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Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
Fri May 18, 2018, 05:03 PM May 2018

Words are tools and sometimes a weapon.

And sometimes words are a shield.

All too often words are used as a weapon intended to cause harm - and sometimes - words are used as a defensive shield against those who use words to cause harm.

A counter, if you will. A way of taking the sting out of an attack.

The N-word being a prime example of a word used as a weapon.

A vicious word loaded with hate and violence. It's intended to dehumanize; a means to attack and destroy. A word that carries with it a history of abuse and oppression - of lynchings and rapes - of discrimination and enslavement.

But also a word that has been utilized as a shield. By using the word not as an attack and instead adopting it as a means of expressing the rejection of the word as used by racists, the word has become a symbol of perseverance and defiance against the oppressor.

The sting is removed - to a point.

White people need never think they are included in the expression of defiance. You're simply not part of that club - and never will be.

Much like my women friends can call me a b-word - but no man is allowed to be part of that club. It ain't happening. Men don't get a pass. I don't care how much of a feminist a man is or how much he supports equality - No. Still not a member of the club.

The same applies to hate-driven slurs some straight people use to attack the LGBT community. How a community expresses itself about itself is one thing - that isn't an invitation for bigots to join in.


Within any given minority community, words of hate can take on a whole new context - a meaning in defiance of the haters.

A "Fuck you", if you will, to the oppressors.

A way to take the sting out of the years discrimination and attacks. Of the day to day experiences of bigotry and prejudice.



Growing up in the South, and living outside the South as well, I've come across white people who make claims such as:

- Even white people can be the N-word. In an attempt to explain how their use of the word isn't racist. Claiming it simply means a sorry person. A criminal. Trash.

My response is always -

Oh, yeah? Picture an African-American man walking down the street and a white man carrying a bag while he hurries up the street, both passing your home at roughly the same time, when you hear someone yell, "That N-word just robbed me". Who are you going to look at first?

Spare me. That person sees one thing only when they hear that word - and it ain't the white guy.

- Then there are those who want to explain how there are black people and then there are N-word. And these people tell themselves they aren't racist because they don't think all black people are the N-word. Only the "bad ones" - you know, the black people who don't know their place.

In both cases, there exist a whole lot of denial (and ignorance).




Now let's say that particular thinking gets turned around. Let's say, born out of the frustration, the hurt, and the anger of having to constantly deal with racism, bigoted stereotypes, and the ever present denial of the dominant white society about the impact of racism on day to day life for people of color - words and concepts meant to cause harm are now used as a shield. Imagine taking that soul-crushing ignorance heaped on you by this dominant white society and injecting a little humor and a bit of the turn-around.

Now you have wypipo.

You can take the word as an insult, as an attack. If you want...

Or

You can see the point of it. You can look beyond your own hurt feelings and defensiveness to understand the why of it.


Victims of racism fighting back by taking the exact same words and concepts that racists use as a weapon against them, and they turn those words and concepts around and use them as a shield. A shield against racism.

You can't claim to understand (or abhor) the impact of a dominant white (or male and straight, for that matter) society on minorities then get all outraged to discover that the victims of that dominance fight back with humor, with creativity - turning the hate directed at them into a shield against that same hate.
























