Important Twitter thread: "Please stop sharing that story about 1500 kids missing"

[oberliner]

Now that we’re all on twitter because of this game, I am making a public service announcement: PLEASE STOP SHARING THAT STORY ABOUT 1500 KIDS MISSING. The outrage I’ve seen is a result of a total misinterpretation and could SERIOUSLY threaten the children you want to save.

Before I get into it, I’ll answer the question 99 million ppl will inevitably ask: I know this because I’m a lawyer, i works on criminal justice issues (sometimes incl immigration), and 4 of my closest friends are immigration attorneys dealing with this EXACT THING

There are two things going on. 1) HHS doesn’t know where 1500 unaccompanied minors are. 2) we are separating parents and children at the border.

These are different. The kids in 1) were not separated from their parents at the border. They crossed the border alien or arrived here without a parent.

That’s not really the point I want to make though, though it is important.

These kids were dealt with by ORR, the office of refugee resettlement. They were released into the care of people that almost always fit within one of these three categories:

1) immediate family 2) extended family 3) other people that the child has a pre-existing relationship with. If none of those categories apply, then the kids normally stay in a shelter.

(After a number of children were trafficked in 2014, these restrictions got tighter.)

So those kids are released and then they are no longer ORRs responsibility or problem. THIS IS A GOOD THING.

One analogy I heard from my dear friend who I won’t tag without her permission, is that ORR is basically a jailer. Do you want the jail keeping track of where every former inmate is?

Now I have more to say about that but before we do that, let’s talk about the word missing. Basically by all accounts HHS did a cursory reach out to check on these kids, and couldn’t find out where they were exactly.

When I say cursory I mean cursory. We’re talking about phone calls. Phone calls!! Like, no door knocks. No checking school records. They called. They didn’t find answers.

There are so many reasons people wouldn’t answer. Maybe these kids are living with someone undocumented. Maybe they aren’t but their sponsor is (legitimately) completely scared of immigration authorities in trumps America.

They aren’t missing! They are almost certainly living with family members who almost certainly don’t want to interact with the government and WE SHOULDNT ASK THEM TO

ORR’s job is NOT to track and monitor these kids and it shouldn’t be. As my friend said, if there were an issue - abuse, or other wrongdoing - it should go through the appropriate agency: children’s services or what have you. It SHOULDNT GO THROUGH HHS/ORR OR DHS/ICE

When your school loans provider can’t reach you, are you missing? No. When your boss can’t find you on a Friday night, are you missing? No. They aren’t missing. Some unanswered phone calls does not a missing child make.

Now, I started out identifying two things that were happening. The second - the separation of children and their parents at the border - is goddamn unconscionable and sickening.

But DO NOT confuse the two. The potential for it backfiring is real. What we’re demanding is that ORR, which works hand in hand with ICE, “keep better track” of kids they basically would like to deport if giving the chance. We don’t want that!!!

You’re asking immigration authorities in TRUMPS AMERICA to BETTER MONITOR UNDOCUMENTED CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES. You don’t want this. I promise you don’t.

I get it. It sounds awful. But at WORST it’s benign. At best, it’s a good thing that ORR doesn’t know where these kids are. There’s a reason. We actually now have pretty strict requirements before we release these kids. They aren’t all being trafficked. They aren’t dead.

It doesn’t mean life is easy, but life won’t be easier if ORR starts tracking them. Trust me. And trust my brilliant friends who know about this shit and have warned me and are now warning you. DONT conflate the two things.

AND because some people are obviously taking this as an opportunity to exonerate the president - NO. Trumps immigration policy is disgusting. His separation of kids and parents at the border is SICKENING. He’s a tyrant. Just don’t conflate them.

https://twitter.com/jduffyrice

About the Author:

Josie Duffy Rice is senior strategist at the Fair Punishment Project. She also covers prosecutors, prisons, and other criminal justice issues for In Justice Today. Before coming to the Fair Punishment Project she was a staff writer at Daily Kos, where she focused on prosecutorial accountability and criminal justice. A graduate of Harvard Law School, Josie previously worked as a voting rights and criminal justice attorney. Her particular areas of expertise include prosecutorial and judicial misconduct and elections.

[randr]

1. Until the children are returned to their parents, they are missing!

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

4. In other words . . .

. . . you didn't actually read the original post.

[pnwmom]

17. No, but I read Snopes.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1475-immigrant-children-missing/

[Gothmog]

48. Thank you for posting this

He OP is wrong

Who is surprised By this?

[grantcart]

98. You read it, you just didn't understand it

the 1475 children were UNACCOMPANIED MINORS meaning that they arrived without their relatives,.

They wee UNACCOMPANIED.

The OP is about people conflating that story with the recent development of separating children from their mothers. The two stories have absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Now that we have established the fact that you don't understand the difference between the two stories we can also establish that the real reason that the children are "missing" is because they relatives that they were reunited with (in 90% of the time, according to Brookings Institute) were here on TPS that Trump took away.

These children were to go to court so that they could be incorporated into their relatives TPS. Now that they have NO JUDICIAL solution there is no reason to go to court. When they don't show up for their immigration court date they are classified as "missing" when in fact in most of the cases they have been reunified with their family.

The snopes article has absolutely nothing to do with the current practice of forced separation.

In detail here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852

[malaise]

127. Yep n/t

[heaven05]

14. true

this posting is a legal opinion from this poster, not necessarily the way things are. So my point is, DON'T STOP SHARING THE STORY, till we get the facts of the matter.

[Demsrule86]

31. Funny how Trump is losing with this story and someone post a thread how we should stop pushing it...

Um...NO, NO and NO...no fucking chance. And we should hit the streets if no action is taken by Congress.

[hexola]

35. How is Trump losing if all this outrage leads to increased monitoring powers?

Break out the yellow stars!

[Demsrule86]

54. There is already increased monitoring...they want to rip kids away and not have anyone check into

what happens to them...given the quality of ICE...no doubt kids will be raped by ICE and sold to traffickers...and we play into their hands by not checking up on these kids...not buying it. They can increase monitoring anytime they want. These kids have nothing to do with anything. This is a ploy to give the GOP and Shittler relief from this very effective story. I feel people who buy this are being duped.

[karynnj]

46. Not everything is about Trump

I don't know if the post is accurate, but the author gives her name and the points she raises can be examined as can the advocacy group she is with. It is silly to dismiss it out of hand. It gives a relatively concise explanation of a very detailed issue.

