Is it ok to call me a cracker? After all my skin

[wasupaloopa]

color is close to that of a soda cracker.

Are all white people crackers or are there some who are crackers and some who aren’t.

Are racist white people crackers?

Can only crackers with power be racists?

[bettyellen]

1. Keep punching down, DU.

[marble falls]

6. My thought, exactly. I just don't get it.

[wasupaloopa]

14. What does punching up or down mean?

This is all getting so complicated.

We need a page where we can get these meanings.

[bettyellen]

18. I'm not here to educate you abot commonly used terminology. BTW, you're on the net. No reason to

Come to this discussion with such an ignorance of the basic terminology. No reason at all.

[wasupaloopa]

25. Well thanks for putting me in my place

I think you don’t have a good answer

I asked what do you mean not what does the web say

[bettyellen]

39. I'm using the term correctly, so if you care to learn- go and learn! No one is stopping you

From being informed in this discussion except for you.
I don’t have time to do your research for you. If you’ve never heard the concept of punching down, there’s probably a whole lot more information you’ll need.

And I see from your responses here, you distrust others here when they try to clarify. My instinct to tell you to do your own research was correct!

[Bob Loblaw]

62. If I give the benefit of the doubt

I'd say someone is attempting to teach you an object lesson in being punched down. But I don't think there was a good reason to be so crappy to you, nor do I feel the benefit of the doubt has been earned here.

[bettyellen]

73. You're correct. Also I do not, as a habit, give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to JAQ

Aka - “just asking questions”. And I was right, as you can see below, they blow off any info given. I had a feeling they’d not trust others here, and only waste their time.
Not worth mine.


But yeah, I punched down a bit because I knew people would argue that such a thing.... isn’t possible! HA
Good catch.

[uppityperson]

27. I don't know what punching up or down means either. I find giving clarification when asked

to be a better strategy than insulting someone for not knowing what is meant, but hey. That's just me.

[bettyellen]

41. It's a fairly long answer, and more easily found and trusted ignorant a person does their own

research. I’m sorry if too many people don’t have any context (Twitter humour) or knowledge of basic concepts used in communication- more specifically, comedy. Suffice to say, punching down is being a bully, punching up is often speaking truth (sardonically) to power.

[uppityperson]

44. Thank you. That's along what I thought but didn't want to assume

[bettyellen]

46. Of course. I pretty much can tell when someone's genuinely wants to know something

And when they are just trying to waste your time. I could tell you genuinely wanted the info. But I know others wouldn’t trust anything said here. They can do their own search, but I doubt they will.

[Drahthaardogs]

48. I don't know how common it is, but outside of rising bread

Never heard the expression

[bettyellen]

52. Discussing satire it is super common- a basic concept about speaking truth to power VS

bullying. It’s pretty relevant these days, and why the media was full of shit about Michelle Wolf being mean to the WH. She was punching up. Trump has been punching down, to the nation’s disgust.

[Drahthaardogs]

57. Whatever...

I find silly little catch phrases banal to the point they diminish the argument.

There's no there, there

Punching Down

Just say opressing the opressed

[bettyellen]

74. Hmm, joking about isn't always oppression. Punching down is more specific and a better descriptive.

Why are you trying to take more accurate phrases out of our lexicon. Language always grows and mutates.
As we come to a better understanding of things, terminology evolves to describe it.

[Drahthaardogs]

75. Because it sounds stupid

That's why.

Like the skinny jeans of language

[bettyellen]

84. Because you didn't know about it, it's stupid. Even though it's much more accurate than your

suggestion? That makes no sense at all. It is fitting that you used the most banal and basic word to describe it. Stupid, yeah that’s.... an interesting choice. Let’s limit our vocabulary even further w descriptors like that!

[Drahthaardogs]

86. Nah, it just sounds stupid

And stupid is a good word. Just like hearing grown men and women describe food as yummy. It's infantile and stupid.

I hate cutesy trendy words. My opinion and I'm allowed to have it. I don't need a sociologist ( good Lord) telling us they use the word because they are so educated...

[bettyellen]

88. It's not because anyone is "so educated", LOL. They're just looking for the most accurate terms

available, for the sake of clarity. In this case it’s about why humour that “punches down” isn’t ever as funny, as it is basically a tool for bullies. Calling it oppression is what is actually stupid. Sorry, but it seems like you’ve got issues w comprehension, and dislike people w knowledge. No thanks!

[Drahthaardogs]

89. Oh yes, bullying isn't oppression

FFS...

