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[Botany]

1. Why post crap like this?

"I am not trying to be contentious." Oh please.

[Cary]

3. Why attack me?

The issue was just discussed on Joy. Why can't I ask?

You're free to ignore me.

[bahrbearian]

8. To make DU look less relevant .

[bitterross]

56. I agree. It is this type of posting that the other side uses against us.

I fully believe the people on the other side look for posts like this and all the useless anti-Sanders stuff posted here too. They love it when they find us fighting amongst ourselves. It's free for them and provides great research on how to manipulate us.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Grab a mirror and take a good look. nt

[Cary]

6. I hit a nerve, apparrently.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I wasn't aware of it because I don't have much to do with Facebook

or other infiltrated social media. There will always be legitimate opposition to any candidate - that's the nature of primaries - but after this we have to be more aware of who is behind it and whether there is any truth to opposition claims. I'm sure no real Sanders supporter ever intended the result that occurred.

[leftstreet]

5. Where is this happening? n/t

[BeyondGeography]

7. Repent, all ye opponents of Hillary!

Oy.

[dembotoz]

9. Isn't pope Francis supposed to approve saint hood?

[BeyondGeography]

40. Practically everyone here voted for her in the GE

But some did not express their love unconditionally throughout the entire nomination process, ergo Russian dupes.

[dembotoz]

60. Yes we all fell into line and worked and voted for her

[Autumn]

10. I wasn't used. I preferred Bernie in the primary in 2016, voted Hillary.

I preferred Hillary in 08 voted Obama. Isn't that what a primary is for? I have no problem with myself or others pointing out what i considered to be the faults of any opposing candidate. You do know that Hillary won the most voters in 2016? I repeat, I was never used and would support Bernie in the 2016 primary if I had it to do over again in a heartbeat. That was my intention and that was what I did. And I am damn proud of it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. Same here. I wasn't used. I had legitimate, considered reasons

for supporting Sanders during the primaries, and I happily voted for Hillary in the general. Whatever shenanigans were going on in social media had no effect; I was always going to vote for the Dem candidate, whoever that turned out to be.

[Autumn]

15. I'm smart enough to know when I'm being fed bullshit so social media means nothing.

I paid attention to where they stood on the issues and supported Bernie in the primaries. And if he runs again in a primary I would support him again as long as I agree with his stand on the issues. But some dead horses have to be beat when they have nothing else.

[safeinOhio]

16. 100% agree with you.

I think most of us that voted in the general election did the same.

[Autumn]

19. 2016 rests on the backs of two campaigns, Donald Trump and Hillary Clintons.

They were the nominees and whether it was the probable Russian interference or the FBI and MSM that's not the fault of their opponents or the opponents supporters.

[R B Garr]

20. You can't change the facts to fit a preferred

narrative anymore. Sorry. Hillary was attacked from the right AND the left. Seriously, your statement is void of any current news of actual events about the Russian interference. It’s all over the news. All it took was 75,000 nationally to vote against her. The negative influence campaign was meant to divide Democrats or discourage people from voting for her. Now we have Trump. Reality.

[Autumn]

24. Reality is Hillary won the popular vote and Trump won the EC. Thats reality

I'm not interested in discussing this with you. Take care and good bye.

[R B Garr]

30. Despite coordinated attacks against her. You know what was

done to her was wrong because no one wants Bernie subjected to any actual vetting, so you know that bullshit attacks are not a good thing. It wasn’t a good thing what was done to our candidate. That’s why there is the conventional wisdom not to attack a fellow Democrat too long in a primary because it is damaging.

By “you” I’m not referring to you personally, but the vernacular “you” of voting groups.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

48. In a heartbeat is right... you SHOULD be proud! Also, in voting for Hillary

over that Nazi beast who now occupies the Oval Office. It's called "democracy" for a reason... from which our party takes its name. We should embrace it!!

[pangaia]

11. WTF?

[ornotna]

12. Where is the option-I wasn't asked to do this

Never happened to me. The horse is dead, why are you still beating it?