As to your concern about politics, note that a common Trump strategy is to let a related INACCURATE issue get strength, then when it is debunked .. Say the related real problem was a lie and know his base will conflate them.

Here, the author suggests there is even a bonus. A call to investigate and get a fill list of where the kids are. Can you think of what Trump would do with that?

Oberliner is a serious, long term poster who posted what appears to be a very thoughtful, important link.

[Demsrule86]

52. It is a tweet...sorry one person's opinion...you had to look long and hard to find something that

advocates giving the GOP a pass on ripping kids away from their parents. The timing is suspect.

[karynnj]

61. This is NOT my op, although I am grateful that the OP posted it

Read this thread - in addition to the OP:

- The 1500 kids "missing" is from an HHS report that the Senate required. It is based on kids, who came to the US unaccompanied around 2014. (There are many articles from that time period, because very desperate families, whose kids faced such danger in their own countries, sent their kids with traffickers to get them to the US. The US strongly discouraged this because of the dangers to the kids as well as immigration issues.)

Now, consider the gain to the Republicans IF this story is propagated:
1) They will argue that it was OBAMA who lost the kids
2) They will ask the DHS to work with HHS to get a list of where all the kids are - using investigative techniques beyond a phone call or two. What will they then do with that list?
3) It diverts attention from the CURRENT policy separating kids and parents.

The timing is NOT suspect. The story is relatively new. Note that at least one DUer heard from an Arizona person working issues related to this that this seems accurate. You KNOW how fast a story spreads today - especially one this emotionally devastating. The explanation given here is nowhere near as simple, so it will be harder to get out to counter or explain what happened.

[Demsrule86]

63. I disagree...there is widespread criticism of Trump ...and then suddenly some earnestly

opine that we should stop discussing this story based on a twitter post by one person.

[karynnj]

76. No one is saying to stop speaking of the new Sessions order to separate kids and parents

Not to mention - even speaking of the missing kids, what the op is suggesting is that we look more seriously at what happened.

Not to mention, we do not want to be like the RW. We should not jump and run with every story without caring that we could have it wrong.

[kcr]

80. But they are. Where do you think some of these kids are coming from?

This is clearly a case of Don't believe their fake news. Believe OUR fake news instead!

[hexola]

86. Some background for that answer in this post

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10666308

[kcr]

88. Do you think this has stopped?

That we're talking about isolated incidents and everything is okay now? Children are right now being ripped from their parents in a system where they disappear. We can't just sit down and shut up about this. That is madness.

[hexola]

89. No - and I think that has been made perfectly clear.

Separation should not be tolerated...

Do you have any evidence that these statistics aren't reflecting situations going back 4 years? - and all reflect "children ripped from their parents"?

[kcr]

92. No need for quotes. Children actually are being ripped from their parents.

I'm aware that the statistics go back in time, which is why I made the point that they aren't isolated incidents and the problem occurs today. People are outraged because they seem to understand that whereas it seems you don't. Trump has implemented the horrific policy of separating families. Pointing out that children disappear in this system means it's even more urgent we voice our outrage for reasons that should be obvious. Not shutupshutupshutpshup because someone on Twitter said so.

[Demsrule86]

128. By equating previous policies with Trump's new policy, some are in fact offering up the same defense

Trump is. And there are important differences in the Obama's administration policies and those being used now. This is Obama bashing at it's worst and I won't join in defending Trump by blaming a Democratic president.

[hexola]

131. You are so wrong - you fell for the trap

The whole blitz with these non-chronological photos is nothing but an attempt to equate Trumps policies with past administrations...and create the effect "see Trump is not so bad" - and worse, try to get liberals to support increased monitoring (yellow stars or what have you). We are not for those ideas - at least Im not!

We are not equating - we are pointing that that these ARE NOT TRUMP actions...plain and simple.

His administrations actions - DO NOT EQUATE with past administrations - they are way off the rails and far worse.

I can easily accept that bad things happened under Obama - and talk about it like an adult - without calling it "bashing" - can you?

I attribute these things to New Mexico/Arizona/Arapio style politics and policies...I think we all know Obama wasn't racing around the country do all of immigration by himself.

And it's surely no accident that all of these old stories re-emerged on the same weekend.

[karynnj]

134. I am not equating the Obama and Trump policies

However, SOMEONE conflated the situation of kids who entered in 2014 and 2015 with the new Trump policy. I would hope no one here would defend Trump or bash Obama. However, the best way NOT to do that, is to not conflate these two very different problems.

The 2014/2015 situation resulted from UNACCOMPANIED children coming to the border. Various posts explained how the government scrambled to find a way to get the children to relatives or foster parents -- because the alternative was keeping them safe in something that would seem like a detention camp. NOT taking control of the kids when they crossed the border was worse than keeping them as they did. The dilemma they faced was they had to create a system to find the kids relatives if some existed and were willing to take the kids AND to find foster families for the others. In hindsight, some organization should have had a responsibility to monitor the well being of these kids on a regular basis.

As there COULD be abuses (even if the greatest care was taken to vet foster families and relatives), it might be good to further investigate the kids not found by HHS through the phone calls. As others have said, many of the relatives who took the kids might be reluctant to return or take calls. They themselves may be here illegally or they may fear the children could be deported by Trump. (Picture yourself as someone with one of these kids who is Hispanic and here illegally. I don't think I would answer that call in the Trump era. I get that my real life is one of extreme privilege being both legally here and white. )

But, this WAS a different situation than the one now where families are coming to the border and being separated. We need to focus on the inhumane action happening NOW!

[hexola]

2. Thank you for this insightful piece...

I've felt this story was lacking some real specifics - this seems make some really important distinctions.

[oberliner]

7. I found it very informative

Hopefully others will as well - thanks for the comment.

[bornfree17]

3. Thank you

For setting things straight

[Delphinus]

5. Bookmarking

so I can read when on a computer.

[Freethinker65]

6. Thanks once again for a very important clarification.

[Takket]

8. Great post and a sobering reminder

That we are every bit as susceptible to Fake News as the right is when we see something the makes drumpf look bad that we want to jump all over.

[oberliner]

9. Thank you

I think it speaks to the importance of going deeper than just the tweets and one-liners. Obviously there are some truly despicable things going on right now with respect to immigration, so the more informed we can be about all the specifics, the better.

[kcr]

10. Sorry but I can't find anything that backs up what this person says

So I'm going to stay with being outraged over this.



https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/05/heres-how-the-government-managed-to-lose-track-of-1500-migrant-children/

What are the most important takeaways about how ORR is operating today?

