungodly destroyers of everything decent, spreading their sexual perversion under the guise of liberal sex education. The propagandists have created a monolithic party that is totally consumed with absolute hatred of anyone who does not subscribe to their revulsion of those who disagree with their dogma.

It is the epitome of fascism with its inherent elementary base of pure racism at it core. Trump simply taped into this cesspool and rode that horse to victory. At the present time, and as for that matter hopefully never, there is absolutely no way that Democrats can stay faithful to the constitution and accommodate any Republican crawling out of this swamp land in which they flourish.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to olegramps (Reply #29)

Sun May 6, 2018, 11:44 AM

43. Ever since Nixon/Agnew...

...which was, in itself, a refinement of Tricky Dick's own strategy during the McCarthy years. As hard as it may be to believe, there was a time when politicians, even on the right, could have sharp differences of opinion on issues without impugning the patriotism and personal character of anyone who disagreed with them.

Thirty years ago, after Bush 41 defeated Dukakis, one pundit was asked if we now had a "permanent conservative majority." He replied that he didn't know if there was a conservative majority, but that, due to Republican propaganda, there was unquestionably an anti-liberal majority — and this was before Fox News. Now, that "majority" has obviously shrunk to a rather-large minority (otherwise, Obama could never have been elected), but there are still enough voters out there who respond to "liberal" much as Pavlov's dogs responded to the ringing bell — it sends them into a frenzy of anger and fear that makes them reflexively vote against that candidate, no matter how manifestly-unworthy the alternative is. And, as we've seen, if enough of those voters happen to fall in certain geographic regions, they can give that unworthy candidate the victory, even if the alleged "liberal" gets more votes nationwide.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #43)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:36 PM

69. Well stated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:35 PM

53. Yes but left out: Some enormously failed to realize WHAT WE WOULD LOSE.

Commitment. Conviction. Strength. Putting those dreadful mistakes behind and advancing.

COUNTDOWN TO TAKING CONTROL OF CONGRESS: 183 days!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2018, 11:42 PM

2. You did it again. Bravo!!!!

 

This is the DU member formerly known as Wellstone ruled.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:03 AM

3. great post...........

drumpf is an awful person and it easy to direct all our anger over the destruction of American values at him... but the truth is he can only do what he does if enabled to do so........... i knew there was a hate and racism and stupidity in this country, but it is the kind of thing you thought only effected a few percent........... well in truth it is anywhere for 33% to 40% of our country and the rest of us have to unite to get America back to being the shining beacon on the hill and not the disgrace we are now.

there's no saving the deplorables' souls, we just have to drag them along with us to prosperity, kicking and screaming

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:12 AM

4. The t-RUMP pResidency will ruin more friendships

and family relationships than any other event in history. How can u take a t-RUMP voter seriously or have true respect for their intelligence? I know I can't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:18 AM

5. Excellent, Nance, as always. I agree with everything except that

' We underestimated your self-imposed ignorance and your abject stupidity."

I think they knew exactly what they were voting for, and got what they wanted. That's why his popularity remains high among them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunamagica (Reply #5)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:21 AM

6. Yes, they knew ...

... exactly what they were voting for - which was a direct result of their self-imposed ignorance and abject stupidity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #6)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:48 AM

9. and selfishness n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to orleans (Reply #9)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:54 PM

79. And bigotry

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:26 AM

7. Oh hell yes!

 

There is no longer any reason to begin to give these fucking so called Christians any space for argument. They are a CULT. And I do not include the real Christians I have known.

