Dear White People: Don't assume a non-white person needs or wants your help

[oberliner]

Don't assume that a non-white person is not capable of handling themselves in a difficult situation and needs the assistance of a "white bystander" in order to deal with obnoxious, right-wing, and racist people.

If you see a situation where someone is asking for your help, by all means do so; when assistance is needed or requested, offer assistance, when a person is unable to deal with a threatening situation on their own, step in and help them.

But if a non-white person (or group of non-white people) is dealing with the situation effectively and the obnoxious, right-wing, racist person is backing down or walking away, then your "assistance" is likely not needed or wanted.

Not every non-white person wants or needs the help of white people (read up on the "white savior complex" ) In fact, in some cases, it could be seen as insulting and demeaning and implies that they need your help to handle situations that they are quite capable of handling themselves.

[RKP5637]

1. It also happens with some handicapped people. People moving along without assistance

sometimes are not pleased when a bystander starts offering help when not needed.

[Tipperary]

2. Very true. And older folks too.

I learned this the hard way.

[sunRISEnow]

10. Daily, I work with people with disabilities.

I ask if help is wanted. Sometimes they say no. Often they say yes. When I get a no, I leave them to it, but a yes has me helping. Without asking, I would not be able to lend a hand, literally sometimes.

I do not know how to do better than that. But, standing back and doing nothing seems a bit cold and cowardly to me for fear of a little rejection.

[sunRISEnow]

3. I will stand with the oppressed until they tell me otherwise.

[cyclonefence]

24. I agree

It seems to me no one should assume that a black person can't say, "No, thanks--I've got this."

[sunRISEnow]

38. Right. Lol. Yes. Why not do instead of do nothing.

[The Polack MSgt]

4. WOW, 30 minutes FLAT. NT

[JustAnotherGen]

5. When it's all about oneself

Eh?

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. CRedit due though, burning desire to say SOMETHING, angry as HELL about what WAS said

has to think of something, comes up with THIS

Dear god can it get any more obvious. How many years?

[JustAnotherGen]

40. Eh

Effie should be flattered?

[Downtown Hound]

6. Thanks but,

I think I can judge for myself when a situation requires intervention or not.

[Cary]

7. I hear some tones of the plantation argument here

[Caliman73]

8. If this is in response to Effie's post, you missed the point.

Effie said, eloquently, that it was not about "helping" or "saving" people of color. It is about not remaining silent in the face of bigotry and White Privilege. People of color do not need saviors, but because the social system and application of law is so heavily skewed against people of color, sometimes it is necessary to have that support from White people so that people of color can navigate with a higher probability of success.

White people do need to check their motives and not assume that they need to "save the day" but the more people of every color, who stand up against the bigot, the more the bigot will understand that they have no support.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. ...

Thank you!

[George II]

20. One has to wonder why this wasn't addressed in Effie's OP.

[Caliman73]

23. I know your statement was likely rhetorical, but...

I assume that like minded posters want a space where their ideas are supported and "high fived" with "Good post" and "Yeah, that is true", rather than attempting to discuss a disagreement on a thread that is getting similar support, with a different position.

I don't start many threads for the reason that I have found that asking for reasoned discussion and insights make my posts sink to the bottom of the feed. People seem to want kudos not questions.

I think Effie's post was heartfelt and honest from her perspective, which is why it is resonating and why people would not want to dispute the information from inside the thread.

[smirkymonkey]

25. +1000

[Cary]

28. Seems to me like an interesting twist on gaslighting

Or perhaps not a twist at all?

On third thought, maybe not all that interesting.

[sunRISEnow]

39. That was a fun progression of thought.

I had a smile by the end of it all. Thanks.

[Cary]

41. Nothing fun about gaslighting

It's a subtle, aggressive, and malicious tactic. It's also insidious.

Yes arriving at this conclusion was a progression.

[sunRISEnow]

43. I wasn't talking about gas-lighting. I was talking about your progression of thought.

But ok. I agree, to an extent. Once seen, cannot be unseen. Once one understands the concept of gas-lighting, it is easy to see.... The more that see, the more ineffective gas-lighting becomes. I think that is where Democrats are sitting right now. The ones I listen to and are around me.