31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Words are tools and sometimes a weapon. (Original Post) Solly Mack May 2018 OP
people are working hard to overlook the humor and creativity in their need to shut down- or bettyellen May 2018 #1
They react to what they see as a stereotype of what it is to be white Solly Mack May 2018 #3
And they are often horrified to learn that we sometimes look at them with bemusement and a chuckle EffieBlack May 2018 #6
Oh, yeah. Solly Mack May 2018 #8
This resonated with me so much, thank you Solly. bettyellen May 2018 #10
Thank you, betty Solly Mack May 2018 #11
I hadn't considered that aspect of it. Well look at us having some deep discussion about the concept bettyellen May 2018 #12
+1 gollygee May 2018 #16
I am in awe EffieBlack May 2018 #2
Thank you. Solly Mack May 2018 #4
Well you thought pretty well - and then knocked it out of the park EffieBlack May 2018 #5
Ourstanding brer cat May 2018 #7
Thanks, brer cat Solly Mack May 2018 #9
Well said. K&R. WhiskeyGrinder May 2018 #13
Thank you. Solly Mack May 2018 #14
I understand where you're coming from, meadowlander May 2018 #15
It's a term that turns the tables on racist stereotyping of African-Americans. Solly Mack May 2018 #18
But my point is that it doesn't get people to stop and think, it gets them to viscerally react meadowlander May 2018 #22
Ever had a rotten boss? or teacher? Truly rotten? Solly Mack May 2018 #24
K&R gollygee May 2018 #17
Thanks, gollygee. Solly Mack May 2018 #21
Words As Weapons kydo May 2018 #19
Alas, I have nothing beautiful to say. Solly Mack May 2018 #20
First, I have no particular response to the term wypipo Ms. Toad May 2018 #23
I explained that. Wypipo need not have been used against POC for the point to stand. Solly Mack May 2018 #25
Literally, the first 2/3 of your post made that suggestion. Ms. Toad May 2018 #27
Yes - it was more than one part in my OP - that is true. Solly Mack May 2018 #29
It's a racially motivated internet meme... TeeYiYi May 2018 #26
I kiss my dogs in the face. Let them lick my tongue and everything. Solly Mack May 2018 #28
Ew... TeeYiYi May 2018 #30
I adore my fur-babies. They get their teeth cleaned regularly and I also clean their tongues. Solly Mack May 2018 #31
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
1. people are working hard to overlook the humor and creativity in their need to shut down- or
Fri May 18, 2018, 05:10 PM
May 2018

at least exert control over the conversation. Remember we heard the same shit about “privilege” here... and serious conversations were derided. Now that they’re humorous- their demonized as hateful. That’s some twisted bullshit right there.

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
3. They react to what they see as a stereotype of what it is to be white
Fri May 18, 2018, 05:20 PM
May 2018

without once considering where it is coming from.

From a people who have been maligned and stereotyped from the moment they set foot in this country. Even before - as slaves, considered property, not even seen as human.

Members of the dominant power structure are often alarmed to learn that the victims of racism (sexism/homophobia) don't exactly sit around worrying about how to impress their oppressors.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
6. And they are often horrified to learn that we sometimes look at them with bemusement and a chuckle
Fri May 18, 2018, 05:33 PM
May 2018

rather than awe and fear a-trembling.

They don’t like knowing that sometimes we just shake our heads and say, “Bless her little heart.”

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
8. Oh, yeah.
Fri May 18, 2018, 06:02 PM
May 2018

The whole if you can be defiant, how can you be oppressed?

If you're not weeping, how can you be harmed?

I go through life with white skin and privilege even though I come from a multi-ethnic, multi-racial family. People say things to me they wouldn't have said if they really knew me.

By taking the racist words and concepts and making them your own/turning them around, you take the power of the words and concepts away.

I've had a white person tell me that by not being able to say the N-word, they lost power.

I was flummoxed - totally thrown. I felt sorry for that person...not because I felt a kinship in thought but because to define power by something so horrible simply didn't make sense to me. It's tragic. Senseless. It's the way a bully thinks.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
12. I hadn't considered that aspect of it. Well look at us having some deep discussion about the concept
Fri May 18, 2018, 06:30 PM
May 2018

I heard that was impossible and this discussion is just divisive. Yet I’m in agreement and also... learning more, understanding more. How awful of us!

meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
15. I understand where you're coming from,
Fri May 18, 2018, 07:06 PM
May 2018

but "wypipo" isn't a term of abuse against a minority group that has been appropriated for use as a shield as all of the other examples you have given are.

It is a neologism coined specifically to describe a type of behavior which is not exclusive to white people but which calls out white people as if they are the only ones engaging in it.

I understand the need for minority groups to have their own spaces and language to describe their experience and for them to reclaim power and agency by using ridicule.

I'm also not personally offended by the term wypipo. If people want to use it, that has no measurable impact on how I live my life. For me, the question though isn't "is it offensive" but "is it constructive"?

In my view, it contributes to the net crappiness of the world and doesn't move the dialogue forward. People who want to use it should consider the context, the audience and whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Because there is an actually quite important message "Stop panicking and being a dumbass every time you see someone with a different skin tone on the street" which is being derailed by framing that message with an inaccurately race-based slur which is the only thing that some white audiences will hear and which gives them a foothold for objection to that message that they would not otherwise have.

