Wyp***

[ecstatic]

One thing I love about our big tent community is that we at least try to be respectful of how others feel about certain words or phrases being used.

It seems to me that a number of white people on DU have stated they are offended by the term wyp***.

The "on DU" part is important, because I consider members of DU to be my allies. I have no interest in intentionally hurting the feelings of my allies, so I will not and have not used the term. And yes, I know there's a number of white people who are not offended by it. Some members are more sensitive, and that's fine. I don't consider myself to be easily offended--for example, some people get upset when the citizens of their state are painted with a broad brush. Not me, I agree 100% when Georgia is mocked. However, I was born in NY so maybe it's not the same. Anyway, the point is, in general, I try to be respectful of others when they say something is offensive, particularly if it's something I've said that's offensive. I feel like I've received the same respect in return, for the most part. Mutual respect creates a "safe" space for us to vent about the issues that unite us.

Honestly, we have very important issues to discuss--and, yes, that includes race related issues. The rampant racism is out of control! I know we can discuss those issues in a non-divisive, non-alienating way. That's key. Of all the issues that can fracture our alliance, I don't want the debate on wyp*** to be one of them. ESPECIALLY with midterms right around the corner. I think there's a time and a place for everything, and I really don't believe that DU is the right place for that term. Twitter might be, since it's a free for all. It's a lot more impersonal. On Twitter, the "b" word flows freely as do a number of other words that do not fit in with the level of discourse on DU.

Flame away?

[PubliusEnigma]

1. this topic reeks of Russian troll farm

Division for division's sake.

[wellst0nev0ter]

2. Who else has been using that word?

Other than outraged self-appointed tone policers?

[boston bean]

73. LOL. That is an ironic comment.

[Doodley]

89. Absolutely. We know who they are.

[marble falls]

3. I am amused and amazed how many wipipo get so wrapped around the axles over this. Why are people....

so upset over a word that didn't exist here on DU a month ago. The problem isn't the word, the problem is how much power the concept of the word has over wipipo.

[NurseJackie]

45. 👍

[Thekaspervote]

8. Agree! Just think.. we have the ability to seriously tone down the Russian troll affect

By simply ignoring or refusing to make this an issue

[NCTraveler]

109. Please link to Russian trolls exploiting this.

I'm sure it's so prevalent that a majority of posts revolving around it are from Russian trolls.

The things people will do to avoid personal discomfort.

[cwydro]

113. I simply trash every thread about it.

It’s stupid, and yes, meant to divide.

[Doodley]

88. Agreed.

[NCTraveler]

108. Yes, black twitter is owned by Russia.

I wish some people would think before hitting post.

Guess it's easier to write racism off as Russian agitation.

[applegrove]

4. Thank you.

[Sophia4]

5. Thanks, and I agree the term reeks of Russian troll farm.

I strongly support the rights of all Americans, especially those who have for centuries been treated like second-class citizens including African-Americans.

[EffieBlack]

6. Russian troll farms don't play well on black Twitter

We're much more savvy than the folks who fell for that shit elsewhere.

[guillaumeb]

7. Ouch!!!!!

[bettyellen]

80. And that is why people troll black twitter-era.

[BannonsLiver]

121. Tracy Morgan played a huge role in its creation

He should be getting more credit tbh.

[left-of-center2012]

9. It's part of the circular firing squad

Making fun of, and attacking each other.

It only benefits the GOP and Russian trolls.
Some have "bought into" it.

[Bok_Tukalo]

10. No trolls. No Russians.

Someone brought the word out of a safe space for bigots and many are trying to turn DU into a safe space for bigots.

That’s all.

[kwassa]

11. while some people are trying to take offense at something not aimed at them.

I wonder why that is?

[ecstatic]

17. I think if you take a step back

from it, it's kind of clear that it is meant in a dehumanizing way. It's sort of like if I'm hanging with a bunch of guys and they refer to every woman as a "ho" or b**, it would make me feel uncomfortable even if they insist that they're not referring to me personally. It's just a respect thing. I think people are overthinking it. It's very simple. If you switch the situation and it would make you uncomfortable, then it's probably not the right thing to do in this setting.

[kwassa]

22. I think some white people are overthinking it.

this started as a casual joke among black people speaking to other black people about some white people. Not all white people.