[NightWatcher]

9. So if I see the cops beating the shit out of someone, I should ask permission of the beatee before

I document on my cellphone camera?

I'm not racist, I'll help anyone getting fucked over regardless of their color thank you.

[NatBurner]

11. respectfully disagree

we need to present a united (colors of benetton) front
gotta isolate these assholes completely, no quarter
even the illusion of the majority's apathy gives them them strength

[uppityperson]

12. Who is advising any of that? Of taking over for anyone who is handling something well?

Is this in regards to this other du post? https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210624449

(clip)

When you see a white person display bigotry or hatred, don’t just stand there. SAY something. Even if you think the POC has it under control, don’t just stand there, SAY something. Of COURSE we have it under control. We’ve been dealing with this crap all of our lives. We almost always figure out how to handle it and then take care of our business and we manage to do it while having to assess in real time, on the fly, in public, in the middle of the situation exactly what to do and how to do it and then actually pull it off - like Rogers dancing as well as Astaire, but backwards and in high heels - while y’all stand there staring at us and supposedly send good thoughts our way that, for all we know, could just as easily be good thoughts you’re sending to our attacker since we can’t tell if YOU DON’T SAY ANYTHING!

Now, let’s be clear. By “say something,” I don’t mean jumping all up in it like you’re our Great White Hope. And I certainly don’t mean you should put yourself in harm’s way or turn this into a fight about you. But a word, a gesture - sometimes just physically stepping up and standing next to us can make a huge difference.

Because here’s the deal: we don’t need your help. But we do need your support. And we need your support then and there in that moment in time and it needs to be heard and seen, not just by us, but everyone there.

[George II]

18. Hah, I just asked the very same question down below. Great minds read between the lines well!!

[NCTraveler]

13. This is just strange. nt

[Squinch]

15. And its his second on the same weird

trying-to-divide topic in a couple of minutes. There must be a new initiative.

[salin]

19. Strange? Or starting to be a bit predictable?

it's almost like a mutation of 'whataboutism'. And yes, it's also strange.

[Docreed2003]

68. Pfft...

Go look at the Franken threads from a few months ago...you'll see some "strange" stuff from some posters!

[salin]

70. thx for the tip. While I read DU daily, there are periods in which

the read is a quick read of LBN, then GD for trends of stories, in the early hours and afterwork hours - and I miss alot reading this way. Have been reading more closely lately - but have missed a lot.

[Docreed2003]

72. No worries...:

I wish I was less addicted to DU than I am...

[Blue_Adept]

14. Yet we get posts of "why didn't the people in the background help" comments constantly.

What a conundrum.

[George II]

16. Does that have anything to do with this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210624449

??

[kwassa]

21. Dear oberliner: Don't attempt to speak for minorities if you are not one.

And don't speak for liberals either if you are not one, either.

Because you will not know what you are talking about.

Something to ponder.

[George II]

22. Bazinga! Thanks.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. THANK YOU finally FINALLY FINALLY

[tavernier]

60. Yeah but come on...

Even you have had fun with it.

[MontanaMama]

32. Well said.

+1

[phleshdef]

26. I don't care if they want my help or not. If I see or hear racism in my presence, I'm calling it out

[GulfCoast66]

27. Thanks, but no thanks...

When I see an injustice taking place against anyone I try to do the correct thing and get involved.

It’s a big part of being a liberal. Or at least to me.

[FSogol]

30. Same here. I can't help it, that's how I was raised.

When I see an injustice taking place against anyone I try to do the correct thing and get involved.

It’s a big part of being a liberal.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. What an odd sentiment to find on this board.

The savior complex is definitely a thing, but encouraging people to stand back unless someone is actively begging for help is just...bizarre to me.

[MontanaMama]

34. At the VERY least

I will stand as a witness if and only if I have asked if my help is needed and it is declined. It's easy to say, as a non-POC, "well it looks like no one needs my help here, I'll just mind my own business..." I stand with Effie on this topic.