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
18. It's a term that turns the tables on racist stereotyping of African-Americans.
Fri May 18, 2018, 07:21 PM
May 2018

Racist white people, and even some other white people, hold racist stereotypes of African-Americans.

Wypipo turns the table on that.

So the examples used to define Wypipo are stereotypes...that's the point.

It's a way to mock what is happening to a person as people of color in a white dominated society.


So, yes, it is a concept that is now being used as a shield against racist concepts. (stereotyping and other racist ideas about African-Americans and other people of color)

What - some - white people are getting is a very tiny window into the way people of color deal with the racism directed at them - instead of being offended by it...try understanding where they are coming from.

You frame the word as an "inaccurately race-based slur " - letting me know you don't like the stereotypes used to define the word.

But the word/concept comes from all the stereotyping people of color deal with each and every day in America. It exposes how wrong those stereotypes are...and instead of thinking about all of that...some people are getting insulted.

Of course it doesn't have any measurable impact on your life - mine either - we are part of the dominant society.

Same can't be said of racist stereotypes about people of color.

It's not only constructive, it's effective - if it gets people to stop and think instead of reacting. Those reacting might want to ask themselves why.





meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
22. But my point is that it doesn't get people to stop and think, it gets them to viscerally react
Fri May 18, 2018, 07:47 PM
May 2018

in a negative way without absorbing any of the actual message. And generally the response isn't to self-examine the racist behavior - it's to get butthurt about how "mean" black people are too and to fuel all the "reverse racism" bullshit.

I don't think you'll find many people on DU who think that use of stereotypes is an appropriate way to relate to people of other races. So what is accomplished by "turning the tables" on people who already agree with you? As I said above, I do understand where it is coming from, I just don't agree that the specific response is constructive.

It's not that I feel that the stereotypes used to define "wypipo" describe me. It's that the behavior it describes is not an exclusively white behavior. So why bring whiteness in to it when what you really want to talk about is racial profiling or irrational fear of certain races regardless of the race of the person doing it?

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
24. Ever had a rotten boss? or teacher? Truly rotten?
Fri May 18, 2018, 08:32 PM
May 2018

And you talked about it with your co-workers, fellow students, who share the same experience?

You laugh, joke, talk amongst the group.

Now, if the person making everyone's life miserable heard what was said, they'd probably be pissed instead of looking at their own behavior.

I get that.

Doesn't change how miserable they make others.

Doesn't stop people from needing to talk about it.

You keep hearing turning the tables and characterizing it as an attack or so it seems to me - turning the tables means - “reverse one's position relative to someone else, especially by turning a position of disadvantage into one of advantage.” isn't going after those who might agree with me - it's exploring the full impact of racism against POC in America because you understand how it truly feels in a visceral way. Besides, if they truly agreed with me, they'd see that already.

People don't like being called wypipo - a very small taste of what POC go through each and every day. But instead of grokking onto that, they get mad and go all "Not me."



While I do think a lot of people on DU do find stereotyping others wrong, I also think there is too much of the "Not me" when it comes to trying to understand the impact racism has on the lives of POC. "Not me" because I'm not racist. "Not me" because I don't think that way. "Not me" because I'm on your side.

"Not me" so don't say things that might make me upset because I'm different.

Don't make me feel uncomfortable with how you express yourself with others who deal with the same thing because "Not me".

I'm a woman. I guarantee you that men would feel mighty uncomfortable around me when I'm on a tear about sexism in America. When I am expressing my hurt and my anger and the "Not me" comes flying out so quick that I know the men around me aren't even listening. They don't hear the pain, the issues, the problems - they only hear that I'm angry about sexism and as they are men, I must be attacking them.

People who get a glimpse into how POC talk about the racism they experience and go to the "Not me" or black people are mean or latch on to the reverse racism BS aren't listening to begin with and chances are, they never will.

