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bucolic_frolic
(55,136 posts)Ladders don't matter at all. You can have a sense of entitlement about anything - wealth, shooting guns at 2am, getting double fries for free at a restaurant. Socioeconomic class matters little or not at all.
Privilege is only incidentally about economic opportunity which is closely related to economic equality.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Privilege is an external circumstance created by the racial and social history and dynamics in this country. It is sometimes, but not always or even usually related to economics. Entitlement is an internal belief that one is deserving of advantages. Some of the most privileged and entitled people I’ve met in my life didn’t have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
It is possible to be privileged without having a sense of entitlement.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That seems neither useful, instructive, nor accurate.
Everyone is capable of reaching their goals - some have advantages that make it easier than others.
This country has never lived up to that boast. Children, particularly those of color, who grow up in circumstances where it is near impossible to get an education, plus who have systemic racism working against them, have much less chance of reaching their goals or meeting their capabilities.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The deck is completely stacked against them.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's my problem with those tweets.
Look at someone like LeBron James, for instance. He had systematic racism working against him, along with being raised by a single mother, and growing up in poverty.
In spite of those enormous challenges/obstacles, he was able to achieve his goals and even exceed them.
mcar
(46,056 posts)How many young people of color have his athletic ability? And of them, how many get noticed?
How about all the brilliant kids in crappy urban or Appalachian school systems who never have the chance to really use their brains?
It's why films are made and books are written about the few who get out. It's that rare
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I just think "a ladder that is too short to reach one's goal" is not a good illustration. Perhaps some kind of ladder that only someone of extraordinary talent and skill can possibly climb would capture the concept better.
mcar
(46,056 posts)The reality is, well, real. Use what phrases you like.
ariadne0614
(2,174 posts)
Squinch
(59,522 posts)I think Dickens might have written this character.
Captain Stern
(2,253 posts)The tweet would have been better, and far more accurate, without the part about the ladder 'is too short to reach goal'.
But other than that part of the example, I believe the tweet is 100% spot on, as I'm sure you do also.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)unheard of talent in order to achieve what mediocre people take as their due.
Here’s a hint, Boo. That kind of “I’m going to point to a one-a-million successful black athlete to prove that anybody can make it in this country” analogy? Don’t. People laugh when white people say stupid stuff like that (and not just black people - that cracks up woke white people, too). And I hate it when people laugh at you. I’m the only one who’s supposed to do that.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Don't you think presenting the notion of "a ladder that is too short to reach one's goal" is potentially problematic just in terms of the language and the illustration?
Wouldn't it be more effective to describe something that presents enormous obstacles, but obstacles that could conceivably be overcome (albeit with tremendous difficulty and struggle)?
Do you really want to tell someone that because they do not have privilege, they will not be able to reach their goal? (As opposed to saying that they could reach their goal but will (unjustly) have to work much harder and deal with a lot more hardship and obstacles along the way)
Just food for thought.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And while I appreciate your concern, black people are not going to be confused or demoralized or discouraged from continuing to work harder and try harder to overcome obstacles because some stranger on Twitter didn’t articulate their predicament to your exacting specificatioms.
Nice try, though.
mcar
(46,056 posts)
blm
(114,658 posts)As always.
I applaud your reply and your patience, Effie.
stonecutter357
(13,045 posts)
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)to "prove" that black people have an equal shot. Never mind James was one no-tolerance drug charge from losing it all.
You can't parody these people.
sheshe2
(97,622 posts)Because of the color of his skin and not the contents of his bank account.
Docreed2003
(18,714 posts)The analogy itself is privileged at best and racist at worst.
"See Little Black boys and girls...you can be just like Lebron James and be successful in this world.." That message is already being heard by far too many that the only way for POC to succeed in this world is to pursue professional sports. I'm not knocking Lebron, he is an incredible talent and tends to use his influence for good off the court. Yet, how many young kids are going to grow up to be the next Lebron or Odell Beckham Jr or the Williams sisters or Tiger woods, and on and on...
Why not, and I realize I'm going to sound like I'm opening up a Booker T Washington vs W.E.B. Du Bois style debate here, but why not empower and encourage and provide a way for young minorities to find successful careers, be exposed and inspired by all professions, and actually give them a hand up that fragile ladder??