"I think the main issues are that we currently have an ORR system that doesn’t follow kids after release, which makes no sense. When they say they disappeared, we don’t know what happened. They could be in danger or they could just have moved. And the fact that nobody knows is ridiculous.

This administration, in policies like trying to prosecute parents for smuggling [and] claiming that parents are endangering their children when they bring them, is discouraging parents from coming forward, which puts the children into even more danger and more risk of being with strangers or non-safe people."

That's Michelle Brane, the Director of the Migrant Rights and Justice program at the Women's Refugee Commission. She's an expert on immigration detention.

[hexola]

16. The OP suggests this is just what Trump wants.

Michelle Brane - despite her liberal sounding title - is pushing for more Trumpy-ness. (based on the OP argument)

[Demsrule86]

32. Trump is being castigated even by the right for this...so I call bullshit.

This is one person's opinion.

[oberliner]

18. That Mother Jones article backs up just about everything this person says

The other follow-up will be that ICE will look for immigration violations for anyone in the household.

Is ICE’s involvement in the placement process a cause for concern?

Absolutely. The result of that memorandum will be that fewer parents will come forward because they will be afraid.

That is the crux of the issue being highlighted in the tweet thread. To wit, that folks do not want to come forward in response to follow up from ORR because they are afraid of what ICE will do.

From the tweet-thread:

"What we’re demanding is that ORR, which works hand in hand with ICE, “keep better track” of kids they basically would like to deport if giving the chance. We don’t want that!!!"

I guess that is an open question - but one worth considering.

[kcr]

66. Nice cherry picking

But note how she still doesn't agree with the opinion presented in the tweet you posted given all the other facts presented.

[oberliner]

75. Well we both selected one quote from that person which supported our argument

Personally, I think the crux of the thread (and something I hadn't considered previously) is that there might be reasons why a sponsor would not respond when the ORR or ICE calls them. The interview you posted also seems to support that argument. They do reach some different conclusions, however, on the scope of the problem and how best to deal with it.

[kcr]

77. I presented the entire article

and my quote from the article was more than that part .

[treestar]

90. Why would ORR want to deport any of them

It is their job to settle them. If they have. Case on court ICE does not need to stop them.

[grantcart]

101. Explained in detail in # 100 below

You are conflating two different stories.

[kcr]

104. I'm doing no such thing

Will you argue that any aspect of the process has been improved by the Trump admin? If not, then how can you argue I'm conflating anything?

I will repeat this relevant part of the MJ article I've already referenced in this thread.

What does it mean when ORR loses track of a child?

The short answer to that is that we don’t know. Once a child is released to a parent or a sponsor—and very often a sponsor is somebody who is not in any way related to the child—ORR does very little to no follow-up. ORR’s position is that they no longer have any responsibility for that child. In most cases, they will do a follow-up phone call to check in. If there is no answer or if there is a problem that is uncovered by that phone call, I think they said [at the hearing] they may call child protective services. But other than that they don’t do anything. As a result, they have numerous cases where they have identified that that child is either no longer in that house or not reachable, but they have done nothing to follow up.

Children may have moved—they may have gone to live with another family member—and things may be OK. Or there have been cases where these children end up in the hands of traffickers. So it is possible that some of those [children] could be in very dangerous and vulnerable situations.

Now that we have this new population of children who have been separated from their parents, it’s even more disturbing. [White House Chief of Staff John] Kelly made a comment that it was no big deal because the kids go to “foster care or whatever.” But the “whatever” is really a problem. If you’re separating a child from their parent and then you’re just losing them, that is extremely problematic. If you’re a parent who has been separated from your child at the border, you may not be able to find them again.

I bolded the last part. Again. How am I conflating? What does it serve to tell people to shut up about this? The proper answer isn't to to tell them to shut up. It's to point out how much things are worse under Trump. No conflating going on here, only denial of how bad Trump is by you and others who claim people should shut up about children disappearing.

[grantcart]

109. You are conflating two different situations, and obviously you didn't read

either # 100 or the link to the longer story

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852#post4

I will try to dumb it down even further

1) between 2012-2017 47,000 UNACCOMPANIED MINORS arrived in the US. The Brookings Institute estimates that 90% of these children were released to their relatives.

The backstory is that there were 320,000 migrants who were here legally who had received Temporary Protective Status (PTS) and could work and live legally here but could not sponsor visas for their brothers, children, nephews and nieces.

You cannot separate UNACCOMPANIED MINORS from their parents because they were in fact UNACCOMPANIED.

Under the Obama administration they were released with a promise to come back to Immigration Court which they did because they would become legal.

Under Trump they had no recourse to legal status so they stopped coming to Immigration Court.

2) Recently the Trump administration started separating ACCOMPANIED MINORS from their parents.


One situation involved UNACCOMPANIED MINORS which the Obama administration reunited with their relatives (good) and another situation with ACCOMPANIED MINORS that are being separated from their relatives (bad).


Two different stories.

What the misinformation about the 1500 children is missing is that 320,000 LEGAL MIGRANTS who were living here with Social Security cards and legal permission to work are now living in fear, not unlike Jews in 1932 in Germany one day and lost it the other day.

In other words once you understand that the 1500 children who are avoiding Immigration Court because of the loss of their Temporary Protection Status you realized that the real number is 320,000, and that extending the current Trump practices if the administration finds those 1500 they are going to separate them from their families and return them, that is why they are hiding.

In fact if the Trump administration is able to find the 46,000 that are not "missing" they would rip them away from their families and send them back too.

The part that you bolded has nothing to do with the unaccompanied minors.

[kcr]

111. Families weren't separated then. They are now. It isn't conflating to recognize that.

The fact you choose to ignore that Trump has now implemented draconian measures that make certain policies much worse than they used to be in the past doesn't mean that those who choose to acknowledge it are conflating. Families weren't separated in the past, but they ARE now. You can choose to stick your head in the sand if you wish, but it doesn't change reality. Pretending that Trump isn't there won't make him go away.

[blue cat]

106. Thank you

I just shared on twitter.

[leftofcool]

11. No, show proof and back up your statements with facts

[Demsrule86]

34. There are no facts. And while the truth is during the previous administration, relatives could come

forward to claim kids without being automatically deported, under Trump this is not the case. I don't care what this person thinks...600 kids have been ripped away from their parents in two weeks...and this is a story that will resonate in rightie America also. This poster always wants to stop things that might just benefit Democrats. And even if it didn't benefit us...saving kids is more important.

