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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSolly Mack
(90,762 posts)G_j
(40,366 posts)You were correct that it would happen.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)It's speaking of America's attitude about the war crimes committed by the U.S. government. Give a narrative the people can live with, one that somehow makes it all seem OK - even if not perfect - and people will breathe a sigh of relief and move on to the comforting halcyon remembrances of the past, happily forgetting that the past is prologue until a time comes when people once again find themselves asking - Gee, how did we get here?
Well, duh.
G_j
(40,366 posts)to wash our bloody hands, revamp the narrative and move on.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)under Shrub...not to mention the war crimes.
Short memories, that and the active desire to forget (for whatever reason), are dangers to democracy. The willingness to forget coupled with the inclination to see the past through a more flattering filter is a deadly combination. It dismisses the damage done to people and
our institutions, and allows people to pretend that, somehow - even with no corrective action taken (like prosecutions, a full telling of events, accountability) - all is now better.
Constant drops of water on a stone, eroding away the stone, and no one thinks to turn the water off. They merely adjust to the new shape of the stone and call it good.
G_j
(40,366 posts)How did the we get here?
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)But then they forget all the bad that came from the Bush administration. (patriot act, torture, wars of aggression, rounding up & detention of Americans because they were Muslims, lot of deaths, his cabinet picks didn't exactly make the world better, etc..)
For me, it isn't a case of which one is worst. I see them both as symptoms.
It's overwhelmingly true that Trump's corruption is more out of control and his ignorance is dangerous.
But that isn't to say that Bush didn't favor his cronies. He did.
Trump would torture and not cloak it in language people would "debate" - and in that manufactured debate pretend it's a matter of opinion, making it easier to view it as an intellectual exercise of opposing opinions and not what it was/is - the actual torturing of people. The cruel, abusive treatment of another human - all the while the thumping of chests goes on about how "no one is above the law" and "we are the human rights" people, and "we're the good guys".
Trump's approach strips away much of those filters, though people will still hide behind them,
Trump's heavy hand is akin to blunt force trauma, while Bush was more practiced - more likely to build a self-serving fiction around his actions.
Trump lies - straight out lies - acts of commission. Bush was deception through paltering, as well as lies of commission and omission.
Bush was easier to digest on a day to day basis than Trump is...but that isn't really saying much. Not for me, anyway. Bush made me sick every day he was in office - and he still does.
The hits kept coming under Bush - but Trump wields a sledge hammer.
The GOP base was bad but not as devoted to Bush as they are to Trump. That's very bad. Worse.
The GOP is now what it has been becoming for years (and Bush aided that becoming, as did his father, Reagan, Nixon) - we saw it happening - and a lot of people behaved in a manner that downplayed that becoming (respect the other side!). Their corruption, their greed, their willingness to use race as a campaign strategy, their attacks on the poor, on immigrants, on women, on POC, on the LGBT community, against science and education - treated as rhetoric instead of what it really was - the riling up of the very worst in people and turning them against our form of government. They were attacking our very democracy, our institutions. They were always attacking our government and our institutions.
People want to believe that if the bad people are out of office that the bad has stopped - but bad laws made by bad leaders all too often remain in place. Bad policy - the same. Criminal decisions are still impacting people's lives.
And the ideas behind their actions - the lies, the falsehoods, the utter garbage - are still believed. Are still accepted as truth.
Look at Haspel - how people spoke in terms of hindsight during her hearing and how, now that America no longer allows torture, etc..
But the facts are America outlawed torture long before Bush came to office and it was illegal the entire time he was in office - to include waterboarding. Haspel knew it was illegal. She lied any time she called it "technically legal".
Calling torture by another name doesn't make it any less torture.
But, by splitting that hair, it not only gave the guilty a way out - it gave America and Americans a way out - of accountability. It made it easier to forget - easier to push it to the back of the mind. And, apparently, it wipes the slate clean for some - because they're still asking "How did we get here?".
Sorry for being so long winded.
G_j
(40,366 posts)Bush once cloaked torture and cruelty in language designed to sound civilized. Today the pretenses are disappearing. Hatred and cruelty are now brazenly displayed as American values.
Spiraling down into the abyss
msongs
(67,395 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,584 posts)more to promote their agenda. That is a match made in Hell.
spanone
(135,823 posts)ADX
(1,622 posts)...Haspel is an excellent choice for Director of the CIA.
Congratulations to her for being the first woman to hold that position; going forward, I wish her well in her endeavors.
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)but it's odd that Malcom Nance and every other CIA, FBI and National Security person who always appear on MSNB supported her. They have all said that she WILL speak truth to power (trump). For this reason I have been torn.
FWIW ...
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)the bipartisan senate security consensus: war crimes are ok if you're scared.
Nanjeanne
(4,950 posts)morally object to torture.
So - thanks for nothing Indiana Sen. Joe Donnelly, North Dakota Sen. Heidi Heitkamp, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, New Hampshire Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, and Virginia Sen. Mark Warner. If you think this confirmation vote is your ticket to reelection - you are living in a delusional world.
Exotica
(1,461 posts)Last edited Fri May 18, 2018, 10:48 AM - Edit history (1)
Sen. Jeff Flake R-Az. and Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., voted against Haspel. McCain didn't vote. Even if McCain had voted yes, they were still only at 49 votes for approval.
Disgusting IMHO. As I have said in the past, those 6 voting for her gained no votes, in terms of re-election. I have heard arguments that it removes a possible campaign issue for them, but ffs, if you cannot answer back "National security does NOT equate to voting for one of the principal architects and overseers of the torture programme, plus that very same person ordered the destruction of its evidence.", then I do not know what to say.
Nanjeanne
(4,950 posts)Just don't understand how being against torture is a difficult position to take.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)She would not have been approved otherwise. Fuck them. I get (although I think it's pointless because voters don't really care) why Manchin and Heitkamp are trying to suck up to Trump voters (you will lose anyway, you idiots), but what is Warner's problem? Is he onw of those Dems who is trying to prove he is "tough on terror"? Just who is he pandering to? The government contract/ secret state workers that live in Virginia and work in DC?
I have no idea, but I am furious. This is a betrayal and more evidence (as if more was needed) that some members of the Democratic Party lack spines and morality.
I am pleased that Jones and McCaskill voted against her.
melman
(7,681 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)while the same 'wypipo' nonsense is endlessly hashed over day after day. But such is the state of DU these days.
dalton99a
(81,451 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Disgusting news to read this day.
Unbelievable.