You don't understand the context, nor do most of the naysayers here.

I am one of the few people for whom words cannot hurt. I don’t get outraged about much, and definitely not from words written by a person I’ve never met. If I write a “wypipo” article every day, it still won’t match the number of times I’ve been called “nigger” in some form or fashion. I promise you, however, that I am not trying to catch up.

I think the phrase and all the variations of it are sidesplittingly funny (the formal “Y. P. Pull,” the hipster “Why Pee Pole” and the Southern “Wipe E. Puh”). I make an effort to point out that the word doesn’t mean every single person of Caucasian descent. (Although, to be honest, it kinda does. Many of us people assume that all white people are wypipo—just to be safe. In fact, if you are upset by the previous statement because you assumed the phrase wasn’t referring to you—you’re probably wypip0.)

I can understand why some people don’t think it’s funny. Humor is subjective. What is stupid, however, are the people who say it’s racist because if they used a term for black people, they’d be called racist.

As if they don’t understand the power dynamics in America. As if they are willfully ignorant of the 510 years of white supremacy whereby their people got to call black people whatever the hell they wanted. As if black people could give a damn what they are called when they are still treated like niggers. As if they don’t know how racism works. How words work.

https://www.theroot.com/in-defense-of-wypipo-1797033553

[gollygee]

24. I wish I'd seen your answer before writing a reply because I like it better. nt

[ecstatic]

30. I understand the context completely. Key words: "casual joke among black people"

That's why I said in my OP, this is not the right place. I think I saw the first OP where the article you cited was referenced and the term was introduced. It was amusing to me at that point, but I think the thread ended up turning into a flame war. It required a lot of back and forth explanations, etc. So I think at that point, it should have been the end of it. Clearly, it didn't go over well. Most inside jokes don't. Maybe because DU is lily white, last I checked.

But even in another context, it's still silly to me. What's the point, other than to divide?

[kwassa]

37. The point is to communicate, among black people, about some white people.

Those that oppress them. It is moral support between them in the face of oppression.

Not one of them cares about upsetting white people. The thing is, whites keep co-opting black culture, and have picked up on it's use. This is how it always goes.

Another important point: many white people are very hung up on proper racial terminology. Most black people don't care that much, as long as it is not the n-word, and some are not even upset by that. Words are only words, and not the larger racist system itself.

[ecstatic]

52. If I want to vent to other black people, it won't be on DU:GD,

and it won't include silly nicknames or terms. That I promise you. I'm not here for that. I'm still not seeing the point of using that term on DU specifically, especially with all the division it creates.

[Bok_Tukalo]

47. Michael Harriot admits it's a racial epithet

... but chooses to defiantly use it anyway. And he is in a safe space for bigots so he can do so.

I do not want DU to be a safe space for bigots.

[BannonsLiver]

111. Wow, great to see someone finally label Harriot correctly.

Always interesting when people become the things they fight so passionately against.

[mythology]

60. In all seriousness, did you actually bother to read the part you excerpted?

It literally says, "Although, to be honest, it kinda does." Which just proves the point that it is about being bigoted. The author is also one of those idiots who thinks all racism is structural racism. It's pretty clearly not. The definition of racism is being prejudiced, discriminatory or antagonistic to people from a different race. All he's doing is lying to himself to justify his own bigotry.

[kwassa]

75. Yes, I read it and you don't get it.

Structural racism is important. Racism without power is much less important, and this author is not racist because he has no power. He is reflecting observations from his life experience.

[ecstatic]

84. Set the "powerless racism" aspect to the side for a moment--

Even if you've concluded that the racism associated with the term doesn't count, you still can't dismiss the fact that it's also divisive, in addition to being rude and disrespectful. I'm only arguing for civility. That's it.

[Bok_Tukalo]

120. "Predudice plus power" is a textbook Big Lie

<OPE>

[Bok_Tukalo]

119. "[L]ying to himself to justify his own bigotry"

A common practice around here, it seems.

Although, I am open to the possibility that the bigots here who like to use racial epithets are lying to us about their bigotry and not just to themselves.

[Doodley]

91. Jokes that refer to skin color have a name. RACIST!

[gollygee]

23. If a bunch of guys were talking about women like that, it would not be equivalent

Wow people don't get the concept of context.

