Dear Mr. Cathey: here is every single thing Jesus said about gay people and homosexuality

[arely staircase]

Last edited Thu Aug 2, 2012, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

[npk]

1. Wasn't Jesus a life long bachelor who seemed to spend most of his time with men who adorned...

him with gifts.



Uh oh...you know what that means!

[demwing]

24. I hear he was also a big Streisand fan

and knows all the lyrics to Yentl by (sacred) heart...

[Kurovski]

66. As a caterer, he was fabulously ingenious

What with all the water into wine and multiplying salmon dip, and all the rest. heavens, what a wonder!

[dballance]

28. Actually, there seems to be some evidence that Mary was a disciple and close confidant of Jesus

Unfortunately misogynists like Paul wrote her out of history and later all-male groups of church hierarchy did their best to subordinate women with the results we still see today in how we still discriminate against women.

[Fawke Em]

32. To be clear: You're talking about Mary Magdalene, not Mary.

Mary, his mother, was also a disciple and close to Jesus, for obvious reasons. But the true nature of Jesus' relationship, if any, with Mary Magdalene has been shelved for centuries by the Vatican.

[ananda]

33. In the Gnostic gospels...

Jesus and Mary Mags kiss on the lips!

Oick.

[Johonny]

42. there isn't very much evidence of this

There is evidence that women had high position in the early churches during the first era of the spread of the religion. And there is clear evidence later writers (not Paul) using Paul's name reoriented the church to fit in more with the male oriented society of the time. Once again it isn't even clear who all the 12 disciples were, but Gnostic text written 100 years after the founding of the religion aren't generally thought to be great of sources for knowing it. Although they are interesting sources for understanding religious thought diversity in the time frame 100-200 years after the church started.

[Motown_Johnny]

47. They were "Fishers of Men"

[Cleita]

49. And there are references to his beloved John?

Just sayin'. Of course homosexuality wasn't a big deal in the Greco Roman world Jesus was part of.

[NYC_SKP]

2. I don't know... There was this here stuff that he said:

[Summer Hathaway]

3. Yeah, but ...

He said it in ALL CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. Are you serious? Nothing. I am ignorant, Catholic...and we never

had to read the bible.

[Angry Dragon]

8. Why would you allow someone to tell you what

something means without ever reading it??

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. Why would you feel the need to post something so hateful? You are telling

me to read the whole book to agree or disagree that the OP is telling the truth?

[pnwmom]

19. She read it in Church. She's just not counting that. She probably

didn't realize that the Four Gospels got proclaimed, over and over, in the weekly Mass readings.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. If you are interested, you can run a Google search.

You will find most of the ultra-religious sites engage in red herring ("quick! look over there!) types of arguments. They will say things like, "well, he never said anything against child molestation..." and similar things. I have also found a few sites (Google: "Jesus quotes in the Bible&quot , where you can actually see the wording from various Bibles. If you do type in "Jesus" you will get anything that mentions Him by name. This may help you out. This is a very good (SHORT) book, called: What the Bible REALLY Says about Homosexuality. Hope this is helpful.

[pnwmom]

15. Every week at Church there were Bible readings, and they covered

all Four Gospels in rotation. So you listened to them, even if you didn't sit down and read them.

And, the OP is correct. Jesus himself never said anything about gay people or homosexuals. Paul did have something to say, but he was a misogynist as well -- or, at least, his translators were.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

27. Sergius and Bacchus: the Gay Married Catholic Saints -

www.livius.org/cn-cs/constantinople/constantinople_ss_sergius_bacchus.html

[FedUpWithIt All]

44. The Bible references to homosexuality are bad translations of a couple of fronts.

Dealing with Leviticus 18-20 (also as quoted by Paul)

The word "toevah" was mis-translated as "abomination" in the Bible. The true meaning of "toevah" is "ritually unclean". Ritual "cleanliness" were cultural laws that separated the Jewish people from the pagans. Other "ritually unclean" behavior was doing work on the Shabbat, sex during menstruation and eating shellfish or pork. "Ritually unclean" meant a jewish person who broke the cultural laws was unable to participate in worship until the were "purified" Death is recommended for all Hebrews who defied the cultural laws above.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2008/06/have_you_committed_an_abominat.html
http://www.atlantajewishnews.com/newsarticles/rabbi-delivers-kol-nidre-sermon-same-sex-marriage

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah Genesis 19:1-25

According to the later Ezekiel 16:48-50: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me.[8] Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

(sound familiar?)

