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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEmpathy has to flow both ways
You can't have empathy if you're not willing to give it back.
I think many of us at DU expect empathy but are wholly unable or unwilling to offer any in return.
I think maybe I have finally put my finger on the real issue that I have with this place, generally. At one time I did get empathy here and still find it in some. But then there are some hard liners who will go so far as to use my expectations against me.
That's a shame.
elleng
(130,824 posts)and too often doesn't do that here.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Smart people should be empathetic. We are in this together.
elleng
(130,824 posts)I and others may expect too much from 'smart' people; I'm often disappointed.
' the feeling that you understand and share another person's experiences and emotions : the ability to share someone else's feelings.'
Response to Cary (Original post)
elocs This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cary
(11,746 posts)We are about fairness and spreading power around. We are.about enlightened self interest, as opposed to Ayn Rand/"conservative" rational selfishness.
LakeArenal
(28,809 posts)A lot less real or faux outrage.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Right?
LakeArenal
(28,809 posts)Hope we fight this hard on Nov. 2018. Less than Six months away ?
Cary
(11,746 posts)Thanks for giving me this thought.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)Generally I think there's more empathy on du than other sites. Lately I'm sorting some questionable threads dealing with empathy and tolerance. It's for me to sort, I certainly don't need help.....Just in case anyone feels the need to question what I'm sorting through my head. Just don't go there......my head, my thoughts.
FWIW.....We need more empathy across the board.
Response to Cary (Original post)
elocs This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cary
(11,746 posts)But ok. I'll take it.
Response to Cary (Reply #11)
elocs This message was self-deleted by its author.
brer cat
(24,544 posts)I have great empathy with, for example, a poor single parent struggling to balance work and family obligations but not with Vanessa Trump. Does that mean I have to turn in my liberal card? Or does it make me a "bad" liberal? What if I have compassion but not empathy? I think in your example, I might find compassion for the young man as he faces certain death, but I sure don't think I would feel empathy.
Cary
(11,746 posts)We don't have to form a strong coalition to defeat the fascists. I don't think anyone is directing us to that end. Are they?
elocs
(22,562 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)I didn't intend to offend you and I'm sorry if I did.
My point was that we don't have to be smart or nice or anything efficacious or good. I was not suggesting that we should not be good. Quite the contrary.
brer cat
(24,544 posts)I was actually responding to "self-deleted" who seemed to be making the point that we must have empathy for all, including men who like to target shoot with live girls. I have an issue with that concept and was trying to clarify.
I know.
I'm having a tough time with some of the stuff going on here. Sorry.
Boomerproud
(7,949 posts)That is not just a problem on DU.
Response to Boomerproud (Reply #12)
elocs This message was self-deleted by its author.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have shown empathy to people I know would never return it. That is not a metric that is important to showing empathy. Showing empathy is personal, not collective.
I have seen and shown a lot of empathy around DU. It's not needed across the board.
Cary
(11,746 posts)If you have a better solution I defer to you, but this current thing that we do to each other here has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
I want to fight Reublicans, not people here.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Not always pretty how it happens. Doesn't always work, either.
I agree with you about the non-constructive conflict comment. It is completely different from the previous metric of empathy.
People here are going to fight. That is a fact. We have serious reasons to fight as well. I'm aware of a number of racists and blatant sexists who post here regularly. While some think this board is some kind of monolith, it is anything but.
"I want to fight Reublicans, not people here."
Some here are every bit as bad as Republicans. One current poster spent the who general election last time on another board promoting the Clinton email "scandal". Don't think that because they post here that they are your friends. Women and the LGBT community know that all too well around these parts.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)If empathy was some kind of deal to be struck, it wouldn't be empathy.
Empathy has no costs and no conditions to be met, only our ability to imagine oneself as another person in order to think and feel as he does. It certainly does not require agreement or approval, only the ability and willingness to acquire this depth of understanding of other people.
Most of the time we don't try, of course. Plus, understanding people we want to abuse has a way of taking the fun out of indulging our own faults. And some leaps are just too big, like into Trump's mind.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Not with racists. I prefer to be wedged from racists.
I am wedged from good friends. That's unacceptable.
Behind the Aegis
(53,934 posts)Like you, I see some people who are very open, accommodating, and willing to learn, then there are the rest.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Well it's no wonder that you get disappointed. Boddhicitta is loving kindness that is generated for the benefit of others without the expectation of getting anything in return. The expectation of getting something in return is a selfish aim, and contaminates the intention of doing a good deed for others.
Cary
(11,746 posts)vlyons
(10,252 posts)Generosity isn't just about giving alms to the poor. There are such ideals as a generosity of compassion, generosity of spirit, generosity of forgiveness, generosity of loving kindness. The point is that expecting to get something back for being a kind person defeats the altruistic aspiration.
Cary
(11,746 posts)That's not rational selfishness which is Ayn Rand's perversion of the ideology our nation was founded on. Our founders knew that the general welfare referred to in the Preamble of the Constitution was no zero sum game. Our function is to enable everyone to reach their own potential. That requires empathy, one of the most noble of human endeavors, scoffed at and eschewed by Rand.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)I'm a Buddhist. We value altruistic compassion far above selfishness.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I don't need to be here at all. My presence is optional and I discuss as I see fit within the rules. Need has nothing to do with it.
Buddhist or not if you can glean something from my words that's great. If you cannot then it's no skin off your nose.
I am more into Taoist philosophy, myself. Being an empathatic Buddhist perhaps you know what that means.
Maybe not.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)complain when they dont get it.
Thats the whole point ...
Cary
(11,746 posts)How can I empathize and help you if you're self destructive? Have you ever enabled an addict?
Cary
(11,746 posts)An addict lacks empathy. A really sick person will care only about their next fix and will unflinching I use your empathy to get it. It's not personal. That's part.of the disease and part of the horror.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)Clearly you don't understand my point of view. I am trying to relate something to you that I feel that you don't understand.
All I want here is to not be wedged. I have told you that, yet you tell me that I feel slighted.
I understand your perspective. I appreciate what you're saying. I am better off for it.
You don't need to agree with me but you do need to understand what I am trying to tell you.
We have a guy in the White House who feels there are some good Klansmen and Nazis. Do you really need to be bickering with me?
Cary
(11,746 posts)Sorry. I meant that as an example only.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)or one is not.
Here's a big hug. I don't know what's going on, but this is an online board with thousands of people and not every one is nice. You just have to be yourself in all situations.
Cary
(11,746 posts)And scoundrels and traitors running Congress, and we are being wedged over race when we really don't disagree.
JI7
(89,244 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)When people see some things as beautiful,
Other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
Other things become bad.
Tao te Ching
Cary
(11,746 posts)Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done. The world is sacred. It can't be improved. If you tamper with it, you'll ruin it. If you treat it like an object, you'll lose it. There is a time for being ahead, a time for being behind; a time for being in motion, a time for being at rest; a time for being vigorous, a time for being exhausted; a time for being safe, a time for being in danger. The Master sees things as they are, without trying to control them. She lets them go their own way, and resides at the center of the circle.
The center of the wheel is the most important part, like the center of a vessel. The center is empty.