[kcr]

97. Thank you. I don't get the denial.

Trump has managed to turn things into an absolute shit show of evil now. It's not like it was ever a paradise, to begin with, but anything resembling a shred of decency before Trump is long gone. It's simply too important to hammer him hard on everything, every time. It's not like those expressing their outrage are advocating for more Trump policies and siccing ICE on everyone. It makes no sense to shut up.

[grantcart]

102. see #100 below. Conflating two different stories

But here is the short answer "How does one separate an UNACCOMPANIED MINOR" from their parents?

[Hortensis]

12. Bottom line: This regurgitates Republican excuses.

Don't bother looking for missing children, they're ALL really just fine.

Missing children!

This is just one of these "important" messages posted on DU in the past couple of days. So we can assume this issue is hurting the Trump administration. As it should!

We're not damned trumpsters, Oberliner, and Fox and other right-wing media have this covered.

[hexola]

20. No - the OP carves that out nicely

They are separating parents and children - and that is truly a call for outrage - but advocating for monitoring should not be our style.

[Hortensis]

27. You forgot the sarcasm emoji for the good sense in

abandoning our responsibility for children lost in our nation thousands of miles from home.

We need one for spitting outrage.

[Demsrule86]

36. One person's opinion and without monitoring kids could end up with sex trafficers...if family or

someone comes forward, it means they can withstand monitoring or they are bad guys out to hurt the kids...either way we need to monitor.

[mr_lebowski]

110. That's the thing, many of them COULD withstand monitoring under OBAMA ... but not anymore ...

In Obama's America, apparently, when these refugee minors were settled by ORR (with careful vetting), the families coming forward (which may or may not contain 'undocumented members') to claim them didn't have to worry about deportation when they came forward.

But now ... i.e. ex-post-facto, under Dump ... they DO.

Which is leading some of them now to not answer ORR's phone calls.

Also, why, exactly, when a minor is given refugee status, made a legal resident, and carefully placed with vetted family members ... does the ORR bear responsibility to essentially function as 'A secondary, federal CPS' for the rest of the kids time as a Minor? The ones in shelters and foster care, okay, CPS should be involved but those claimed by vetted family? WHY 'must' Fed Immigration authorities 'monitor' those minors, exactly?

Ignoring Occams Razor (which I believe suggests 'hiding' rather than 'sold into sex slavery', myself) and turning this situation into a frantic 'ZOMG 1000's of baby children are gone missing and being trafficked by sex perverts! Why aren't the Feds cracking down and finding every single one of these helpless kidnapped babies?!?' is an over-the-top response.

And urging ORR to even more closely monitor the refugee minors may actually do more harm to many of them ... than good. I'm imagining Trump's ICE goons descending on neighborhoods to 'find the kids'.

Ya know, to that, I'm thinking 'no thanks'. Let the Police, FBI, and CPS handle it, just like they do with your Regular, Everyday US Citizen Kids. JMHO.

(BTW for all we know, the 'missing' are now mostly 18-20 year olds since they came in 2014-ish and no ages have been disclosed TTBOMK).

[Demsrule86]

126. That is a very good point.

You have to protect the kids...ICE is one of the most corrupt agencies anywhere.

[oberliner]

23. This piece is by a left-wing activist

Please re-consider what you are saying here.

[Hortensis]

29. Please reconsider vetting your sources and

ignoring labels that don't fit behavior. I question why you feel it's "important" for Democrats to approve depraved-level neglect of children in our care, but I don't believe you're too stupid to know deceit is everywhere these days.

The battle for power between those who, peripherally, believe we have a responsibility for the welfare of uninvited brown-skinned children and those who do not is on and is enormous.

[Demsrule86]

37. +1000

[kcr]

99. I hate to say it, but a tiny number of left wingers have a blind spot when it comes to Trump

She may be one of those. I don't know why but they seem to miss the fact that he's nothing but pure evil. And the tweeter in the OP seems to be missing the Trump factor in her points. She's talking about policies and framing them from a viewpoint before Trump took over. But now that Trump has taken over and taken every shred of humanity away and implemented draconian policies, her views make no sense. It doesn't matter that those kids were from before Trump took over. The fact is he's running the show now. Telling everyone to shut up will only ensure he keeps on running it.

[tammywammy]

107. The tweeter specifically calls out Trump's policy.

AND because some people are obviously taking this as an opportunity to exonerate the president - NO. Trumps immigration policy is disgusting. His separation of kids and parents at the border is SICKENING. He’s a tyrant. Just don’t conflate them.

[kcr]

108. She "calls it out", then hand waves it away by saying people are conflating.

It's weird that a lawyer doesn't know the definition of the word conflate.

[pnwmom]

13. You mean the story that Snopes confirmed?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1475-immigrant-children-missing/


Fact Check Politics

Did the U.S. Government Lose Track of 1,475 Migrant Children?
An official from Health and Human Services reported to a Senate subcommittee that 1,475 unaccompanied migrant children are unaccounted for.


The U.S. government lost track of some 1,475 immigrant children who were placed in sponsor homes.

RATING
TRUE

ORIGIN
On 26 April 2018, the New York Times and the Associated Press both reported that the U.S. government had lost track of nearly 1,500 migrant children it had placed into the homes of caregivers. The alarming nature of the headlines prompted many readers to question the veracity of the reports, but they are apparently true.

The Times and AP reports were based on statements made by Steven Wagner, acting assistant secretary of Administration for Children and Families for the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) on 26 April 2018 at a Senate Homeland Security subcommittee oversight hearing, statements which can be viewed in full here. According to that transcript, Wagner told senators:

SNIP

[Delphinus]

19. OK -

thanks for this too.

[oberliner]

21. Yes

The thread does not dispute any of what is included in that "Snopes" article.

It clarifies some specific details that people might not be aware of.

Most significantly, that there might be a reason why some of those who are hosting the children do not wish to come forward and subject themselves to scrutiny from ICE.

[pangaia]

50. The subtly of the information you posted seems to go right over the heads

of some folks here.
I don; know the perfect correct answer for this situation.

But, from what I can understand, it is a really complex situation. Maybe not easily answered by TRUE or FALSE... RED or GREEN...
especially -- "UP or DOWN."
Just ask Bucky Fuller.

Now I may get wacked for even saying that.. That's ok.

