I now believe Joe Biden will run for President in 2020.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

Last edited Fri May 11, 2018, 08:24 PM - Edit history (1)

I think he is so disgusted with TraitorTrump he will get into the race if, for no other reason, than to use his time taking TraitorTrump apart.

"Joe Biden slams White House over Trump aide's remark about John McCain's illness: Decency has 'hit rock bottom with this administration'"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/11/joe-biden-rips-white-house-over-john-mccain-illness-joke.html

Don't piss off Joe!

If he runs, I will support him.

Please rec if you want to see Joe Biden run in 2020.

Edited to add;
https://americanpossibilities.org

(thanks for the link, handmade34)

[guillaumeb]

1. Perhaps someone younger?

It is time for the baby boomers to quit the political arena.

A boomer.

[karynnj]

2. Fine the baby boomers should quit the political arena - Biden is NOT a baby boomer

He is a war baby, born before 1945 considered the first year of the baby boom.

[guillaumeb]

5. Even more reason.

[Cha]

4. FYI.. Biden's not a Boomer.

[guillaumeb]

6. I have been enlightened.

But I still feel the Democrats need new faces.

[cyclonefence]

127. Yes, he's too old to be a boomer.

and too old to run for President imo. Love Joe but would not support him.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

7. Perhaps,

But, our government is in a massive mess and needs someone with a ton of experience to help straighten things out. I believe Joe Biden is the best qualified candidate on the radar right now.

Can you name anyone better qualified?

[guillaumeb]

20. I am not questioning his qualifications to be President.

There are many who are qualified, but at a certain point I feel that politicians should retire from the national stage.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

24. There will be lots of candidates, around 25-40 at last count.

Dealing with the disaster TraitorTrump is creating is going to require someone with exceptional qualifications so we don't get into worse condition waiting for someone "younger" or "newer" to get on-the-job experience.

I can certainly be persuaded that youth serves us as long as I see the kind of qualifications we need to repair the damage.

Who is best qualified if not Joe Biden?

Persuade me.

[BadgerMom]

82. My thinking aligns with yours.

Although I’ve always liked Joe, in his previous presidential runs, he’s not been my choice. His age wouldn’t be a positive in a 2020 run. But Trump is old. Biden’s experience and positions could convince me because the country will be a train wreck by 2020 and rebuilding could benefit greatly from guidance from a veteran politico. Kamala Harris or Joe Kennedy or Beto O’Rourke or one of the Castro twins would all be younger possible running mates. Let him help lift up the next generation and the country after this fiasco.

[Progressive2020]

88. Joe Is Qualified

I would vote for him in the General Election if he won the Democratic Primary. Still, I would prefer to see someone else. It is not just his age, but also he has been on the scene for too long. I would like to see someone with a mix of experience and newness to the Presidential contest. Joe has had his shot at the Presidency. We need new faces, but with the right experience.

Personally, I like Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York. He has never run for the Presidency, but he has a good resume and great Executive Experience as Governor. He has Federal experience as the former Secretary of HUD during the Clinton Administration. I also like Cuomo because he is tough. He is a Street Fighter who knows how to throw a punch. I think we need someone like that to go up against the blustery coward Trump.

I think if Cuomo got the Nomination, he would have a lot of great people to choose as a Running Mate. I like Kamala Harris. There are plenty of other rising stars in the Democratic Party (Adam Schiff, Cory Booker, etc.) that would be good running mates.

So Cuomo is tough, a political street fighter who has won progressive victories in New York (Marriage Equality, Gun Control, Free College Tuition Program, etc.).

[Jim Lane]

108. Andrew Cuomo has some major negatives

In 2020, the Democratic nominee, whoever it is, will surely want to push the issue of the Trump administration's corruption. Cuomo's record on that score is bad. He tried to look tough by appointing the Moreland Commission to investigate corruption in Albany. Then, when the Commission went beyond being a PR stunt and displayed too much dedication to actually doing its job, he abruptly disbanded it.

The Commission had been investigating two notable Cuomo cronies, Assembly speaker Sheldon Silver (a Democrat) and Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos (a Republican). After Cuomo called off what he called "his" commission, Preet Bharara, the federal prosecutor in Manhattan, picked up the investigations and got convictions against both of them.

Then there's this, from the "Appointee donations" section of Cuomo's Wikipedia bio:

On his first day in office, Cuomo renewed an executive order signed by Eliott Spitzer which prohibited Governors of New York from receiving donations from gubernatorial appointees.[132] A February 2018 investigation by The New York Times, however, revealed that the Cuomo administration had quietly reinterpreted the order, and that Cuomo had collected $890,000 from 24 of his appointees, as well as $1.3 million from the spouses, children and businesses of appointees.[132] Some donations were made to Cuomo just days after the donor was appointed.[132]

In March 2018, The New York Times reported that Cuomo had rewritten the disclaimer language on his campaign website for the executive order barring donations from appointees.[133] The website added two caveats whereby some gubernatorial appointees are allowed to donate to the Governor, which The Times said could potentially lead to more donations from appointees to the Governor.[133] The Cuomo campaign returned $2,500 donation from one appointee who was in violation of the new disclaimer, but still retains the approximately $890,000 raised from other appointees.[133]

On policy issues, he has a mixed record. If he decides to run (my prediction: he will), his record will come under scrutiny for the good and the bad.

[Progressive2020]

111. I Appreciate Your Post

I don't think much of this stuff will stick to Cuomo. Skelos and Silver were not Cuomo's chronies; they were the Republican Leader of the NYS Senate (Skelos) and the Democratic Leader of the NYS Assembly (Silver). They were not Allies of his.

I think Cuomo's ethical record is a bit murky, but otherwise there is no "there" there. The stuff about receiving donations from appointees seems a bit obscure and technical and nothing has arisen out of it. I think Cuomo has already gone through a process of vetting just from being Governor, so I really do not think that anything like this, the Moreland Commission, etc, will amount to anything significant.

I am not really interested in Cuomo for his purity, but rather because I think that he would be a tough and dangerous opponent to Trump. Cuomo is not a progressive idealist, but is a tough-minded political pragmatist who gets stuff done and does enact progressive policies, from Gun Control to Marriage Equality to Free College Tuition.

We need someone who can counter-punch against Trump, and I think that Cuomo is cut out to do that. I think that some names that get floated for the Democratic Candidacy are either too wonkish or too nice to go up against Trump. I would prefer to have a progressive idealist as President, but what we need to defeat Trump is not a Saint but rather a Street Fighter. I think Cuomo fills that bill.

I do appreciate your points and do not entirely disagree with them, but I feel like the case for Cuomo as a candidate is still strong despite the drawbacks you point out.

[mvd]

140. I don't agree that Cuomo is a good choice, but welcome to DU

I personally would rather have Biden than Cuomo. And neither would be my first choice.

[Progressive2020]

147. Thanks

It is good that people here can have different views and ideas yet still get along. We need to support any good candidate that can get rid of Trump and repair the country.

[lapucelle]

159. Cuomo is my governor. I don't think he's a good choice either.

[crazycatlady]

190. I like Cuomo

He was actually my first choice in 2016 (fantasy choice as I knew he wouldn't run against the Clintons). I worry about his lack of charisma and his dirty laundry for a national run though.

[Progressive2020]

192. Cuomo 2020?

I am pretty certain that he will run for the Presidency. I am a New Yorker, so I have been following Cuomo's career for a long time. He does not have his Father's eloquence, but I would argue that he has a kind of rough charisma.

As far as dirty laundry goes: I think he has sort of been inoculated against this by the New York Press. If there were a major scandal involving Cuomo, we would have already seen it. It would already be out.

Also, he could steal a page from the Trump play book and deny everything and then attack his opponent. Trump got elected after the Access Hollywood Tapes and a myriad of otherallegations. It did not stop him so why should it stop Cuomo?

