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Attention: FUCK RALPH NADER (Original Post) Adrahil May 2018 OP
+1. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt SidDithers May 2018 #1
+1000 stonecutter357 May 2018 #31
Scott Walker says TheRealNorth May 2018 #57
Welcome to DU... SidDithers May 2018 #58
I CALL HIM WANKER...... a kennedy May 2018 #68
Yes, Ralph did aid and abet Republicans in their efforts to divide. lapucelle May 2018 #73
I assume you're speaking about Nader Adrahil May 2018 #101
Nader is an asshole who gave us Bush and the Iraq War Gothmog May 2018 #137
Excellent! thank you tiredtoo May 2018 #134
Ditto. skylucy May 2018 #2
Amen!! manor321 May 2018 #3
You make many interesting points. This among them. OnDoutside May 2018 #4
I'm going to ralph, Nader. nt Xipe Totec May 2018 #5
Nader was Rove's puppet Gothmog May 2018 #6
Russians learned a lot from Ralph and helped Jill wasupaloopa May 2018 #8
Yep Gothmog May 2018 #9
And Nader cant and wont admit he was wrong. Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #29
No Nader and his followers repeated this stunt in 2016 Gothmog May 2018 #138
Maybe you should hate the Supremes rather then Nadar lovemydogs May 2018 #7
Thank you. MythosMaster May 2018 #11
Add mcar May 2018 #43
no... MythosMaster May 2018 #48
Yes mcar May 2018 #53
ummm MythosMaster May 2018 #55
Gee, thanks mcar May 2018 #56
Yeah, I think we all did live through it. MythosMaster May 2018 #97
Well bless your heart! mcar May 2018 #102
Nader was a hero of mine until he helped Bush win and we ended up invading Iraq. Nitram May 2018 #128
How many Democrats have carried Tennessee sense then standingtall May 2018 #75
I believe trump was the first to "win" MythosMaster May 2018 #94
No democrat was going to carry deep red Tennessee in 2000 standingtall May 2018 #98
Amen.. disillusioned73 May 2018 #109
They are the same people MythosMaster May 2018 #148
Borrowing a term from below Duppers May 2018 #46
Let's not forget butterfly ballots. progressoid May 2018 #61
I added the butterfly also to another post. MythosMaster May 2018 #96
Karl Rove agrees since he helped Nader's campaign in 2000 and 2004. n/t cynatnite May 2018 #13
I can hate both. Downtown Hound May 2018 #14
Just because one HAS a right.... Adrahil May 2018 #17
Due to Nader's being an asshole we have the iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting VRA Gothmog May 2018 #18
Nader could have run without pushing that BS that there's no difference between Gore and Bush. Gidney N Cloyd May 2018 #21
Same shit Jill pulled. sheshe2 May 2018 #47
Link please... MythosMaster May 2018 #49
Sure. Gidney N Cloyd May 2018 #77
So you are going with the excuse MythosMaster May 2018 #93
I linked you to politiFACT.com Gidney N Cloyd May 2018 #115
Such a small factor at that. MythosMaster May 2018 #147
I blame Nader. cab67 May 2018 #28
How about fucking both? they both had a big hand Cha May 2018 #81
I have no problem blaming both BannonsLiver May 2018 #88
lovemydogs.. disillusioned73 May 2018 #107
Nader gave bush several states just by himself Gothmog May 2018 #140
The SCOTUS would not have a chance to rule if Nader had not taken so many votes away Gothmog May 2018 #141
What did he do now? MariaCSR May 2018 #10
Was on Ari's show.... Adrahil May 2018 #12
Thanks for the details for those who don't have tv.. Cha May 2018 #82
He is such a creep, Green is good, Dems bad, need to look in a mirror. So sick of this monmouth4 May 2018 #15
I saw the interview. Why would Ari...give the loser any time at all. Demsrule86 May 2018 #16
I have the beat on DVR but may skip it tonight Gothmog May 2018 #22
It was sickening. Demsrule86 May 2018 #25
Then I can erase it without watching Gothmog May 2018 #32
You could fast forward it ...there may have been other good parts...I turned it off after Nader. Demsrule86 May 2018 #42
Amen. NT Bleacher Creature May 2018 #19
Yep! MyOwnPeace May 2018 #20
And Jill ShitStain. Le Gaucher May 2018 #23
and so timely and so valuable. Thank you for your depth and reason that makes us all better people. JCanete May 2018 #24
Not a dime's worth of difference (between him and Jill stein) redstateblues May 2018 #26
Because jill steins advocacy created modern consumer protections, transportation safety Tiggeroshii May 2018 #39
Greatly Overstated ProfessorGAC May 2018 #100
Not true. In fact GM had teams most active in discrediting nader and his advocacy groups Tiggeroshii May 2018 #117
That Doesn't Contradict A Thing I Said ProfessorGAC May 2018 #120
Nader founded the legal organizations and grasssroots that sparked the consumer Tiggeroshii May 2018 #121
He gives new meaning to the definition of unctuous. madaboutharry May 2018 #27
I said FU to him while hitting the off button on the remote. n/t rzemanfl May 2018 #30