[disillusioned73]

132. Agreed..

but one does not come to DU for nuance.. everything is black or white around here anymore..

[hexola]

24. And another person who didn't read the OP

Thats the whole point - you are being duped into supporting Trump policy

[Demsrule86]

38. It is twitter not an OP...one person's unvetted opinon.

[oberliner]

78. There has been a good deal of vetting

Here's a follow up she posted in response to the questions that were raised by the initial thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210665988

[mr_lebowski]

95. Though we don't always see eye to eye, I suspect your take, and the tweeters ...

IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Let me go on record with that.

WHY the hell do we want ORR (and/or ICE or whoever) ... constantly tracking and monitoring minors that have received legal status through a refugee program, and been sent to live WITH FAMILY, in apparently some cases one or more PARENTS?

There are child protective services in place for handling the welfare of children in our country.

I think once the kids are placed with family and given legal status, they should be left the hell alone by the Feds and Immigration authorities.

Now, when any younger kids are placed in shelter or foster care the Feds should be informing state CPS and they should of course be monitored like any 'minor ward of the state'. But if a minor is given refugee status and CAREFULLY placed with an appropriate vetted family, I don't see any reason for the Federal Immigration Alphabet Soup Agencies ... to know exactly where they are every day and be able to reach them by phone at all times.

There is a big difference between 'missing', and 'not esp. wanting to be found'.

Put it this way, if a Dem was POTUS, 95% of the people here would be defending that POTUS using the same argument that you, me, and the Tweeter ... are making.

Lastly ... do we even KNOW 'average age' here? The outrage brigade seems to love wielding ZOMG TEH CHILDRENZ!!! talisman, but for all we know the average age of those 'missing' ... is 17 ... some people make it sound like it's a bunch of missing 5 year olds, fact is it seems all anyone really knows is 'minors in 2014 when they came here'.

[samnsara]

26. some of the kids have run away thus are unaccounted for but.....

...WHY did they run away?

[grantcart]

103. In this thread I explained how these two stories are getting mixed together

You responded positively to it here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852#post4

You are now mixing 2 different stories together again.

The snopes story is about UNACCOMPANIED MINORS

The current practice of separating mothers from their children cannot be about minors who arrived at the border without any relatives, now can it.

[paleotn]

15. Thanks for the info....

Funny thing is, this administration is so awful that with minimal evidence, we're naturally inclined to attribute not only the usual crappy Rethuglican actions, but absolutely horrific acts to them. They just pass right through the credibility filter unhindered. If the same were rumored about the GHW Bush admin., I would automatically take something this horrendous with a large quantity of salt, like the Clinton / pizzagate insanity. But with Dumpster, such horrible acts are well within the realm of possibilities.

[John Fante]

122. Let's not cut Gump any slack, hundreds of children ARE

being seperated from their parents at the border.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/immigrant-children-separation-ice.amp.html

Officials have repeatedly declined to provide data on how many families have been separated, but suggested that the number was relatively low.

But new data reviewed by The New York Times shows that more than 700 children have been taken from adults claiming to be their parents since October, including more than 100 children under the age of 4.

Whether these kids are accounted for or not is irrelevant: this is a horrible trauma to subject anyone to, nevermind a small child.

[IronLionZion]

22. "They aren't all being trafficked. They aren't dead. "

What I'm hearing is that some of these kids probably are in a bad situation like trafficked or dead.

And it's better if ORR doesn't know where these kids are because they might be deported?

If these kids are safe with family members, then that's great. But if they are in the hands of bad people using them for terrible things then it's not so great. And the truth is you don't know for sure either way.

[Tribalceltic]

25. Sorry... just not buying this

Missing or not, Children are being separated from parents. This needs to be stopped and investigated!

Spinning and twisting the facts does not help our cause.

[hexola]

30. Just don't buy into the idea that "SO FAR, they have separated 1500 children from their parents..."

...at the border...and those are the ones that are missing."

Thats the impression they want - to fuel the outrage for better monitoring - a Trump policy.

[Demsrule86]

39. We need better monitoring for these kids being ripped from their parent's arms...because in

Trump's America...ICE criminals will sell many of them to sex traffickers.

[hexola]

40. Thats just a bogues as saying "we need to arm teachers to protect against school shootings..."

Well fuck ICE then!

Fix ICE...isnt that the issue?

"Sorry illegal immigrant - we need to treat you like a piece of cattle - otherwise our agents will sell you"

[Demsrule86]

55. No that is not the issue. children are being ripped away from their parents and not looked after

properly...by Sessions and Trump. That is the issue...and we need to shout it from the rooftops.

[grantcart]

105. Wrong

Two different stories.

Between 2014-2017 there were 47,000 unaccompanied minors who arrived without their parents but 90% of them were reunited with their parents. They were supposed to come to an Immigration Court hearing but didn't

The other story is about the current practice of separating children from their parents.

The details are in reply # 100

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852#post4

The Brookings Institute estimated that of the 47,000 unaccompanied minors that arrived 90% were reunited with their relatives.

Two stories, one about children who are being reunited with their families (under Obama) and others that are being separated from their families (Trump)

I know that it is confusing because there are many news organizations that are also conflating the two.

Longer explanation with links here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852#post4

[perdita9]

28. Thank you for posting

[zaj]

33. This is true...my ex is a child welfare atty in arizona... she told me the same thing

[karynnj]

51. Thanks

[ananda]

41. Knowing the legal issue is a good thing ...

... but shutting up about missing children and
separating children and parents must not be
silenced!!!

[karynnj]

49. Separating the children should be fought, but it is not clear the kids are 'llost' but just not foun

by HHS. Two different things.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. If they can separate them at the border, what stops them separating anywhere else?

[spicysista]

43. Nah.....

I'm going to continue to ring the alarm until all the facts are out. With Jefferson Sessions making statements like this, I'm not taking any chances with this administration about anything.

I'm not sure that the white house even minds this story all that much. Think about it....if you're trying to stop people from bringing their kids and a story comes out that there are 1500 of them missing, well that may sell your message better than any bumper sticker or wall.

Nope, no pass from me. I'll scream bloody murder all day everyday until every single one of them is accounted for.

"They will be put into foster care or whatever." -Gen. John Kelly

[oberliner]

73. She does point out that the current WH policy is despicable

She just provides some possible explanations for why a sponsor might not respond when called by ORR or ICE.