I think Cuomo is a tough guy, and that is what we need against Trump- a tough Democrat who is willing to get into the arena and fight. The Era of Polite Politics is over.

Thanks for your post.

[crazycatlady]

193. I'm originally from NY

I voted for Cuomo for AG in 2006 before moving. I didn't know much about his father (he was first elected when I was 2), but I did meet him and shake his hand in 4th grade. I was never eligible to vote for him.

One thing about charisma-- in the day and age of YouTube and social media, a political speech can go viral in a matter of minutes. Usually a passionate speech about a topic will at least generate organic shares. I have yet to see a Cuomo speech like this. (I did read his book and there are a lot of issues he speaks very passionately about). For an office like POTUS, I'd at least like to see one speech like that go viral.

True about the scandals, but he's also never had a challenger that's received national attention until this year (and it is the age of celebrity politicians). Let's see how he comes out after Cynthia Nixon.

[Progressive2020]

194. Good Point

Good Point about Cynthia Nixon. I think this year's Governor's Race will be a good dry run for a Cuomo Presidential bid.

I am a Progressive, more Progressive than Cuomo, but I am willing to back Cuomo because I think he could really bring the fight to Trump like few others could. That is what we need right now.

I think that Hillary was too respectful of Trump in 2016. She took the High Road, which made sense at the time. But now, knowing Trump, we have to go down to the ground and fight him tooth and nail. The Age of Civil Politics is over. We need an aggressive candidate.

If Cuomo wins the Presidency, we will get some Progressive Policies enacted. Cuomo knows a winning issue when he sees one. When Bernie popularized the idea of Free College Tuition, Cuomo got on board and created the Excelsior Scholarship in New York, free SUNY tuition for qualified students. Cuomo has enacted strong Gun Control, Marriage Equality, etc. So he does do progressive policies, for pragmatic political reasons.

Yes, it would be good if some Cuomo speeches went viral, but I don't see Cuomo as a trendy, sound bite person. He is a pretty straight forward speaker. He does know how to verbally counter=punch against his opponents. So, we will see what develops.

[lapucelle]

157. Let me think a minute... N/T

[LanternWaste]

205. New Coke was such a winning product

Relevant knowledge and practical experience often take a back seat to the simplistic commercial branding of freshness.

A problem even on (if not especially on) the left.

[Thekaspervote]

80. Agree! Plus with Joe he will do what's best for the country without thought for his own gain

[Mrsmoodle]

132. Biden/Harris

Biden to clean up the mess and Harris for youth, diversity and merit

[S.E. TN Liberal]

134. Mrsmoodle, welcome to DU... nm

[Mrsmoodle]

146. Thank you

Lurking since 2001

[cbreezen]

16. Genuinely interested...

What age would be ideal?

I was born in 1965, tail end of the boomers.

So, we are looking for "electable" presidential candidates between the ages of 35 and 53.

I'm open to this. However, at this time, I'm at a loss as to who this might be.

[guillaumeb]

21. There is no ideal age.

There are plenty of young racists and fascists. My political views are basically aligned with Bernie Sanders worldview, but Sanders failed to see the powerful connection between class based politics and race based politics.

[XRubicon]

22. Perhaps anyone not a republican?

or up to their ass in russian money and blackmail?

I'll vote for a ham sandwich at this point...

[dhill926]

79. A ham sandwich indeed...

I'm with ya...

[Eko]

28. I dont know why you have to show intolerance for older Democrats.

Couldnt help it.

[guillaumeb]

33. Self-intolerance?

I am 67. Perhaps a Freudian could explain it to me.
PS
I would have done the same if I were in your place.

[Eko]

36. Could be.

67 is the new 35 or something right? Im 45 and it feels like 60 so,,,,,,,,,,,,

[guillaumeb]

38. Higher mathematics?

[Eko]

43. LOL.

[CountAllVotes]

130. I know that feeling!

The new "40" is feeling like you are 80!

[Blue_true]

32. How about if he promised to serve only one term if he wins? nt

[guillaumeb]

34. With who as Vice President?

Just wondering.

[Blue_true]

39. Harris, Klobuchar, Joe Kennedy, Joaquin Castro. nt

[guillaumeb]

40. Better.

Perhaps the issue is that with money dominating politics, proven commodities attract more investors.

[pangaia]

45. Al Franken !!

[Susan Calvin]

52. No.

Al for *president*.

He was railroaded. Everyone knows that, and I know who I hold it against.

He handled it correctly (not his fault that he didn't get the investigation he asked for) and is ready to again take his rightful place that he has by god earned.

Just MHO.

[pangaia]

53. Well, that's even better !!!!

How have ya been?

[Susan Calvin]

57. Hangin' in there.

[Trumpocalypse]

152. Franken chose to resign

And not put up a fight.
I would want someone who is a bit tougher and back down so quickly.

[Susan Calvin]

166. I sorta agree, but

I hope his choice will work out in the long run.

He is a smart cookie.

[Trumpocalypse]

168. I prefer a fighter

Not someone who quits at the first sign of trouble.

[Progressive2020]

185. I Think Franken Was Smart To Go

If he stayed in the Senate he would have been subject to an Ethics Investigation. That would have been a huge cloud and a huge distraction. Franken would not be able to do any Senate business effectively while being under investigation. He was wise to leave and fight another day. There were some Democrats who were ready to throw him under the bus. Staying in the Senate and enduring that would just be a gift to the Republicans.

Was what happened to him right? I personally do not think so. I think the charges were trumped up (no pun intended). I hope that Franken can get back into the game somehow. He is a comedian and politician, so maybe he could go back to having his own national radio show like he did when he was at Air America. From such a vantage point he could continue to contribute to the democratic effort and fight against the Right Wing Radio Regime.

I do not think staying in the Senate and fighting it out would have helped him. When you are playing chess and you lose a piece, you withdraw if that is the smart thing to do. I think that Franken is a fighter, but he is also smart. Hopefully he will find a place where he can continue to fight and use his talents.

[Trumpocalypse]

186. I take your point.

But if you can’t blame Franken for resigning, you really blame other Democrats for asking him to resign.

[Progressive2020]

188. That Is Valid

I guess I can see that other Dems wanted him to resign to avoid bringing a cloud over the whole Senate and the Party. It was a bad situation all around, I guess.

[Volaris]

59. Liz Warren.

I'd vote for that ticket here's why. Biden has the temperament. He ALSO has the exp in the Senate were gonna need to get (firstly) any kind of justice for what's been done, to say nothing of the progressive legislation were going to need to fix this mess. If we take the House, that's simple-majority votes on pretty much everything. The Senate is where those good bills will go to die, unless the executive is staffed with people who know how to twist arms the right way. Biden can be that guy. So can Warren (she know which parts of the bills could be 'cut loose' if need be to get the Best Parts passed).

[guillaumeb]

84. Biden following the example of LBJ?

It could be an interesting combination.

[Volaris]

85. I can see him undertaking that great crusade, yes.

[Bleacher Creature]

66. I've been thinking exactly this for the past couple of weeks.

I could see Hillary doing something similar, but I don't expect her to run, so it would take some unforeseen development to get that to happen.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. Stop with the ageism already... Joe has earned the right to throw his hat into the ring.

[Garrett78]

86. He would be 78 when taking office. The mind and body do deteriorate. That's just a fact. Also...

I don't think Biden, unlike Sanders, will have much appeal with young people. Not that I want Sanders to run--I absolutely do not. Kamala Harris is, at this early stage, my choice.

[Progressive2020]

91. Kamala Is Great

I just feel that she is still a little green. I think she would be a good VP Selection, maybe setting her up for the Presidency further down the line.