We have social ladders in this society. We have a system where men are on top of one social ladder, and women are on the bottom of the social ladder. We also have a racial caste system where, generally, the lighter you are the higher on the caste system you are. It is very very different to hit up the ladder than it is to hit down the ladder. This is how comedy works, and "wypipo" is a comedic term. It's hitting up the social ladder, from people at the bottom of the racial caste system poking at people at the top of the racial caste system. Men talking about women like that, especially with the level of violence from men against women in this country, is a completely different thing. There's social power and that history of violence behind those words.

[ecstatic]

33. I don't think it's funny. It doesn't make me feel any better

about all the heartbreaking racist shit that's happening in this country. Not for one second. My biggest hope is that we can stop the more subtle institutional racism going on right now with trump and his judicial appointments. We can only do that if we win the midterms. This ridiculous new "funny" word won't exactly help us to do that.

[gollygee]

35. I'm white so I don't feel like I have a place to police the language of African Americans

and what they find funny or don't as they navigate racism in our society. People who are oppressed often do use humor to deal with their oppression. I'm fine with that.

And this word has nothing to do with any elections. People who wouldn't vote for us due to this word wouldn't vote for us anyway. The Republicans get the votes of people who are that invested in racism.

[Caliman73]

44. The institutional racism is not subtle.

Never has been. That is the problem. People who think it is "subtle" are likely White and have not been affected by it.

[ecstatic]

48. subtle in that there's very little mention of it in the news. nt

[Caliman73]

57. Why would the White news talk about White policies that predominantly benefit White People?

Same reason that any discussion of how people of color view or talk about their oppression or the people that oppress them is seen as divisive and impolite. Discussion of race, racism, privilege is not generally acceptable.

People can call Black people "niggers" for centuries with little consequence or Mexican people "beaners" and "wet backs" for decades, but Black people say Wypipo for a year and it is just as wrong?

Wypipo is not a word that I would ever use, especially directed at people, but I find the comparisons silly.

[ecstatic]

63. I don't tolerate the n word being tossed at me, in any capacity.

I don't care who you are.

And when exactly did I compare the two? I've never done that. Your argument seems to be that two wrongs make a right. Which I find silly.

[Doodley]

92. Should I apologize to you for being a white man?

[Doodley]

90. So, that is an excuse to carry on using it?

[guillaumeb]

29. I disagree. eom

[NurseJackie]

46. And there you have it...

... thank you.

[Renew Deal]

67. Well said

[Sailor65x1]

12. Just a wild guess here...

You worded that so to.slip it past people's trash filters, yeah?

[Scurrilous]

13. Nailed it.

[ecstatic]

16. No. I worded it that way because I said I won't use the term

as people find it offensive.

[marble falls]

18. Only wipipo find it offensive. A word that didn't even show up here till a month or so ago...

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wypipo

wypipo
Twitter slang or dialect that with read aloud sounds like "white people" which is its actual meaning
Girl wypipo are crazy, they let their dogs lick their mouths
by yomamahakim January 29, 2016

This is whats got you upset?

[ecstatic]

19. I'm not white or wipipo. I think it's a divisive term.

So why use it here if it's going to cause division and flame wars? Like what is the point of bringing it to DU, seriously?

[gollygee]

21. What was the point in starting another flame war about it then? nt

[EffieBlack]

25. What's divisive about it?

You don't like the word. I get it. But what/whom does it divide you from? Does the fact that a stranger writes the word on an anonymous discussion board in any way change your behavior or attitude or opinions? If so, how?

[procon]

39. Its aimed at people of a certain race, for a start.

Beyond the age old black and white tribalism, now we have 'good' whites and 'bad' whites. Not once has the primary issue been addressed, not racial equity or justice, just the excuses for repeating racial taunts. That is racism and it foments animosity and division.

[EffieBlack]

40. That's not a definition of divisive.

"It causes division" is not an acceptable definition for "division." What's divisive about it?

Exactly who does it divide YOU from? Does the fact that a stranger writes it on an anonymous discussion board affect you? Does it change the way you think or behave in any way? If so, how?

