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deminks

(11,006 posts)
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:16 PM May 2018

DNI Clapper says Russia swung the election. Understand that. It was rigged. They flipped votes.

He's not saying they played around with some voter registrations.

Why are we not shouting this from the rooftops? Clapper is not some fringe radio nut. He is the former DNI. This is not an educated guess. This is an informed opinion.

The orange dumb-ass is illegitimate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/05/24/james-clappers-bombshell-russia-swung-the-election-what-if-hes-right/?utm_term=.660d8f301c1a

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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DNI Clapper says Russia swung the election. Understand that. It was rigged. They flipped votes. (Original Post) deminks May 2018 OP
K&R... spanone May 2018 #1
Yup. The KGOP repubes & russians stole the election from the American people Achilleaze May 2018 #2
No evidence manor321 May 2018 #3
He has seen the evidence G_j May 2018 #9
Given the OP is charitably misinterpreting what Clapper said mythology May 2018 #31
Lots of evidence Botany May 2018 #10
Wow! Had not heard of this before. triron May 2018 #12
Russia was so bold that two of the hackers left calling cards Botany May 2018 #13
You don't know that. Clapper is not some nobody off the street. brush May 2018 #40
The Russians accessed voter databases in 39 states! triron May 2018 #4
HRC lost by a total of 80,000 votes over three states, correct? Ilsa May 2018 #5
That makes a lot of sense alwaysinasnit May 2018 #14
26 out of 28 states gave Trump more votes than exit polls predicted! triron May 2018 #16
Holy Crap! alwaysinasnit May 2018 #17
They flipped votes in the form of their disinformation campaign worked. bearsfootball516 May 2018 #6
Precisely Sherman A1 May 2018 #8
Agree to your comment BUT bluestarone May 2018 #38
Yea TimeToGo May 2018 #18
Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan have not gone for an R as President. Botany May 2018 #7
Agreed! I've lived in PA for the past 25 years JoeOtterbein May 2018 #24
I forgot the date WI, PA, & MI have not gone for the GOP since 1984 Botany May 2018 #26
Clapper said the Russian interference ... Whiskeytide May 2018 #11
I'm not shouting because that's not the only thing that cost us election -- Dems who voted for Hoyt May 2018 #15
absolutely NRaleighLiberal May 2018 #19
and the same is planned for this November. C Moon May 2018 #20
The apathy over this is baffling lunamagica May 2018 #21
well, the KGOP is benefiting from the russian cyber war elmac May 2018 #25
I hear you. BlueWI May 2018 #35
For one thing, this isn't new news. MSNBC may make it Hortensis May 2018 #22
As Rachel Maddow pointed out the Soviet Russians tried this before. gordianot May 2018 #23
Wow! I did not know this ailsagirl May 2018 #28
No link but Maddow reported it last night. gordianot May 2018 #33
Words fail me. Really. ailsagirl May 2018 #45
The media's reaction to this has shockingly been, quite wtf ? Mr. Sparkle May 2018 #27
I think many of us here on DU smelled a rat on election night. flying_wahini May 2018 #29
that was clear to me before the 2016 election onetexan May 2018 #30
I've known that since the morning of November 9, 2016 when it "won" MI. catbyte May 2018 #32
Where did you see 3000? MichMan May 2018 #39
Here are the numbers I saw: catbyte May 2018 #41
Don't Overestimate These Clowns Westcoast52 May 2018 #34
We have shouted this from rooftops. Repugs have taller rooftops. KY_EnviroGuy May 2018 #36
He IS illegitimate. But the reason politicians don't say it... Honeycombe8 May 2018 #37
Clapper DID NOT SAY Russia flipped votes RandomAccess May 2018 #42
I don't think Clapper has said that. Tommy_Carcetti May 2018 #43
Dont know if any of it is provable D_Master81 May 2018 #44
K&R Scurrilous May 2018 #46
 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
31. Given the OP is charitably misinterpreting what Clapper said
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:32 PM
May 2018

The entire thread should be deleted. It's embarrassing.

Clapper has made zero claims that votes were changed from what the voter intended.

Botany

(70,291 posts)
10. Lots of evidence
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:27 PM
May 2018

Russia was into Wisconsin @ the county level

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/01/23/russians-suspected-hacking-local-dems/96965824/

******

A member of the Russian Duma bragged about it.

https://www.axios.com/russian-politician-says-on-live-tv-that-russia-stole-us-presidency-1513305421-105c4fa4-70e6-4fa4-98c9-eb90e35987ad.html

Russian politician Vyacheslav Nikonov, a member of the Duma, said U.S. "intelligence missed it when Russian intelligence stole the president of the United States." He made the remarks on a Russian panel show, "Sunday Evening with Vladimir Solovyov."

The episode centered on the U.S.' diminishing power on the world stage and the resulting chaos, The Hill reports. University of Virginia professor Allen Lynch told The Hill that Nikonov's statement was directed at the idea that the U.S. must be losing power if it can't uphold the integrity of its own electoral system.

