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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDNI Clapper says Russia swung the election. Understand that. It was rigged. They flipped votes.
He's not saying they played around with some voter registrations.
Why are we not shouting this from the rooftops? Clapper is not some fringe radio nut. He is the former DNI. This is not an educated guess. This is an informed opinion.
The orange dumb-ass is illegitimate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/05/24/james-clappers-bombshell-russia-swung-the-election-what-if-hes-right/?utm_term=.660d8f301c1a
spanone
(135,636 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)manor321
(3,344 posts)He's trying to sell books. He's expressing his opinion. He doesn't have evidence.
G_j
(40,366 posts)I wouldnt call that an opinion.
mythology
(9,527 posts)The entire thread should be deleted. It's embarrassing.
Clapper has made zero claims that votes were changed from what the voter intended.
Botany
(70,291 posts)Russia was into Wisconsin @ the county level
https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/01/23/russians-suspected-hacking-local-dems/96965824/
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A member of the Russian Duma bragged about it.
https://www.axios.com/russian-politician-says-on-live-tv-that-russia-stole-us-presidency-1513305421-105c4fa4-70e6-4fa4-98c9-eb90e35987ad.html
Russian politician Vyacheslav Nikonov, a member of the Duma, said U.S. "intelligence missed it when Russian intelligence stole the president of the United States." He made the remarks on a Russian panel show, "Sunday Evening with Vladimir Solovyov."
The episode centered on the U.S.' diminishing power on the world stage and the resulting chaos, The Hill reports. University of Virginia professor Allen Lynch told The Hill that Nikonov's statement was directed at the idea that the U.S. must be losing power if it can't uphold the integrity of its own electoral system.
Julia Davis, who monitors Russian media, first noted the comments on her Twitter account last night.
******
Russia was into voter d-bases and was working on the operating systems of the voting machines and
tabulators in 39 states
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections
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And that is above and beyond all the damning info there is already re: Russia/Trump team conspiracy. There were 75+ CONTACTS WITH RUSSIA-LINKED OPERATIVES that we know about. And there is already a great deal of evidence of conspiracy.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/22/1765918/-Rosenstein-is-Playing-Trump-Because-He-Knows-How-This-Will-End-Tuesday-s-Good-News
triron
(21,916 posts)Botany
(70,291 posts)Look @ the Wisconsin story.
brush
(53,475 posts)triron
(21,916 posts)I'm sure all they did was see if they could. (sarcasm)
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)If you figure those three states had about 5000 precincts each, then that's between 5 and 6 votes per precinct, meaning only about three votes per precinct would need to be flipped from HRC to dumbass.
alwaysinasnit
(5,037 posts)That would keep them within the margin of error in the exit polling, wouldn't it?
triron
(21,916 posts)alwaysinasnit
(5,037 posts)I must have missed this. Yet it doesn't seem like anyone followed up on this. Am I wrong?
bearsfootball516
(6,369 posts)But as far as actually going into voting machines and changing votes, there's no evidence of that, and he doesn't say anything like that.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I am at least hopeful that an electronic fingerprint would exist to indicate if the machines were hacked at the various precincts and counties.
bluestarone
(16,722 posts)Were ANY MACHINES checked??? I've not heard of any!!!! So how do we know for sure???
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)I didn't hear him say that either. Maybe they did flip votes, but I don't the he said it.
Botany
(70,291 posts)As a private citizen, its what I would call my informed opinion that, given the massive effort the Russians made, and the number of citizens that they touched, and the variety and multi-dimensional aspects of what they did to influence opinion
and given the fact that it turned on less than 80,000 votes in three states, to me it exceeds logic and credulity that they didnt affect the election. And its my belief they actually turned it.
Russia was into Wisconsin @ the county level.
https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/01/23/russians-suspected-hacking-local-dems/96965824/
JoeOtterbein
(7,698 posts)I will always believe PA was rigged!
Botany
(70,291 posts)And the idea that Russia accessed all those voter d-bases and didn't do anything with that
information is laughable.
Whiskeytide
(4,459 posts)... affected the decisions of voters at the polls. He did not say they electronically changed or flipped votes. He also didnt say that they didnt, but he is definitely not making that claim.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)trump or 3rd party candidate, those who sat out election, etc., over disappointment their guy didn't win primary hurt us. Comey cost us. Stupid people willing to accept lies hurt us. People who thought she had it and stayed home hurt us. Racism/bigotry hurt us. Democrats who don't usually vote and didn't again, cost us.
There is no evidence -- other than "it could have happened" -- that votes were flipped.
Personally, I think trying to make Russia the scapegoat is counterproductive.
NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)C Moon
(12,188 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)so they are snug as a bug, the corporate press is fine with it because they are making huge profits under KGOZP rule, and that leaves we the people who no longer have a say about anything. Welcome to fascist USA.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)There was apathy over 2004 and 2008 vote tampdowns too. It takes an awful lot for Dems as a whole to be outraged enough to demand clean elections.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)sound like it, but it's not. Many experts have been saying this, literally from around the planet. What did you want, someone to knock on everyone's door so they couldn't miss this latest opinion from a private citizen?