[procon]

54. Sorry, but you don't get to redefine my point of view or

make up a different interpretation of my words. You seem to be fixated on the rationalization that you're only a stranger on an anonymous discussion board (as are we all) and that entitles you to a free pass to say whatever you want without challenge. Not so. DU is a community for Democrats, and we all gather here because by and large we all share a common solidarity of mind and spirit that opposes things like race baiting and open hostility based on skin color.

Yes, using racial slurs -- pick a flavor -- does have an impact on me, as it should on everyonre because it's wrong and serves no other purpose than to create more discrimination and division rather than deal with the problem.

[EffieBlack]

58. No one is "redefining your point of view."

Just asking you to define a term that you regularly use but refuse to actually define.

[procon]

69. You've been flogging this word for days and vilifying every opposing view.

You don't really want another definition -- you've been offered plenty already -- so pick any subjective narrative that fits your agenda. Since you are determined to keep spreading this made up racist word that was created to sow dissent, maybe you can explain how that will change anything?

[EffieBlack]

71. No one has given an actual definition of it.

But if you have and I missed it, please do tell.

In the meantime, maybe YOU can explain why you think that black folk can only speak in ways that will "change anything?"

[procon]

83. What's the payoff then?

If a positive change isn't goal, then there must be a negative purpose in continuing to use a race based jibe. Does that need any definition?

After days and days of efforts, since no one seems to be able the meet your shifting standards, why don't you just post a numbered list of suitable definitions that match your agenda.

[ecstatic]

42. It's divisive if it causes a disruption or distraction

I'm just really really really really big on respect. We're a shaky alliance, but an alliance nonetheless. When we introduce crazy new nicknames to refer to an entire race of people, that's not respectful, IMO. Make a riff on the word "racist" or teabaggers or trumpites, but when a word that's used to mock people is literally raced based, that's not respectful. And to keep forcing the issue is rude.

Again, this site isn't like a general playground, it's pretty specific in it's mission. We're all supposed to be on similar pages as far as supporting the party platform, rights, etc. We're all supposed to be on the same team.

[EffieBlack]

62. Disruption of what? Distraction from what?

And who decides that those things are sacrosanct they can't be disrupted or distracted from?

[marble falls]

26. Thank you for standing up for wypipo in our struggle to escape the bigotry aimed at wypipo...

the worst of which, of course is being tagged with the epithet, wypipo. Its something we wypipo have had to deal with since around 2016.

I'm tired of having the cops called on wypipo trying to have a bbq in the park. Whoops wait a minute that wasn't us.....

I'm tired of having campus security called when wypipo fall asleep in the common rooms of our dormitory. Wasn't us either...

I'm tired of having managers of coffee shops calling cops when all wypipo want to do is wait more than literally more than two minutes for a business associate. Nope. Wasn't us.....

I'm tired of all the unarmed non violent wipipo who've been killed by cops. Ah ... by and largely not us.....


Whats your first emotion when someone says "Wypipo ......... !"? That's what's important here and not the word. Where's that anger/irritation coming from?

[Caliman73]

50. Awesome!

[gollygee]

14. I don't understand why so many of the posts about it are by people who hate the word

I mean really, just stop bringing it up and you won't see it all the time.

[ecstatic]

43. My first and last time discussing the issue will be in this thread.

Everyone else threw in their 2 cents. Here's mine.

[Kilgore]

15. No flaming here estatic

I find the use of derogatory names FOR ANY RACE offensive. If you have to torture language or logic to make the use ok, then I suggest you check yourself.

I'm sure my comment will offend someone, so flame away, I could care less.

[TCJ70]

20. It won't offend anyone...but according to some...

...it will earn you the label of wypipo. That’s one of the problems with any discussion around it. Disagreeing with its use gets you labeled with it. Making you, in the eyes of the accuser, a racist and bigot and therefore someone they would never agree with. It’s stupid.

[Kilgore]

27. And my response is....

They can stick it in their ear.

I will not use labels, condone the use of lables, or make tortured excuses why they need to be used. My only exception is blood type, now thats a useful label.

[procon]

28. There's no lofty goal when racial slurs are used to create division.

It isn't even like primal therapy where someone might scream out their frustrations or pain, not when a list of defensive excuses invariably accompany the posts of those who continue to use this racial put-down even after it's pointed out as being offensive. This is a deliberately disruptive tactic that insidiously spreads well beyond simple tribalism and DU should not be a part of tolerating racism in any form.

