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ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:03 PM Jun 2018

Mother Teresa was a vile, horrible woman basing her work on white privilege

Mother Teresa: Why the Catholic missionary is still no saint to her critics: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mother-teresa-why-the-catholic-missionary-is-still-no-saint-to-her-critics-a6778906.html

In India, where Mother Teresa carried out the majority of her work, that legacy has already been called into question once this year. In February, the head of the Hindu nationalist group Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) sparked outrage when he criticised her intentions.

“It’s good to work for a cause with selfless intentions. But Mother Teresa’s work had ulterior motive, which was to convert the person who was being served to Christianity,” RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat said at the opening of an orphanage in Rajasthan state, the Times of India reported. “In the name of service, religious conversions were made. This was followed by other institutes, too.”

In 1994, Hitchens and British Pakistani journalist Tariq Ali wrote an extremely critical documentary on Mother Teresa titled “Hell’s Angel.” The documentary, which drew heavily from the account of Aroup Chatterjee, an Indian-born British writer who had worked briefly in one of Mother Teresa’s charitable homes, listed a catalog of criticisms against her. It found fault with the conditions in the facilities of her Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta, which one journalist compared to the photographs she had seen of Nazi Germany’s Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, and Hitchens rallied against what he called the “cult of death and suffering.”


The Complicated Pasts of 6 Trailblazing Women: https://www.history.com/news/mother-teresa-6-trailblazing-women-complicated-pasts

Why She’s Complicated: Even sainthood doesn’t spare one from criticism. The facilities Mother Teresa raised millions to build were rundown and unsanitary, some charged (she advocated reusing hypodermic needles) and she refused an audit that would explain how that could be. Medical treatment was often grossly insufficient, and needed care sometimes proved secondary to the goal of converting souls to Catholicism, critics said. At her Nobel acceptance speech, she condemned abortion as “the greatest destroyer of peace,” and later, she advocated codifying a ban on divorce in the Irish constitution. In both cases, her positions were extreme, even for the Catholic Church—and widely perceived to further disadvantage poor women. Her very presence as a white European Catholic “savior” in India (she was born in Macedonia of Albanian descent), others point out, embodies a long tradition of political and spiritual colonialism.


Mother Teresa Was No Saint: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/krithika-varagur/mother-teresa-was-no-saint_b_9470988.html

To canonize Mother Teresa would be to seal the lid on her problematic legacy, which includes forced conversion, questionable relations with dictators, gross mismanagement, and actually, pretty bad medical care. Worst of all, she was the quintessential white person expending her charity on the third world — the entire reason for her public image, and the source of immeasurable scarring to the postcolonial psyche of India and its diaspora.

A 2013 study from the University of Ottawa dispelled the “myth of altruism and generosity” surrounding Mother Teresa, concluding that her hallowed image did not stand up to the facts, and was basically the result of a forceful media campaign from an ailing Catholic Church.

Although she had 517 missions in 100 countries at the time of her death, the study found that hardly anyone who came seeking medical care found it there. Doctors observed unhygienic, “even unfit,” conditions, inadequate food, and no painkillers — not for lack of funding, in which Mother Theresa’s world-famous order was swimming, but what the study authors call her “particular conception of suffering and death.”


Blech!