Isn’t this the guy they warned about acting in Satan’s place, as head of the United States? They blamed Obama for that, and I don’t believe in that stuff, but this guy Trump has washed their brains, and if Satan were real, he would be his guy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:33 AM

8. Just a pleasure to read. Thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 01:24 AM

10. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 01:50 AM

11. Definitely a mistake we won't make again.

We will roll over the ignorant racist haters at the ballot box.
This is the DU member formerly known as PatrickforO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #11)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:32 PM

72. as long as the dem party and progressive orgs continue to ignore talk radio it can happen again

ignoring talk radio is the only reason trump got anywhere near the white house, like bush and palin before that.

the trump team STUDIED talk radio, and dems still have no clue it's kicking our ass

from New York Magazine, Operation Trump, by Gabriel Sherman April 3, 2016

Throughout 2014, the three (Roger Stone, Michael Cohen, and Sam Nunberg fed Trump strategy memos and political intelligence. “I listened to thousands of hours of talk radio, and he was getting reports from me,” Nunberg recalled. What those reports said was that the GOP base was frothing over a handful of issues including immigration, Obamacare, and Common Core.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:04 AM

12. I knew.

I am not bragging but I knew and so did Michael Moore and Bill Maher for the very reasons you mentioned. I said he would win when he was on that escalator. You can ask people who know me. I knew because I am a realist and everything you listed is part of my realistic view of the current, average voters in this country. My reasoning was always, "Americans are stupid and ignorant". Of course he won. I would have been surprised if he hadn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #12)

Sun May 6, 2018, 06:19 AM

20. Agreed

I originally believed that a cardboard box 📦 could beat him, but as I listened to Michael Moore I began to think otherwise. I hoped that I would be wrong, but that ship sailed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #12)

Sun May 6, 2018, 01:08 PM

49. I'm with you, BP. I was immediately terrified that Trump would indeed win -- he

embodied totally the stupid and ignorant and selfish results of a late capitalist society. I was almost sure he would win (I hoped that gobs of women coming out to vote would save Hillary), but frankly, I had that bad premonition. Now I'm trapped in the nightmare.

Some other posters have referred to the power of propaganda -- that's the other aspect of this society that has turned whole swaths of people into mindless robots for the right. They know nothing else. It's been 40 years (at least) of incredibly effective propaganda (never forget that TV, radio, and now the internet are incredibly powerful opinion shapers) against anything decent, and now the country is populated with the products of that purposeful campaign.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #49)

Sun May 6, 2018, 03:17 PM

57. The thing is that all of the elements

that were part of the moron's win are still in place today...2018 and 2020 could easily be repeats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #57)

Sun May 6, 2018, 04:58 PM

64. Oh, no question. 2018 will be the test -- if Dems don't sweep the elections, we'll

know we are in a really bad place. It has to happen or -- well, I can't contemplate. What's sad is that if a bunch of newly-elected Dems don't immediately get down to fixing things that the old-guard Dems just tinkered with or ignored over the years, we'll be in the same damn situation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #64)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:08 PM

66. Be prepared for it mentally and emotionally...

just in case. Stranger things have happened. Just like Bill Maher told his audience the other night when they were cheering for a blue wave in the midterms, "Don't get giddy". Bill (and Michael Moore and myself) all said that the moron would win and look where we are right now. Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. There is still MSM trying to get the ratings ($$$), Russian interference, unsecured voting, Fux Ruse and RW radio, the big money donors, social media spewing lies and prejudice, and the economy is going well. And the biggie...The American voters are just as ignorant and hateful as ever (maybe even more so since their leader has allowed it).

Do your best to donate in small sums, volunteer at phone banks, hit the pavement and knock on doors, drive people to the polls and get people to vote!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #66)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:19 PM

67. Even though I'm a cynical monster and thought Trump could surely win considering

how backward and ignorant so many Americans are, I was in a funk for MONTHS afterward. MONTHS. Like many others, I considered anti-depressants. Luckily, I am retired and no longer have to associate with anyone unless I want to. That helps my mental state a whole lot.