And Jill Stein. Both of them gave us republicans. applegrove May 2018 #33
Scott Walker says TheRealNorth May 2018 #34
To hell with that old Green Party crank BannonsLiver May 2018 #35
Yeah fuck seatbelts! And food regulations! And consumer protections!! Tiggeroshii May 2018 #36
Yes, he has done good things, but Susan Calvin May 2018 #44
Nothing is simple or black and white. But on balance . . . . FUCK RALPH NADER Stinky The Clown May 2018 #45
So that gets him a lifetime pass? BannonsLiver May 2018 #89
Cerainly not a blanket "FU," Tiggeroshii May 2018 #90
Just another tool in the fascist toolbox... paleotn May 2018 #37
Well said! mcar May 2018 #38
Why is Nader even on television? Lonestarblue May 2018 #40
He knows how to win. He helped his candidate Bush win in 2000 JI7 May 2018 #41
Was it SNL where Ralph played with the sex doll? keithbvadu2 May 2018 #50
But the sex doll was wearing a seat belt. BTW, FUCK NADER. nt madinmaryland May 2018 #54
I will second that emotion nt doc03 May 2018 #51
Agreed! Rebl2 May 2018 #52
That's spelled Nadir WhiteTara May 2018 #59
I say it is a mixed bag... Stuart G May 2018 #60
As much as I love Obama.... Adrahil May 2018 #62
YAY! Another DU righteous indignation thread. progressoid May 2018 #63
He was on TV saying Adrahil May 2018 #64
Wow, that is very revealing. Bush was almost 20 years ago, and R B Garr May 2018 #65
Golly, it's almost as if he ran as a third party candidate or something. progressoid May 2018 #66
"indignation".. Asshole Liar fucking ralph fucking nader. Cha May 2018 #83
Don't you just love it? Everything is always black and white. alarimer May 2018 #105
People, please get over yourselves. chwaliszewski May 2018 #67
Srsly? shanny May 2018 #69
Yes. "Srsly." Adrahil May 2018 #72
Party loyalty over public safety Tiggeroshii May 2018 #92
Party loyalty and public safety go hand in hand in this case standingtall May 2018 #99
Did you perhaps see him ranting on Ari Melber's show today? radical noodle May 2018 #70
Yes. Pissed me off. What a narcissistic ass. NT Adrahil May 2018 #71
What he was really saying is Democrats and Rethugs are the same thing. F you Ralph njhoneybadger May 2018 #74
And Stephen A. Douglas HopeAgain May 2018 #76
The idiot was on tv. pretty freaking current. Cha May 2018 #80
Nader is like that friend your parents had The_Casual_Observer May 2018 #78
lol@Attention: Cha May 2018 #79
I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER Upthevibe May 2018 #84
i #ate him trueblue2007 May 2018 #85
Funny......... the first time I heard it was when raven mad May 2018 #86
For sure. mountain grammy May 2018 #106
No Nader... Then no Bush Presidency, no 9/11, no Patriot Act, no Iraq War. nt oasis May 2018 #87
+100! workinclasszero May 2018 #91
He crawls out of his crypt before a key midterm to start bashing democrats 24/7. Blue_true May 2018 #95
How much does the RNC pay Nader workinclasszero May 2018 #133
300,000 Democrats voted for Bush in Florida. alarimer May 2018 #103
Ok.. disillusioned73 May 2018 #104
Oh not this bullshit again mikeysnot May 2018 #108
Yep.. the asshole was on tv pushing 3rd parties.. so people on a Cha May 2018 #110
sad. isn't it... mikeysnot May 2018 #113
nader is a pitiful pos Cha May 2018 #114
No. he is not, nice try in smearing him. mikeysnot May 2018 #123
Oh fuck yeah 3rd party nader, LYING asshole is a pos. Cha May 2018 #143
Boss Nader... SidDithers May 2018 #111
How did the editor miss this glaring typo? The Polack MSgt May 2018 #135
I lulz'd KG May 2018 #112
Ever since 2004. Fuck Nader. marble falls May 2018 #116
I couldn't agree more louis c May 2018 #118
I totally agree world wide wally May 2018 #119
Amen wryter2000 May 2018 #122
Nader has done much good Kurt V. May 2018 #124
I once admired Nader and had great hopes for him packman May 2018 #125
No one should ever forget that this prick started the whole nightmare rolling. still_one May 2018 #126
here we go again G_j May 2018 #127
K&R geardaddy May 2018 #129
Sounds reasonable. ChiTownDenny May 2018 #130
Deep shit. GeorgeGist May 2018 #131
Boink. Scurrilous May 2018 #132
I will not forget or forgive Nader Gothmog May 2018 #136
He costs dems NH in 2000 kevink077 May 2018 #139
A well-meaning and intelligent man that became desperate to remain relevant and famous. byronius May 2018 #142
Sorry keepleft101 May 2018 #144
No he's not.... Adrahil May 2018 #145
Nader is still an asshole Gothmog May 2018 #146
Little Ralfie Rumplesuit Screaming "Look at me! Look at me!" Wolf Frankula May 2018 #149
I like to K & R these once a year or so. BootinUp May 2018 #150
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
101. I assume you're speaking about Nader
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:52 AM
May 2018