[bettyellen]

90. You do understand that these terms are used to describe humour? I'm not even sure you do.

Just asking for a friend, LOL.

[Drahthaardogs]

92. It's " humor", you're on an American political board

I'm sure such an erudite person knew that already, but just a reminder

[bettyellen]

93. So sorry for using the anglicized spelling... glad you could work that out. But punching down

Is a common phrase in America, so there’s that! I just hate when people try to discuss things and they don’t express themselves except using the most basic of words. But, you do have your spelling thing, so... that’s nice!

[Beartracks]

53. You took time to say you're not here to answer the question? You know what's coming next...

Why didn't you just answer the question?



============

[bettyellen]

59. As the poster shows elsewhere in this thread, they don't want to take anyone's word for answers....

I’m familiar with this, they’re playing games and the only solution would be for them to go research themselves.

[Caliman73]

33. Punching down.

Punching down means that people who have more social/economic/institutional power attack those with less. When White people attack minorities, when men attack women, when the wealthy attack the poor as inferior for their state of being, that is punching down. Republicans do it all the time. People who are uncomfortable discussing their privilege also do it regularly.

Punching up is exactly the opposite. MLK, Malcolm X, Cesar Chavez, Betty Friedan, Angela Davis, and Bell Hooks punched up.

[MoonRiver]

66. Those terms mean shit. eom

[Loki Liesmith]

76. I only punch back

The angle of attack is less important to me.

[bettyellen]

85. * not your problem, so who cares, eh? *. Nice!

[WhiteTara]

2. I thought "cracker" was a term used

for slave drivers who cracked the whip--so racists with power would be crackers at least that's my take

[frogmarch]

5. My take too. I guess I was

still typing when your post went up.

[ProudLib72]

42. Yep, it has nothing to do with the things you eat

All about cracking a whip.

[Igel]

45. It dates from the 1780s or before.

Britain.

Refers, apparently, to convicts shipped to N. America and their offspring. The coinage seems to have little to do with cracking the whip, except in the realm of folk etymology. Sort of like the folk etymology that I used to hear ascribed to "picnic", which also has little bearing on the truth. Perhaps individuals' truths, whatever that means, but not to any historical accounting.

"Cracker" in N. Florida apparently has a different etymology.

[trof]

55. Florida cracker

Cracker cowmen

In Florida, those who own or work cattle traditionally have been called cowmen. In the late 1800s, they were often called cow hunters, a reference to hunting for cattle scattered over the wooded rangelands during roundups. At times the terms cowman and Cracker have been used interchangeably because of similarities in their folk culture. Today the western term "cowboy" is often used for those who work cattle.[3]

The Florida "cowhunter" or "cracker cowboy" of the 19th and early 20th centuries was distinct from the Spanish vaquero and the Western cowboy. Florida cowboys did not use lassos to herd or capture cattle. Their primary tools were cow whips and dogs. Florida cattle and horses were smaller than the western breeds. The "cracker cow", also known as the "native" or "scrub" cow, averaged about 600 pounds (270 kg) and had large horns and large feet.[4]

[WhiteTara]

72. Very interesting.

Thanks

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

81. It is.

[frogmarch]

3. I was always told that

the name "cracker" refers to the white slave owners who cracked their whips at slaves.

[Loki Liesmith]

77. Yeah that's a just-so story

[fleabiscuit]

4. Sigh...

[HopeAgain]

7. Don't ask this cracker wypipo

Who doesn't care what people choose to call him. When those names mean I will get arrested at Starbucks for standing around, or made to pay for my dinner when I order at Denny's, or considered suspicious just because I exist, then I might care. But for now, I don't give a damn about just names.

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. God damn if you didnt take the words straight outta my MOUTH

Yikes, someone is taking a BEATING here


Now I wonder if anyone will LEARN from this thread?

[Igel]

47. Mostly a question of what they'd learn.

I had kids recently learn that positive and negative charges repel each other, and if you put a proton and an electron together you get nuclear fusion.

It was like hitting the side of a horse with a bundle of hay and calling it fed.

[ismnotwasm]

8. .

[Caliman73]

9. Cracker is a derisive term created for poor White people by rich White people

It is not a term created by Black people to oppress and dehumanize all white people the way that terms have been used against people of color.

Certain Black people have used that term as an act of defiance in the face of their powerlessness.

Anyone can be racist, but only the group in power (WHITE people) have the ability to use racism to oppress entire groups of their peers.

[wasupaloopa]

12. Where did all that come from?

Is it taught in college or something?

[bettyellen]

16. Sociology 101, so we have punching down and denigrating the educated...

Gosh, will we get a trifecta now?