Jesus also mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah as committing a crime of inhospitality and therefore breaking Jewish cultural traditions. “Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.” -Exodus 22:21

The Bible says that Jesus said, “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement, than for that city.” Mark 6:11.


In the Bible he also said, "11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town." Matthew 10:11-15


In Timothy and 1Corinthians the words Arsenokeeteh and Malakee are troublesome.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (original word Malakee), nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."1Corinthians 6 -10

"for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality (poorly translated from the word Arsenokeeteh), for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine."1 Timothy 1:10


Arsenokeeteh literally translates to "male-active-bed". Paul did not use known Greek words for homosexual behavior such as "paiderasste." Religious tolerance broke down the translation issues with this word.

Many sources have speculated about the meaning of "arsenokoitai:"

"Homosexual offenders:" The NIV contains this phrase. Suppose for the moment that Paul had attacked "heterosexual offenders" or "heterosexual sexual offenders." We would not interpret this today as a general condemnation of heterosexuality. It would be seen as an attack only on those heterosexuals who commit sexual offences. Perhaps the appropriate interpretation of this verse is that it does not condemn all homosexuals. Rather it condemns only those homosexuals who engage in sexual offences (e.g. child sexual abuse, rape, unsafe sex, manipulative sex, coercive sex, etc).

Male prostitutes in Pagan temples: One source states that the Septuagint (an ancient, pre-Christian translation of the Old Testament into Greek made between the 3rd and 1st century BCE) translated the Hebrew "quadesh" in I Kings 14:24, 15:12 and 22:46 into a Greek word somewhat similar to "arsenokoitai." This passage referred to "male temple prostitutes" -- people who engaged in ritual sex in Pagan temples. 1 Some leaders in the early Christian church also thought 1 Corinthians was referring to temple prostitutes. Some authorities believe that it simply means male prostitutes with female customers - a practice which appears to have been a common practice in the Roman empire.

Pimp: Another source refers to other writings, written later than 1 Corinthians, which contains the word "arsenokoitai:" This includes the Sibylline Oracles 2.70-77, Acts of John, and Theophilus of Antioch's Ad Autolycum. The source suggests that the term refers "to some kind of economic exploitation by means of sex (but not necessarily homosexual sex)." 2 Probably "pimp" or "man living off of the avails of prostitution" would be the closest English translations. It is worth noting that "Much Greek homosexual erotic literature has survived, none of it contains the word arsenokoitai." 3

Masturbators. At the time of Martin Luther, "arsenokoitai" was universally interpreted as masturbator. But by the 20th century, masturbation had become a more generally accepted behavior. So, new translations abandoned references to masturbators and switched the attack to homosexuals. The last religious writing in English that interpreted 1 Corinthians 6 as referring to masturbation is believed to be the [Roman] Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967.

The Greek term malakee is actually used in other verses of the Bible to mean someone who "lacks discipline" or one who is "morally weak" and never used elsewhere to describe sexual behavior.

Abusive pedophiles: Many would consider "malakoi" -- the word preceding "arsenokoitai," in 1 Corinthians -- to refer to a catamite: a boy or young male who engaged in sexual activities with men. Such boys were often slaves, owned by rich men as sex partners. The second term might then refer to the men who engaged in sex with the catamites. That is, they were abusive pedophiles or hebephiles. The New American Bible contains a footnote which reads:

"The Greek word translated as 'boy prostitutes' [in 1 Cor. 6 ] designated catamites, i.e. boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world....The term translated 'practicing homosexuals' refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/homarsen.htm

[Cleita]

52. Really? I was raised a Catholic and went to Catholic school and I

had to read all of it both New and Old Testament of the Douay Rheims version. I still have my copy. Too bad. Pick up a copy and read the gospels. What you read is different than what you hear.