[kwassa]

31. This topic really reeks of white fragility.

We can only talk about race if we only talk about it in terms that no white person however sensitive gets the slightest bit upset.

Which means we can never have a real serious discussion about race.

[TCJ70]

38. Why does a serious conversation about race require using a race as an insult?

Wypipo is just respelled “white people” with only negative connotations. Do that with blapipo, hispipo, asiapipo and you’re looking at a serious backlash...rightfully so. You could try to say that those phrases wouldn’t describe all {insert race here} people but I think we all know that wouldn’t get traction. No defense of those terms would, or should, ever be made.

As a general rule, I’m not a fan of race based insults. Simply for saying that, I’ve been labeled wypipo on this very site. I can link it for you if you want. It’s problematic on many fronts.

[kwassa]

41. We are not having a serious conversation about race.

We are having a conversation about people being upset by a word that doesn't apply to them. This is trivial beyond words.

To me that is white fragility, and also white privilege. We can't have a conversation until those that CHOOSE to be insulted, who are seeking offense, are mollified. Many racial conversations stop here. This one will, too.

[TCJ70]

49. I don't even know what to call this thought process...

1. Use a race as an insult
2. Be exasperated that people of that race are insulted
3. Suggest that those people, who’s race you’re using as an insult, are responsible for prohibiting conversation

Amazing.

[kwassa]

51. It's called white fragility.

You are transparent. You ignore the evidence presented to you.

You choose to be insulted. Good for you.

I can't describe how little I care about it. The world is full of important things.

[TCJ70]

53. I'm actually not insulted. I'm just not a fan of race based insults. N/t

[Doodley]

93. It is not for you to tell a whole race of people whether or not they should be insulted, is it?

[kwassa]

103. I only worry if you're insulted, Doodley.

[treestar]

61. Do you want white people to discuss it at all?

Is there any space for disagreement that is not fragility or whitesplaining? I just get this vibe that they are to nod and agree and that’s it. How is the term essential to a serious discussion? The white people must prove they are not fragile by accepting this term. Say there are white people who accept it but then disagree on another thing. Black people are not all alike either. What of those black people who aren’t interested in the term or this rule about it?

[kwassa]

65. When those that are not the target insist they are being attacked ...

what kind of discussion is possible?

[procon]

86. How does "targeting" people advance racial equality?

No one has suggested that you should try to discuss anything with someone who holds racist views. There a probably few to none racists on DU, so who are your "targets" here?

[nini]

32. What's with the asterisks?

Good Lord.. we need to grow thicker skins and pick our battles.
The continuous outrage over this word on DU is only proving the point of why it was invented in the first place.

[gollygee]

36. Yup nt

[Hoyt]

34. Having seen segregated schools, bathrooms, etc., job adsthat say "No ****** need apply," and worse,

Wypipo is mild. Jeeez, get a grip Wypipo.

[Doodley]

94. So that makes it alright? Mild racism is okay?

[Hoyt]

101. It makes it a non-issue for me. Sorry you are offended. Blacks calling whites Wypipo ain't

racist. Christ.

[fleabiscuit]

55. I think white people want to own "Wypipo" and regulate it, and pet it, and call it George. nt

[Doodley]

95. Who are you to determine what "white people want?"

[quakerboy]

102. Who are you to determine whos allowed to determine what white people want?

[fleabiscuit]

117. Obviously I'm the supreme white people Goa'uld.

[wasupaloopa]

56. The folks who use that term know it is divisive. That's why they use it.

It gives them a sense of superiority which let’s them feel good about attacking folks who don’t like the term.

It isn’t going to change until they change and at this point they gets lto’s of refs.

Yes there is racism but saying wypipo doesn’t make things better. That is because we are talking about a term not racism.

[kwassa]

68. What is wrong with divisive? It is a cardinal sin?

or a more ordinary type?

[Doodley]

96. Well said, and shame on those who use race-based derogatory language.

[fleabiscuit]

59. It doesn't surprise me that there are a LOT of Wypipo's.

[fescuerescue]

64. There are also non-white people offended by that term.

To believe that only white people are offended by a particular term is a form of racism in itself.

[kwassa]

66. Nice assertion. Proof?

[fescuerescue]

70. Well I'm not writing a college essay

Just chatting on an Internet chat about racism.