My footing is strong...let me provide a hand up to solid ground.
That, to me, is more fitting than saying "Look at this once in a million athlete...you could be just like them"
(My dear Effie...please forgive my rant. I just could help but to respond to the above post and my emotions got the best of me)
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)He says that, now that he’s really rich, he bought a mansion in a very exclusive community in New Jersey. The only other black person in the neighborhood is Dr. J. But his next-door-neighbor is a DENTIST.
“If you’re black, you have to be a f@&king world famous multimillionaire celebrity before they’ll let you in, but if you’re white, you just need to be a DENTIST with some money.”
Docreed2003
(18,714 posts)
Marcuse
(9,010 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
olegramps
(8,200 posts)"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
HL Mencken July 1920
Squinch
(59,522 posts)they didn't work as hard as LeBron James? That's your argument?
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)LeBron James who's house was vandalized with racist graffiti in January 2017 right? Sure he has money, but he's still subject to the same racist crap any black man in the US is.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)before he gets shot.
And who made those ladders short? That was wypipo.
You say
4. Some people have ladders that are too short to reach their goals?
That seems neither useful, instructive, nor accurate.
Everyone is capable of reaching their goals - some have advantages that make it easier than others.
I am sorry but you are so wrong. I respectively disagree that the ladders are equal. I respectively disagree that mentioning the inequality of the ladder's is not useful or in accurate. I firmly believe it is instructive for anyone that cares to learn about inequality.
Slavery By Another Name
For most Americans this is entirely new history. Slavery by Another Name gives voice to the largely forgotten victims and perpetrators of forced labor and features their descendants living today.
http://www.pbs.org/tpt/slavery-by-another-name/home/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)To clarify, I am saying it is neither helpful, nor accurate, nor instructive to say to someone who does not have privilege that they figuratively are born with a ladder that is too short for them to reach their goal.
Do you not see anything problematic with at least that one portion of the illustration?
Do you actually endorse telling people that because of their lack of privilege they will be literally incapable of reaching their goals in life?
sheshe2
(97,622 posts)They can reach their goal financially and/or celebrity wise....that will never ever save them from a traffic stop a taser or a gun shot for walking while black, having coffee while black, talking on a cell phone while black or being a child while black.
Oberliner
If their main goal is their right to live in these times, yes they will have a problem reaching their goals.
Did ya know? If you take a knee while black ( highly paid athletes) 'rump wants them deported. Highly paid professionals are being threatened by 'rump. They are protesting unarmed black children being murdered and the 'resident wants them deported. The ladder slipped another rung.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)
thucythucy
(9,103 posts)How privileged do you have to be to believe that anyone can reach their goals if they just try hard enough?
Squinch
(59,522 posts)they've pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and they deserve everything they have, and others don't have it because they don't deserve it.
brush
(61,033 posts)also keep thousands of AAs in servitude for decades.
NoMoreRepugs
(12,076 posts)Limited, average goals yes (maybe) - but serious, lofty goals? No way no how.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)the obstacles in life a person who lacks privilege will face without explicitly telling them that they will not be able to achieve their goals, no matter what.
NoMoreRepugs
(12,076 posts)they will never amount to much. There are the rare exceptions of course but it's naive to not acknowledge the obvious.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)nitpicking on a metaphor.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Squinch
(59,522 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Although the clone OPs are an interesting twist - if you have a chance to read them before they sink like an anchor ...
Squinch
(59,522 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)Makes one wonder what their agenda is? Certainly seems anti-progressive yet they persist.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Which I suspect isn't really cluelessness at all.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)...just because.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)that I can't spell it without looking it up. Or looking at your spelling of it.
Also, nitpicking IS a gross word, isn't it?
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)
stmac
(22 posts)to attain their goals. Have to work harder, maybe, have to be that much better, sure (these are positive messages for anyone). To tell someone their goals are impossible or unachieveble is poisonous.
Hopefully those with this viewpoint aren’t in a position to be teaching children, or anyone else who’s impressionable.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)“Hopefully those with this viewpoint aren’t in a position to be teaching children, or anyone else who’s impressionable.”
The people who are struggling the most with these racial barriers already know all about them. Talking about it isn’t “poisonous” or discouraging to them, so you don’t need to worry that they’re too “impressionable” to be able to handle it.