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Mother Teresa was a vile, horrible woman basing her work on white privilege (Original Post) ProudLib72 Jun 2018 OP
Agreed! NurseJackie Jun 2018 #1
She believed suffering made people closer to god... cynatnite Jun 2018 #2
Yet she is now canonized! A real saint! ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #3
Sure, as long as it was other people who were doing the suffering. Mariana Jun 2018 #11
No. She made her charges suffer when she had the means to relieve their suffering. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #15
She had no problem going abroad for treatment Jake Stern Jun 2018 #4
Well, of course no one is a saint to their critics. But ffs, to Wwcd Jun 2018 #5
You are referring to the "Complicated Women" article, right? ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #6
I don't criticize her at all considering the way women were viewed back then. Wwcd Jun 2018 #8
there is a direct and blatant connection from the American Eugenics movement directly to Hitler Exotica Jun 2018 #20
This is a very tricky subject ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #23
The American eugenics movement was incredibly damaging to the lives thucythucy Jun 2018 #27
I wasn't commenting on Sanger specifically, moreso the overall American Exotica Jun 2018 #29
Eh Loki Liesmith Jun 2018 #7
When she visited Puerto Rico IluvPitties Jun 2018 #9
I don't doubt it for a second ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #10
She enjoyed watching poor people suffer. Mariana Jun 2018 #12
Until it came time for her to suffer. Then suddenly her opinion changed. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #16
She didn't believe in contraception. Rhythm method or NFP bitterross Jun 2018 #13
She was just a fucking idiot and a cruel person. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #17
She and her fellow nuns were questioned seriously about finances... Archae Jun 2018 #14
No it didn't. The money went to the Holy See. leftyladyfrommo Jun 2018 #26
She's dead. She's been dead twenty years. struggle4progress Jun 2018 #18
And Einstein and Walt Whitman... ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #19
but Einstein and Whitman actually did something positive JI7 Jun 2018 #21
That's somewhat subjective ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #24
What's up with Whitman? thucythucy Jun 2018 #28
Here you go ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #31
Yikes! thucythucy Jun 2018 #32
Hi ProudLib syringis Jun 2018 #22
Hi Syringis! ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #25
I followed Mother Theresa fir years. leftyladyfrommo Jun 2018 #30
I agree with you, she went where no else would go and worked with what she had, and braddy Jun 2018 #33

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
3. Yet she is now canonized! A real saint!
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:09 PM
Jun 2018

Maybe this is something the Rump should be aiming for instead of the Nobel?

Mariana

(14,857 posts)
11. Sure, as long as it was other people who were doing the suffering.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jun 2018

She didn't do much suffering herself, if she could avoid it.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
15. No. She made her charges suffer when she had the means to relieve their suffering.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 11:02 PM
Jun 2018

When it came time for her to suffer, she availed herself of the best medical care money could buy. She was the ultimate hypocrite. She was actually an evil woman.

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
5. Well, of course no one is a saint to their critics. But ffs, to
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:17 PM
Jun 2018

criticize Margaret Sanger who GAVE US PLANNED PARENTHOOD, whatever her personal feelings & traumas were from her upbringing, what she left women of America with is a massive assist.

There's always a critic with a personal agenda in their grating message.

I wouldn't give this author the bandwidth she's thinks she deserves.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
6. You are referring to the "Complicated Women" article, right?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:23 PM
Jun 2018

The whole eugenics thing is silly because it's way too easy to connect to Hitler, but the reality is there is no tenable connection. The one thing I dislike about Sanger is that she ran away when her first clinic got busted. However, I do give her props for taking those two years to learn about hormonal contraception from the more enlightened Europeans and then taking that info back to America.

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
8. I don't criticize her at all considering the way women were viewed back then.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:40 PM
Jun 2018

Bless her for the courage it took however she brought it about.
It moved forward to this very day, a Women's right to choose her reproductive path. And the partriarchy has been pissed ever since.

Good on her & Thank you Margaret Sanger, whatever your personal demons were.

 

Exotica

(1,461 posts)
20. there is a direct and blatant connection from the American Eugenics movement directly to Hitler
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 01:30 AM
Jun 2018
Foundations of Holocaust: American eugenics and the Nazi connection (Jerusalem Post)

https://www.jpost.com/Blogs/The-Jewish-Problem---From-anti-Judaism-to-anti-Semitism/Foundations-of-Holocaust-American-eugenics-and-the-Nazi-connection-364998

“Most of all, American raceologists were proud to have inspired the strictly eugenic state the Nazis were constructing."


Stanford President David Starr Jordan originated the notion of "race and blood" in his 1902 racial epistle "Blood of a Nation," in which the university scholar declared that human qualities and conditions such as talent and poverty were passed through the blood.”