[Garrett78]

92. She's no more green than Obama was. Maybe less so, in fact.

[Progressive2020]

99. That Is True

At the time I was a little skeptical of Obama's lack of experience also. The man was very qualified in terms of natural talent and charisma, and this overcame his lack of extensive government experience. Obama was a great President and learned on the job very quickly, but I generally would prefer a candidate to have a bit more experience prior to running for the Presidency.

That said, I am sure that Kamala would do great, I just generally prefer my Presidential Candidates to have a little bit more experience out of the gate. I think that an ideal candidate would have a good mix of both experience and newness.

Joe Biden has maybe been around for too long and has had several runs at the Presidency. Kamala has maybe been around for too short a time. Too much experience, and too little experience. I would prefer someone in the middle, some experience, some newness (ie, has not run for the Presidency several times). Just my view.

If Kamala ran and won the Nomination, I would enthusiastically support her. I would just prefer a candidate with a little more seasoning. I think that she would be a good VP candidate. We have a pretty good Democratic "bench", and Kamala could be positioned for a future Presidential run down the line by running for VP. My two cents. Your views may vary.

[CTyankee]

144. She was VERY aggressive grilling Haspel and wouldn't let her wriggle out of answering the question

she asked. I continue to be impressed by this woman. I think she's got a following...

[DoctorJoJo]

61. Absolutely: We Share a Birthday and He Is WAY Too Old!

[dflprincess]

96. The youngest Boomers are still in their 50s a little early to be put out to pasture.

Joe Biden is not a Boomer, he was born in 1942 and will be 78 years old in 2020. Much as I like him, that is getting a bit old for the job and I do agree it would be nice to see some new people pick up the torch.

It doesn't say much for the Democratic party if we keep recycling the same candidates we've been pushing for the last 20 or more years.

[RealityChik]

115. I think Jay Inslee should run...

And not just because I'm from the state of Washington, where he is governor. He's smart. He's engaging. He's progressive and he gets stuff done! He's a stable family man with no personal scandals to hide. His term as governor ends in 2020. I hope he considers it.

[Kilgore]

177. Bravo!

But you will catch hell for saying it.

[Demsrule86]

3. I wish for younger blood, but I would vote for Joe.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. Me too... hell, I'd vote for Satan if he was the one running against the Shitstain-in-Chief!!!

Do like Joe though... hope he runs. He would add a lot to the debate and, of course, bring incredible experience that we could use right now.

[doc03]

8. He will be 78 are you serious? nt

[S.E. TN Liberal]

13. Absolutely I am serious...

The Democrats do not have any other candidate who is better qualified to clean up the TraitorTrump mess.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

63. Can't argue about Joe's wealth of experience... I don't understand the ageism of some here.

If Hillary announced a third consecutive try to gain the presidency - yes, yes I KNOW she's a retired politician - no doubt, all that ageist prejudice would go right out the window.

[doc03]

148. No I wouldn't suddenly jump on the band wagon for Hillary either. I am 70

myself and I know I can't function anywhere near what I could 20 years ago in any way. Yes Trump is 74
and I think he has a serious case of dementia along with being an f----g moron to start with.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

156. hahaha, agree with you bout BLOTUS... you'll get no argument from me there...

guess I'm saying it all depends on the individual... Biden, Elizabeth, Bernie, Feinstein, Speaker Pelosi showing no signs of slowing down.

[doc03]

161. I know a lady 86 years old that ran 22 half marathons last

year. Another friend 80 rides bikes with us every week, she did 27 miles Wednesday and also goes snow skiing every winter.
So there are some exceptional people but age takes its toll with everyone eventually.

[SouthernIrish]

154. I agree.

Joe is very respected around the world. I would definitely vote for him.

[TexasBushwhacker]

131. Trump will be 74

Short of a physical (and mental) transformation, Biden is in far better shape than Trump, even though he's 4 years older. If he runs with a strong YOUNG candidate for VP, I think he would do fine.

[loyalsister]

143. Yeah... why isn't 35 considered ageist?

Few would argue with an assumption that presidents should have at least 35 yrs of life experience and education before becoming a US president. With that in mind, why did they not choose 40 or 50? I doubt the stats were published, but the founders probably could deduce that 40 or 50 might be a edging up to the end of the life expectancy.

It's currently 78 and final years are naturally marked by physical and intellectual decline. We have extended the number of yrs we can live under those conditions but we have not stopped the natural aging process. The presidency is physically and mentally demanding. I find it hard to believe that the politicians who will be in their late 70s would pursue the presidency. The campaigns alone are exhausting at any age.

[crazycatlady]

191. Consider when the age requirement was written

In 1800 (a little later) per Google, the average lifespan was 38.3 years (a lot more infant mortality then brings it down). People simply didn't live as long as they do now.

[loyalsister]

196. Exactly

78 is the average life span for a man in the US today. Maybe the founding fathers were onto something when they made sure the minimum age was well inside of the range of the average life span. It seems only reasonable to elect Presidents who are at least a few yrs (maybe even a decade or so) shy of that marker. It seems to me that it's just responsible for citizens and candidates to do some math and consider the future.

[crazycatlady]

199. I actually think we need more younger people in office

Congress is more than half Boomers, and that does not reflect the demographics of the American population. For one, they're blind to the issues that disproportionally affect the younger generations (student debt, climate change, gun violence).

In terms of presidential ages, only 3 presidents were in their 40s when first elected (JFK, Clinton, Obama). I can't speak for the first one, but the second two were the best presidents in my lifetime (born 1980, alive during the tail end of Carter but he left office before I was 1).

[loyalsister]

200. For sure!

Climate change is a different reality to consider when one sees themselves as being here in 2030. Lawyers, business executives, military leaders?
No we need more young people with strong science backgrounds to on school boards, city councils, state houses.... My congressional dream team would include many scientists and policy makers who don't have a tight embrace of what US capitalism has become. Also candidates who live, work and play in world's other than the one they know best.
There are a lot of other desireable qualities, but that describes some young local candidates I have gotten to know.
I think that even the youngest presidents you mentioned did not have a sense of the everyday realities climate change may bring. Of course, we were denied that opportunity in 2000.
Obama swept in and enthusiastically saved the flawed capitalism our economic system has become. Young people are looking at the previously unimaginable population shift toward a huge nonworking population.

A reality this new demands the constant urgent question of "what is going to happen to my kids?"

[Heartstrings]

9. Possibly a Joe Biden/Joe Kennedy ticket?

Just a thought...way too early. Need to survive midterms.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. Lil early, yes... but since you brought it up, I'd rather Joe pick a woman to be on the ticket

with him. Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi, or Maxine Waters... not necessarily in that order. They'd all fit nicely as running mates. Same if Bernie wins the nomination.

[Heartstrings]

81. Worth consideration.....

[TomSlick]

10. I'm fine with Joe running.

I'm fine with a lot of Democrats running. It will all washout in the primaries.

Then, we all have to get on aboard with the nominee. No quibbling. No wishing for our individual ideas of perfection. No excuses.

[elocs]

29. " Then, we all have to get on aboard with the nominee. No quibbling.

No wishing for our individual ideas of perfection. No excuses."

Ahh, if wishing made it so. This is the Democratic Party after all and the BoBs will be back.
There will be purity tests and purges and the accusation that some candidates are not 'fill in the blank' enough or too much 'fill in a different blank'.
Never underestimate the ability of Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and then wonder, "how did this ever happen?"

[rainin]

11. If our candidate doesn't speak to black women, we will not win. Can Biden do that?

[Blue_true]

35. Yes, proven history at inclusion. nt

[SunSeeker]

51. Anita Hil might disagree. nt

[Blue_true]

67. He owned up to that mistake a while ago. nt

[EffieBlack]

71. No he hasn't

And his record on desegregation in Delaware is terrible

He still has a whole lot of 'splainin' to do ...