But if you want, you can mark me down one letter grade for not providing a bibliography.

In any event. I'm not white and I wouldn't use any race based slur. Maybe I'm unique in the sea 7.4 billion people.

But if you want to discount my opinion. That's fine. I'm used to white people discounting how I feel.

[kwassa]

72. I don't know any living human being that cares about the word "wypipo"

outside of DU. White, black, or whatever.

Are you black?

[fescuerescue]

77. So you want to value my opinion

based upon heritage?

There's a word for that.

Anyway, it's not about me, and I don't have the energy to be a torch bearer on this. It's just something that I don't like and I'm puzzled why any progressive would embrace it.

[EffieBlack]

78. You just said that there are lots of non-white people who don't like the term

But then complain when someone asks you if you're black?

You can't have it both ways.

[fescuerescue]

81. I assure you

This silly debate isn't about me.

It's about a racist term about race that some people like to pretend isn't racist because its just about race.

I mean it's not like there isn't 500+ posts of people wringing theirs hands about it, along with pseudo-intellectual posts asking why something that divides actually divides.

But since you are so interested. yes. And now you can proceed to dismiss my opinion.

[kwassa]

104. To continue this circular conversation further ...

"Wypipo" is not about race per se, but how a SUBSET of white people BEHAVE. The word describes behavior, not race because clearly many whites don't behave this way. And those that define the term say so.

Therefore, "wypipo" can't be a racist term because it doesn't denigrate ALL white people based on race.

For "wypipo" to be a racist term, it would have to denigrate all white people.

[fescuerescue]

110. I've heard another word described exactly the same way

for a different group of people.

You know the word and the group.

[kwassa]

112. No, I don't.

Explain.

[fescuerescue]

114. honestly I don't think it would help

Gymnastics are clearly a strength

[kwassa]

115. You are just stuck in your false analogy.

as you have been throughout this thread. As have others.

To put it simply, you lost this argument. "Wypipo" is not a racist term, for that would require the term to apply to all white people, which it never has and clearly does not.

Debate that point. You can't. You lose.

[fescuerescue]

116. not really

And I'm not debating I'm making a statement. I don't debate non-sense.

Go ahead and keep making your assertion. The world is watching.

take care.

[gollygee]

74. There was a poll

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10628290

Most people didn't find it offensive. Some didn't find it offensive but understood how other people could find it so. Two POC found it offensive.

[fescuerescue]

76. I guess I'm not unique then

I'm just not comfortable with race based insults. But if others are, well that's certainly NOT unique.

[ecstatic]

79. Interesting. nt

[Doodley]

97. Well said. You are right in saying it is racist.

[ecstatic]

100. Fair enough.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[X_Digger]

82. As a principle, I think race-based characterizations are bad.

I know, for others, it's more of a preference than a principle.

[LexVegas]

85. The term gives people a sense of superiority. nt

[Tipperary]

99. Spot on.

Some think they are superior to others. Sad to see it here. But it is the same folks again and again.

[Doodley]

98. Don't they know the Queen's English? Of course she is English!

[LanternWaste]

105. It's easier to rationalize to oneself the word rather than the discussion is uncomfortable.

I think it engenders discussion. Discussions that are not otherwise happening. A discussion which is uncomfortable to far too many people. It's easier to rationalize to ourselves that the word, rather than the discussion is uncomfortable.

In justifying it as such, we get to keep wearing our "I'm all for equality" t-shirt, pretend that's all that needs to be done, and conveniently deny ourselves the actual discussions in favor of the trendy pretense of persecution and offense. And that reeks of a necrotic privilege left out in the sun too long to me.

[Orsino]

106. It's an ugly word.

It's often used to describe ugliness rather than to lump all white people under one ugly label. I'll defend that.

I would only ask that anyone using the term do so with care, and if you're so inclined, a nod to #notall can help make the medicine go down.

[NCTraveler]

107. I find the use of asterisks like this to be dangerous. Even offensive.

It promotes a false narrative trying to be pushed by some for less than honest reasons.

Lots of good stuff in your post. Your use of asterisks is not one of them. It actually diminishes concerns of racism in society. Not a flattering look.

[fleabiscuit]

118. Bokononism in our little granfalloon.