Julia Davis, who monitors Russian media, first noted the comments on her Twitter account last night.

******

Russia was into voter d-bases and was working on the operating systems of the voting machines and
tabulators in 39 states

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections

********

And that is above and beyond all the damning info there is already re: Russia/Trump team conspiracy. There were 75+ CONTACTS WITH RUSSIA-LINKED OPERATIVES that we know about. And there is already a great deal of evidence of conspiracy.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/22/1765918/-Rosenstein-is-Playing-Trump-Because-He-Knows-How-This-Will-End-Tuesday-s-Good-News

triron

(21,916 posts)
4. The Russians accessed voter databases in 39 states!
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:20 PM
May 2018

I'm sure all they did was see if they could. (sarcasm)

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
5. HRC lost by a total of 80,000 votes over three states, correct?
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:22 PM
May 2018

If you figure those three states had about 5000 precincts each, then that's between 5 and 6 votes per precinct, meaning only about three votes per precinct would need to be flipped from HRC to dumbass.

alwaysinasnit

(5,037 posts)
14. That makes a lot of sense
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:38 PM
May 2018

That would keep them within the margin of error in the exit polling, wouldn't it?

bearsfootball516

(6,369 posts)
6. They flipped votes in the form of their disinformation campaign worked.
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:24 PM
May 2018

But as far as actually going into voting machines and changing votes, there's no evidence of that, and he doesn't say anything like that.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
8. Precisely
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:26 PM
May 2018

I am at least hopeful that an electronic fingerprint would exist to indicate if the machines were hacked at the various precincts and counties.

bluestarone

(16,722 posts)
38. Agree to your comment BUT
Thu May 24, 2018, 06:38 PM
May 2018

Were ANY MACHINES checked??? I've not heard of any!!!! So how do we know for sure???

Botany

(70,291 posts)
7. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan have not gone for an R as President.
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:24 PM
May 2018

“As a private citizen, it’s what I would call my informed opinion that, given the massive effort the Russians made, and the number of citizens that they touched, and the variety and multi-dimensional aspects of what they did to influence opinion … and given the fact that it turned on less than 80,000 votes in three states, to me it exceeds logic and credulity that they didn’t affect the election. And it’s my belief they actually turned it.”

Russia was into Wisconsin @ the county level.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/01/23/russians-suspected-hacking-local-dems/96965824/

Botany

(70,291 posts)
26. I forgot the date WI, PA, & MI have not gone for the GOP since 1984
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:21 PM
May 2018

And the idea that Russia accessed all those voter d-bases and didn't do anything with that
information is laughable.

Whiskeytide

(4,459 posts)
11. Clapper said the Russian interference ...
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:27 PM
May 2018

... affected the decisions of voters at the polls. He did not say they electronically changed or flipped votes. He also didn’t say that they didn’t, but he is definitely not making that claim.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
15. I'm not shouting because that's not the only thing that cost us election -- Dems who voted for
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:40 PM
May 2018

trump or 3rd party candidate, those who sat out election, etc., over disappointment their guy didn't win primary hurt us. Comey cost us. Stupid people willing to accept lies hurt us. People who thought she had it and stayed home hurt us. Racism/bigotry hurt us. Democrats who don't usually vote and didn't again, cost us.

There is no evidence -- other than "it could have happened" -- that votes were flipped.

Personally, I think trying to make Russia the scapegoat is counterproductive.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
25. well, the KGOP is benefiting from the russian cyber war
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:20 PM
May 2018

so they are snug as a bug, the corporate press is fine with it because they are making huge profits under KGOZP rule, and that leaves we the people who no longer have a say about anything. Welcome to fascist USA.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
35. I hear you.
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:58 PM
May 2018

There was apathy over 2004 and 2008 vote tampdowns too. It takes an awful lot for Dems as a whole to be outraged enough to demand clean elections.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. For one thing, this isn't new news. MSNBC may make it
Thu May 24, 2018, 04:39 PM
May 2018

sound like it, but it's not. Many experts have been saying this, literally from around the planet. What did you want, someone to knock on everyone's door so they couldn't miss this latest opinion from a private citizen?

If it's all those others who refuse to believe who're bothering you, I don't blame you for being bothered. I do emphatically object to anyone criticizing OUR party for THEIR dishonesty, though.


The messages are out. After that it's up to the people. Our voices have been on every news show that'll have them spreading the word about Russia ever since before November 8, and same for print and on-line media.

Those who want to know do.

But here's an idea. Why not spread the message yourself on other social media? Not this one, everyone knows it here. But for sure you can make sure no one you work or socialize with can claim to not know it.

gordianot

(15,226 posts)
23. As Rachel Maddow pointed out the Soviet Russians tried this before.
Thu May 24, 2018, 04:51 PM
May 2018

First with Stevenson, Kennedy, and LBJ all of whom reported what happened to authorities. Not much changed with KGB trained Putin. To me this is a big deal and should never be forgotten.

ailsagirl

(22,838 posts)
28. Wow! I did not know this
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:26 PM
May 2018

Do you have a link?