[S.E. TN Liberal]

77. EffieBlack,

He did say he should have done a better job of standing up for Anita Hill. I took that as an admission of regret.

Whatever Joe Biden might have failed at in the past, I believe he has grown wiser or Barack Obama would never have chosen him as VP.

[EffieBlack]

83. No, he didn't

He said he wished he could have done a better job but it was out of his control.

I wish I had been able to do more for Anita Hill. I owe her an apology,” Biden said. “My one regret is that I wasn’t able to tone down the attacks on her by some of my Republican friends. I mean, they really went after her. As much as I tried to intervene, I did not have the power to gavel them out of order. I tried to be like a judge and only allow a question that would be relevant to ask.”

He claims he didn't have the power to do more. He's neither admitted nor taken ownership for his leading role in that disaster.

And he doesn't get a pass for his past bad behavior just because he was Obama 's VP - Obama made Hillary his Secretary of State. but that sure didn't absolve her of anything. He owes us explanations.

[BannonsLiver]

119. Probably not. She's a conservative.

But hey I knew someone would bring up that old canard sooner or later. And I see someone added some more made up silliness below about Delaware. Too funny.

[EffieBlack]

123. She actually does think that Biden handled this terribly

That’s not an “old canard.” It was a defining point in our history and and opportunity for Biden to show leadership and do the right thing. He didn’t.

[BannonsLiver]

124. Again, ancient and irrelevant news

We live in 2018, not 1991. And He voted against Thomas, as you well now. In any case, old, tired news. Litigated over and over again, though I suspect there’s no amount of ‘splainin’ he could do to meet your bar. Have a lovely day.

[EffieBlack]

135. BS

It’s not “irrelevant.” It’s part of his record.

Funny how his looooong record of experience is supposed to be an attribute making him eminently qualified, but you think we’re not supposed to actually LOOK at or hold him accountable for anything in that record because it’s “ancient and irrelevant.”

You may think it’s too ancient to be relevant, but lots of people don’t. And if he runs, he’s going to have to address it whether you think it matters or not,

[dameatball]

55. So black women would rather stay home and get Trump again?? what the hell are you talking about?

[EffieBlack]

73. Trump voters need to be reached out and catered to. Black women - meh

[Kirk Lover]

12. Joe wouldn't be a bad idea. He knows all the world and domestic players. He knows what to do

to get things back to where they were and to move forward. Folks like him at home and abroad. There are worst choices. There are a lot of REPAIRS that need to be done. VP pick will be important and it will be obviously be someone young. Harris would tick off a lot of boxes.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

15. Kirk Lover, are you thinking "Biden/Harris 2020"?

I think that would be a powerful ticket.

[Sugarcoated]

107. I'm liking that ticket

Works for me

[H2O Man]

14. I like Joe Biden.

I think he is a valuable voice in our party. But I think we need someone "new."

[S.E. TN Liberal]

17. H2O Man,

I am thinking we need someone immensely qualified to take on the enormity of the mess our government is in.

Among the younger Democrats, who might that be?

[H2O Man]

46. Good question.

I'm not sure that I have an equally good answer now, but I am confident that a few people will take on clearer leadership roles by this fall.

At this point, two candidates that I think have that potential are Kamala Harris and Kirsten Gillibrand. I recognize that others may not see them in the same manner I do. But, as a very old man, I see the potential for extraordinary leadership in each of them. Plus, I think each could gain the support of the younger generation.

[SunSeeker]

49. Eric Swalwell, Kamala Harris. nt

[Izzy Blue]

75. I've had my eye on Swalwell for quite awhile too

Good combo him and Harris.
I like Joe but feel he's not sharp enough or articulate for where we are in today's politics.

[EffieBlack]

74. We needed that in 2016 and had an ideal candidate

But she was too "Establishment."

Funny how that works.

[handmade34]

18. ...

https://americanpossibilities.org/

[StevieM]

19. I never had any doubt that Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are both planning to run.

It seems all but certain in my mind.

I will be voting for Tom Steyer.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

31. StevieM,

Until today I believed both would stay out of the race due to their age.

Because of the way TraitorTrump and his lackeys are treating John McCain, I now believe Joe will step up and make the commitment to run.

I still doubt Bernie will run. We will see which of us is the better prognosticator.

[bearsfootball516]

23. I mean...I'd vote for him, but I'd prefer someone younger.

[Susan Calvin]

50. I would vote for him in the general, but

I want someone *else*. Not younger, necessarily, but new blood, not the old guard.

[Runningdawg]

25. I love Joe but...

he comes with too much baggage and too many years. The only way I would vote for him is if it's a choice between him and Trump. We need new blood and people to stop living in the past.

[RandySF]

26. I'm also for Joe as of right now.

[Lulu KC]

27. I'm with him

The pendulum has swung out of the clock. Just designate a fantastic VP.

[Blue_true]

30. I hope for younger, but Joe seems to be fit.

If he runs, I am voting for him. I would love to see him say that he will serve only one term though and pick an excellent VP choice.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

37. Blue_true,

I have also thought he could do the Democrats a huge service if he ran for one term and turned things over to a younger candidate who had four years of learning from Joe.

I really think that would be a winning idea.

[Dopers_Greed]

41. I wish he would have run in 2016

IMO he would have won the Dem primary, beaten Dumpf, and helped Dems win the Senate.

If he won in 2020, I couldn't see him doing more than one term.

[lapucelle]

160. His Iraq War vote wouldn't have been an issue? N/T

[Dopers_Greed]

170. Sadly, I don't think anyone cares anymore.

Most of the country would gladly support a similar war now, I believe.

[lapucelle]

171. No one seemed to care in 2004 either.

I wonder how many will call upon Biden to apologize for his vote if he decides to run for a third time.

[ginny skinny]

42. I would vote for Joe Biden, one thing to think about though...

I would be afraid the GOP would be able to find some woman willing to say he grabbed her ass. He's a touchy feely kind of guy and has been a pol for a long, long time. Is he vulnerable to being Franken-ed?

[S.E. TN Liberal]

47. ginny skinny,

Is this an issue compared to TraitorTrump running?

I believe Biden's reputation could withstand an ass grab complaint.

[ginny skinny]

54. No one's distaste for Trump exceeds mine.

Have we not learned that Trumpkins will overlook anything he (Trump) does while hammering Dems for similar behavior? If Biden's reputation can withstand intense scrutiny in the ass grabbing arena, I would hope his team would vet that heavily before he decides to run. Like I said, I would vote for him.

[jes06c]

90. Any Democrat is vulnerable to being Franken-ed

They're going to pull their dirty tricks no matter who runs. Hell, if Jimmy Carter decided to run, the right wing would try to accuse HIM of grabbing a woman's ass.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

149. jes06c,

It does not matter who the Democratic nominee is, he/she is going to relentlessly attacked over issues real and false.

It is important all Democrats understand this up front and accept they have to deal with it.

[BlueStater]

44. No thanks.

How come the generations that came before Biden's and Trump's knew when to pass the torch, but theirs has to keep running things until they're in the damn dirt? I don't want an 82-year-old president. We've never had a president who's exceeded the age of 77 while in office and I don't think that should change.

[sunRISEnow]

48. Biden has run three times, and now he is old.

We have plenty of Democratic leaders that will be able to fill this role.

[Garrett78]

87. With a habit of putting his foot in his mouth. And I don't see him appealing to young voters.

[sunRISEnow]

94. Right.

[flibbitygiblets]

95. Sometimes young voter love old people. Bernie, Auntie Maxine, Betty White

Plus if he pledges to only serve one term, with a kick-ass running mate...I'm looking at you Kamala!!