He was the one on TV saying 3rd parties should run and not unite against Trump.

I'm not dividing anything. Nader is not a Democrat, nor a Democratic ally.

Gothmog

(145,179 posts)
6. Nader was Rove's puppet
Thu May 10, 2018, 06:50 PM
May 2018

Last edited Tue Sep 26, 2023, 10:12 AM - Edit history (1)

I will never forgive Nader. Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html


Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

lovemydogs

(575 posts)
7. Maybe you should hate the Supremes rather then Nadar
Thu May 10, 2018, 06:55 PM
May 2018

Afterall, it is the right of people to run. You cannot ban people from running as it is their right and our founding fathers wanted as many people running and not have it come down to two or three only parties.
If you are upset, maybe you should direct your anger at the Supremes. I have for 18 years.
I never blamed Nadar for running as it was his right.
I blamed the Supremes.

MythosMaster

(445 posts)
11. Thank you.
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:01 PM
May 2018

No particular order of blame...

Jeb
Katherine Harris
The Media's issues during the campaign
TN voters
The medias coverage of the campaign
Al Gore
FL voters
Fox News calling FL for w.
SCOTUS
The media coverage of the recount
Brooks Bro's rioters
The recount
The media's coverage since...

mcar

(42,309 posts)
43. Add
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:03 PM
May 2018

Nader breaking his promise to not campaign in tight states - and his pulling the both parties are the same crap.