[wasupaloopa]

20. What the hell are you saying?

English please. Are you saying something about me? If so what?

[Drahthaardogs]

50. Sociology? That's like psychology only p- values are even

Harder to find. Right????

[bettyellen]

54. This thread has become an ignorance is bliss playpen. Have a blankie, take a nap....

Whatever it takes.

[Drahthaardogs]

58. I once had a psychologist say "See we are both scientists"

Uhhhhhh, No.

[bettyellen]

60. And non sequitors about psychologists are germane because... oh, they are not! LOL

Let’s not waste each other’s time anymore, okay?

[Drahthaardogs]

63. It was like a chiropractor telling a neurosurgeon

They were equals.

So tell me, why are p-values so hard to find in psychology studies?

[bettyellen]

65. I don't go for being derailed. Start a thread about it if it matters to you.

[Drahthaardogs]

67. Well, you were the one who was rather condescending

To those of us who have never heard the term.

I guess you don't like "Turnaround is Fair Play Day" huh?

[bettyellen]

69. So you're seriously denigrating sociology as a field of study - or just lashing out because of

hurt feelings?






Oh wait, I don’t really care!
Also, don’t care what you know or dislike about psychology, not sure why you thought it was at all relevant. Like I said, start a thread- to might find someone who DOES care.

[Drahthaardogs]

71. It's not exactly the Bastion of Science

You are not splitting atoms or splicing DNA. I guess I take umbrage to the "denigrating the educated" line. BLUF Sociologists are not THAT educated compared to other disciplines.

[Caliman73]

17. Perhaps it is. Is there a problem with that?

The power of language is created by those with the most social power. Please tell me a term used to describe White people that has lead to their oppression by people of color.

[wasupaloopa]

21. Why does anyone have to accept your view

of anything?

[shenmue]

22. It's a fancy new sociology term.

[Caliman73]

23. Who says they do?

You seem to be awfully preoccupied with it. If you don't like it, move along. OR perhaps you can do an honest search and learn for yourself.

[wasupaloopa]

24. I have as much right be preoccupied as anyone.

The thing on my mind is how had some folks here are trying to establish their “truths” or definitions on the rest of us. Even to the point of telling me to go away.

Well some of us will push back so maybe you should go away.

[Caliman73]

26. Not planning on going away.

I know that it is difficult to accept that there are different point of views other than the dominant discourse, but that is reality. It can be scary when things have been taught and run a certain way without many questions for a long time then some uppity people come around and try to educate you that there are ALOT of people who have different experiences. It is easier to believe that your way is the correct way and any attempt to enlighten you is an attack and imposition of "truths" against your poor oppressed soul.

Finally, I never told you to go away. I told you to move along, as in, you do not have to respond to my posts. You can put me on Ignore, or simply move on. This is an internet forum. We all have our opinions and we can choose to accept those of other people or just continue to hold our own. Whatever you choose to do is up to you. Good luck.

[wasupaloopa]

30. Answer this without the wise cracks

Where did the idea that being a racist means that you are coming from a position of power

[EX500rider]

36. It's a new fangled theory being pushed..

....which ignores the actual definition of the word. I think it makes some people happy to believe only white people can be racist.

Definition of racism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

[bettyellen]

49. Systemic racism is a theory now, is it? I can't even.

Willful ignorance is the worst.

[EX500rider]

56. Institutional racism is not the same as plain racism which can be practiced by anybody..

...of any color.
The word does have a definition.

[Caliman73]

37. Racism is the belief that your own race is superior to others.

Without power, a racist is just an ignorant fool. You can only advance racist ideas with social power. There are Black people and Brown people who are racist. In this country however, where all the power is held by White people, those racist people of color amount to nothing.

People are going crazy on this forum because ONE Black author has created a term to describe one tiny subset of people. Absolutely going crazy. That Black author has ZERO power to make any change in this country and yet people are treating it as if it were the worst thing to happen. People of Color have been enduring this for centuries by structures with REAL power to make our lives more difficult, so I hope you can understand why some people of color on this forum are not as sympathetic to the issue.

[treestar]

35. There is that study or poll where a number of white people think

they are the victims of discrimination now. They are probably Deplorables. But do they really believe it? Or are they playing to try to pretend they don't have this oppressive power in order to try to keep it?

By coming up with derogatory terms for them, do we give them a weapon to support their position? When they go low, we go high, and we are better than them, etc., anyway. But you can be sure the media and Fox will let them use the derogatory term to buttress their victim claims.