[Garrett78]

195. Those who like Bernie and dislike Clinton will, presumably, be anti-Biden.

[demtenjeep]

56. Joe and Joe. Biden/Kennedy

HELL YES

[Hoyt]

58. Another old guy -- Bill Clinton, Obama, Carter, and Kennedy were fairly young. n/t

[AlexSFCA]

64. I don't know he can take on it. The rules have changed and he is too conventional

We need somebody who is focused on winning with some serious media expertise like Avenatti. Is there anyone among democrats as bold as Avenatti?

[Progressive2020]

65. Joe Is No Doubt Qualified

But I feel that he has had several chances already. At his age, if elected, he might have a problem being re-elected for a second term due to his age. Someone said the older generation needs to pass the torch to a younger generation of Democrats. I think that is true. I thank Joe Biden for his service, his tenacity, and his wisdom, but it is time for new blood.

Personally, I like the New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. We need a Street Fighter to take on Trump, someone tough who can counter-punch, not someone who is maybe too polite and too nice for this battle. Cuomo is experienced but not too old. He has strong executive experience in a major State. Cuomo is a pragmatic politician who gets things done. He has advanced a lot of Progressive Policies in New York (Free University Tuition Program, Marriage Equality, etc.). He is battle-tested and can give Trump a taste of his own medicine. And then maybe we New Yorkers can get someone into the Office of the President that we can respect, as opposed tot he dumpster fire that is Trump.

[AlexSFCA]

68. I can only see Kamala Harris right now

We need someone as bold as Avenatti and Kamala does not hold back. She is extremely authentic and super smart. Totally Female Obama. Harris can appeal to every demographics except, possibly, blue collar. Biden should have run in 2016. We are way past the point of no return. All rules have changed.

[NBachers]

69. Biden is the pro - he knows the moves, and he is respected in the world.

We have a lot of fence - mending to do throughout the planet. Joe Biden can do that.

We also have a government which has been dismantled and scattered to the winds. He knows how it works; he can help put it back together.

I've seen him making his moves recently, and I think he is going to run.

I will be proud to enthusiastically vote for Joe Biden for president.

[bucolic_frolic]

72. I believe Trump and Pence

will have the world in such a precarious state by 2020 that we will need someone with instantaneous international stature more than anything else. If Joe Biden can convince America in the primaries, he will be a good choice. If not, we'll find a Senator more likely than a Governor. I wait for an era of plain, straight talking to capture voters' minds and hearts, I don't know how you follow Trump with someone other than that; we've had enough obfuscation and deviousness for several lifetimes.

[Progressive2020]

76. Also

Joe would make a great Secretary of State. His Foreign Policy credentials are top notch. Maybe he would not consider any role less than the Presidency, though.

[Progressive2020]

78. Andrew Cuomo

One of the reasons I would like to see Andrew Cuomo take on Trump is that Cuomo is a street fighter who knows how to counter-punch. I think Cuomo could really give Trump Hell in a debate. Biden is pretty tough also, but again, I think he has had his chances at the Presidency.

Cuomo himself is no Spring Chicken at age 60, but he has the energy, smarts, and toughness to take on Trump. He also has a strong resume and tenure as Governor of New York. He is a hard-nosed, pragmatic politician who gets stuff done. In New York, he has advanced progressive policies such as effective Gun Control, Marriage Equality, Free College Tuition Programs, etc.

I would like to see a tough New York Democrat take on a blustery coward and bully like Trump. We need Democrats who are done playing nice. I think Cuomo could knock Trump out in a Prize Fight, metaphorically speaking.

[Trumpocalypse]

151. Too far right

And is owned by Wall Street

[Progressive2020]

167. Maybe

Cuomo is further Right than I would normally want in a candidate. I would personally rather see a more Progressive candidate, but the thing is this: Cuomo will push Progressive policies if he thinks that will help him politically. And he has done this in New York.

Furthermore, I think that Cuomo would have a strong chance of beating Trump and the Republicans. The combination of these things make me support the idea of his candidacy. He is a tough, pragmatic politician who will enact good policies that will benefit progressive constituents.

Bernie stood for Free University Tuition, so Cuomo set up a Free SUNY Scholarship Program. Gun Control became a more prominent Democratic topic, so Cuomo pushed Gun Control in New York. Cuomo got on board with Marriage Equality. And so on.

So, I would rather see a pure Progressive in office, but the reason I push the idea of a Cuomo Candidacy is because I think that he can beat Trump and would push Progressive Issues if he got in the White House. Cuomo pays his debts. If Progressives help him get into office, he will reward them with Progressive policies.

Another reason I support the idea of a Cuomo Candidacy is that I think that he can fight Trump on Trump's own ground. We need someone who can fight and go to war against Trump. We need an attack dog, not a wonkish politician who will take the high road. Cuomo is a Street Fighter and I think that he has the right temperament and experience to take the fight to Trump. Factor into that the reality that if elected, Cuomo will reward those who helped him get there, including Progressives, by establishing significant Progressive Policies, like he did in New York as Governor.

[Trumpocalypse]

169. He never been much of a fighter

He was AG during the financial crisis and didn’t start a single investigation of Wall Street firms. Then when he became Governor he proposed a tax cut for millionaires that the republicans didn’t even want.

[Progressive2020]

184. Fighter

I maybe did not make myself clear. By the term "fighter", I am talking about his electability, not about fighting for certain policies, causes, or positions. His main cause is getting himself elected and staying in office. He is not some pure progressive, but he is a strong and combative politician. He is pragmatic. Cuomo ran for NYS Attorney General and was elected, and ran for Governor and was twice elected. By "fighting", I am referring to his ability to run campaigns and get elected, not about fighting for certain issues and policies.

I would prefer to see a more Progressive Candidate elected President, but at this point I am a bit skeptical of such a Candidate's chances against Trump. We need someone who can fight Trump and win. We need someone who is tough-minded and aggressive, and I think Cuomo fills that bill.

I think a lot of the more Progressive Democrats may be a bit too mild-mannered to go up against Trump. If we were going up against a more conventional Republican (say a Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney) , I think a more Progressive candidate might be a better choice. A Progressive or a more Moderate Candidate might stand a chance against these types.

But in Trump we have a national emergency and political catastrophe. He needs to be knocked out of the Presidency. We need to fight Trump on his own ground, insult for insult, punch for punch. We need a tough and aggressive Democratic Candidate. Cuomo is tough and aggressive. He is a fighter who has won several different elections. He has the experience, and temperament to take on Trump and re-take the Presidency for the Democratic Party. That is why I support the idea of his candidacy.

[Trumpocalypse]

187. That is a very broad definition of a fighter.

What you are really saying that he’ “Fight” for himself to further his own ambition. Plus he is far more mild mannered than many more liberal candidates.

[Progressive2020]

189. I Guess

I guess that we will just agree to disagree about Cuomo. I think he is an aggressive politician, which is what we need against Trump. I do not see him as mild-mannered at all. He is a bit of an attack dog.

I would rather that our politics were not so course and we could have more principled candidates. Yet in the Age of Trump, we need a Pit Bull to go up against Trump.

Michelle Obama said that "when they go low, we go high". That is a good sentiment, but I don't think it works against Trump. We need to stop playing nice, and call Trump out for the bastard that he is. If he goes low, we have to punch low also.

Yes, Cuomo IS self-interested. I think that we can use that. We need someone who is ambitious and aggressive and on our side. This is a street fight, not a garden party.

[Trumpocalypse]

197. Please post videos of Cuomo

Being an attack dog. I’ve never seen any.