MythosMaster

(445 posts)
48. no...
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:15 PM
May 2018

All the other things I mentioned far outway some mean things he said about "both parties".

Butterfly ballot comes to mind also.

That was a media/DNC talking point for failure to fight the recount.

Al had a chance and he blew it... had he won his HOME of state of TN, FL would have been irrelevant.

And then there is this...


MythosMaster

(445 posts)
55. ummm
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:24 PM
May 2018

you are saying that mean words brought Gore down? ummm no, but you can believe it.

Not buying it.

But go ahead and keep wasting your time hating on something from 18 years ago that has no bearing on what we are up against today.

I blame the failure of the so called plutocratic forth estate because without them we would never would have had bush or trump.

I would also like to add to my list James Baker.

MythosMaster

(445 posts)
97. Yeah, I think we all did live through it.
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:05 AM
May 2018

And you can cling to your reactionary feelings.

I will stick to the facts.

mcar

(42,309 posts)
102. Well bless your heart!
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:58 AM
May 2018

How nice of you to give me permission to "cling to my reactionary feelings. "

Nitram

(22,794 posts)
128. Nader was a hero of mine until he helped Bush win and we ended up invading Iraq.
Fri May 11, 2018, 12:32 PM
May 2018

Actions have consequences.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
75. How many Democrats have carried Tennessee sense then
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:58 PM
May 2018

? Notice how Trump did not win his home state of New York. Nader never carried his home state anytime he ran for President. The only thing Nader and the Green party ever managed to do is help repukes get elected. Nader can talk about protecting the environment and worker rights until the cows come home that fact remains the green party has never procured nothing for no one unless you count republicans by their failure to understand a basic concept that republicans use called divide and conquer.

MythosMaster

(445 posts)
94. I believe trump was the first to "win"
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:00 AM
May 2018

without carrying his home state.

But I sure expect the guy that was Senator from that state to carry his home state that does not have the baggage of trump.

So no.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
109. Amen..
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:12 AM
May 2018

thanks for that reminder.. some people just need to cling to a false narrative.. it comforts them, absolves the failings of their favorite politicians that are doing just fine after all these disastrous elections..

MythosMaster

(445 posts)
148. They are the same people
Mon May 14, 2018, 05:17 PM
May 2018

blaming Bernie from what I can tell... Some people have too much time on their hands to hate.

Not me I am looking for employment that will help me make ends meet.

Just getting by now. Too old to join the army.

progressoid

(49,988 posts)
61. Let's not forget butterfly ballots.
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:48 PM
May 2018

Or 87000 illegally purged voters.
Or the 308,000 Democrats who voted for Bush, compared to less than 24,000 who voted for Nader.


MythosMaster

(445 posts)
96. I added the butterfly also to another post.
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:02 AM
May 2018

But some people have a lot of time on their hands to hate.

If anything Nader existing is at the bottom, but some people want it to be first. It is easier for them.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
17. Just because one HAS a right....
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:06 PM
May 2018

does not mean it is always wise to exercise it.

I don't want to ban anyone from running. I want them to exercise good judgment is the face of political disaster.

I repeat. FUCK. RALPH. NADER.


Gothmog

(145,179 posts)
18. Due to Nader's being an asshole we have the iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting VRA
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:07 PM
May 2018