What they want is for POC to hold their hands and tell them every so often that, of course, racism in America and white privilege in America has nothing to do with them, as white people who benefit from white privilege, at all.


















kydo

(2,679 posts)
19. Words As Weapons
Fri May 18, 2018, 07:27 PM
May 2018

K/R and some Seether



"Words As Weapons"
Seether

All I really want is something beautiful to say

Keep me locked up in your broken mind
I keep searching, never been able
To find a light behind your dead eyes
Not anything at all

You keep living in your own lie
Ever deceitful and ever unfaithful
Keep me guessing, keep me terrified
Take everything from my world

Say, "Can you help me?" right before the fall
Take what you can and leave me to the wolves

Keep me dumb, keep me paralyzed
Why try swimming? I'm drowning in fable
You're not that saint that you externalize
You're not anything at all

(All I really want is something beautiful to say)

It's all so playful when you demonize
To spit out the hateful, you're willing and able
Your words are weapons of the terrified
You're nothing in my world

Say, "Can you help me?" right before the fall
Take what you can and leave me to the wolves

All I really want is something beautiful to say
Keep me guessing, keep me terrified
All I really want is something beautiful to say
You keep living in your own lie

All I really want is something beautiful to say
To never fade away
I wanna live forever

All I really want is something beautiful to say
To never fade away
I wanna live forever

You keep living in your own lie
Keep me guessing, keep me terrified

All I really want is something beautiful to say

Say, "Can you help me?" right before the fall?
Take what you can and leave me to the wolves

All I really want is something beautiful to say
Words are weapons of the terrified
All I really want is something beautiful to say
Keep me guessing, keep me terrified

All I really want is something beautiful to say
To never fade away
I wanna live forever

All I really want is something beautiful to say
To never fade away
I wanna live forever

Ms. Toad

(33,999 posts)
23. First, I have no particular response to the term wypipo
Fri May 18, 2018, 08:06 PM
May 2018

Use it, don't use it. Fine by me.

As an LGBT person, I do have a problem with describing it as the same as reclaiming the F word, or the D word, the latter of which which has been used as a weapon against me

But wypipo has never been used as a weapon against blacks, so it can't be reclaimed by blacks because it was never used as a weapon against them.

A more apt analogy would be to LGBT individuals using "breeder" to describe certain heterosexuals - a term that some heterosexuals find similarly discomforting.

I choose not to use that term - at least not outside of the LGBT community - because I don't find it helps move conversations forward. But I wouldn't criticize an LGBT person who chose to use it. That said, it is quite different from reclaiming the F or D words - which is transforming swords into plowshares,. If it wasn't a sword in the first place, it can't be transformed into a plowshare.

(I don't recall that I have used "breeder" within the LGBT community, but I have expressed similar sentiments among my LGBT peers about certain individuals who were themselves unable to reproduce but who were blocking my marriage expressly because my spouse and I were unable to "naturally" reproduce; sentiments I would not make in "mixed" company.)

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
25. I explained that. Wypipo need not have been used against POC for the point to stand.
Fri May 18, 2018, 08:54 PM
May 2018

No one even made the suggestion. Nothing I've said made that suggestion.

The N-word and stereotypes used against POC show how Wypipo and the stereotypes used as examples to define wypipo show where it all comes together.

The whole thing with wypipo is wypipo v. white people. Like the example I used from racists who claim there are good black people then there are N-word. The concept of mockery for wypipo is built around that racist concept.

No one is transforming Wypipo into anything. Not even trying to transform it into anything - you understand how white people use the N-word?

You can understand the pain it causes, yes?

Then you can also understand how from that pain a word can be created not as a sword but as a shield.

The N-word is the sword. The stereotypes against POC are the swords.

Absolutely no different than how the F word and the D word, as well as stereotypes about the LGBT community, are used.

All used to demean. All used to harm. All used as a weapon.

The N-word has been reclaimed in the same manner as the F word and the D word.

Wypipo isn't a sword - it's a form of self-defense against all the racism experienced by POC to mock the oppressors. Something to laugh about and poke fun of racists. Yes, it uses stereotypes about white people that aren't true - as do all stereotypes about other people. That's kind of the point.

Kind of like you might joke with your LGBT peers about hate-filled straights. You'll speak a lot of harsh truths when that happens. And, yes, those truths might make all straights uncomfortable - but it doesn't change the fact of what you experience as part of the LGBT community. And it doesn't change the fact that even those straights who stand with you need to know just how bad it can be. And just because they are allies doesn't mean they are exempt from the ugly truth about the discrimination and hate the LGBT community experiences.