[Progressive2020]

203. Alright

Last edited Mon May 14, 2018, 02:26 PM - Edit history (1)

I do not have the time or the inclination to do an extensive search for videos at this moment. I live in New York and watch the local news shows, including "New York Now" on PBS. They cover State Government. They cover Cuomo. If you are at all interested in Cuomo, you can go online yourself. Here is a quick link to Cuomo speaking at the 2016 Democratic Convention. He attacks the Republicans for being fear mongers-

Another example of Cuomo being an attack dog- He spoke of Cynthia Nixon's candidacy as "silly season", in an implied statement that she is not a serious candidate. Cuomo is belittling her, trying to undercut her image. We will see more of this as we get closer to the Governor's Election in the Fall.

So, that is an example of Cuomo going after an opponent aggressively. Cuomo goes after his political opponents. He is not polite to those who are not respectful to him. He fights his opponents. That is why he would be a good candidate to go up against Trump. I would like to see more Progressive Candidates in general, but I think Cuomo would take the fight to Trump. We need a strong candidate to take on Trump. That is why I like Cuomo.

Edit- There seems to be a problem with the link I posted above. You can find Cuomo speeches by going on YouTube and searching "Andrew Cuomo Speech". His speech at the 2016 Democratic National Convention is online and is about 15 minutes long. In it, he goes after Trump and fear mongering Republicans.

[Trumpocalypse]

206. Video is unavailable.

And it is not up to me to prove your assertion that Cuomo is a fighter. And I've seen his speeches, he's not a fighter.

[Progressive2020]

207. So

We will just disagree. I do not know what your interest in the topic is at this point. I really do not care to prove anything to you. You do not seem to have an open mind. Anything I post you just simply contradict or undermine. You seem impervious to reason or evidence. People can disagree, but respectfully.

It would be very easy for you to find Cuomo's 2016 Convention Speech. If you were serious about having a real discussion, you would look at the evidence. I am not obligated to try and change someone's mind if it is obvious they are not open to discussion, just mere contradiction.

Good luck in the future, though!

[Trumpocalypse]

208. So in other words

You can’t prove that Cuomo is a fighter.

[Progressive2020]

209. Subjective

Whether someone views Cuomo as a fighter is subjective. It is not "provable" one way or the other. You and I could look at the same speech by Cuomo (his 2016 Address to the Democratic National Convention, for example). I could walk away from that speech thinking that Cuomo was aggressive and went after Trump and the Republicans. You might take away from the same speech that Cuomo was not aggressive, not a fighter.

So, I don't think you can "prove" Cuomo is a fighter or not. It is subjective. It is a matter of opinion. You can, on the other hand, alter someone's opinion if they are open to it and willing to have a discussion. If someone is not open-minded, though, there is not much to be done.

To be fair to you, who would -you- consider a strong fighter amongst possible Democrats for 2020? You already know that I favor Cuomo, but you disagree with my opinion that he is a fighter. Who do you think is a tough Democrat to go up against Trump?

I choose Cuomo because I believe he is tough, and he knows how to win elections. He has been elected New York State Attorney General once and Governor of New York State twice. I f he gets re-elected in the Fall, that will be three elections to the Governorship.

Whether you believe that Cuomo is "a fighter" or not, this is incontrovertible evidence that he knows how to run a campaign and get elected. I argue that we need someone like that to go up against Trump.

[Trumpocalypse]

211. You could prove it

By posting some videos. Just saying someone is a fighter over and over doesn’t make it true.

[Progressive2020]

212. I Disagree

Repetitive like you saying "prove it" over and over? Also you have already said that you have seen videos of Cuomo speaking in your prior post. If you have seen all of these videos, why do you need to see more?

I had a technical problem posting a video of Cuomo speaking at the 2016 Democratic Convention. It would be a simple matter for you to find and watch the video that I referred to. Cuomo gave a 15 minute speech at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. It is on Youtube, but I was unable to get the link to work.

In the speech, Cuomo goes after Trump an the Republicans as fear mongers. He goes on the attack. That is what I am talking about. If you want to pursue this discussion, take 20 minutes of your time to watch the video on Youtube.

Anyway, you have not at all addressed the point of my last post at all, which is that whether Cuomo is a fighter or not is subjective and therefore not "provable" one way or another. You just repeat "prove it" over and over again, when the point is that it can not be proven or disproven one way or another. It is opinion, it is subjective. You address none of that. You just repeat "prove it" about an unprovable term. Empty contradiction is not an argument.

[Trumpocalypse]

213. So you can't prove it

And criticizing Trump in a speech doesn’t make anyone a fighter, especially someone who who ran virtually unopposed in every single one of his elections.

[Progressive2020]

214. Finished

Whether Cuomo is a fighter is subjective/unprovable, as I have stated. Opinions can not be proven or disproven. You do not address any of my points or arguments. You make no arguments, just repeat variations on "prove it" over and over. You really are a waste of time.

[Trumpocalypse]

216. Yes you make an assertion

and have to prove it using facts. I'm sorry if that is too much for you to handle.

I just don't see someone who had all his nominations handed to him without a primary & ran virtually unopposed in the general as well as never having the courage to take on Wall Street while he was AG during the financial crisis in 2008 as some sort of street fighter. There is just no evidence that supports that he is a fighter.

[jes06c]

89. Sanders and Warren would be my top choices

And if Biden runs and ends up with the nomination, I'm sure as hell giving him my vote.

[katmondoo]

118. No for Sanders

[OnyxSharpie]

153. Took only 89 replies for either to get mentioned

Hope this website isn’t indicative of the Democratic Party as a whole.

[Marie Marie]

93. I would happily support him.

[videohead5]

97. As long as he's

In good health who cares.he will be in better shape than Trump.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

98. It is not ageism to think Joe Biden has no business running for

President in 2020. It's practicality. He's run before. He lost. He may well have made a wonderful President, but that time is gone.

And as fond of Liz Warren as I am, she's only a year younger than I am, and would be 71 in 2020. Even though she looks a couple of decades younger than, say, Hillary Clinton, who is only two years older than Warren, I don't think anyone over the age of 70 has any business being President. Vice President maybe. But only maybe.

What I find truly disturbing about so many of these conversations on DU is that younger candidates will get a brief nod, and then the crowd swings back to the same old same old. All of whom are old.

It's a huge problem in the Democratic Party leadership. Representatives and Senators who've been in office for decades are praised, but they are doing nothing, zero, nada, zilch, to bring along a younger generation. In case you haven't noticed, an important reason that Republicans have gained the power they have is that they've made an orchestrated effort for the past twenty years or so to bring younger candidates into the fold, groomed them, gotten them elected. Democrats? Not so much.

It also disturbs me greatly that one constant theme on DU pretty much since its inception, has been looking too far ahead to the next Presidential election. The mid terms are almost ignored, which is among the reasons Democrats have done so badly in them.

I wish there were a moratorium on speculating beyond the next election. Or that there'd be a new forum or group for those, and all speculation for future elections were to go there.

Administrators? How about it?

[Progressive2020]

100. I Agree That The Democrats Need New Blood

We have some like that- Corey Booker, Kamala Harris, Adam Schiff, Gavin Newsom.

I think the Old Guard really do need to hand the torch over to a newer generation. Biden is a great guy, but he has run and lost at the Presidency several times.

We need new leadership. And some of these people are not even that young, they just seem "young" in contrast to the Elders that currently lead the Democratic Party, like Schumer, Pelosi, etc. I thank these people for their service, but they need to think of passing the baton to some newer folks.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

104. PoindexterOglethorpe,

If you feel only the next election should be discussed why did you even click on one that says 2020 in the title?

If the 2020 presidential election is less of a priority to you, why don't you carry on your conversation about the 2018 midterms in one of the non-existent 2018 mid-term threads?

Oh wait, nobody is talking about them. But, feel free to be the one and only.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

112. I click on these posts to see what is being said.

And perhaps to lend some sanity to the discussions.