If it's all those others who refuse to believe who're bothering you, I don't blame you for being bothered. I do emphatically object to anyone criticizing OUR party for THEIR dishonesty, though.
The messages are out. After that it's up to the people. Our voices have been on every news show that'll have them spreading the word about Russia ever since before November 8, and same for print and on-line media.
Those who want to know do.
But here's an idea. Why not spread the message yourself on other social media? Not this one, everyone knows it here. But for sure you can make sure no one you work or socialize with can claim to not know it.
gordianot
(15,226 posts)First with Stevenson, Kennedy, and LBJ all of whom reported what happened to authorities. Not much changed with KGB trained Putin. To me this is a big deal and should never be forgotten.
ailsagirl
(22,838 posts)Do you have a link?
I have a friend who absolutely refuses to believe the russians had anything to do with that so-called election
gordianot
(15,226 posts)Stevenson told the story in the 70s he reported it directly to Eisenhower. Apparently an old Russian trick. They even offered Stevenson opposition if that is what he wanted. Money and information were on the table.
ailsagirl
(22,838 posts)Mr. Sparkle
(2,915 posts)if this situation was flipped 180 , i have a feeling it would be front page news for days. The inherent bias of the media to downplay republicans actions that border on criminality, is truly shocking and getting long in the tooth.
flying_wahini
(6,529 posts)I know I did.
onetexan
(12,994 posts)during primaries when the idiot spoke well of dictator putin. All the facts that came out after the election so just validates this fact.
catbyte
(34,174 posts)And the theft was confirmed when Bill Scheutte sued to halt the recount when Hillary was catching up to it in vote counts. It had a 13.3K lead on election night & Scheutte halted the recount after it lost 3K votes. It won by 10.7K votes. Nothing sketchy or sleazy about that.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)Curious where your number of 3000 came from?
According to the vote totals from the Stein recount, Hillary gained 103 votes
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/MIRecount_545037_7.pdf
catbyte
(34,174 posts)Here was the election night total (Detroit Free Press)
11:44 a.m.: Michigan's 16 electoral votes go to Trump
With seven critical Genessee County precincts now reporting results, Donald Trump appears to have won Michigan by 13,225 votes -- a margin of less than three-tenths of a percent -- out of more than 4.8 million cast, according to unofficial results posted late this morning by the state.
This was the total after the courts stopped the recount.
Michigan
A federal judge late Sunday night in Detroit ordered a statewide hand recount of roughly 4.8 million ballots to start by noon Monday. Trump won the state by about 10,700 votes, or two-tenths of a percentage point, over Clinton.
Westcoast52
(34 posts)Trump and his enablers are not a well-oiled criminal machine, like the Russian mafia. I am hearing a lot of panicky concern on the talk circuit about Trump's latest crazy-town demand about spying. Like his demand to investigate the millions of illegal immigrants who voted for Hilary, the whole thing is bogus. If Trump perceives Rod Rosenstein is a cream puff he can roll over, will Rosenstein fold his four aces? I don't think so once Comrade Trump and Comrade Nunes make the next demand. Trump's imaginary power derives from his ability to get others who know better to enable him. Unfortunately, that includes the armed cretins who voted him in. If the Republic falls, so be it. Truth and law must prevail. Playing patty-cake with evil clowns is why our democracy is turning into a 'klepto-idiocracy.' Clapper reminds us of the cause of it all. Electing Trump President was an impossibility without huge interference in our system. We have to remove this 'cancer on the Presidency' quickly with the legal means at hand before too many people decide to vote by bullet.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,483 posts)With the bully pulpit, their own cable news channel, hundreds of right-wing talk radio stations, and a compliant main-stream media in the US, it's quite easy to out-shout us.
We also have a society where most people crave political sensationalism and conspiracy for entertainment.
........
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)The reason politicians don't say it is that it's not a proven fact yet, and it would highlight Trump's greatest fear so that there would be no telling what he might do, like a cougar cornered. He's bad enough thinking that that's what people think, but not knowing for sure. If he thought people were believing it, he might feel he has nothing to lose and do who knows what.
Then again...maybe if he does who knows what, it will be extreme enough that even Repubs would be on board in removing him from office.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)They might have, but he hasn't said it that I know of.
If he has, please quote it here.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,085 posts)Clapper didnt specifically claim the vote tally was changed.
That doesnt mean it didnt happen, it just means Clapper isnt publicly saying what you are saying he said.
So can everyone stop putting words in the poor mans mouth?
D_Master81
(1,822 posts)But I remember saying the day after the election that it was quite a coincidence that everything that needed to fall Trump's way to be able to win basically did and many of the times it was a very narrow win in state after state.