If it happens again, well, I don't know. We may start spending more time out of the country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #67)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:30 PM

68. That is a good plan. Definitely spend as much time away

if you can afford it. Your mind and body will be healthier. I saw this thread and thought you might want to read it.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210583604

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #49)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:56 PM

80. Propaganda played a role, but propaganda only grows in fertile soil

These people were ripe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #80)

Mon May 7, 2018, 11:53 AM

86. Oh, no doubt about that. There are, and always have been, authoritarian/racist/sexist

people in this country. Millions of them. But the value of 40 yrs of propaganda is that it has convinced many more millions simply by its incessant drumbeat of authoritarian, religious right, and racist ideals for a whole generation now. Lots of people are easily manipulated into doing whatever the prevailing culture tells them to, and the prevailing culture here is a toxic mix of attitudes like this:
--buying more stuff makes you happier
--white males are the top of the heap, and don't you forget it or we'll get violent
--I've got mine, and fuck you
--anyone on welfare is a lazy cheater

Then you add in the fact that the rich, through Citizen United and other ways, buy their way into the system and twist it to their greedy desires. This distorts the system for all the rest of us, who have to deal with the fallout (crummy jobs, lousy/expensive health care, crummy schools, Nazi-like police officers, run-amok military contractors, etc.).

It culminates in the election of a creature like Trump, who is the embodiment of greed, ignorance, racism, sexism, and a bunch of other -isms. It's going to be a scary ride all the way through.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #12)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:43 PM

56. Count me in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:12 AM

13. Your best post ever ...... amazingly ACCURATE


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 03:54 AM

14. "We just didn't know that the bigots and racists who lurk among us were so anxious to be recognized"

"We just didn’t know that the bigots and racists who lurk among us were so anxious to be recognized for what they are – and would actually take pride in doing so. "
(My favorite line in a really wonderful post. Thanks, Nance!)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 04:06 AM

15. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:23 AM

16. Part of me

Is still very much in shock at this whole situation but I knew most of those things were true about way too many people here- but it still feels like a shock to have it confirmd by how many people voted for that pos fake prez and how many still support him. I dont consider him to have won though, she won the popular vote and the rest was a fraud on many levels.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:59 AM

17. I just watched Fran Lebowitz interviewed, said about the Trump win

that she didn't see it coming, was 100% wrong (didn't know about Russian interference) and:

"I knew there were a lot of stupid people in this country, I've lived here my whole life. I didn't realize there were that many. I watched these rallies ... and why is there all that emotion? And that emotion is apparently the sheer happiness at expressing your bigotry that you've kept under cover for the past 40 years in this country."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to betsuni (Reply #17)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:32 AM

22. As often noted: HALF of all Americans/people in general...

are of below average intelligence. As George Carlin memorably put it: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to betsuni (Reply #17)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:40 AM

24. Yes, they are very happy that they can flaunt their racism and bigotry now. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 06:03 AM

18. Trump is a symptom, not the disease

The American electorate is fertile ground for a lying demagogue. If the strength of a country is in its people, we are in serious trouble.

The youth of America has to step forward and save us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Martin Eden (Reply #18)

Sun May 6, 2018, 06:21 AM

21. Precisely

He is a result of the disease, which he exploited very well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 06:07 AM

19. My favorite line: "We just didn't know

that people who call themselves America-loving patriots would vote for the destruction of their own country, and the demise of every value it stands for.”

Sad but true. Our country is being dismantled piece by piece.

Party over country didn’t start with Trump, but it has expanded since he became President. Republicans will do anything to stay in power, even collude with an outside hostile government. And at the root of the collusion is money and greed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:38 AM

23. I wish I was as confident as you.

I fear for our future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:36 AM

25. Great post Nance

This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:42 AM

26. Excellent. ..

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:45 AM

27. We had no idea people would actually vote for this lying fraud - in the millions.

We definitely woke up the next day in a sad strange new world - shocked.

Now - we wake up each day uneasy that he is still there, that political party stands by him, and it could all happen again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:47 AM

28. We need to tell ourselves again and again. We suspended our disbelief.

We were blind in part because we idealize Americans and in part because to “know” in that way is really scary. And it requires a lot of us.

We need to be an army.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:11 AM

30. Nance...for me, I just didn't know how much they hated other Americans

even Americans in the same ethnic group just because of our different political beliefs.