I know that how old someone is really does matter. I am not about to make blanket statements about those over some age or under some age. But still, age matters. Even when those of us of the exact same age have a different take on things.

I'm beyond frustrated that so many here are happily focussed on 2020, as if there weren't a very important midterm election coming up in about seven months. And I've seen this ever since the beginning of DU. The mid terms get dismissed as if they barely mattered, as if they were something like electing a prom queen (with all due respect to prom queens and kings everywhere). But the mid terms are hugely important, and the fact that too many Democrats seem to think they hardly matter is at the root of our problem as a political party. That and the willingness to let very old politicians stay in office forever, to not make any attempt to groom younger people for political positions. As I stated above, the reason Republicans have done so well in recent elections is that they've groomed a younger generation. We haven't. That's a huge mistake.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

133. PoindexterOglethorpe,

The only "sanity" issue I see is the people who click into a thread with the terms "President" and "2020" in the title and then complain they don't want to talk about the campaigns for president in 2020.

How about if you talk about the midterms in a thread with the terms "midterms" and "2018" in the title. That seems like a sane choice to make.

If one does not already exist, you have enough posts that you should be eligible to start whatever discussion it is that you want. That will reduce the distractions from the intent of threads like this.

[WiffenPoof]

101. He's got my vote...

I have been a supporter oh Joe Biden for president for s long time now. For me, Biden is something special and the right person at the right time.

[Gothmog]

102. This makes me happy

I have always liked Joe.

My son and I have saved two of the "Joe" signs that were used at the National convention. I let the party auction off one Joe "pole" sign at a fundraiser but kept my sign.

I would love to see Joe run

[Chipper Chat]

103. why is it that other countries revere their elders

But America kicks them into oblivion? Many wise men and women over 80 have been great leaders. Ghandi, adenour, dali lama, please ad to list.

[Progressive2020]

105. Elders

I think that the people you point out were more spiritual or cultural leaders. Age enhances wisdom. An American President must run the largest and most complex organization in the world- the U.S. Federal Government. This requires strong mind and body, and unfortunately, these things do tend to decline after a certain age.

I do not think that there is no place in our Society for our Political Elders. Jimmy Carter has done great work after leaving the Presidency, Clinton runs an important Foundation, etc. It is just that we require the person holding the Nuclear Codes to be of sound mind. Of course we now have a Narcissistic Imbecile in that position, so maybe there is an argument for putting an Elder in charge.

[Chipper Chat]

116. Well put.

[oasis]

106. Biden/Becerra for 2020.

[ucrdem]

109. Now that's a ticket with mojojavi!

Go Joe !

[Sugarcoated]

110. My 2 cents to add...

I know quite a few Philly blue collar Democrats and moderates who refused to vote for Hillary. Of course they despised the Traitor, hate him even more now and wished Joe ran. I am certain they would be excited to vote for Biden in the next election. Of course, he's a home state boy, but he knows the heart of a blue collar voter, speaks our language, especially in rust belt states. Shit, I know moderate Republicans who hate Trump and would be glad to vote for Joe.

[RealityChik]

113. I WAS pro-Joe until...

He told millennials to get over themselves. Nothing like pissing off a whole generation of voters, Joe! What were you thinkin'?

I am a boomer, but, c'mon! Millennials are the political future of our country so we need to include them in the political process NOW. Issues they care about and issues that critically impact them are being trivialized and/or ignored by "the old guard" of Biden, Pelosi, Schumer et al.

If millennials stay home on Election Day in November 2020, it won't matter who our candidate is. We will lose and the Repubs win again by default because the Dems managed to alienate all the voters who would otherwise lead them to the victory we ALL need so desperately.

[quickesst]

114. K&R!!!

I will definitely support him. Oh yeah, and fuck ageism.

[EffieBlack]

117. For me, it's not the age, but the hypocrisy

After being nearly smothered under all of the reasons that Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein have been around too long, are old hat, are too “Estalishment,” too tied to money,” and should “step aside” for newer fresher faces, I’m puzzled to see that not only are some DUers madly in love with non-spring-chicken-either Joe Biden, but all of the “negatives” used to try to push these women out of the scene are being pointed to as attributes that qualify him to take center stage.

And let’s not even get in to the fact that he has many of the same positions that caused progressives to absolutely trash Hillary as not worthy - Iraq, the Crime Bill (which Hillary didn’t vote for, but Biden WROTE), not to mention allowing Anita Hill to be eviscerated, letting Clarence Thomas get confirmed to a lifetime seat, and aligning with segregationists to undermine integration. I don’t think any of these disqualify him, but I do question why Joe is being held to a different standard than Hillary, Nancy and Dianne.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

136. EffieBlack,

It wasn't "some Duers" who started this thread, it was me. You won't hear me attacking Hillary, Nancy Pelosi, or Dianne Feinstein due to their age.

In 2016 I voted for Bernie Sanders in the Primary and then for Hillary in the General election.

I never had any doubt that Hillary was more qualified. I just felt that I agreed with the positions I have heard Bernie articulate over the decades I have listened to him speak out more than I agreed with Hillary's positions. Universal health insurance is an idea I strongly support. Bernie has argued for it for many, many years. He did not have to be persuaded to change his mind to support it.

My position regarding Joe Biden in particular is because of the catastrophe that will be left behind when TraitorTrump finally is gone, America will need someone with a great deal of experience to do damage control.

I don't know of any of the committed, or potential, candidates who I believe have the level of experience that Joe Biden has to do the job.

I get the feeling many DUers are thinking of putting "Party" ahead of "country" when they are willing to pass on Joe Biden for a "newer" or "younger" un-named person who does not have the "experience" he has.

Perhaps I am missing someone who is going to run, or at least likely to, who could do the repair I feel Joe Biden will be able to do.


If anyone can persuade me that a "newer" or "younger" person is right for the job, I am all ears.

[EffieBlack]

138. I hear what you're saying and am glad you're not engaging n the hypocrisy

I’m not addressing you directly, but the pattern all to obvious on DU, in the media and among some voters, which yo have surely seen yourself.

I don’t have any problem at all with Biden’s age or “establishment” creds. I like seasoned leaders and think the notion that we need new blood for new blood’s sake is shallow, short-sighted thinking. And I love Biden for many reasons. I’ve worked with hm and respect him. But I also have a serious problem with some things in his record, including how he handled the Thomas hearings (and not just the Anita Hill portion - his performance there was problematic before the sexual harassment issues came up) and his eagerness to join with segregationists to scuttle desegregation efforts in Delaware. He’s never addressed those concerns and many people aren’t going to give him a pass on them - nor does he deserve one.

I also think the Republicans will gave a field day with him. Maybe he’s up to it, maybe he’s not. We’ll see.

But I am dismayed by the double standard many Democrats are applying here. Now, if it’s a simple matter of people realizing they were wrong in the way they used Hillary’s age, experience and relationships against her and are willing to assess candidates differently moving forward, that’s fine. But if they’re waiving these concerns for Biden - which commonly happens for white men because, you know, we’re in trouble and can’t afford the luxury of “experimenting” with all of that diversity stuff right now because we just need the best - but then will whip them out again to use hurdles for future female and minority candidates in the future, I cry foul.

And, so far, I have yet to see anyone who uses age and experience against Clinton, Pelosi and Feinstein but now just looove Biden, explain their inconsistency. So, I’ll keep holding their feet to the fire until they do,

[S.E. TN Liberal]

139. Perhaps my thread is not the place to get all the DUers to apologize to Hillary? nm

[EffieBlack]

145. That's not what I'm doing

But if you post a thread about Joe Biden running, you’re inviting comments about Joe Biden running. If you don’t like what I have to say about the topic, you’re certainly free to ignore my comments.