I have a friend who absolutely refuses to believe the russians had anything to do with that so-called election

gordianot

(15,226 posts)
33. No link but Maddow reported it last night.
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:52 PM
May 2018

Stevenson told the story in the 70’s he reported it directly to Eisenhower. Apparently an old Russian trick. They even offered Stevenson opposition if that is what he wanted. Money and information were on the table.

Mr. Sparkle

(2,915 posts)
27. The media's reaction to this has shockingly been, quite wtf ?
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:25 PM
May 2018

if this situation was flipped 180 , i have a feeling it would be front page news for days. The inherent bias of the media to downplay republicans actions that border on criminality, is truly shocking and getting long in the tooth.

onetexan

(12,994 posts)
30. that was clear to me before the 2016 election
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:29 PM
May 2018

during primaries when the idiot spoke well of dictator putin. All the facts that came out after the election so just validates this fact.

catbyte

(34,174 posts)
32. I've known that since the morning of November 9, 2016 when it "won" MI.
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:33 PM
May 2018

And the theft was confirmed when Bill Scheutte sued to halt the recount when Hillary was catching up to it in vote counts. It had a 13.3K lead on election night & Scheutte halted the recount after it lost 3K votes. It won by 10.7K votes. Nothing sketchy or sleazy about that.

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
39. Where did you see 3000?
Thu May 24, 2018, 06:48 PM
May 2018

Curious where your number of 3000 came from?

According to the vote totals from the Stein recount, Hillary gained 103 votes


https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/MIRecount_545037_7.pdf


catbyte

(34,174 posts)
41. Here are the numbers I saw:
Thu May 24, 2018, 08:18 PM
May 2018

Here was the election night total (Detroit Free Press)

11:44 a.m.: Michigan's 16 electoral votes go to Trump
With seven critical Genessee County precincts now reporting results, Donald Trump appears to have won Michigan by 13,225 votes -- a margin of less than three-tenths of a percent -- out of more than 4.8 million cast, according to unofficial results posted late this morning by the state.

This was the total after the courts stopped the recount.

Michigan

A federal judge late Sunday night in Detroit ordered a statewide hand recount of roughly 4.8 million ballots to start by noon Monday. Trump won the state by about 10,700 votes, or two-tenths of a percentage point, over Clinton.

 

Westcoast52

(34 posts)
34. Don't Overestimate These Clowns
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:56 PM
May 2018

Trump and his enablers are not a well-oiled criminal machine, like the Russian mafia. I am hearing a lot of panicky concern on the talk circuit about Trump's latest crazy-town demand about spying. Like his demand to investigate the millions of illegal immigrants who voted for Hilary, the whole thing is bogus. If Trump perceives Rod Rosenstein is a cream puff he can roll over, will Rosenstein fold his four aces? I don't think so once Comrade Trump and Comrade Nunes make the next demand. Trump's imaginary power derives from his ability to get others who know better to enable him. Unfortunately, that includes the armed cretins who voted him in. If the Republic falls, so be it. Truth and law must prevail. Playing patty-cake with evil clowns is why our democracy is turning into a 'klepto-idiocracy.' Clapper reminds us of the cause of it all. Electing Trump President was an impossibility without huge interference in our system. We have to remove this 'cancer on the Presidency' quickly with the legal means at hand before too many people decide to vote by bullet.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
36. We have shouted this from rooftops. Repugs have taller rooftops.
Thu May 24, 2018, 06:05 PM
May 2018

With the bully pulpit, their own cable news channel, hundreds of right-wing talk radio stations, and a compliant main-stream media in the US, it's quite easy to out-shout us.

We also have a society where most people crave political sensationalism and conspiracy for entertainment.

........

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
37. He IS illegitimate. But the reason politicians don't say it...
Thu May 24, 2018, 06:10 PM
May 2018

The reason politicians don't say it is that it's not a proven fact yet, and it would highlight Trump's greatest fear so that there would be no telling what he might do, like a cougar cornered. He's bad enough thinking that that's what people think, but not knowing for sure. If he thought people were believing it, he might feel he has nothing to lose and do who knows what.

Then again...maybe if he does who knows what, it will be extreme enough that even Repubs would be on board in removing him from office.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
42. Clapper DID NOT SAY Russia flipped votes
Thu May 24, 2018, 08:23 PM
May 2018

They might have, but he hasn't said it that I know of.

If he has, please quote it here.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,085 posts)
43. I don't think Clapper has said that.
Thu May 24, 2018, 09:35 PM
May 2018

Clapper didn’t specifically claim the vote tally was changed.

That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, it just means Clapper isn’t publicly saying what you are saying he said.

So can everyone stop putting words in the poor man’s mouth?

D_Master81

(1,822 posts)
44. Dont know if any of it is provable
Thu May 24, 2018, 09:42 PM
May 2018

But I remember saying the day after the election that it was quite a coincidence that everything that needed to fall Trump's way to be able to win basically did and many of the times it was a very narrow win in state after state.

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