Nader is responsible for the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the voting rights act. Nader was solely responsible for bush being elected in 2000 and for bush putting Alito and Roberts on the SCOTUS. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket," when Cook was writing about "The Next Nader Effect," in The New York Times on 9 March 2004. Cook said, "Mr. Nader, running as the Green Party nominee, cost Al Gore two states, Florida and New Hampshire, either of which would have given the vice president [Gore] a victory in 2000. In Florida, which George W. Bush carried by 537 votes, Mr. Nader received nearly 100,000 votes [nearly 200 times the size of Bush's Florida 'win']. In New Hampshire, which Mr. Bush won by 7,211 votes, Mr. Nader pulled in more than 22,000 [three times the size of Bush's 'win' in that state]." If either of those two states had gone instead to Gore, then Bush would have lost the 2000 election; we would never have had a U.S. President George W. Bush, and so Nader managed to turn not just one but two key toss-up states for candidate Bush, and to become the indispensable person making G.W. Bush the President of the United States -- even more indispensable, and more important to Bush's "electoral success," than were such huge Bush financial contributors as Enron Corporation's chief Ken Lay.

All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn't even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn't count in these calculations at all.) Nader's 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida "victory" for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, "Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?" (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, "We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore." David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, "Nader to Crash Dems Party?" and he wrote: "In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader's Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore's loss." Nationwide, Harvard's Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, "Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?" (also on the internet) presented "Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates," showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader's voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn't have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn't been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida's Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn't included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,835 posts)
21. Nader could have run without pushing that BS that there's no difference between Gore and Bush.
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:25 PM
May 2018

That would have been the honest thing to do.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,835 posts)
77. Sure.
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:04 PM
May 2018

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/30/ralph-nader/nader-almost-said-gore-bush-but-not-quite/
So no, Nader never explicitly said "it doesn't really matter whether Gore or Bush is president." But his talk of "Republicrats," "Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum," and "one corporate party" left many people — friend, foe and impartial observer alike — with the impression that that's what he believed. We find Nadar's statement that he "never said" it to be Barely True.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,835 posts)
115. I linked you to politiFACT.com
Fri May 11, 2018, 10:43 AM
May 2018

You yourself posted a laundry list of factors in Gore's loss and I agree with them. I also believe Nader's campaign was a factor but I don't think anybody is trying to dump the whole loss on him.

cab67

(2,992 posts)
28. I blame Nader.
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:43 PM
May 2018

No one questions whether it's his right. But it was a colossally stupid thing to do, and much of our current predicament could have been avoided had he not siphoned votes away from Gore. That is an objective fact and not merely my opinion.

Cha

(297,196 posts)
81. How about fucking both? they both had a big hand
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:09 PM
May 2018

in bush getting in. Fucking Nader lied his damn head off.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
107. lovemydogs..
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:07 AM
May 2018

Obama agrees with you on this one (as I do)...

“If something needs fixing, then lace up your shoes and do some organizing,” the President implored. “If you’re disappointed by your elected officials, grab a clip board, get some signatures, and run for office yourself.”

[link:http://time.com/4631121/president-obama-farewell-speech-politics-participation-democracy/|

Gothmog

(145,179 posts)
141. The SCOTUS would not have a chance to rule if Nader had not taken so many votes away
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:33 PM
May 2018

Look at post 18 on this thread https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210600840#post18 Nader is the reason why Florida was so close. In addition, Gore would have won a couple of other states but for Nader being an asshole

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
12. Was on Ari's show....
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:04 PM
May 2018

Flogging a book and talking about how third parties should run, rather than unite against Trump.

Idiot.

monmouth4

(9,696 posts)
15. He is such a creep, Green is good, Dems bad, need to look in a mirror. So sick of this
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:05 PM
May 2018

crap and Ari, please, don't do that again..

Gothmog

(145,179 posts)
32. Then I can erase it without watching
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:50 PM
May 2018

Thank you for the warning

There is no need to waste time watching an asshole like Nader

MyOwnPeace

(16,926 posts)
20. Yep!
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:20 PM
May 2018

I'm in the "F-R-N" camp!!!!!!

His "right" to civic duty caused a shit-load of civic chaos....................