The fact that they prefer a foreign power to have access and control of the highest levels of our government to having Americans with slightly different values is why I despair that we can ever be a functioning country again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #30)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:32 AM

36. And to add to that,

they hate even Americans in their own families. I cannot believe the hatred being express by some of my family members. I cannot believe that relatively intelligent people refuse to see what is before their eyes. And, yes, I have a family member or two who has said to my face that I need to suck it up and enjoy the ride that they had to do during the Obama years. Could not believe that these people I grew up with were that racist. They do this out of evangelical cultism and racism, and don't leave out just plain nastiness. I am heartbroken. Out of my family of 6, my youngest brother, my Mom (who passed away 6 months ago) and I were "liberals" and deserved to be hated and reviled for our beliefs. My sister, my middle brother, and my oldest brother (who passed away 4 months ago) are Republicans. Those brothers were not zealots, also not evangelicals. My sister is a cultist in her religion and in her politics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:13 AM

31. k&r

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:18 AM

32. K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:19 AM

33. As always, Nance Greggs puts out there

What most of us think but aren’t able to state so eloquently.
You are a national treasure, NG.
I wish you were one of our country’s leaders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:31 AM

34. We just didn't know: how effective the complicity of FB/CA and Russian propagandists

Would be at manipulating/suppressing the vote through micro targeting voters, especially in the Rust belt, so that Trump eked out a narrow Electoral College victory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #34)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:41 PM

55. Or how effective the media would be in helping tRump by convincing everyone...

that the election was "in the bag" for Hillary, right up to election night, and inviting complacency.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:31 AM

35. More eyes are opened now

That is my hope, at least. And we have a lot of work to do.

I would rather know who we are truly dealing with than not. Though it is disheartening to think of the sheer number of people who agree with Trump's caustic ideology. There are more deplorables that I could have ever imagined.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Politicub (Reply #35)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:34 AM

37. K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:48 AM

38. K&R 100 times

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:55 AM

39. K&R

Thank you.
This is the DU member formerly known as cp.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:58 AM

40. First chance we get we take down those so called "evangelists" and cripple their money network.

They need to be finished off.

As for people like Trump, they must never be allowed to flourish ever again, him and his family should be in jail years ago for their so called "business".

Never must be stand down in the face of these rats, they must be called out on every little thing.

As for the media, they must not be allowed to be ever be so destructive. Fox news needs it licence stripped for being so partisan and some new rules put in place to make sure this never happens again.

As for the Presidency, needs new rules, new laws.

1 : It should be a crime to lie to the American people.
2 : Pardons and their use must be reviewed with new rules.
3 : No more running for Presidency without full disclosure of finance and personal information. Tax,legal problems, must be disclosed.
4 : If you want to be President, you must fully divest of everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 11:26 AM

41. I still don't accept the idea that we actually lost

My suspicion is that enough votes were flipped in several key states to give the win to Drumpf, my home state of Michigan being one of them.

Our "nation" has been hacked and we still don't recognize the extent nor do we completely realize the implications. We have buried our heads in the sand rather than face the truth. We can't even admit it in public for fear of being called a "conspiracy theorist tin foil hat wearing crazy"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jimlup (Reply #41)

Sun May 6, 2018, 06:33 PM

71. Well, when it comes right down to it

Remember that he lost by 3 million votes, closer to 8 million if you tally all of the votes not for him.

It was the electoral college who put him in office. I am glad that many states are adopting new laws concerning how their electoral votes are counted. Candidate with the most of the popular vote, gets the electoral votes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #71)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:52 PM

75. I think it went still deeper

I think there was direct vote tampering by the Russians in the following states:

Florida
North Carolina
Michigan
Wisconsin
Pensylvania

Probably more. But also look at New Hampshire and Nevada that didn't matter. Trump didn't do so well even though the pre-election polling had them as dead heats. Something more than an out dated electoral college system put that fucker in as PROTUS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 11:40 AM

42. Such a powerful piece

Like you, I knew there were lots of ignorant and racist white people out there--I just didn't know HOW MANY. I live in a state that went for Trump by 8 points!!!! Hillary and the Dems ran strong in the urban areas, but out in the land of the White Evangelical (emphasis on white), Trump was their boy--and even more important, he was bringing in MIKE PENCE!! Mike was going to protect all those unborn babies (Hillary was going to abort them at 9 months!!!) and save us from all those gay people.