In fact, the discussion isn’t even being directed to the people trying to overcome the obstacles because they already fully understand what’s going on and don’t need an explanation The discussion and definitions - including Blow’s and SnappyChickpea’s tweets - are directed to those white folk who still seem to be having trouble understanding and/or acknowledging white privilege and how they benefit from it. And, as evidenced by some of the comments in this thread, some people are still having difficulty with the concept but feel perfectly entitled to instruct the rest of us about it (aka “whitesplain” it to us).
stmac
(22 posts)They will have to deal with.
I’m dead-set against telling anyone that their goals are impossible or “unreachable”, especially children.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But let’s pretend otherwise, becasue it makes some people uncomfortable.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)They are already quite aware.
The point of these tweets and this discussion is not to make black people aware of what they live every single minute if every day or to tell them their goals are impossible or unreachable. In fact, it’s not to tell or make THEM aware of anything.
The point is to help WHITE PEOPLE better understand how THEIR OWN privilege functions. You’re not in any position to tell black folk whether their goals are reachable. But you ARE in a position, if you haven’t already done so, to become more familiar with and check your own privilege and to help other white people do the same.
stmac
(22 posts)are unobtainable. If that’s whitesplaining then I guess I’m guilty.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And refusing to see - although I’ve told you several times - that this discussion has nothing to do with “telling people” what they can and can’t achieve.
So, I’ll tell you one more time. None of us need to be “told” that we face obstacles that white people do not. We are well aware of it because, unlike with for most other people, this is a daily fact of life for us. Black mothers and black fathers have been schooling and counseling and advising and building up and protecting their children about this for centuries. So you need not worry that any acknowledgment or discussion of this reality and its effect on our goals, dreams and achievements will in any way discourage or thwart us. The fact that YOU may just now be hearing about it for the first time does not mean that it is a new phenomenon. Bubit does suggest that yo need to stop lecturing black peoples about what we should and should not say about racism and white privilege and you DEFINITELY need to stop patronizing us with your “concern” that we’re not capable of handling such discussions but will instead cower and fail because someone had the temerity to say it out loud.
stmac
(22 posts)Not sure how you got that from my reply, but then again, my only point in all this is:
Nobody should be told their goals are unobtainable.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)So you must be repeating ad nauseum different versions of the same tone-deaf line for some other reason.
And, since I have an idea what it is, I'll just leave you to yourself.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)that there are things that, barring a stunningly unlikely confluence of events, will be unobtainable for them.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)There is a fallacy in your understanding. Read on and see if you can determine where it is.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The immediate reaction is not to listen, try to understand and, God forbid, engage in some self-reflection but to immediately lecture black people on why our definition of “privilege” isn’t accurate - and why it’s harmful to black children and others because if someone tells them about {racism - shhhh - not too loud}, it will discourage the poor little things from succeeding.
One of the essential tenets of the sense of entitlement that privilege brings is the perfectly well-honed but tone-deaf belief that this level of arrogance and paternalism is acceptable and appropriate in a moment such as this. And, of course, being completely clueless about the cluelessness.
betsuni
(29,078 posts)until there's discussion of racism and white privilege. Suddenly they become sad and discouraged, might crawl into bed and never get out again. Is that the argument or is it my imagination?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Thank God we have pipo to tell us what to say and how to say it so we can make sure that blahpipo don’t get discouraged and stop trying because, you know, we have always given up so easily.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)It isn't OK to tell kids that the system is fine and they just need to work harder. The system is broken - and specifically racist - and needs to be changed. We all - of all colors - need to realize that so we work to change the system. Teaching some myth that "anything is possible if you work hard enough" just perpetuates the broken, racist system.
pamela
(3,480 posts)Last edited Mon May 28, 2018, 08:28 PM - Edit history (1)
You are assuming that the ladder is the only way to reach one's goals and that there is only one way to use the ladder. When you let go of that mental set, it's a perfect analogy.
Take Lebron James-born with a ladder too short, but with amazing athletic ability, he used the too short ladder as a pole vault. Barack Obama used his brilliance to MacGiver the too short ladder into something else entirely.
Telling black people they are born with a too-short ladder isn't exactly a news flash for them. They know they will have to work harder and be smarter than someone who was born with a ladder up to any task. They also know that guys like W and trump were born with chair lifts attached to their ladders.
