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Thu May 31, 2018, 11:22 PM

Michael Steele just said he thinks trump is going to pardon himself.

I agree, in fact I’d put money on it.

18 replies, 2104 views

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:25 PM

1. I wouldn't bet against it. n/t

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:26 PM

2. So while you're wandering around the Rose Garden in your bathrobe and pardoning people on Twitter

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:27 PM

3. Will it come with a resignation?

I’m almost ready to make a deal.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:27 PM

4. Is that even constitutionally valid?

 

Which article in the US Constitution says that?

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #4)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:29 PM

5. Article 2, Section 2, Paragraph 1

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

No constraints on whom he can pardon.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #5)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:32 PM

6. Other than himself.

It clearly says he can't pardon himself in cases of impeachment.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #6)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:46 PM

10. You assume impeachment's in the offing...

If he's criminally indicted, he can pardon himself for the crimes charged.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #10)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:53 PM

12. Just an academic distinction.

If he did that, it would surely lead to impeachment and conviction. I am sure state charges could be filled for which he would be vulnerable. In addition, I don't think he can pardon future crimes. So, some of the financial shenanigans, if they are still occurring could lead to new charges that he would not be able to escape.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #5)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:35 PM

8. Thank you for posting that info!

 

Which then means, only way we can get rid of Trump is by impeachment! Go blue wave!!

If he is convicted of any crime including the crime of obstruction to justice, the blowhard can get away with it.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #5)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:51 PM

11. Laurence Tribe, Richard Painter, and Norm Eisen all agree he can't pardon himself.

So did Nixon's Justice Department.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.9e728350cd26

Laurence H. Tribe is the Carl M. Loeb University Professor and Professor of Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School. Richard Painter, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, was chief White House ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush from 2005 to 2007 and is vice-chair of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW). Norman Eisen, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, was chief White House ethics lawyer for President Barack Obama from 2009 to 2011 and is chair of CREW.

Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.

The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.

The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.

SNIP

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #11)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:58 PM

13. Laurence Tribe, Richard Painter, and Norm Eisen have no authority to impose their opinions

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 12:03 AM

14. No, but the might be better at predicting the reaction of Federal courts to such an attempt. n/t

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 12:36 AM

16. A president can be impeached for abusing the power to pardon.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:33 PM

7. Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt

not in an absolute, legally-binding, court-enforceable fashion by itself, but an admission of sorts. Quite simply, if there was no crime committed, then what is even being pardoned?

Add to that state criminal charges to which double jeopardy does not attach, and an attempt at a self-pardon could be disastrous just considering the state-level charges he would be admitting guilt of.

That it would be a disaster at the criminal charge/conviction level, never mind politically, does not in any way mean Trump won't try it though.

Having said that, he's too ignorant to write a proper pardon himself, and the people he would go to to do such a thing might simply refuse to participate in that action. Then what would he do?

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #7)

Thu May 31, 2018, 11:37 PM

9. No worries, he will then run to Putin nt

 

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 12:05 AM

15. Well, ain't that just dandy?


As much as I want to see him punished for his crimes, I would take just having him leave and head to Mother Russia. There he can be BFF with Vlad and they can ride horses and play dictator all day. What tRump is too dumb to know is the only jackass more nasty than tRump is Vlad. When tRump is no longer useful to him, Vlad has special plans for Donald. If I were Donald I wouldn’t accept any food, beverage or gifts from Vlad. It might be the last thing he remembers.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 01:40 AM

17. Could Trump issue himself a pardon?

I doubt that Trump can legally pardon himself. The fact that we are having to ask the question is so very very sad https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/05/24/could-trump-issue-himself-a-pardon/?utm_term=.5aac3e6356f6

“We can all only speculate what would happen if the president tried to do it,” said Brian Kalt, professor of law at Michigan State University and author of the book “Constitutional Cliffhangers.” “We’re all just predicting what the court would do if it happened, but no one can be sure.”

The constitutional language governing pardons reads, “The President … shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” That vagueness is part of the reason the boundaries of the authority would need to be interpreted by the courts in unusual cases, like the one at hand.

That said, Kalt’s got an opinion about what the Supreme Court would do if Trump (or any president) tried to give himself a pardon: They’d throw it out.

Kalt’s reasons are similarly rooted in interpretations of the language of the Constitution and the intent of its authors.

For example, a pardon is “inherently something that you get from someone else,” he argued. That’s not explicit in the constitutional language, but, then, other boundaries we understand for pardons aren’t either, such as our understanding that there need not be a criminal charge before a pardon. (The most famous example of this kind of pardon was offered by President Gerald Ford to his predecessor, Richard Nixon.)

P.S. Ruckman, professor of political science at Northern Illinois University and author of the blog Pardon Power agreed with this idea in an email. “Supreme Court jurisprudence has always assumed a dichotomy — the granter and the recipient,” he said — the implication being that one person can’t play both roles.

What’s more, “presidents are supposed to be limited,” Kalt said. “The president has all of this power, but he has a limited term. If he was able to pardon himself, that would project his power well past his term.”

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 11:05 AM

18. From my twitter feed

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