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
24. and so timely and so valuable. Thank you for your depth and reason that makes us all better people.
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:35 PM
May 2018

circle jerk threads are so infrequent here...this one is such a breath of musky air.
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
39. Because jill steins advocacy created modern consumer protections, transportation safety
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:58 PM
May 2018

And laws that make sure our food doesnt kill us?

ProfessorGAC

(65,013 posts)
100. Greatly Overstated
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:52 AM
May 2018

Was he an advocate for those things? Of course. Was he the reason that GM ALREADY had teams of engineers working on finding ways to make cars safer? Not hardly. All three of the things you mentioned were already in motion before Ralph became a public advocate.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
117. Not true. In fact GM had teams most active in discrediting nader and his advocacy groups
Fri May 11, 2018, 11:07 AM
May 2018

Your statement is is like saying exxon mobile has teams researching global warming so we. Who cares about climate advocacy? When in fact most of their efforts are to sweep them under the rug.

ProfessorGAC

(65,013 posts)
120. That Doesn't Contradict A Thing I Said
Fri May 11, 2018, 11:16 AM
May 2018

GM, Ford, Chrysler and 4 European car makers all had teams working on things like seat belts, crumple zones, padded dashboards, etc. in the late 50's.

I also never said advocacy wasn't important.

But, if you want to have blind faith in a guy who, as his greatest skill, is self-promotion, be my guest.

By the way, Exxon Mobil DID NOT have teams researching global warming until it became settled science. They were behind the curve. The car makers were not. They were out front on this. Whether the decision makers delayed going forward until the government and public demanded it doesn't negate the fact that the seat belt, padded dash and steering wheel and crumple designs were already engineered.

Last point: you are aware that later actual empirical testing showed Nader was wrong about the Corvair, right? Completely wrong. Car was not, by any statistical measure, any less safe than any other car on the road at that time, and safer than many.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
121. Nader founded the legal organizations and grasssroots that sparked the consumer
Fri May 11, 2018, 11:21 AM
May 2018

Advocacy movement. His books shaped public opinion in a way that forces these companies to make the changes you were referring to. There is no reason to believe that these companies acted out of their own volition. They needed strong grassroots pressures and like it or not Nader was the spark that created the networks of activists PIRGs which made real changes to our laws on the consumer advocacy front.

Susan Calvin

(1,646 posts)
44. Yes, he has done good things, but
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:03 PM
May 2018

He doesn't appear to grasp that we currently live in a binary electoral system, and that any third-party candidate is most likely helping Republicans.

And that pushing the Democratic party left and trying to keep it honest is the best that can be done right now.

I don't contend that he cost us presidential elections; I contend that it was stupid to even take the chance.

BannonsLiver

(16,372 posts)
89. So that gets him a lifetime pass?
Thu May 10, 2018, 11:31 PM
May 2018

Not in my book it doesn’t. OJ was a nice guy...before he brutally murdered 2 people. Lots of people have done great things who went on to be insufferable pieces of shit later in life like Nader has.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
90. Cerainly not a blanket "FU,"
Fri May 11, 2018, 01:28 AM
May 2018

Or vice versa... If i had to trade a President Al Gore for all of those other things, I would still keep it as is.

Lonestarblue

(9,986 posts)
40. Why is Nader even on television?
Thu May 10, 2018, 07:58 PM
May 2018

I saw him on Ari Melber’s show and was so irritated I shut him off. Why is MSNBC even having this has-been on any show!

JI7

(89,249 posts)
41. He knows how to win. He helped his candidate Bush win in 2000
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:02 PM
May 2018

He also refused to endorse Paul Wellstone until late in the race.

But after wellstone died he used him to attack other Democrats.