Sadly I know many Trump voters--supposedly educated people who will never not vote Republican. Scratch their surface, and it reveals their true tragedy. They are terrified of losing their precious white privilege. Their "Christianity" is based on protecting that privilege. (See? Jesus loves ME best because I am white and wealthy and have a nice house, blonde wife, and assorted perfect blonde children.) Their patriotism is based on closing the door on any and all who look different.

I still hear about white economic anxiety (apparently people of color don't experience economic anxiety -- who knew?), but the bottom line is racism--fear of the other and fear of losing privilege. If it costs them their health care, their jobs, and their security, it doesn't matter because then THOSE people won't get any.

It is time for all of us who care about ALL of us to make sure the blue wave is a tsunami.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ladym55 (Reply #42)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:59 PM

81. This!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 11:52 AM

44. Kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 11:58 AM

45. This whole sordid era keeps underscoring something

I regret that I’ve been compelled to conclude. I keep coming back to what to me is the uncomfortable bottom line about trump supporters:

“Then what does that say about THEM?”

A friend who voted for trump while justifying “oh, I WANT a woman president. Just not THAT woman!” - once lectured me: “you have to understand these voters!” As though there were something high-minded about their horrifyingly tragic WILLFUL ignorance (even PROUD ignorance: “I know what I know! So go away and stop arguing with me!”). Or that there was something really noble and “heartland-American” about what I’d begun to suspect was a deep seated racism and misogyny and resentment for being forced to share “their” America with “the Other”. And, I feared, that “Other” president.

A while ago I began to suspect that the hatred and/or resentment of Barack Obama’s rise all the way to the White House was a deep-down inner disgust that there was a black guy in the Oval Office and he wasn’t the janitor. I spent a long time trying to beat back that suspicion. “No,” I told myself. “Couldn’t be that. These are those noble hard-scrapple ‘heartland’ Americans, simple, salt-of-the-Earth ‘God-fearing’ churchgoing folks who call it like it is, and just are misunderstood or so perennially beaten down and...”

And blah-blah-blah.

Bullshit! I was right about them the first time. That indeed WAS their problem. They really did hate the idea that there was a black guy in the Oval Office and he wasn’t the janitor. And, later on, they were hellbent on making sure there wouldn’t be a woman in the Oval Office who wasn’t the cleaning lady.

You totally nail it here, Nance. This IS what they are and who they are. And as we’ve seen many times by now, many of ‘em are out ‘n’ proud about it, too. This is America’s dirty little secret.

THEY are America’s dirty little secret. All they’ve done, as all this time has gone by, is to reconfirm that, over and over again.

“Heart”land America my ass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:03 PM

46. Outstanding post k&r n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:30 PM

47. Trump supporters are idiots and racists

No one knew that trump supporters were so stupid or that this idiots were so racist and full of hate.

We will not make this mistake again
This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:51 PM

48. And as this administration continues to increase its powers and destroys our country

It’s getter harder for me to say, I am proud of my country or love my country. The 40% who are cruel, shameless,and unpatriotic racists will end up suffering more in the end. When I hear right wingers say they hate liburals and want them all dead (I think of the guy on Samatha Bee at the Twitler rally or my husbands mexican co worker who says all liburals should be shot) it’s getting harder for me to not feel the same way about them


FYI I am a bleeding heart liberal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:01 PM

50. Very well put...

In short, we just didn't know Americans were so STUPID!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:05 PM

51. Nance, some knew

and allowed Mrs. Clinton to make strategic errors in the campaign. Just my opinion