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Don't take offense, but I find you choice of choices offensive

I would have checked "My reasons for supporting Bernie had nothing to do with Russian propaganda. Of course I resent and oppose all efforts by foreign players to manipulate American elections for or against anyone."

[Cary]

21. That wasn't my question.

I assume most Sanders supporters didn't want #fakepresident.

Why be so defensive? The question is aimed at being better going forward. We will face these tactics again.

[Squinch]

50. I don't understand why this is controversial. I opted for Hillary fairly early, but I will

readily admit that I read all those Russia Times posts here, and I am sure I was influenced by some of them.

I remember thinking at one point, "When did RT become such a good source?" Obviously I was mistaken, and I wasn't even one of their target audience.

So why can't their target audience see that they were targeted, and why can't we state the fact that it happened?

[PufPuf23]

17. The OP is divisive BS.

At DU there is far more effort to attack Sanders than HRC.

Extremely unproductive for the Democratic party and for efforts to fight the GOP and derail Trump.

[Cary]

25. I disagree

Knowlwedge is power.

[PufPuf23]

31. So is good spelling.

Or maybe you meant to type "knowl" wedge as your OP is a wedge that divides and is one reason that DU is of less interest and value.

The Sanders bashing here (and that is what your OP is) is divisive and harms the Democratic party.

I thought we are supposed to leave the 2016 primaries behind at DU?

[Cary]

33. Why are you so defensive?

[rzemanfl]

57. You inadvertently (I think) coined a new, quite perfect word.

"Knowlwedge"-how Cambridge Analytica, Wikileaks, Russia and others used the Internet to throw the election to Drumpf by exploiting wedge issues and fake news.

I am stealing your word. If you object, PM me the copyright.

[Cary]

59. It was inadvertent. Feel free to use with my blessing.

[Squinch]

49. There is no criticism of Sanders in the OP. There is acknowledgment of the fact - proven

by the outed Russian trolls - that many Sanders supporters were targeted by those trolls and did their work for them.

[R B Garr]

18. This is the question/issue of our time.

Not just because of any one candidate, but the process of coordinated attacks and foreign money used to support both opponents of our candidate —who just happened to be Hillary this time.

There was plenty of bullshit spread about Hillary, even here (a kind understatement). All it took was 75,000 people nationally to buy the attacks from the right AND the left. Now we have Trump. This is the factual legacy of 2016.

That’s how we got George Bush. Imagine the world if environmentalist/climate change proponent Al Gore was President instead of George Bush of the Iraq war for oil crowd.

[Cary]

32. I thinks so too

And look at how defensive some of us are?

That's unfortunate. If I cannot simply ask them how they feel about this without them getting bent out of shape then that's a problem.

[Squinch]

42. And the responses are interesting and discouraging. This will happen again, and the same people

will fall for it.

[Raysawesome34]

22. This is my 1st post here.

Does this happen all the time? Because this doesn't bode well for November, or 2020 if we remain divided.
Yeah, I wanted Bernie to win the primary. When he first entered race, my first thought was "Great! I can vote Bernie in the primary, and probably vote for Clinton in the general."
Then the primaries happened. And I still voted for Clinton. About the only thing I was told on social media about the primaries was that I was getting in the way of greatness, of herstory.
We, collectively, need to get our shit together and stop fighting one another.
Leftists like myself need to figure out that there's nothing wrong with a little pragmatism.
All you centrists need to figure out that we can have a few ponies.
Let's get this right before we start losing again.

[Cary]

29. How do you come to label me a centrist?

You assume a lot in your first post.

[Squinch]

43. Who are "all you centrists?" Who are you speaking to here?

[R B Garr]

45. Your first post is full of contradictions and complete fallacies.

It actually illustrates the OP’s example of bullshit attacks on Hillary. Calling it “herstory” was just one of the many superficial attacks on her. Sounds like a JPR concern...

[ismnotwasm]

23. For amusement purposes, I just went back to a few primary threads

Since people apparently cannot admit they were influenced by media, clearly influenced—and not just “social” media, (remember HA Goodman lololol) the first time, I fully expect this shit to happen again.