WhiteTara

(29,706 posts)
59. That's spelled Nadir
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:38 PM
May 2018

the point of the celestial sphere that is directly opposite the zenith and vertically downward from the observer

Stuart G

(38,421 posts)
60. I say it is a mixed bag...
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:42 PM
May 2018




which.........saved tens of thousands of lives over the years...(check out auto deaths after 84 you will see a significant reduction.....)..hit this link and look at deaths after 1980..(began to go down significantly after seatbelts were required and other safety devices...1984..Just as important,,,safety regulations reduced significant injuries by tens of thousands. People with minor injuries...could have been killed without the seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones...etc..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year


Nader resulted in Bush getting elected...Bush defines the word..asshole

Bush/ asshole....was so bad, resulted in Obama being elected...guess what?..Obama also saved tens of thousands of lives...with health care legislation...Would Obama have been elected, if Bush were not such a complete asshole?....what do you think?...
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
62. As much as I love Obama....
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:57 PM
May 2018

I’m not sure his election justifies the disaster that the Bush 43 Presidency was.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
64. He was on TV saying
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:00 PM
May 2018

3rd parites should not unite with Democrats against Trump. I can’t think of a better thing to be righteously indignant about.

R B Garr

(16,951 posts)
65. Wow, that is very revealing. Bush was almost 20 years ago, and
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:10 PM
May 2018

Nader still has too much of an ego to admit he was responsible for that Republican disaster. Sounds familiar.

I still mourn for what could have been with Al Gore!

progressoid

(49,988 posts)
66. Golly, it's almost as if he ran as a third party candidate or something.
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:16 PM
May 2018

Somebody will always run as a third party candidate. It happens every election cycle. How hard is that to understand?

Cha

(297,196 posts)
83. "indignation".. Asshole Liar fucking ralph fucking nader.
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:14 PM
May 2018

What, you don't like people giving their opinion on a political discussion board?

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
105. Don't you just love it? Everything is always black and white.
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:03 AM
May 2018

We should either hate someone or love them unreservedly. Never mind that almost no one deserves either.

Nader may be wrong here (and in fact, I think he is right. I want third parties to run, but I want them to start locally, where they have a chance to build something over time).

And of course it is a lie that he cost Gore the election, when 300,000 Democrats voted for Bush.

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
67. People, please get over yourselves.
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:18 PM
May 2018


Why stop at blaming Ralph Nader? Let's blame the rabbit that scared Jimmy Carter and caused him to lose to Ronald Reagan.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
72. Yes. "Srsly."
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:28 PM
May 2018

Our country is facing an existential crisis and what does Nader say? That third parties shouldn't unite with Democrats against Trump.

He does not understand what it happening. And anyone who supports that ass apparently doesn't either.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
99. Party loyalty and public safety go hand in hand in this case
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:43 AM
May 2018

thousands of Americans died in Iraq thanks to Nader helping Bush win. Anything meaningful Nader did happened before he ran for president no good came of it.

radical noodle

(8,000 posts)
70. Did you perhaps see him ranting on Ari Melber's show today?
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:23 PM
May 2018

What an ass... back to his same old nonsense. He didn't cause Gore to lose. No sir! It was a simple choice and he had the right... blah, blah, blah.

 

The_Casual_Observer

(27,742 posts)
78. Nader is like that friend your parents had
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:05 PM
May 2018

The one that has All the answers, the know-it-all. As you grew up you realized the guy was full of shit. What sounded good never worked in actual real life practice and led to disaster.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
86. Funny......... the first time I heard it was when
Thu May 10, 2018, 11:12 PM
May 2018

a friend overturned a Corvair.

Entirely the friend's fault.

oasis

(49,382 posts)
87. No Nader... Then no Bush Presidency, no 9/11, no Patriot Act, no Iraq War. nt
Thu May 10, 2018, 11:25 PM
May 2018

Fuck Nader and x 2 Susan Sarandon.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
95. He crawls out of his crypt before a key midterm to start bashing democrats 24/7.
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:01 AM
May 2018

Nothing new to see here.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
133. How much does the RNC pay Nader
Fri May 11, 2018, 03:42 PM
May 2018

for this shit?