[betsuni]

172. Seriously. Hillary's responsible for the Iraq War and laws she didn't even vote for,

her intentions are always nefarious, and the same people who say these things let Joe completely off the hook. And Joe said, "You didn't hear a single solitary sentence in the last campaign about that guy working on the assembly line making sixty thousand bucks a year and a wife making $30,000 as a hostess in a restaurant," about which Hillary says, "I find this fairly remarkable, considering that Joe himself campaigned for me all over the Midwest and talked plenty about the middle class."

[betsuni]

174. The Clinton administration tried to pass universal health care reform in 1993-4.

Hillary was in charge of it. Why do you say she would have to be persuaded to change her mind about it. That doesn't make sense.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

175. betsuni,

During the 2016 primaries she did not support universal health insurance. Bernie did. He was getting a lot of support on that issue.

She realized she was on the wrong side and changed her position during the campaign in support of it.

Many Democrats write off universal health insurance because they know the conservatives will always oppose it.

So rather than keep fighting for it they roll over and give in.

[betsuni]

176. Hillary's plan was to improve the ACA and add a public option as a way to get universal coverage.

Later Bernie also adopted this approach as being more efficient than starting over to get to single payer.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

178. betsuni,

Yes, Hillary's plan was to keep going with, and improving, Obamacare. She later came around to supporting universal health insurance as an option.


Bernie has supported universal heath insurance for decades, as he did through-out the primaries.

[betsuni]

180. "We recently shared a smile and a sigh when we heard Bernie called for improving

the Affordable Care Act immediately by embracing the approach that I proposed as a candidate: a public option in fifty states and lowering the Medicare age to fifty-five." From "What Happened." Looks like Bernie was the one to come around.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

182. betsuni,

Early in the 2016 Democratic primaries Hillary did not support Universal Health Insurance over the ACA.

She wanted to keep the ACA and see it improved. That is part of the reason so many "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" Democrats view her as a middle of the road corporatist. The ACA, while it does help many get insured, does not, and never will, provide health insurance all Americans. It is a huge give-away to health insurance companies.

Bernie actually supported, and has supported for decades, having Universal Health Insurance for all Americans.

That he would agree with an option that improves the ACA does not mean he would prefer the ACA over Universal Health insurance.

[betsuni]

198. Insurance is a huge give-away to health insurance companies but Bernie has supported universal

health insurance for all Americans for decades.



"Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"

Corporatist

[radical noodle]

137. Amen to that Effie!

You said it so much better than I could have.

[quickesst]

155. I hope you understand...

... That when I give an opinion, it is mine alone. I have never, and I never will claim that I speak for anyone but myself. As far as Hillary Clinton goes, I have always held her as high on a pedestal as one possibly can. I don't believe she will make another run for the presidency, but there is a possibility that Joe Biden will, and speaking for myself, I believe Joe Biden is 10 steps above any others on the viability scale. If someone believes that I hold Joe to a different or higher standard than I do Hillary, then my post history would have reflected that during the run-up to the Democratic primaries. It does not. What it does do, is show that I have always been 100% behind Hillary Clinton. I would be again if she chose to run. I want Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein to stay where they're at because I believe they are the right people for those positions. I don't believe Hillary will run again, so my support will go to whoever I believe to be the most qualified person to lead this country. That person, if he chooses to run, will be Joe Biden.
That is the problem with broad blanket statements. I don't believe one would live long enough 2 ask every individual's opinion as to what standard they hold other individuals to.

[BannonsLiver]

122. +1

And fuck some of the made up and revisionist bullshit I’ve read in this thread.

[quickesst]

150. agreed

When Joe Biden speaks, he speaks with a confidence and clarity that other possible candidates simply cannot match. The Democratic party does have a spine, and it resides in Joe Biden.

[Oneironaut]

121. I like Joe, but he's far from an ideal candidate.

The enthusiasm level we would bring to the Democratic party would probably be somewhere close to "watching paint dry," but I would definitely support him if we have nobody else. Of course, if we have nobody else, then we're in big trouble anyways.

To be honest, though, he might be a little too old from a health standpoint. Being President takes a toll on the President's body. I'm convinced there's a high chance Trump could die of natural causes in a year or two. I wouldn't want to put Joe through that stress and then have him die in office, as he would be in his mid-80's by the time he was done with his term.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

158. Obviously, we'd support Joe if he wins the nomination... and he could probably win given

what folks now know bout the Nazi-in-Chief's true agenda to enrich himself and all his millionaire/billionaire friends.

[BannonsLiver]

125. I'll give Joe a serious look if he runs

His age, gender or skin color won’t have any impact on my decision.

[mainstreetonce]

126. Go Joe

Decency returns to the WH.

[still_one]

128. Not necessarily my first choice, but a good solid Democrat who I have no doubt would restore the

Obama accomplishments that the asshole who n the WH is trying to erase, and I would be proud to vote for him

[Clarity2]

129. I'm good with that

As long as he gets someone relatively younger and healthy for his running mate. Someone with political experience, and someone who make a great president if anything happens.

[Atman]

141. That's unfortunate. We will lose again.

[mvd]

142. Running, sure

I think he could definitely add to the debate. But I am almost positive I would vote for someone else to be our nominee.

[Gothmog]

162. I love Joe Biden

Link to tweet

[Bradshaw3]

163. Someone younger and preferably female

[Hekate]

164. So who are you supporting for Congress THIS year? nt

[S.E. TN Liberal]

165. Hekate, That is a great topic for a thread about Congressional candidates in 2018.

Start the thread and I will be happy to let you know.

Hint; a Democrat.

[Mike Nelson]

179. I will vote for...

...Joe if he wins the primary. I agree he is currently "running" in 2020. I've watched him run before - and he never seemed to catch fire... he doesn't do well in the primary process... but, maybe the stature of having been VP will help?

[S.E. TN Liberal]

181. Mike Nelson,

His time spent as VP, plus all his other experience, makes him a great choice to step in and clean up the TraitorTrump dump our country will be by January 2021.

I have always thought of him as boring when he campaigns. Like many Democrats he tends to stick with the facts and the information that supports those facts.

[Mike Nelson]

183. True...

...I do think it's impossible to predict, this far out... it seems like being new helps. People liked Hillary, Trump and Bernie - although they were not exceptionally young, they were "new" in different ways. So, maybe the next cycle will favor boring reliable qualities like tradition, experience and dependability... it does sometimes cycle that way...

[lark]

201. Joe and Joe.

Joe Biden and Joe Kennedy would be a great team. I wanted Warren or Harris to run before they took part in the Franken BS, but not more.

[themaguffin]

202. At this time, I agree that would be a special candidate

He's sharp on policy and well seasoned.

We need a great, experienced person in 2020 and he could do it.

[Gothmog]

204. Biden Rage May Lead to Fight With Trump in 2020 Race

I would love to see Biden take on trump https://www.politicususa.com/2018/05/14/biden-rage-may-lead-to-fight-with-trump-in-2020-race.html

Joe Biden is spoiling for a fight, and the opponent he wants to face is none other than Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America.

Biden is outraged at Trump’s behavior on every level, and the former Vice President is not the kind of man who hides his emotions very well.

After a White House aid last week made a comment about John McCain saying “he’s dying anyway”, the 75-year-old Democrat appeared shocked and gave his opinion that decency in the administration had finally hit “rock bottom”.

“People have wondered when decency would hit rock bottom with this administration. It happened yesterday. … Given this White House’s trail of disrespect towards John and others, this staffer is not the exception to the rule, she is the epitome of it,” Biden said in a statement.

Link to tweet

[onecent]

210. Yes,I'll for for Joe Biden.

[luc mont]

215. Biden-Castro 2020

Joe and Joaquin. Hell yeah!