[Cary]

26. It doesn't take much

One person proliferates one small piece of disinformation, discord, or discontent, and perhaps a few people decide to sit at home. Or maybe a right wing mope is encouraged.

Even now I have "conservatives" working hard to discourage me. I give them no quarter.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. Well, all I can say is that HA Goodman didn't influence my opinion

in the slightest; I concluded he was an idiot the first time I read his drivel. I supported Sanders in the primaries and Clinton in the general, and numpties like Goodman had no effect on my opinion of either of them.

[ismnotwasm]

37. Good for you!

He actually wasn’t hard to see through, what he did was spout and support bullshit. He’s one of the funniest examples though. Salon and Politico both were fairy complicit I think

[Squinch]

46. RT was a very respected source here for a while there.

[stevenleser]

27. Many of us saw from the beginning that Sanders' candidacy was being weaponized by the right

and that this would be the main effect of that candidacy.

It was pretty obvious from the beginning. The moment I saw the rhetoric coming from supporters that concentrated as much on or more on Hillary and the Democratic Party being ‘bad’ as their candidate being ‘good’ I could see where this was going. It didn’t take a particularly smart person to see it, we saw the same from Nader in 2000.

Remember Nader and his supporters portrayed Gore and Democrats as no better than Bush. We got the same nonsense from Sanders supporters. Many of them are still spouting that over at JPR so you can literally see it in real time right now.

Some folks are using every defense mechanism they can think of to avoid seeing themselves as part of the problem. They literally can’t handle your question.

But it’s an important one to ponder and wrestle with not least because this is now the second time this has happened. Those who attacked Hillary didn’t learn from what happened to Gore in the Nader situation, so the question is, how do we get folks to not make this mistake again.

[Cary]

35. But what do we do going forward?

The past is prologue. We can see more clearly that yes, it was weaponized. They breached our fortifications, now how do we counter?

[ismnotwasm]

39. I know I fact check everything now

No matter how uncomfortable. Particularly thrown together charts and memes. People can draw different conclusions from facts themselves, this is what makes us thinking creatures, and I vow to be willing to learn new things. My Rep. Pramila Payapal was endorsed by Bernie. In the anger of the primaries, this was not a benefit in my eyes. I now adore her, and she being the great Democrat she is, fights tooth and nail for what’s right.

[aikoaiko]

34. False info, divide and conquer, smears, fake protests are all status quo - its expected.

The only thing that really matters with these issues is that some of them were perpetrated by a foreign power (probably in cahoots with Trump or other Republicans) and that must be punished and stopped.

I think a lot of folks, including me, expected it to come from the Koch brothers or some other moneyed Republican interest.

Apparently, I didn't see most of the bizarre FB ads that were out there and DU MIRT cleaned up a lot of stuff here before I saw it.

[Cary]

36. Thank you for addressing the issue

I simply want to see the tactic neutralized. I am not accusing Sanders' supporters.

[aikoaiko]

52. You're welcome.

Your question is a good one, but it wasn't long ago that angry Democrats accused Bernie supporters of being mindlessly manipulated by Russian propaganda and that they wouldn't have anything negative to say about Clinton if they weren't so mindless. I'm paraphrasing, of course. I think that's why you're seeing some defensiveness.

[Cary]

54. I was never anti Sanders

But that never mattered to some.

[Midwestern Democrat]

38. It's been 19 months since the election - at some point, we're going to have to close the book on it

and put it in the loss column (and no, I'm not a Sanders supporter - I was never a Hillary fan but voting for her in the 2016 primary was pretty easy - I thought the very LAST thing this party needed to do was move to the left).

[Cary]

44. Yeah, let's not discuss things that are in the news.

I mean what do I think this is? A discussion board?

Here. Read this.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/black-cube-inside-shadowy-israeli-firm-accused-trying-undermine-iran-n877511

[brooklynite]

41. As a Clinton supporter, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Cary]

47. What does being a Hillary Clinton supporter have to do with it?

This is a tactic we should all work together against.

[ismnotwasm]

53. What do you see as weaknesses?

[Cary]

58. Is your narrative relevant to my question?

Or are you trying to deflect?

[sarcasmo]

55. This post violates the D/U TOS.