[spicysista]

81. I respect your appeal....

I respect your calls for reason. I believe that you may believe that some harm may come out of folks panicking without all the facts in hand. However, you must understand that the serious nature of these accusations and the Trump Administration's utter lack of credibility concerning all things, immigration and otherwise, makes it all but impossible to not raise the alarm.

[sarcasmo]

44. Snopes say it's real, no way will I stop sharing this story. Insane what our nation has become.

[oberliner]

72. This does not dispute anything in the "Snopes" article on the same subject

It just suggests that there may be reasons why some of the sponsors of these children are not responding to phone calls from ORR or ICE when they try to check in.

[madville]

45. These are the children that were resettled between 2014 and 2016 right?

Then the Senate report that came out is 2016, authored McCaskill and Portman, demanded that HHS account for these children. So between October 2016 and December 2017 they were able to locate 6100 of the 7600 they had "lost" track of. That's where the 1500 number is coming from.

How many of that 1500 don't want to be found by the federal government?

[treestar]

93. They have to go to a hearing to make the asylum case

If they don’t show, they are ordered deported. If there is an order for that ICE does not go wrong in finding them and deporting them. It’s still the law, though we may sympathize.

[karynnj]

47. Thanks for posting this it is important

The explanation she wrote does make sense.

[oberliner]

71. You're welcome

I found it very informative, even if some of her conclusions may be debatable.

[dreamland]

53. It's 10 p.m., do you know where your children are?

Every parent should know where their kids are even when they are separated and in another's care. How can parents be reunited with their children once tRumpy is out of office and the laws are balanced and fair again? Even for kids with no parents, they got here with the help from someone who cared. Exposure is needed to help remedy the current situation. Bad press for tRUMP is better than having this swept under like all their bad deals.

[hexola]

83. Sure - lets just make monitoring mandatory for all minors in US Borders!

That will help make sure we know who is who...and it will protect all U.S. Minor Youth within our borders from sex trafficking.

After all - we don't want just protect immigrants from sex trafficking - you want to protect all children - don't you?

[jackcrow2001]

56. Not trying to debate but.

Some of the original posters points may be valid, effectively though, even if the majority of these kids are in the custody of relatives, the fact that the government responsible for separating children from parents cannot definitively state the whereabouts and status of these children makes the point about numbers seem like hairsplitting. I just think that the emphasis that Attorney General Sessions and the rest of the Kruel Korrupt Kids this administration seems to attract, the emphasis they placed when Sessions announced the separations, was intended to be punitive, cruel and inhumane warnings to brown people, and some horrific treat to the baying MAGA mob of self-righteous asshats. That said, I agree that if the numbers are being inflated for shock effect, it doesn't help. I honestly don't know anymore...… Every time I think that Republicans can't possibly be as heartless and borderline evil as it seems at times, some new low is reached.

Later Days

[Snackshack]

57. Some good points...

...are raised here in the OP. However the sentence “They are almost certainly living with family members” means the children are almost certainly still not properly accounted for or put another way...missing.

Nice try though.

[oberliner]

70. You raise a good point

I don't think she is disputing that point. Just suggesting that there might be reasons why the sponsors don't want to respond to the phone calls from ORR or ICE.

[ismnotwasm]

59. So you are telling none of them have been trafficked?

Because that’s as “missing” as you can get

[oberliner]

74. I don't think that is what she is saying

I think she is suggesting other reasons why a sponsor might not respond when ICE or the ORR calls them.

[Me.]

91. There is This Line In The Tweet

"They aren’t all being trafficked"

so as I asked on another thread...does not all mean some?

[h2ebits]

60. An attorney? A writer?

I seldom comment on DU but I will for this twitter post. When I read comments, it is an automatic part of my reading skills to see grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. Josie Duffy Rice fails my validity test based on her lack of writing skills. Not only does the twitter post contain several grammatical errors, it doesn't "sound" like the author is actually an attorney. Remember that this is twitter--the place to go for limited concise bits and bytes comments.

Examples:

"Now that we’re all on twitter because of this game" What game is the writer referring to and what attorney would say this?

"Before I get into it, I’ll answer the question 99 million ppl will inevitably ask: I know this because I’m a lawyer, i works on criminal justice issues (sometimes incl immigration), and 4 of my closest friends are immigration attorneys dealing with this EXACT THING."
Huh? Neither a published writer nor an attorney writes in this manner.

"They crossed the border alien or arrived here without a parent." Again, not only does this not make sense but real immigration attorneys do not use the word alien in referring to immigrants--or did the writer mean "alone."

And on it goes. . . .I do not find Josie Duffy Rice credible.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

62. She seems less professional on Twitter, perhaps writing in haste.

I see that in a number of professionals I read on Twitter, whose writings in publications are far more articulate.

Here's her web page with links to her publications ( "Read" tab), should you wish to evaluate further:

Link: http://www.josieduffyrice.com/

I tend to agree her writing skills are unpolished, but she does seem quite the warrior for human rights and fairness in the justice system.

(snip, from "about" tab)

A graduate of Harvard Law School, Josie previously worked as a voting rights and criminal justice attorney. Her particular areas of expertise include prosecutorial and judicial misconduct and elections.
----
In 2014 Josie was named one of City and State’s 40 Under 40 in New York City. She was also Harvard Law School's 2013 Commencement speaker. She has a bachelor's degree in Political Science from Columbia University. Josie lives in Atlanta with her husband and son.

............

[oberliner]

67. Have you ever heard of the Fair Punishment Project?

She is credible.

Also, lots of folks are a lot more casual on twitter than they would be in other settings.

[AndJusticeForSome]

82. Personally, when typing on a phone....

....I find myself making those same grammatical, spelling, typo errors, especially when time is an issue.

Before phones and forced-one-finger-typing, this *might* have been a substantive argument. But today? No way.

I speak from experience.

[wallyworld2]

64. A prison bus for small children with baby seats.

What the kind of monsters have we become?




The Technology of American Ethnic Cleansing

It’s amazing what you can find out on the websites of companies and contractors advertising their goods and innovations. I didn’t find this myself ( https://www.geogroup.com/News-Detail/NewsID/428 ), but it’s telling. What you see above is a prison bus for small children who still need child seats and who were separated from their parents when the fascists at ICE caught them. The website goes into detail about how they provide field trips for the kids (!!), how the seats meet ICE specifications (hmmm), etc. This was from 2016, so who knows how bad it has gotten by now. In any case, this is the technology of American ethnic cleansing.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/05/technological-advancements-american-ethnic-cleansing

[oberliner]

65. That is also an old photo, as you noted

It is encouraging that the outrage is finally kicking in for these long-standing human rights abuses.

