Why Pardons Won't Thwart Russia Investigation

[applegrove]

https://politicalwire.com/2018/06/02/why-pardons-wont-thwart-russia-investigation/

"SNIP........

Former Attorney General Eric Holder told an audience in New Hampshire that even if President Trump is using his pardon power to send a signal to potential witnesses in the Mueller probe, people who are pardoned can still go before a grand jury, Axios reports.

Said Holder: “If Bob Mueller, for instance wants to take a pardoned person, put that person before a grand jury, that person no longer has the ability to say, ‘I’m going to invoke my Fifth Amendment right’ and that person then becomes a perfect witness for the special counsel.”

........SNIP"

[jberryhill]

1. And they can perjure themselves

...and be pardoned for that too. (Although we can debate certain Article III inherent powers)

[Honeycombe8]

4. Hmmmm. But at that point, Trump is going to be in deep trouble...

if it's gotten that far. The guy would have to perjure himself, and then the hearings/trial concluded, and then the prosecutor wuld charge the guy with perjury....but by then, Trump may have been found guilty or removed from office.

Perjuring himself at that late stage would be risky, I think.

This is so confusing.

[Frustratedlady]

2. Oh, thanks for posting this. I had heard him say that awhile back and forgot.

That should put the brakes on his little tomfoolery.

He thinks he's so cute.

[Snackshack]

3. Question.

Does a person have to be convicted of a crime before they can be pardoned? My thinking is “No” but I am not sure.

Nixon was pardoned by Ford and he had not been convicted of anything. Is this a special circumstance because Nixon had been president? Could trump issue a blanket pardon for Cohen before he is even indicted. Also can a person get more than one pardon. As a post mentioned above a pardoned person could perjure themselves if called to a grand jury and get pardoned...again?

[aeromanKC]

6. Nixon pardon included any crime he may have committed

"A presidential pardon of Richard Nixon (Proclamation 4311) was issued on September 8, 1974, by President Gerald Ford, which granted his predecessor Richard Nixon a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes he might have committed against the United States while president."

But, did it or would it or could it have included potential future crimes such as perjury? That would be like handing someone a handful of get-out-of-jail-free cards to use when needed. Pretty sure that's not what the Framers had in mind.

[Xipe Totec]

7. crimes he might have committed against the United States while president.

Did not cover any crimes committed after leaving office, like perjury after the fact.

[Augiedog]

5. Sheriff Arpaio, to accept his pardon, had to sign papers admitting guilt to the charges for which

he was being pardoned. There is video of him protesting his having signed these papers, but he did sign them. Correct me if I’m wrong but how can someone who has not plead guilty or been convicted of a crime be pardoned? If tRump pardons someone for crimes not charged or not yet committed or are currently in progress doesn’t that make him an accomplice to those crimes, or a co conspirator?

When Mueller hands down the indictments it’s going to be an interesting time. We will find out if we are a nation of law or a nation of servants to whatever tyrant happens to occupy the Oval Office. And these days it seems checking in with Putin would be the way to find out who Will be that person in the Oval Office.

[Sophia4]

8. Once someone has been pardoned, they can no longer be accused or tried, and therefore

they cannot plead the Fifth since they cannot be required to testify against themselves once they have been pardoned.

If they nevertheless refuse to testify, the judge may be able to sentence them for contempt of court. That is the situation in most such cases. Remember Judith Miller, reporter for the New York Times and the Plame case?