It's only a bad analogy if your mental set is so fixed you see the ladder (and its traditional usage) as the only way to achieve one's goals. It's just an aid. White privilege is being able to live your entire life stuck in that mental set because you never had to figure out another way to make your ladder up to the task.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
This is an awesome post!
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)A little tidbit that might become an OP?
bucolic_frolic
(55,136 posts)So I'll try to clarify and muddy the waters some more. 
Privilege is a sense of psychological entitlement, a mindset. You can have every socioeconomic advantage in the world and still be gracious toward those less advantaged or of a different country or race or religion, be magnanimous in other words, and still not exude an aura of privilege. You can also be the richest slob in town and view yourself as superior to other mortals and consider yourself entitled to the privileges you define - race, religion, color, social club, or best damn womanizer east of Texas. It is an ugly world at times.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Privilege is a circumstance, not an attitude.
You even helped make my point and contradict your own when you referred to “considering yourself titled to the privileges you define.”
Privilege and entitlement are not the same things.
OregonBlue
(8,215 posts)are any more entitled than anyone else. Entitlement is solely a state of mind. The dumbest, poorest, cracker in Mississippi will still often believe they are entitled to be treated better than people who have skin a shade darker than there's. And if the darker skinned people are successful and wealthy it offends their sense of entitlement even more.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)The US is incredibly class stratified, incredibly unequal, but the 1% do not call it class. Thus everyone becomes middle class, which sounds nice but explains nothing.
cyclonefence
(5,151 posts)class is kind of irrelevant. My toothless nose-picking inbred criminal white relatives are privileged when it comes to, to use the obvious instance, calling the cops and not fearing they will be shot dead. As opposed to the Harvard-trained world-renowned historian who happens to be black and is handcuffed by police on his own front porch.
And don't say it could never happen, because it has.
I totally agree with you about class in America, though--There is the one percent, and then there is the rest of us, and we all like to described ourselves as "middle class"--meaningless.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's an analogy that is way off base.
Charles Blow's explanation is a good one.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I’ve missed you the last few days! 
But I should have known that, true to form and as sure as day follows night, you’d crawl out of the woodwork to critique or put your imprimatur on definitions of white privilege.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What do you think?
Squinch
(59,522 posts)those exercising it.
But I'm guessing that's its appeal to those who like it.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)The privilege does not assure success, but the lack of privilege means that success is much farther away.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)
George II
(67,782 posts)
Afromania
(2,809 posts)I give you the last two presidents as an example,
Obama - scholar, gentleman, success professionally ,law abiding citizen
Trump - idiot, scumbag, low, multiple time failure at everything other than thievery, not even close to law abiding
If Obama had trump's life story his ladder would have immediately caught fire the moment he entered the primaries, if not sooner. Privilege allowed Trump to not only survive but thrive when his ladder should have not only burned to a crisp but dropped him straight into the prison system.
Privilege attached extra rungs to trump's ladder when it should have come up short. Privilege will continue to add rungs to his ladder until enough of those with privilege in this country have decided they have had their fill or trump decides to step off himself.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)George W. Bush was, by all accounts, including his own, a screw-up into his 40s. Mediocre party boy student, heavy drinker and possible alcoholic, failed businesses, DUI, etc. Yet, despite that, he was still able to become president of the U.S. within less than 10/years of cleaning up has act.
Can you imagine what kind of life and career Barack Obama would have had if he had the same track record?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Trump? He never would have made it out of the gate.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Don King
JI7
(93,615 posts)
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)Gothmog
(179,848 posts)Docreed2003
(18,714 posts)The fact that those of us who are melanin deficient that were birthed into privilege are far too ready to use that privilege to our own advancement, rather than using that solid standing on that ladder to help up our brothers and sisters who might not have a chance to reach higher without our help.
I am not saying that a white person should be the saviour, but in a power structure dominated by whiteness only white people can fix this problem. We created this mess and the onus is on us, or at least those of us woke enough to realize it, to fix it.
I'm in the process of developing a mentorship program for teens and, hopefully, a scholarship program for underprivileged kids in our community...I should say my community where I grew up...much of which is made up by minorities, to expose them to the world of medicine and healthcare. I have a sturdy position on the ladder and I want to reach back and help give support to those who may not otherwise have it.