[Gothmog]

68. Trump is responsible for the separation of these children from their parents

Link to tweet

[oberliner]

69. No doubt about that

Hence the line: "Trumps immigration policy is disgusting. His separation of kids and parents at the border is SICKENING. He’s a tyrant" which I bolded.

[randr]

79. The following acts are considered as genocide by the UN General Assembly

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Even if where the children are is well documented and they are safe it is a crime of genocide..period

[Gothmog]

84. Trump is blaming Democrats for separating migrant families at the border. Here's why this isn't a su

Here are some facts for the OP to ignore https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-is-blaming-democrats-for-separating-migrant-families-at-the-border-heres-why-this-isnt-a-surprise/2018/05/27/c07810d8-61d3-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html?utm_term=.ebb5c4ef308a

President Trump’s attempt to blame Democrats for separating migrant families at the border is renewing a political uproar over immigration, an issue that has challenged Trump throughout his presidency and threatens to grow more heated as he imposes more restrictions to stem the flow of illegal immigration.

In one of several misleading tweets during the holiday weekend, Trump pushed Democrats to change a “horrible law” that the president said mandated separating children from parents who enter the country illegally. But there is no law specifically requiring the government to take such action, and it’s also the policies of his own administration that have caused the family separation that advocacy groups and Democrats say is a crisis.

In April, more than 50,000 migrants were apprehended or otherwise deemed “inadmissible,” and administration officials have made clear that children will be separated from parents who enter the country illegally and are detained. The surge in illegal border crossings is expected to continue as the economy improves and warmer weather arrives.

“I keep imagining somebody taking my kids from me. My kids are 2 and 4 years old, and that’s the age of some of the children that have been separated from their parents at the border,” said Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Tex.), who is helping to organize a Thursday rally in San Antonio to highlight the issue. “When a lot of people hear the story, they get a similar reaction. They can’t imagine why this would be a standard government practice.”

We need to push trump on the missing 1500 children

[AndJusticeForSome]

85. Thanks for posting.

The Title is probably a bit provocative, but if it gets people to read through, ok. Problem is whether people read through.

OP raises a dilemma for sure, and worth exposure for discussion.

[kcr]

87. Just want to add another thing

Logically thinking this through, the talking point that some of these kids may not want to be found is NOT a reason to sit down and shut up about this. It makes no sense to give in to Trump on this and perpetuate the system that makes people afraid and want to hide. He would absolutely want everyone to be silent about this. It's not as if this is one incident in a vacuum. Children are continuing to be ripped from their parents to never be seen and heard from again. This is an outrage that we can't afford to be silent on. Do not listen to the OP on this one. Do not be silent.

[oberliner]

94. It does seem like you are conflating two different issues though (as the OP warned against)

To quote the OP:

1) HHS doesn’t know where 1500 unaccompanied minors are. 2) we are separating parents and children at the border.

The kids in 1) were not separated from their parents at the border. They crossed the border alone or arrived here without a parent.

So, yes, I agree that we should make noise about children being separated from their parents. In fact, this person tweets about that often and in this tweetstorm notes that Trump is a tyrant and that this policy is disgusting.

That being said, the children in question are ones who arrived at the border alone or without a parent, not children who were separated from their parents.

In fact, the sponsor to whom they are sent is usually a parent or other close relative. It is possible that some of those relatives may not want their profile raised for obvious reasons - and doing so could lead to further hardships for both sponsor and child.

[kcr]

96. Those 1500 kids were from before Trump's policy were in place

But that's not a reason not bring them up because there's no reason to believe that anything has changed. Why would an administration that thinks it's ok to separate families be any better? The Tweeter is wrong and so are you. There is no logical or rational reason to think shutting up and tamping down on outrage is the way to handle this.

[grantcart]

114. I answered in detail in 112

The issue is not the 1500 minors who are not missing but are in hiding.

You do realize that if they were "found" meaning that they came to immigration court they would be forcibly separated from their relatives and forcibly sent back to their home country.

You are advocating that these 1500 unaccompanied minors who are currently with relatives be found and handed to the Trump administration so that they can be forcibly returned to their home country.

The real issue is the 320,000 migrants who had legal status and lost it under Trump will face forcible removal from the US in 2020. In addition to that number are 47,000 unaccompanied minors including 1500 whose parents avoided immigration court once Trump took away their status.

Here is what you are saying, "We need to find those 1500 unaccompanied minors who are currently with their relatives so that the Trump administration can rip them away from those families and send them back".

They are not missing they are hiding.

[kcr]

115. But no one is advocating for ICE to go round them up.

Data isn't real time, like a twitter feed. It's almost always from two to three years ago. So pointing out that those kids were from the Obama years so you're conflating! Wahhhh! Don't sic ICE on them! is stupid. I'm sorry for being so harsh, but it is. People are outraged because of Trump. They're speaking out about Trump and his draconian policies. Not Obama's. Trump's. He's already siccing ICE on everybody. Stop with the right wing gaslighting bullshit and either get on the Trump resistance train or get out of the way. The fact that kids disappear now means that families who are separated will likely never reunite. Others are likely getting trafficked. This isn't the Obama years.

[grantcart]

117. That is exactly what you are advocating, you just don't realize it

When the government states that they are missing it means only one thing

They were paroled to either relatives (90% according to Brookings Institute or 10% to state sponsored foster families) and they were given a date to show up at immigration court.

When they did not show for their immigration court date the government labelled them missing.

Under President Obama 46,000 went through the system and kept their appointment.

When it became clear that Trump would not extend TPS they stopped coming to immigration court.

If they now go to immigration court (and are no longer "missing&quot ICE officers would be present under the new Trump guidelines and they would be separated from their relatives and returned to their home country.

That is precisely why they are not showing up for Immigration Court and why they are classified "missing" when in fact they are with their relatives and hiding.

[kcr]

119. The ones who advocate for quiet are the ones who help Trump. Full stop n/t

[grantcart]

112. You are missing the point, which is understandable because most news organizations are too

1) Conflating the two issues is unhelpful

Please see #100 #109 and

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852

2) One issue is about forcibly separating children from their parents at the border. We should not be silent about that



3) The other issue is about 47,000 UNACCOMPANIED MIGRANTS that arrived at the border and in 90% of the cases were reunited with their relatives under Obama.