If he helps the republicans retain power in the midterms this country is going full on fascist and Nader knows this just like we do.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
103. 300,000 Democrats voted for Bush in Florida.
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:00 AM
May 2018

That's just the facts. So, no, Nader did not actually cost Gore that election. You could, ultimately, blame the Supreme Court who stopped the recount. Or you could just blame those Dems who voted for Bush, when the actual margin turned out to be a few hundred votes.

Cha

(297,196 posts)
110. Yep.. the asshole was on tv pushing 3rd parties.. so people on a
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:14 AM
May 2018

political Democratic discussion board are voicing their disgust.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
111. Boss Nader...
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:24 AM
May 2018

He's an anti-union prick, too.

http://timshorrock.blogspot.ca/2006/06/boss-nader-or-how-i-was-fired-by-ralph.html

Amid a dispute with the staff of one of his flagship publications in 1984 over its editorial content and a bid by staff members to form a union, Nader responded with the same kind of tactics that he has elsewhere condemned: He fired the staff, changed the locks at the office, unsuccessfully tried to have one employee arrested, and hired permanent replacements.

When the fired workers appealed the action to federal authorities, Nader filed a countersuit. Applying a legal tactic that employers commonly use to resist union-organizing efforts, Nader claimed that the fired workers were trying to appropriate his business. Nader spurned efforts by other progressives to mediate the fight, and he refused an offer to settle the litigation by simply signing a declaration that his workers thenceforth would have the right to organize.

"I was shocked by how Ralph acted," said John Cavanagh, director of the Institute for Policy Studies, who tried to mediate the dispute. "He seemed unable to see how this conflicted with his ideals." Cavanagh, who says he likes and respects Nader and supported his 2000 presidential run, said he was particularly surprised that Nader refused a dialogue on the dispute: "That's not the way progressives are supposed to act."


Sid

The Polack MSgt

(13,188 posts)
135. How did the editor miss this glaring typo?
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:21 PM
May 2018
Nader spurned efforts by other progressives to mediate the fight


Should read "Nader spurned efforts by progressives to mediate the fight" It bugs me when such obvious errors make it in to publication.

BTW Ralphie boy - The Corvair was no more unsafe than any other mid 60s car.

You hyped it up and made a fortune providing lawsuit ammo to unscrupulous lawyers, but it was always bullshit, just like your "Political" career. A scam intended to make you wealthy and famous

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
118. I couldn't agree more
Fri May 11, 2018, 11:10 AM
May 2018

I have been seething since 2000. The fucking Green Party has fucked this country more than any other entity in our history.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
125. I once admired Nader and had great hopes for him
Fri May 11, 2018, 12:15 PM
May 2018

leading America to a more progressive, greener country. Unfortunate he went off the rails and could never get it back on track. What a country we could have been if the Green party and become viable.

Gothmog

(145,179 posts)
136. I will not forget or forgive Nader
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:24 PM
May 2018

Nader is an arrogant asshole who gave us (i) the Iraq war, (ii) Citizens United, (iii) the gutting of the voting rights act and (iv) Trump

kevink077

(365 posts)
139. He costs dems NH in 2000
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:29 PM
May 2018

Florida should not have mattered. Nader took enough votes from Gore to swing the state. His idiot voters did not think Gore was liberal enough lol.. I will never forgive him or his brain dead voters.

byronius

(7,394 posts)
142. A well-meaning and intelligent man that became desperate to remain relevant and famous.
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:38 PM
May 2018

And definitely caused some serious damage to himself and the nation.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
145. No he's not....
Fri May 11, 2018, 07:32 PM
May 2018

Saying that third party candidates should not unite with Democrats against Trump is not being a good guys.

Wolf Frankula

(3,600 posts)
149. Little Ralfie Rumplesuit Screaming "Look at me! Look at me!"
Mon May 14, 2018, 09:32 PM
May 2018

When that asshole dies, let's bury him in a Corvair.

Wolf

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