[MineralMan]

35. Like clockwork...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. And I mean has there been a rash of stories where POC have objected to white people who call out

other white people during confrontations? I've seen plenty where they wish others had spoken up, so if this is also an issue I'd like to hear about it.

[gollygee]

37. Or maybe instead, don't sit by a be a bystander, silently condoning their horrible behavior

Not saying anything makes people think what they're doing is OK.

[Fullduplexxx]

42. Ok ...Wait ..what .. ?

Dear White People: If you see something, say something

Dear White People: Don't assume a non-white person needs or wants your help

[mucifer]

44. It's a discussion board people have different opinions so we discuss.

People who feel very strongly often start their own threads.

[KitSileya]

63. In the first instance it's a person of color talking.

In the second I believe the poster is white.

In other words, the Africa American woman asks white folks to speak up if they see racism and injustice, while the white man (?) says don't do anything unless expressly asked. I know who I'll listen to, and isn't it great for oberliner that we have, indeed, been asked by persons of color to intervene? He can now speak up against racism and other injustices with a clear conscience.

[MineralMan]

45. It's so kind of you to speak for people of color in this way.

You've whitesplained it very well, indeed.

[KG]

46. your concern is noted.

[RobinA]

47. Dear All People

Don’t tell me what to do in a situation, and don’t tell me what I think. I’ll do what I think is right and I already know what I think.

[el_bryanto]

48. Wait a moment . . . that's a philosophy that I can get behind. Do you have a newsletter? nt

[cwydro]

69. Thank you.

Lots of people here who love to lecture others.

No shortage of them.

[.99center]

49. Something stinks...

If we're going to remove post about throwing shit at people, let's try to stay consistent. What's the deal here, do you know a few mods?

[hlthe2b]

50. Admittedly, it takes a lot to make me speechless, but...

OMG.... This post did it.

Sort of like Ayn Rand view of altruism, eh?

[ck4829]

51. I assume any public bigot has a serious cognitive problem and act accordingly

Last edited Thu May 17, 2018, 05:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Because that is what I have seen every single time.

Week and a half ago, I encountered a horribly sexist man who was yelling at women and calling men “women in disguise” (That should be a red flag right there). He was also talking to people who weren’t there and was clearly saying whatever thought popped into his head. Symptoms of schizophrenia. I stepped in, made sure he was as calm as possible, he was focused on ME, not on anyone else. He left without any more incidents.

This attorney who yelled at those employees for speaking Spanish and is now known to have yelled at people unprovoked in other situations? It’s clearly poor impulse control and inability to manage his emotions... something you would see with anti-social personality disorder.

I think you, we, should step in - The person being accosted may not know what they are dealing with and the whole thing about bizarre, unpredictable, and erratic behaviors adds a wrinkle to this we can not ignore. And racism, sexism, religious bigotry are bizarre ideas reflecting a damaged mind or psyche. When professionals deal with individuals like this, they never send in one person at a time, there is no reason why non-white people should deal with these individuals alone.

It’s an issue of public health to be frank.

[wasupaloopa]

52. I play it by ear. There is no way to read someone's Mind.

You could step in and be wrong. You could step in and be right.


The opposite is also true.

So this education of white people will most likely be ignored.

[brer cat]

53. If I see a white person making an ass of himself while

whitesplaining, would it be insulting and demeaning to point that out?

[sheshe2]

54. +++

[Empowerer]

65. I notice the OP dropped this turd in the punch bowl then scampered away

And, considering how badly they got dragged, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re just hoping this little nugget just sinks out of sight.

[sheshe2]

55. ...

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

56. Generally, it is better to offer help than to not offer help

in any sort of situation. Yeah, sometimes people get insulted by the offer, but most people consider offering help a kind jesture, regardless of whether or not they actually need any.

[bettyellen]

57. This is so twisted and gross. I can't even.

[NutmegYankee]

58. Fuck this noise.

If I want to chew out a racist trumper humper, I’m going to do it.

[MrScorpio]

59. You know, the world would be a whole lot better...

If white people were the first to call other whites on their racist bullshit, instead of waiting for a person of color to step up to the front line.