[Brigid]

62. There are several excellent Catholic editions of the Bible around these days.

If you're interested, try this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Bible-Personal-Study-Hiesberger/dp/0195297911/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343948567&sr=1-1&keywords=the+catholic+bible+personal+study+edition

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Yes, serious, the lines come from Leviticus

and the best part, is according to BIBLE scholars, who actually try to Unterstand this in context, the three lines pertain to the abuse of masters over slaves, since the practice of sex between males WAS common in the ancient world.

Leviticus is from the OLD testament and are thought to have been written on or around the seventh century before the common era.

[nanabugg]

5. Apostle Paul said a lot about it, but Jesus said nothing about it. He said more about adultery.nt

[Angry Dragon]

10. He said the most about helping the poor

[pnwmom]

20. That's the part that stuck with me, too. n/t

[Brigid]

63. That's because he considered that the most important thing.

What is the greatest commandment? Love the lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. On these two hang all the Law and the Prophets. Check out Matthew 22:34-40 for further details.

[Zalatix]

17. The Apostle Paul said NOT TO JUDGE gay people because none of us are righteous.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Yup and to help those compiling more quotes by Jesus on homosexuality, in 1 Corinthians he said:

[Angry Dragon]

7. It will take too long to read all of that

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. what? you are saying it would take too long to read...yet telling me not

to trust and read myself?

[pnwmom]

16. Angry Dragon's joking. n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. that's cool

[npk]

9. Could you repeat that please

I was trying to write everything down and may have missed something.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

34. The OP forgot the Sermon on the Mount...

Blessed are the FABULOUS!

But that's from a more modern translation...

[HuckleB]

14. Why would it matter if he had said anything?

[greyl]

21. Right on. nt

[DURHAM D]

39. Amen.

[DeSwiss]

22. Here's a nice balloon with ''quotes'' with his thoughts on the matter.....

[center]

[/center]

- Feel free to just copy and paste it for any future uses you may have.

K&R

[demwing]

25. Balloon Face is not amused

Reminds me of my ex

[blkmusclmachine]

23. Some of the most ignorant, hateful ppl I've ever met are born-again

Leads me to believe it's a racket. Or a Cult. Probably both.


Do you know about Operation Northwoods? You should.

[Kurovski]

67. Some believe the term " born again" is a self- indulgent insult to Christ

Who already died for their sins and then rode that holy pony back to heaven. No need to make a spectacle of ones self.

[pitohui]

26. he was kind to them and accepted them as people

maybe some of his followers should catch the clue train!

[REP]

29. Unlocked

Last edited Thu Aug 2, 2012, 12:55 PM - Edit history (1)

[Zorra]

43. Thanks, REP. nt

[DURHAM D]

30. Bumping for further discussion after thread was un-locked. nt

[arely staircase]

31. i would like to give thanks to the higher power that unlocked this thread nt

[DURHAM D]

36. LOL

You can thank yardwork.

[SunsetDreams]

37. Hi there

It wasn't a higher power that unlocked the thread. It was another discussion between hosts. When this was first locked there was not that many hosts to give input on the thread. When there is no context, ie explicitly saying Chick fil a, it can be subject to interpretation. That's what happened here. Maybe next time put that in your OP?

[Initech]

35. Stephen Colbert said something similar a couple weeks ago:

"Let me tell what Jesus said in the Bible about homosexuality: Oh wait - he didn't say anything."

[sarisataka]

38. Actually he did say some things

Here are two

'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "And a second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." ( Matthew 22:37-40)

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." ( John 13:34-35)

I fail to see any qualifiers in these statements so I believe they do apply to gay people as well.

[TrogL]

40. Here's an interesting verse

“For there are eunuchs who are born thus from their mothers womb, and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who are eunuchs for the kingdom of heavens sake. Let those who can accept it, accept it.”
Matthew 19:12.

[Solomon]

56. I was waiting for some one to quote this. i didnt have

the nerve to do it myself. I don't know why people won't acknowledge that he DID say something about it.