But not to worry – it is a mistake we will never make again.
This is the DU member formerly known as saidsimplesimon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:30 PM

52. Well said.

I truly did not realize how ignorant a large percentage of voters actually were; and apparently they still are. This has been a nightmare to wrap my head around. It hurts.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:35 PM

54. When did this happen that "We convinced ourselves that despite our political differences...

... you were the decent people you have now proven yourselves incapable of ever being"? I highly doubt many underestimated those dumb fucks who voted for that racist, Nazi, POS occupying the White House, and who have been, still are, and will always be the scum of the earth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 03:30 PM

58. They chose to believe the lies about a woman

and ignore the truth about a man.
But give credit to Trump for using social media to play mainstream media like a cheap fiddle. He got four times the coverage of Hillary, as if his mindless blathering was legitimate discourse.
Trump exploited the great dumbing down that was first fostered by George Wallace and Spiro Agnew.
We are getting our just rewards for being willfully ignorant and too lazy to either vote or helping the campaign getting others to vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 03:32 PM

59. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 03:33 PM

60. Yup

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 03:53 PM

61. Great as always, Nance!

As I usually do with your posts, I have bookmarked this one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 04:38 PM

62. "Trump Voters Driven by Fear of Losing Status, Not Economic Anxiety, Study Finds"

A study published on Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences questions that explanation, the latest to suggest that Trump voters weren’t driven by anger over the past, but rather fear of what may come. White, Christian and male voters, the study suggests, turned to Mr. Trump because they felt their status was at risk.

“It’s much more of a symbolic threat that people feel,’’ said Diana C. Mutz, the author of the study and a political science and communications professor at the University of Pennsylvania, where she directs the Institute for the Study of Citizens and Politics. “It’s not a threat to their own economic well-being; it’s a threat to their group’s dominance in our country over all.”

New York Times

That's something most of us suspected, but we were told that We Must Reach Out to those voters to Draw Them Into the Democratic Party. In fact, we were soundly scolded when we in turn said that some of them are unreachable. Their union jobs in manufacturing that Trump promised them were beside the point; they were only a symbol of what they had and what they wanted BACK, dammit!

Great post, Nance, as usual.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #62)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:01 PM

82. We're STILL being told that

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #82)

Mon May 7, 2018, 10:45 AM

85. You're right; I shouldn't have used the past tense.

It just makes me so damn mad!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 04:45 PM

63. Nailed it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 05:03 PM

65. You had me until the very last sentence

I'm not fully certain this isn't something that couldn't happen again.

America has been ripped in 2, and when facts are peddled by the opposition as fallacies, no true cure can easily be found.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 06:08 PM

70. Sadly, we did not know

and gave so many benefits of so many doubts and did unto others as we wanted others to do unto us. For which they laughed at our stupidity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:46 PM

73. We just didn't know so many people would give Russia a walk. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 08:50 PM

74. A huge part of the anti-Hillary narrative was "we just didn't know," even though it was never

presented in that manner.

HRC was hugely popular when she was Secretary of State, leaving office with 69 percent job approval, 66 percent favorability. The media has completely ignored that part of American history. We never heard anything about her being corrupt. We never heard that about her when she was in the Senate.

Then she runs for president and we are suddenly told that she was a criminal all along. And people fell for it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StevieM (Reply #74)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:02 PM

83. YES!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:18 PM

76. Right on!

Well said, as always.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:28 PM

77. We didn't know...........

that the Constitution is real and cannot be claimed by one party, or disregarded by another. It is law - and it is right to expect, nay, DEMAND ALL to adhere to it, including ALL elected into government offices - especially those in the United States Congress and the office of the President.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 09:52 PM

78. Brilliant, as usual, Nance!



I'm going to save this for the next time someone tells me we need to understand and be careful not to offend these people so we can coax them into our tent.

I don't WANT them in my tent ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:39 PM

84. Fool me once? Shame on ... shame on ... you ... fool me ... can't get fooled again! (nt)

This is the DU member formerly known as mr_lebowski.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread