For a little perspective, let this sink in:

sets of investigations were (are) run by republicans!.

I frequent a conservative forum from time to time and I like to remind them of just that point.

I also like to point out that since 1980 that the majority of the presidencies have been republican, the republicans have controlled congress for more years, and the majority of governorships have been Republican. So, when they complain about government, it’s s government they’ve dominated and shaped for the majority of those years.

The government they mostly control goes on to appoint republicans to various positions and they then proceed to get upset with them and hate them.

Republicans are all sorts of fucked up.

make a very, very long thread. Who can even remember all of them? No one.

COUNTDOWN TO SPITTING ON THEIR PHONY INVESTIGATIONS: 183 days.

Can't believe that they can do this with straight faces. Of course distractions are distractions.

Of course some Republican leaders are clear-eyed cynics who know what they do, but I'm very sure most of them are exactly the kind of people who'd believe their own propaganda.

Until this country stops indulging right-wing f*** witery, both ways, we're just going to keep going closer and closer to the edge.

1. We now know that people tend to choose their political group and as part of that group choose to accept its leaders and then adopt the positions of that group's leaders. Shockingly, it's not vice versa. Group and leaders first, then positions, changing as instructed by the leaders they accepted. Sure, some are more independent thinkers, but more are not and most conservatives are especially vulnerable.

2. The leadership on the right has been taken over by wealthy archconservatives and stocked with politicians who serve their interests by institutionalizing corruption. They work through the right because they're more in line ideologically and more vulnerable to bad leadership. But these are the people who tell Republican voters what to think and support.

Trump's an anomaly, a voter rebellion against the wealthy string-pullers, but they've got him half harnessed and, by surrounding him mostly with their people and horse-whispering through Fox, etc., largely working for them. And the vast majority of Republican voters follow him as their leader.

3. Today, needless to say, Repub voters are responding to terrible leadership. But this has been going on for years, molding them into almost the worst possible versions of their political selves. Under good leadership, they would behave very differently, as good leaders encouraged.

4. We can't take this current crop of leaders out and shoot them, we have to try, try, try again to vote them out. But that's not "indulging" anything. This tsunami of right-wing corruption at all levels from president down to and including their voters happened overwhelmingly on the right and is THEIR doing and their fault. Not ours.

5. It did not happen on the left, although they're working hard to turn enough of our our voters into tools to stop us right now. They succeeded in 2016.

6. COUNTDOWN TO PUTTING PRINCIPLED DEMOCRATS IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS: 182 days.

1) We are pretty much in agreement.

2) To clarify my point about this country indulging them, IMO, this country is basically divided into 1/3s, not 1/2s. Their 1/3, the people who are totally in line with whatever lunacy the conservative media complex drives, our 1/3, people who for whatever reason are immune it and mostly have an attachment to reality and common sense, and the "middle" 1/3 that is not truly tuned in, but tend to break the wrong way more often than not based on their biases and just generally hearing the right scream like lunatics all the time. When I say this country indulges right wing fuck wittery, I am talking about:

3) The right wing 1/3 who allow their souls to be poisoned by right wing hate and division in the first place. I know it is a lost cause with them, but end of the day, they choose their biases, prejudices and fears to over ride common sense, and their own interests.

4) The "middle" 1/3 for allowing their biases to influence them, but also for just hearing the noise and wanting to believe "they are both same" to allow them to get behind right wing lunacy.

5) I have had heart burn over this my entire adult life - three decades now.

* In my younger, more naive years I was beffuddled over their deranged hatred of Clinton, and knew their well crafted talking points in the 90s was bullshit

* my anger over how they spent 6 years post 9-11 using that as a political sledge hammer, supporting BHO over Hillary because while I knew they would be assholes, but felt he was so calm and cool, it would be less horrible with him, and somehow they were just as big of assholes

* the 2010 mid terms, when this country, for no good, god damn reason, after two years, gave the repubicans the biggest mid term whitewash in our lives because they threw a hissy fit over dems PASSING THEIR GD VERSION OF HEALTH CARE - I was merely skeptical until that point, but that was the moment when I knew this country was fucked.

* I told people when he came down the escalator that 45 was not joke, that he was a serious threat to win the nomination, and if he did, while I did not say for sure, this country was absolutely stupid enough to make him POTUS.

Two considerations - the slide has been exponential, they went from the bullshit, but well crafted talking points in the 90s, to just bullying their way through the 2000s because they were keeping us safe, to waking up every morning and throwing a fit over the first thing they saw on cable news and making it BHOs fault, to coming out of the closet with 45. AND, the media has slide along with them, another aspect of our "indulging" them. Allowing our media to dutifully follow their frames - liberal bad, conservative good.

FINAL POINT - These years have been marked by them taking us several steps closer to fascism, with brief periods of our being able to slow them down, but the march continues. Yeah, god willing, we have a big day in November, but the middle in the democratic party (see, when we passed health care we passed THEIR GOD DAMN VERSION OF IT) AND, they now have so many dumpster fires going we are NOT going to turn it around, we simply are going to slow it.

We did two things primarily in 06-08 - banking reform and health care reform, both have been all but unraveled already.

But still don't like the idea that we "indulged" the right. More like we couldn't stop them. It's not that many educated, and many powerful, Democrats didn't see it happening and try, but there are huge limits to what we can control. I always wish people would ask, "Is this me I'm describing?" You and I both know the answer for ourselves is, "Hell, no!" No numbers, of course, but I don't really doubt that goes for most other voters on the left.

Although I agree with your thirds evaluation too, there are various ways this pie can be sliced for evaluation depending on factors considered. Just looking at the huge factor of underlying personality, though, that's basically conservative and liberal. Our large broken center was made up of moderates of both types; researchers say there's no "moderate" personality type.

But in any case, today's government corruption and dangerous instability are overwhelmingly caused by conservatives and the fight against the growth of corruption in government, business, and the minds of voters is overwhelmingly coming from liberals. (Btw, the Repubs have not been able to completely destroy our recent banking reforms, some of which still constrain business, and the ACA, though taking heavy hits, is currently mostly functioning at intended.) Yes, though, in hindsight we could and should always have done more, better, sooner.

Above all, Democrats by the millions should have become aware, alarmed and -- somehow -- managed to stop and reverse the intensely destructive influence on democracy of soaring wealth accumulating in new ultrawealthy classes. It's not that it's not happened before and we haven't been forced to stop and defeat it back before. But neither have we been in a position before where technology caused wealth to quadruple over 30 years and at the same time gave the newly ultrawealthy new information technology tools and knowledge to twist nearly 100 million voters to serve them. They also had the advantage this time of hindsight in realizing over 40 years ago now that, in order to hold onto and continue to grow their wealth and power, they had to first divide the electorate so we couldn't form majorities to stop them. I wouldn't describe this weakness, large indifference among the electorate until it exploded in our faces, and failure indulgence, though. That implies a degree of complicity that goes beyond mere normal fecklessness. Like you I've watched it happen since the "Reagan revolution" and not felt the least indulgent.

In my house, heartburn is what happens when you realize you're literally jumping up and down in rage in front of the TV because some conservatives, who no doubt voted for 45 years of tax cuts, are expressing society's humble gratitude for billionaire charity gifts to their embattled state college.

while the charges were mostly trumped up, the Whitewater investigation in the 1990s did produce several indictments. Though, not the Clintons themselves.

For that very reason. Even more, McDougal was already in legal trouble because of various financial irregularities related to his bank. Whitewater came out because of that, and the Clintons association discovered because of that. For those not around back then, the Whitewater land development was a relatively small issue among bigger serious legal problems for its developer, McDougal.

It became nationally known because the Clintons invested money in the project, because Bill Clinton had been elected president by then, and because the Republican Party had by then been taken over by conscienceless and unprincipled right-wing seekers of power. They misused government to persecute and take out enemies. When the first special prosecutor was going to complete and close the investigation into the Clintons after finding nothing, the Republican leadership removed him and installed one of their own type who'd use his authority to try to take down a president (Ken Starr). After years of phony investigation that uncovered no crimes, but did produce years of very useful allegation smoke, Whitewater did finally lead to impeachment after the president lied about a completely unrelated sexual affair.

and positions from the wrong side of the aisle. You weren’t far wrong. He’s just not quite as smart-ass snarky as Diane Dowd is.

... is out to get Trump. UNFAIR!

Far from it!
Mueller keeps digging because he’s hit the mother lode with Cohen.
And the RepubliCONs know this. They’re scrambling to save their own sorry asses. My view: they’re rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

As I stated when the orange menace became pResident: I'll say this for Trump, he'll be comedy gold. Pass the popcorn and watch even the most organized GOP'ers keep track of all the lies they're supposed to stick with.

This one is exposing the criminals

They still "demand" more investigations into the "real" Russian collaborators. As long as their base hates Hillary they'll keep going to that same well, time after time. For normal people that well would have dried up a long time ago, but there is no end to the GOP's hate for everything Clinton.

The treasonous scumbags are the only patriots.

the claims of wrongdoing have been debunked many times.

Neither Clinton was indicted on so much as a parking ticket. Those who were indicted were going to be anyway and received lesser charges for the promise of testimony that never amounted to anything.

other than ReTHUGs and their friends.

Meanwhile the really interesting part is when an obvious hack Republican is in charge of an investigation against a Democrat, there's no witch hunt. However, when multiple Republicans are heading up an investigation against a Republican, it MUST be a witch hunt. Funny how that works.

ALWAYS. There was never anything to pin on the Clintons because they never did anything wrong. At all. Period.

Some people, including people on DU, are impatient with the Mueller investigation because it's "taking so long." Look, I get it; we'd all like Trump out on his ass in disgrace TOMORROW. But Mueller and his team are being very methodical and thorough. When they move to indict, it'll stick. No one can say there was a rush to judgment. Well, they CAN, and some will, but legally it'll be bulletproof.

the better the chances for Success for our Democracy



Riff

...in the Trump camp, not one of them with the courage and fortitude of Ms. Clinton.

The F'n MORON is gonna blow and fire everyone. Bill Kristol thinks just before the Idiot leaves for NKorean summit. Hope Mueller and team get every indictment out and into state courts fast.

What's Plan B?

Republicans have melons for heads, mush for brains.

going on 24/7.

At this rate Mueller will roll up 79 people by election time 2020.

They worry about prison overcrowding.

Thanks for the thread, Arkansas Granny.

How do those fit your scheme mr. pp resident, sir?

I repost a DU gem like yours but yours I can even memorize for a while like I did for attacks and deaths of people there under Bush (forgotten now).