[Caliman73]

43. I've seen the poll.

Same mindset as Christians in the US who believe that their rights are being taken away. Unfortunately, I don't think that it is only Deplorables who believe this. When your way of thinking, your experience and all of the social norms have been created about you and for you for centuries, then suddenly (and I don't mean as in just in the last couple of years) you are being asked to consider the experience of almost half of the population of your country which are different than your own; it can feel like discrimination.

The reality is that while White people tend to have privilege, most do not have the power that wealthier White people have, so they do not feel all of the benefits of the privilege. When they see programs that help people of color and women to just come up to a basic level, they tend to see themselves as victims of discrimination.

Finally, it matters not whether people use terms of derision or if they are perfectly obedient and silent, the White power structure will use whatever they can to maintain their dominance. If President Obama said or did anything, he was evil; If he did or said nothing, he was evil. It is our being that is evil to the racists in power and we can choose to say nothing or choose to be aggressive.

I don't particularly agree with the term Wypipo. I would never use it myself. The difference is that I understand the place where it comes from so I am not going to jump on the bandwagon of those deriding it.

[Loki Liesmith]

78. Power doesn't work that way.

It is situational and contextual.

[marble falls]

11. ... but you don't have to call me Johnson.....

[left-of-center2012]

13. Sad to see this on DU

I thought we were better.

[NCTraveler]

15. Crackers.

Another subset of whites I will be sending thoughts and prayers to.

[SaintLouisBlues]

19. Saltine Americans

Please

[John Fante]

28. LMAO

[Sugar Smack]

31. There it is--levity!!!

[EffieBlack]

29. I'm not sure, but I think you're being divisive

I could be wrong since no one around here seems to know what that really means - but it doesn't stop them from throwing it around whenever they see a post they don't agree with, so I figured I'd try it.

[sheshe2]

61. ;)

[betsuni]

70. Heh.

[treestar]

32. I thought that was only a segment of white people lol

Which might be considered a stereotype I.E., uneducated white mountain people, from West Va. or Arkansas.

[Glorfindel]

34. Here's an interesting article from Wikipedia concerning the term "cracker."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_cracker

I think its origin and use are a bit different from what most people believe it to be. Here in the southern Appalachians, the term is almost never used. "Hillbilly" is common, and "hoodger" (a variant of "hoosier" ) used to be. Hillfolk are seldom called "redneck," but "poor white trash" is not uncommon.

[EX500rider]

38. Yes, that is what I heard the definition came from here in Florida.

In the late 19th century and the early part of the 20th century, Georgia ranchers came to be known as "Georgia Crackers" by Floridians when they drove their cattle down into the grassy flatlands of Central Florida to graze in the winter, stopping where the citrus groves began. In order to get the cattle's attention they became very adept at cracking a bullwhip.

[Kirk Lover]

40. We are all crackers with the lights out. nt

[vercetti2021]

51. I'm a vanilla oreo

But I'm creamy goodness

All and all, I'm not sure why so many threads are popping up about racial slang. Still human after all

[wellst0nev0ter]

64. Your fake dead girlfriend says "hi"

n/t

[Buzz cook]

68. We should address people as they wish to be addressed.

This took less than a second to find.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/07/01/197644761/word-watch-on-crackers

So "Cracker" goes bak to Shakespearean times yada yada. Its modern use tends to refer to a bigoted white person.

So there ya go.

[sandensea]

82. +1

Respect is a two-way street.

A lot of it has to do with tone and intent. If I jokingly refer to myself as a cracker, and someone follows up good-naturedly with the same term, I'd wouldn't have a problem with that.

But if someone calls me a cracker out of the blue, and with hostility, that person doesn't deserve to be part of the conversation.

One, of course, is free to call oneself that, just as African-Americans often use the N word as a term of endearment. As Democrats though - and just plain Americans - we shouldn't encourage racial epithets.

[Exotica]

79. anyone who calls you a cracker simply for being white, and not knowing your philosophy is a

fucking jackass

spoken as a hardcore LGBTQ PoC

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

80. The phrase is short for whip cracker

It has nothing to do with the color of a cracker. Has anyone called you that or is this a hypothetical?

[LexVegas]

83. Like I said...

[Oneironaut]

87. I'm a nilla wafer.

No seriously, my skin is the shade, “white walker.” Every morning, I open up my gothic-style coffin to go to sleep so that the sun doesn’t melt my skin.

[sarah FAILIN]

91. Any slang name besides what you are is wrong

But people here think it's ok to call white people names so whatever. Drag everyone here down if you want.