Ms. Toad

(33,999 posts)
27. Literally, the first 2/3 of your post made that suggestion.
Fri May 18, 2018, 10:25 PM
May 2018

Everything- prior to switching to talking about wypipo - was about reclaiming words that had been used as weapons - and how people against whom they had been used as weapons have the right to use them, and no one else does.

One of these things (wypipo) is not like the others (the N-word or the F/D words).

I'm not saying it's not a defense against racism. I am saying that inventing a word for your oppressor is very different than reclaiming words used as weapons used against you (which you spent the first 2/3 of your post forming an analogy about).

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
29. Yes - it was more than one part in my OP - that is true.
Fri May 18, 2018, 10:32 PM
May 2018

One part was talking about reclaiming words and one part showed an example of how white people have said to me that there are black and then there n-words. Good black v. bad black people.(knowing your place, etc..)

Which lead into wypipo. The part about wypipo followed that last example - for a reason.

I was talking about both - reclaiming words to take the sting out of them - and taking the concept of racial stereotypes used by your oppressor and turning it around them.

I am sorry if I wasn't more clear and which lead to any confusion about what I was saying.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
26. It's a racially motivated internet meme...
Fri May 18, 2018, 09:35 PM
May 2018

...It's a hashtag on Twitter.

Whatever the genesis of the word, "wypipo," it's evolved into the equivalent of every other offensive, culturally insensitive ethnic joke ever invented, based on negative stereotypes and shared with like-minded bigots for a quick laugh. It's the new "Polack" joke for 2018.

If ethnic jokes don't make you uncomfortable; if the idea of "beans falling through the grill" makes you chuckle, and the thought of "a Polish girl walking down the street with a talking pig under her arm," is your kind of humor, then the new #wypipo jokes should be right up your alley.

Culturally insensitive jokes have been around forever, and I've laughed at more than a few, but let's not pretend that #wypipo is not racially motivated; it is. And, in light of the recent uptick in white people calling the police on black people, I can appreciate the sentiment behind the evolution of the hashtag.

#wypipo has morphed into a catch-all for every kind of negative white stereotype imaginable, and I'm ok with that. It is what it is... Ethnic jokes are nothing new and white people are not immune. I don't necessarily approve, but I definitely understand; as long as we can all be honest about it. This has been a long time coming.

TYY

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
28. I kiss my dogs in the face. Let them lick my tongue and everything.
Fri May 18, 2018, 10:26 PM
May 2018

I have white skin. And, according to some of the definitions/examples of wypipo, I am wypipo. I'm not offended by the term.

I do get the anger behind it and that's why I'm not offended.

I also understand that as part of the dominant group in America, that being wypipo won't cause me to not get a job, to not get a raise, to not get the apartment or house. I won't be stopped for driving, walking, shopping or BBQing while being wypipo.

Can't say the same for POC.

White skin has its privileges.

Wypipo does not have the devastating history the N word has and 100 years from now it still won't.


It is true that people should strive to not be prejudiced against anyone and I believe in people, all people, getting up each day and working on themselves to shed any and all prejudices they harbor. You have to be ever mindful. I really do believe that.

What I will never agree with is that mocking those who would oppress you is the same as the damaged caused - through words and actions - by those doing the oppressing.

Mocking those who hate you helps.

I'm not on Twitter or Facebook.






















TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
30. Ew...
Fri May 18, 2018, 10:55 PM
May 2018

Other than letting your dogs lick your tongue, I think we're close to being on the same page. I could be wrong...

#Wypipo is an inside joke. It's an internet meme. It's a racially motivated hashtag! It's the 'Polack' joke from the 70s. I get it. It's evolving... and it's justified.

The rest...about 'n' words and all that, is superfluous.

TYY

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
31. I adore my fur-babies. They get their teeth cleaned regularly and I also clean their tongues.
Fri May 18, 2018, 11:07 PM
May 2018

Still, I can see how some people find it gross.

I wouldn't let their fur-babies kiss me that way. Truth is, I wouldn't let most people's non-fur babies kiss me on the mouth.



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