Their relatives were holders of Temporary Protection Status and living here legally. Under President Obama these migrants from Haiti, El Salvador and Honduras were given legal status under special Congressional legislation because their home countries were devastated by natural disasters and there was no economy to send them back to. In an act of compassion they were allowed to live here legally and most had been here 15-20 years.

The unaccompanied minors were released to their relatives and given a date to show up at immigration court. Under Obama they all showed up because they would then become legal.

Trump eliminated the legal status of 320,000 people who were here legally. After that it didn't make any sense for the relatives to bring the children to immigration court so they missed the court date and became "missing".



Conclusion: Hysteria about the government "losing" 1500 children does two things; 1) it makes it look like the government bureaucracy is creating the situation rather than Trump's policy 2) it hides the real crime - that 320,000 families who were here legally have now been destroyed and will be forced to return to countries that they haven't been to in decades.

Here is the real irony. If they now find the 1500 children under the new Trump guidelines they will be ripped from their families (who still have legal status until 2020) and forced to return to their home country. Now you can see why they are avoiding the immigration court. They are not missing, they are hiding.

[kcr]

113. Do you honestly think this is about siccing ICE on them? Come on.

You are the one missing the point. If you think focusing on the past while Obama was in power while throwing cold water on the anti-Trump movement so he can keep enacting more and more draconian policies while parents lose their kids and never see them again is the right answer, then there's nothing I can say to change your mind.

[grantcart]

116. So you want these 1500 children that arrived as unaccompanied minors

and who were reunited with their families found and returned to Immigration Court so that the Trump administration can take them from their families and forcibly return them back to El Salvador and Honduras.

You have got this ass backwards.

My son-in-law came to the US as an Unaccompanied Minor and got TPS status.

He has cousins and friends who have TPS status and had their children brought to them. Most of them got temporary status under Obama.

Some of them, including two families I know, came late and when they had the date to show up they already knew that Trump took away their TPS status.

They missed their court date. If they are "found" as you seem to want, the Trump administration will rip them away from the family and return them to El Salvador.

The logical extension of your rant is that we need to find these unaccompanied minors so that we can hand them to ICE so that they are ripped from their family and sent back to El Salvador.

This is what happens when you conflate two completely different stories. The 1500 'missing' unaccompanied minors, and the 46,000 'non-missing' unaccompanied minors, and the 320,000 relatives of both groups should be returned to their TPS status and a path for permanent status approved. Why do you want these 1500 children to be ripped from their families?

[kcr]

118. I think the one who still thinks things are the same as the Obama admin

is the one who has things ass backwards. Time to face reality. There is no humanity in the system left. Zero. Zip. Time to wake up and join those of us who realize it. WE aren't the reasons ICE is going out and rounding anyone up. Thinking there is any hope this country if only we're good and nice and quiet enough is delusional and in fact, helps Trump.

[grantcart]

100. lol, I documented the same thing on Saturday and people refuse to read or understand

1) the 1500 minors were part of 47,000 unaccompanied minors who arrived between 2014 and 2015


2) Current practice of separating minors from their mothers.


People are using SNOPES to confirm that the two stories are interconnected. This is laughably wrong. How do UNACCOMPANIED MINORS get separated from their mothers. The snopes story is about unaccompanied minors not minors that were separated from their mothers.

Quick summary

There are 320,000 migrants from Haiti, Honduras and El Salvador who were granted Temporary Protection Status between 15-20 years ago because of Hurricanes and Earthquakes that devastated their economies making it particularly terrible to round these people up and send them back to countries that had a non functioning economy.

Congress passed and President Obama used the PTS to give these people a limited but legal status in the US. They got Social Security Cards and could work legally. They can't leave the country or commit any crimes.

The largest group of these (200,000) were from El Salvador. Starting in 2012 the relatives of the Honduran and El Salvadorans organized 'caravans' with a few adults and thousands of unaccompanied minors that consisted of 90% children or minors related to PTS legal migrants (per Brookings).

They went through the system and were given to their relatives (90%) or sponsors (10%) and given a court date. Under Obama they all showed up because they were then added to the PTS that their relatives had and became "legal".

Trump removed the TPS status of the 320,000. These people who were legal one minute are now illegal. Starting in 2020 they will be picked up and forced to return to countries they have not lived in for 20 years. Many of them have married American citizens and have children that are American citizens.

Without the TPS there is no longer a reason to go to the Immigration Court. THERE IS NO JUDICIAL REMEDY possible so the families stopped going. If they didn't go to the immigration court they are technically classified as "missing". They aren't missing they are hiding.

Details here https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210658852

That should be enough but since the OP cited the background of the author, here is mine:

From 1978 to 1985 I was an operations officer for International Organization for Migration. I was the first American to go to Vietnam to negotiate migration issues (1979). I worked in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand. While I was Chief of Operations in Thailand I oversaw the movement of 525,000 refugees and migrants from Thailand and Pakistan. They didn't have travel documents but travelled under a "Nominal Roll" that the organization (then ICEM) that I signed. Technically speaking (it sounds more important than it really is) I have signed more travel documents for people entering the US than anyone else. Typically one signature covered 450 people on a 747.

My nuclear family has navigated the US visa system as within my nuclear family we have 4 races and 4 nationalities amongst the 6 of us.

One of my son in laws has lived here 15 years from El Salvador with a TPS.

Through him I have met many El Salvadoran families that had their children, nieces and nephews brought to them as unaccompanied minors.

They used to go to the immigration court so that they could get these unaccompanied minors added to their TPS. Since those TPS will no longer exist there is no reason to go to immigration court (where it is conceivable that the Trump immigration will separate them from their family) so they are not missing they are hiding.

[madville]

120. I've been pointing it out as well

I see the "newest" outrage today is about Border Patrol and ICE taking rosaries away from detained immigrants. Only problem is the story and pictures are from 2015.

[kcr]

121. lolololol!

2015 smh you sure got 'em! conflating lololololololol

[hexola]

123. Conflate this!

Maybe someone on twitter can photoshop Ivanka and child in there for some fun.

[JI7]

124. Ivanka has no problem with sexual asssult, attacking disabled, and other fucked up

Behavior from get fucked up dad for who she works so something like that should not bother her.

[oberliner]

125. Thank you for adding this

And for linking to your OP which is extremely informative.

[LAS14]

129. Thanks! Posts like this keep me involved in DU. nt

[oberliner]

130. You're welcome

I appreciate the comment!

[disillusioned73]

133. K&R..

Thanks for posting..