We must recognize our privilege and use it to better others, rather than hoard that to ourselves.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Good on you!
And while everyone can’t do what you’re doing, sometimes just acknowledging the privilege and leveraging the advantages and using your voice to validate others goes a a long way.
That’s one of the reasons I’m so impressed with the Parkland students. They know and acknowledge that their whiteness is giving them more exposure on the issue of gun violence than people of color can ever get. So they talk about it, point it out frequently and go out of their way to share the spotlight that comes to them with others who also need to tell their stories. Just having white people speak up about it can have a huge impact.
Thanks for all you’re doing - that’s awesome!
Docreed2003
(18,714 posts)But small waves become larger ones!
Thank you Effie...love your contributions here
stonecutter357
(13,045 posts)
ck4829
(37,761 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)to define white privilege - and we often work very hard at that - in ways that appear to eliminate us from benefiting from it.
K&R
xor
(1,204 posts)Similar to how I've viewed the idea of it. Obviously there is large segments of folks who typically fall on "the right" who don't understand this at all, but there I've a notice a fair number of people on "the left" have a distorted take on what it means too. Those folks who mean well but cause more problems by using poor arguments and flawed thinking when discussing the topic.
Collimator
(2,118 posts)The other two are stretching to fit into a clever metaphor.
By my reckoning, white privilege is what you can get away with and/or attain based solely on your social standing as a white person.
My family was troubled. Of course my parents tried, but they honestly didn't do a great job in raising us. My brothers got into a lot of trouble, including of the police kind. However, none of them was shot, and none of their lives ended up in the sort of hopeless spiral of poverty/violent behavior/crime/prison/rinse and repeat.
Without going into detail, there is no doubt that if my brothers were black, the sort of "stunts" that they pulled would have directed them towards one of those two outcomes.
No disrespect to my parents, who were flawed human beings struggling with their own problems, but they were sort of half-assed parents. But you know what? So are many, MANY parents in America. But white parents can get away with half-assed efforts, and their kids are less likely to get into serious trouble.
And when you read an inspiring tale about black parents going to heroic lengths to help their child reach some remarkable achievement, ask yourself if there isn't some unspoken criticism in either the writer's narrative or you own mind that asks why more black parents can't be like "so and so's mom or dad?". Do you ever wonder why more white parents (or parents in general) don't produce brilliant students, athletes, entertainers, etc.?
I mention this last point because many folks on the conservative end of the spectrum like to point to certain kinds of black "success stories" as an indictment of black parents whose kids end up in trouble. Look what their kid did. Why can't you push your kid through all those obstacles and accomplish the same?
The fact is, that most people who have kids aren't heroes. They shouldn't have to be. And, frankly, just getting your kid through high school when you live with poverty, prejudice and daily discouragment is sort of heroic. How do you motivate a young person to work hard and play by society's rules when they have so little to gain from adhering to the system?
Heck, white parents are dealing more and more with that conundrum as they realize the economic opportunties for their children are becoming more limited.
Forgive me if some of what I am writing seems only indirectly related to the original point of the post topic.
To sum up, an excellent example of white privilege is our current sham of a president. What he and his family (including his immediate ancestors) have gained would not have been possible if they had to start from the space marked "black" in the game of life. And what they have gotten away with would be unthinkable for any person of any color but white. How many times have they jumped right over the "go to jail " space?
Yes, money helped. But the specific sources of all that money and social connections would have been denied a black family back in the historic period where the Trumps got started.
No one as incompetent, low-skilled, boorish and emotionally maladjusted as Trump would EVER have become President of this country if they weren't white.
(Again, please forgive any non-sequiturs. I am still woozy from some sleep meds.)
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)This should be an OP.
True_Blue
(3,063 posts)Imagine if an African American candidate with zero political experience and a fairly dubious past, ran on a not very subtle platform of Black Nationalism, but made the exact same promises as Trump like build a wall, round up immigrants, bring back jobs, open coal mines, repeal Obama care...etc. Would the WWC still show en masse to vote for him, since all they really care about are jobs?
Yavin4
(37,182 posts)He's a stupid man that still got into an Ivy League school based on his privilege. Was able to default on massive bank loans without going completely broke. Laundered money for dubious people abroad through his real estate deals. Sexually assaulted women.
