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Sat Aug 4, 2012, 01:27 PM

Government and government regulations kill businesses and create poverty.

That is why Somalia, without a functioning government, is such a rich country




And why Switzerland, that has more regulations per citizen than any country on earth, is so poor;




The country of Switzerland spends over 11 percent of its Gross Domestic Product on universal health coverage for its citizens. This is a very high expenditure per capita, but gives its residents a high healthy life expectancy of age 71 for men and age 75 for women. Switzerland’s physician density is about 3.61 per 1,000 residents. Switzerland also has a high level of air pollution. There are many gardens and parks located in Zurich for citizens to walk and bike in. Most of the people of Zurich enjoy an active lifestyle and sports are an integral part of Swiss culture. The abundance of sporting facilities make Zurich a gathering place for sport lovers in Switzerland. Several international sport federations make their home in Zurich.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNP.PCAP.CD/countries/CH--XS?display=graph

http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/PNBH2.html

24 replies, 7545 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Government and government regulations kill businesses and create poverty. (Original post)
grantcart Aug 2012 OP
SalviaBlue Aug 2012 #1
Bluerthanblue Aug 2012 #2
BlueToTheBone Aug 2012 #3
MNBrewer Aug 2012 #15
shawn703 Aug 2012 #4
Ikonoklast Aug 2012 #5
DrewFlorida Aug 2012 #6
ProSense Aug 2012 #7
Maineman Aug 2012 #8
grantcart Aug 2012 #9
xtraxritical Aug 2012 #10
Curmudgeoness Aug 2012 #11
ErikJ Aug 2012 #14
BOG PERSON Aug 2012 #12
grantcart Aug 2012 #16
BOG PERSON Aug 2012 #17
grantcart Aug 2012 #18
BOG PERSON Aug 2012 #20
grantcart Aug 2012 #23
BOG PERSON Aug 2012 #24
ErikJ Aug 2012 #13
Sirveri Aug 2012 #19
BOG PERSON Aug 2012 #21
BOG PERSON Aug 2012 #22

Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 01:50 PM

1. Your point is well illustrated.

Rec.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 01:51 PM

2. happy to rec-

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 02:13 PM

3. And tourists flock to Somalia

to see how wonderfully well that sort of system works.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 04:16 PM

15. Those aren't tourists... they're hostages

ARrrrrrrgh!

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 02:48 PM

4. Unfortunately, these are facts

And roughly half of this country believes fantasy trumps facts every time.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 02:51 PM

5. The first picture posted is that of Galt's Gulch.


Minus the magical Free Energy machine that made that fantasy work, of course.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 02:56 PM

6. Excellent post, this is the perfect reflection of Capitalism left on it's own!

I have an economics background, and have pointed this out many times to various people. This post will draw in righties for a look and give some a bit of perspective. I will post this to facebook.

Many thanks.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 03:13 PM

7. Is it possible

to add these Romney quotes to the OP:

"This is an extraordinary record of failure," Romney said. "The president's policies are not working because he thinks government makes America work. He is wrong."

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/mitt-romney-unemployment-july-/1


“We celebrate achievement in this country, we do not celebrate government,” Romney said.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/romney-we-celebrate-achievement-not-government


Why the hell is he running for President if he's anti-government?

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 03:20 PM

8. This post is priceless !!!

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Response to Maineman (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 03:34 PM

9. thank you.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 03:48 PM

10. You nailed it! Right on.

 

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 03:52 PM

11. Ah, telling the story in pictures....

even a wingnut could follow this story, if they bothered to look.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 04:11 PM

14. Maybe if Obama and Romney were in the title somehow

 

they would more likely find it by googling.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 04:05 PM

12. counterpoint: india

where you have a big assertive government and a more or less robust regulatory regime (india is a Socialist Republic on paper) coexisting harmoniously w/ semi-feudalism and a kind of lawlessness.

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Response to BOG PERSON (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 05:06 PM

16. and I'll raise you Singapore (also a Socialist Country where the government owns the majority of the

land) that has the highest standard of living in Asia and higher than parts of Europe.

The point isn't that all regulation is good but that no regulation is always bad and some regulation is smart.

Running against regulation is stupid, people should mae a distinction between smart and stupid regulation.