Racism in America is singularly white supremacy, where only whites receive unearned and unsolicited privileges simply for being white. Unfortunately, if whites see the problem before themselves and say absolutely nothing about the problem as it's happening, that silence is nothing more than tacit consent.

White people automatically benefit from whatever and whenever racism occurs, even if they are not active participants.

We must never forget that white supremacy in America is primarily a problem of white people, by white people and for white people. It's not as if people of color in this country have any control over it whatsoever, because racism doesn't serve us now, nor has it ever served us. If that were actually the case, it would have been abolished by us a long, long time ago.

We need white people to be allies against white supremacy, not spectators. If you see a problem, address the problem, right then and right there. I'm absolutely certain that the very people for whom the problem is targeting won't mind at all.

[brer cat]

71. Why is this so hard for some white people to understand?

It is on us to step up and say something. Further, we are not going to be arrested or shot for doing so.

[Bettie]

61. Assume? No Ask? Yes

I don't care who it is, if someone appears to be in distress, I ask if they need help.

Sometimes they say no and I leave it be. When they say yes, I help to the best of my ability.

[Empowerer]

62. This thread didn't really work out like you'd hoped, did it?

[tonedevil]

66. The cowardly...

hit and run kinda says that don't it?

[LuckyCharms]

64. Since when is a person's race a determining factor on whether you help them or not?

If someone is getting harassed, and it is safe to do so, you should offer assistance...human to human.

[wonkwest]

67. Support doesn't necessitate stealing someone's agency

I posted an anecdote earlier today, but I'll C&P it here.

A few days ago, I was walking along at night through a sketchy neighborhood - a lot of drug users and mentally ill. A small young woman came up to me and just started hollering and screaming in that incoherent way you sometimes encounter. I did that whole polite muttering, half smile while never breaking your stride sort of thing. She started following. I was easily twice the size of her and didn't feel any kind of personal danger. But you still feel vulnerable when your personal barrier is punctured out of the blue like that. As I strode up to a crosswalk, a young black man came up, stood just over my shoulder, and calmly said to the woman, "You need to get going." Well, suddenly we were two, and she didn't feel so emboldened anymore. She slunk off.

Several things here that are salient to what you're saying.

The situation was clearly on me to make a choice. My choice was to ignore the woman. Had it escalated, the choice was mine on how to react. The man who approached neither attempted to take control nor make any choices for me. What he did do is let both me and the woman know that she was now dealing with two of us. He wasn't saving me in any way - he clearly knew I didn't particularly need saving. He was simply supporting me against harassment.

Whenever I encounter a situation where someone is being harassed or bullied or just in distress in some way, I fall back on an incredibly useful stock phrase: "Is everything ok?" said in a light, friendly manner with an open expression while making eye contact with who I feel is being harassed or bullied.

You're making your presence known, you're not being overtly hostile or overtly taking a side, and you're not taking control of the situation away from the person who's being subjected to the harassment. They can choose, "Everything's fine," signalling that they have it handled, or they can reply, "No, X is happening," in which they're inviting further input or assistance from you.

And the best thing about that approach is you can use it for anyone in just about any circumstance. Not just when you see a racial incident. Maybe a guy is pestering a woman who clearly doesn't welcome it. Some people are uncomfortable asking a disabled person if they need help. "Is everything ok?" No judgement, no assuming they can't care for themselves. If they need help, they get help. If they don't, they keep their dignity just fine.

"Is everything ok?" is universal code for, "I'm here if you need me." It's weird how many people don't know this stuff so far into adulthood. It's Basic Decent Human Interaction 101.

[MountCleaners]

73. Give me a break, I'm a human being

And dehumanizing, disrespectful behavior pisses me off, and I'm going to say so. It hurts MY feelings and it hurts people I care about. I'm an empathic being and can't imagine letting a slight or discriminatory treatment go. It's on all of us to work to create a society where we are more respectful. Not only that, but we live in a republic, and it's your civic duty to ensure that everyone is treated equally. Part of that is not laying the entire burden on one population.

[Raine]

74. Well OK

thanks for that information I'll be sure to put it to good use.