Yet is still president of the United States.
standingtall
(3,148 posts)Poor white people may have a better ladder than minorities, but they don't have the same ladder as middle class white people and especially not the same ladder as rich white people and middle class white people don't have the same ladder as the rich. Many of them have been brainwashed into believing that minorities are the cause of their misery the true source of many of their problems is actually the wealthy white political and business class largely conservative.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)It's very simple.
We're not talking about inequality between white people in different classes. We're also not talking about demagoguery that makes some white people believe that black people caused their problems.
Neither of those are examples of white privilege. You're talking about economic and class inequality, which is a totally different thing.
White privilege is, among other things, the fact that, in this America, poor white people, regardless how low on the economic spectrum they may be, still enjoy advantages that people of color, regardless how high up they may be on the economic spectrum, do not enjoy.
As I said, it's quite simple.
Collimator
(2,118 posts)And you have it in a nutshell. Whites of all sorts of economic standing have been convinced that the poor (of all sorts of backgrounds) already have or are in the process of "ruining this country".
This is more than bigotry or mean-spiritedness at work. It is a complete abandonment of logic and common sense.
The poor do not have the power to ruin this country. At most, they might ruin some rich person's day (more likely half an hour) by dying in some horrible fashion that gets reported on the news.
It takes POWER to have a major effect on any large social institution, and the poor simply do not have any.
On a positive note, if those of us who have some small slice of power (no matter how ineffectual it may seem at times), join up with the poor and other marginalized folks in this country and VOTE, our collective efforts will make for a shift in the power structure of this country.
Even with the drawbacks of the Electorial College, gerrymandering, and absurd voter restriction laws, there are enough people of goodwill* to restore this country to a functioning democracy-- not a perfect one, mind you, but one worthy of the name.
I don't care how crappy your life is or how disadvantaged you are, if you are legally permitted to vote and you do not do so, your right to complain is undercut. If my statements are coming from a place of white privilege that I can't see any more than a fish can see the water around it, please correct me so I can learn. But if you have a group of friends to stand around and bitch with about "the system" or whatever, then you have the nexus of a support structure to help yourselves and others get out to vote.
Find out where you can vote, offer to babysit someone's kids or drive your friends to the polls. Email the candidate that you support and ask how he/she can legally help you to get your vote out. Maybe your candidate knows of groups or resources to help. If you really don't have the time or energy to become a political "force" then just put in enough effort to make sure that you and four friends vote on the day. That's five fingers closing ranks to become a fist. And therein is your power.
_____________________
* This is what I believe on good days. On bad days, not so much.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But we do need to recognize that for many people, failure to vote isn't based on laziness or lack of will.
Yes, that is certainly the case for some. But for many others, it is more complicated. Among other things, they don't see how voting affects their lives in any real way because from where they are, not only have their lives not improved, regardless who is in power, they can't always see the connection between their vote, the policies that affect them and any actual change in their lives.
And while it may seem pretty simple for people to learn about the issues and then go out to vote, for many people, that is extraordinarily difficult. They are just trying to get through the day and don't have the time or resources to do a lot of research or to coordinate their complicated and difficult lives to get out to the polls. They are still trying to navigate the second level of Maslow's "hierarchy of needs" - basic security and safety.
And even then, in too many instances, people went out to vote and ended up stuck in long lines, told they didn't have the right ID (even when they did) or were in the wrong precinct (even when they weren't) or weren't registered (even when they were).
But I like your suggestion that we do more to help people get to the polls - offer to babysit, drive them, etc. That really makes a difference. And we need to do more than that - start early to help people better understand the issues and how elections and policies directly impact them. Help them navigate the systems that were set up largely to keep them out and/or so confused or frustrated that they don't participate.
Collimator
(2,118 posts)for your response to my post. You looked beyond the facts and/or statements that you disagreed with and touched upon the spirit of my comments. You elaborated on the difficulties many face when it comes to exercising their voting rights, and provided a clearer perspective rather than muddying the issue with knee-jerk bashing of my position.
Please believe me when I say that I don't think that laziness or apathy is the reason why many people don't vote. Your tie-in with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is spot-on. That is one of the reasons why I hope that people can help each other in small, grassroots ways.