Both sides seem to skip over this one. I fully understand why the right does so. Because it seems to settle the issue straight from the mouth of their god: "accept them."

Why the left overlooks it, I have no clue. The statement is clearly positive on the issue.

[snooper2]

41. The Flying Spaghetti Monster says you are only to fuck doggy style

On Fridays, Saturdays and every other Thursday-

Missionary is required on Spaghetti Meatball Day which is the first Monday of every month---

Fellatio is only to be performed between the hours of 5:00 AM and 7:23 AM And you must perform fellatio at least once(till orgasm) on a man and a women to get into the magic strainer in the sky.




Furry's are automatically banned from the magic strainer for some reason...

[cbdo2007]

45. Yet he clearly says Divorce is a sin.....imagine all the divorced people at chick-fil-a yesterday

protesting for the sanctity of marriage. hahahahaha

[UnrepentantLiberal]

46. Doesn't matter what it says in the version of the Bible you have.

The Book of Bart

By Neely Tucker
The Washington Post
March 5, 2006

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. Where does faith reside? In the soul? The mind, the marrow of the bones?

In the long hours of the night, the voices of the evangelical preachers on the AM dial seem to know. Believe, they say. Then daylight comes and the listeners' questions fade.

Bart Ehrman is a sermon, a parable, but of what? He's a best-selling author, a New Testament expert and perhaps a cautionary tale: the fundamentalist scholar who peered so hard into the origins of Christianity that he lost his faith altogether.

Once he was a seminarian and graduate of the Moody Bible Institute, a pillar of conservative Christianity. Its doctrine states that the Bible "is a divine revelation, the original autographs of which were verbally inspired by the Holy Spirit."

More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/04/AR2006030401369.html

[mmonk]

50. I'm familiar with him and his work.

I think anyone who pours over scholarly work on the historical aspects runs into those contradictions and unsettled conclusions. I took the journey years ago and then threw all the books away and quit thinking about it.

[HarveyDarkey]

57. Excellent book

as is anything by him. A recommended read.

[Major Nikon]

48. I don't believe in Jesus, but if I did I think this is what he'd have to say to Cathy

[Rex]

51. I find it interesting that nobody wrote about Jesus

during his time on Earth...it was a 100 years later when someone first started writing about him. 100 years.

[VOX]

53. I think they had dial-up problems back then...

Took a bit longer to do the research.

[Rex]

54. LOL! Yes I believe Google was still on stone tablets back then.

Can I ask you something? What does VOX stand for? I am curious if I am correct.

[mmonk]

55. Lots of things were declared of him 300 years beyond that.

[Rex]

59. It, to me, just seems strange to base so much around this one person

that there is no direct source information on. Just speculation by people centuries later. Kinda like picking and choosing which 'books' made it into the Bible and which ones do not. Curious stuff.

[DURHAM D]

61. And apparently no one thought to save the letters

he wrote home to his mother while he was traveling.

[madinmaryland]

58. Wasn't Jesus' middle name Hussein?

[Rex]

60. Yeshua Ben Yoseph

nt.

[madinmaryland]

65. Sorry. I was talking about Jesus H. Christ!!

[On the Road]

64. Forgetting About How a Person Identifies Themselves,

are you inferring that Jesus accepted gay sexual relationships?

[catrose]

70. Well, there's this story about this centurion

Roman Army officer, you know? The guy has a dearly beloved..."slave" is how it's usually translated. Well, the officer really loved this slave, who was very sick, and he asked Jesus to heal his beloved...slave. Jesus said he'd come right over. But the officer said Jesus didn't have to do that, because Jesus was so powerful that he could just "speak the word" where he was. Jesus was impressed, saying he'd never seen such faith before. And he didn't remark anything about these two guys living together and one who declares how much he loves the other one. Oh, and the word "slave" can also be translated as "young lover."
Matthew 8:5-13.

[fascisthunter]

69. This ORTHODOX Christian...

...says, you are right. Oh and I no longer practice so I guess I was just using that label so people would look.