In the US the insurance industry is the most heavily regulated, for good reason, financial industry with each state electing a state commissioner to look after insurance companies examining their marketing, products, long term investments.

During the crash of 2008 banks went bankrupt, lots of other companies went bankrupt, but regular insurance companies were largely untouched, some even growing.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 05:27 PM

17. a city state w/ a population of like 5 million

versus a multinational state w/ a population of 1.2 billion

i hope you're happy w/ that comparison. i hope that satisfies you intellectually.

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Response to BOG PERSON (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 07:43 PM

18. It is a ridiculous comparison


Just like your trying to compare India with either Somalia or Switzerland, but you weren't bright enough to get the point so I have to spell it out to you.

The point of the OP is that simplistic reductions like government = bad, or regulations = hurt capitalism have reduced the political discussion of the opposition to the level of a kindergarten class.

I have been to India and Pakistan and I find the illusion that is a harmonious society a romantic Western image that none of my Indian friends ever promoted as they pointed out that India had a murder rate 10 times that of Japan and where honor killings claim the lives of more than 20,000 a year.

In any case the point of the OP is that intelligent regulations are good, the absence of thoughtful government is bad and how you thought your example of India was a counterpoint to that remains a mystery.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 10:52 AM

20. i am too slow to even see if you have argued circles around me

it all just looks like a blur

i think its the supremely lame to chalk up somalias problems to "small government" instead of , you know, constant political instability. imagine how thoughtful switzerland's government would be w/out its banking sector and after twenty years of civil war.

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Response to BOG PERSON (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:05 PM

23. I am not arguing that Somalias problems are due to "small government"


I am arguing that people who simplistically say that government is the problem are not just simplistic but not based in reality.

Good government will yield good results, bad government will yield bad results.

The size of government that is required to get a good outcome is related to population size, density and sophistication of economic, education and health systems.

You need a lot less government in Wyoming than you do in Manhatten. Generally the people in Manhatten can accept this while generally speaking the people in Wyoming want to inflict their government onto the rest of us.

It is a reoccuring fallacy of the far right that they take arguments that have a relative truth and make it into an absolute truth, which no longer is valid.

For example President Kennedy reduced the maximum variable income tax rate from 80% and this created a rapidly expanding economy which yielded more government revenue, at the lower rates.

They have now concluded that this is absolutely true and that if you reduce taxes you will always cause enough of an economic expansion to increase government revenues at the lower rate.

If that were absolutely true in all situations then you should be able to reduce taxes all the way to 1% and see government revenues increase. Obviously that is not the case, there is an optimum point and from practical experience it seems that the sweet point was reached during the Clinton years.

By using absurd extremes to illustrate the Republican meme that government = bad and regulations = kill jobs I am showing that Republicans suffer an absolute collapse of logical discussion by taking something that might have relative truth and making it absolute, almost in a religious sense, and when you do that absurdity follows.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 02:55 PM

24. yeah but the reason kennedy could lower taxes and still have growth in tax revenue

because the USA, along w/ the rest of the Free World, was in the middle of a capitalist golden age - the likes of which we will (hopefully) never see again - due to the fact the world, minus the USA, lost like 2/3 of its productive capacity in ww2. so i think you are putting the cart before the horse a little. good or bad government, it's all just a function of the metabolism of the economy. whether it is sluggish and glutted (w/ capital) or whether it is more lean and hungry (for capital)

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sat Aug 4, 2012, 04:10 PM

13. Romney kills businesses and creates poverty.

 

How many has he laid off then killed the business?

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:00 AM

19. It's not quite that simplistic, but maybe that's your point.

For most businesses the government they have a problem with is local government, not federal.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 11:14 AM

21. the whole idea of comparing switzerland to somalia just seems crazy to me

i'm still not clear, and maybe this is just another demonstration of my stupidity, i'm still not clear how this illustrates the importance of strong government. as if anarchy in somalia is a natural consequence of a lack of regulations

its like when ppl point to some other fuck up country and they're like "see? thats what happens when you dont have regulations" when in actual fact that's what happens when people won't stop fucking w/ you because they don't respect your sovereignty

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2012, 11:37 AM

22. why dont the gangsters + corrupt bureaucrats of the world

deposit there moneys in somali bank accoutns

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