I have listened to smart, savvy young people of color discuss the ways that the system is flawed and heard them conclude that there is "nothing that can be done". They have unwittingly used their insightfulness and verbal skills to discourage others from voting.
Remember what I said about how parents--black or white--shouldn't have to be heroes? Well, it would be pretty high-handed for me to insist that these young people be heroes on the order of civil rights activists who marched and sat at whites only lunch counters, etc.
But I hate it when I hear any young person shrug off the importance of voting. Folks from many walks of life help each other out in all kinds of ways. When elections come around, I can only wish that people help each other in any way that is available to them.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts) 
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)And yet....
Amaryllis
(11,292 posts)WHite priviledge is when you are stopped by a traffic cop and you are worried about a fine and your insurance going up, whereas if you're black, you're worried about getting shot.
Collimator
(2,118 posts)and tragically true.
On some other post, I wrote about something that I had read in an article. The writer noted a sign in a women's shelter.
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
Today is not a good day in my brain and the thought that major categories of human beings live in fear of other human beings who hold power without empathy is making me despair for the whole damn human race.
Amaryllis
(11,292 posts)Wyden and MErkley, a great rep in Blumenauer, and a great state rep and state senator. And Obama had both power and empathy. And it looks like HArry and Meghan will be doing good things for people.
I think there are at least as many good ones as the other kind but ...Trump and his ilk get so much press....I find i have to go out of my way to very consciously look for the good
KentuckyWoman
(7,401 posts)I am a gray haired white woman who can wear a hoodie with the hood up into a convenience store and not think twice about reaching into my pocket and taking something out - right in front the police - in the pitch dark. This is NOT privilege. It should be this way for everyone.
The fact non-whites can't do this without thinking at least twice is appalling. It is racism and everyone who can interact with police safely should be screaming bloody hell until the same applies to everyone.
I am from Appalachian Kentucky and the poverty there is beyond what most people realize. Poverty brings the same thing there as it does in inner cities, but with less choices. There's no bus or subway to get to better jobs. Decent food stores might be 50 miles away.
"Homes" without electric or plumbing are not everywhere , but they are not uncommon either. There are plenty of places in America that whites also have to work twice as hard as most to simply move one rung up the economic ladder.
When people tell me that life is privileged simply because of skin color, I have to shake my head. The rich work hard to keep the poor in poverty. They don't much care what the ethnicity is...
All this said, RACISM tilts everything in this country in favor of whites. This I will agree to.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Last edited Mon May 28, 2018, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)
able to do it.
Privilege is the fact that, regardless how hard your life is, you are likely to be in a better position than a person of color in exactly the same economic condition that you are.
The fact that, as you say, "racism tilts everything in this country in favor of whites" is a definition of privilege.
https://theblackwallsttimes.com/2018/01/27/white-privilege-in-the-world-of-feminism/
https://medium.com/nilegirl/lets-talk-about-why-white-women-never-get-brutalized-for-cursing-out-police-officers-8fa50bacef75
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-daniels-starbucks-arrest-manager-white_us_5ade7a89e4b0b2e8113287fb
KentuckyWoman
(7,401 posts)you could be right. They may be one in the same. ..... But in the pit of my heart, I believe even if by some miracle racism is wiped out, the rich will continue to degrade schools and medical care, and jobs and food etc.
I respect your viewpoint, I really do. But over 70+ years on this planet, I see 2 fronts that need fought to make life for non-whites better in this country. And I will continue to do so to the best of my ability.
Full disclosure, I only know one older black woman well. She's got 10 years on me and also feels free to speak her mind to anyone, anywhere, including the police. Our economics, upbringing, education and current life situation are similar. Except she's now a widow and I've got a few months or perhaps a year. This is the only way I have to compare apples to apples in a real sense rather than making assumptions about how other people live.
I can tell you that she has told me she thinks her opportunities and mine, and her treatment by authorities in Kentucky are similar. Not so for her husband and mine. She said she thinks hers had a harder time getting half decent work and got paid a 20 - 25% less for it than mine. In addition, when he was sick, she feels the medical people were less attentive to his pain than mine and perhaps under-medicated him - once they got him a black lady oncologist that changed and his quality of life was better.
At any rate..... I agree with you that there is a disparity and needs to change.