Introduction: If America’s response to the unfolding Holocaust is characterized as passive, its role in promoting the science behind Nazi racism, justification for the Holocaust, was active, even aggressive. American participation in the evolution of Germany’s rassenhygiene took place on many levels from biologists to physicians, from academicians to philanthropists. Two presidents supported the goal of a pure American race, and the US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in a majority decision wrote, “`It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind.''''


Returning to Edwin Black’s observation,


“[T]he concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race didn''t originate with Hitler. The idea was created in the United States.”


As I allowed Black to introduce last weeks discussion so will I do in the present:


Germany’s budding eugenicists became desirable allies for the Americans. A clear partnership emerged in the years before World War I. In this relationship however, America was far away the senior partner. In eugenics, the United States led and Germany followed. “This relationship continued during the Third Reich. During the 1920s, the politically neutral Rockefeller Foundation played a major role in establishing and sponsoring major eugenic institutions in Germany, and during the Hitler years it funded Nazi-controlled institutions both in Germany and Austria until 1939. The Carnegie Foundation continued to fund the [Long Island, New York-based] Eugenic Records Office until 1939, despite the office’s support for the Nazi persecution of the Jews. In 1935, Hitler thanked Leon Whitney of the American Eugenics Society for sending him a copy of “The Case for Sterilization,” a 1934 book that promoted the idea of using sterilization to protect the racial health of Anglo-Saxon America.”

snip



"We do not stand alone": Nazi poster from 1936 introducing compulsory sterilization legislation. First flag on the poster is that of the United States, Germany’s teacher and sponsor, and world leader of Eugenics.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
23. This is a very tricky subject
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:12 PM
Jun 2018

I'll stand by Sanger, though. This came up a few years ago when Ben Carson stated that Sanger wanted to eliminate black people (in an attempt to link Planned Parenthood to Nazism). It just doesn't stand up.

Did Margaret Sanger believe African-Americans "should be eliminated"? http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2015/oct/05/ben-carson/did-margaret-sanger-believe-african-americans-shou/

Sanger was indeed a birth control activist, which means that she wanted women to be able to avoid unwanted pregnancies. She worked for women of all classes and races to have that choice, which she believed to be a right.

Sanger "was far ahead of her times in terms of opposing racial segregation," wrote Baker, a history professor at Goucher College, in an email. She worked closely with black leaders to open birth control clinics in Harlem and elsewhere."

Even authors who treat Sanger critically don’t believe she held negative views about African-Americans. Edwin Black wrote a comprehensive history of the eugenics movement, War Against the Weak, and is no fan of the activist’s beliefs. Ultimately, though, he writes, "Sanger was no racist. Nor was she anti-Semitic."


So, while I do not dispute that there was a huge eugenics movement in the US just prior to Hitler's rise to power, I do dispute the connection between Sanger and Nazi beliefs in purity of race.

thucythucy

(8,066 posts)
27. The American eugenics movement was incredibly damaging to the lives
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:41 PM
Jun 2018

of people with disabilities. The Deaf community in particular came under attack, but also people with epilepsy and a whole host of other disabilities. The low point came with Buck v. Bell, when the US Supreme Court, relying on eugenicists "expert" testimony, that people with disabilities could be sterilized against their will. This resulted in hundreds of thousands of forced sterilizations, almost always of poor people.

In Germany eugenics was taken further in that people with disabilities were slated for outright extermination. This had less to do with "purity of race" than the belief that disability was somehow equated with crime, "moral imbecility," and weakening the nation in general.

Whenever Trump talks about his "good genes" I'm reminded of this whole sordid history, in that some people still adhere to the pseudo science of eugenics, and given his father's racist attitudes in general it wouldn't surprise me if Trump himself isn't steeped in that ablest mind set. Remember how he mocked that disabled reporter? It's all connected.

 

Exotica

(1,461 posts)
29. I wasn't commenting on Sanger specifically, moreso the overall American
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:54 PM
Jun 2018

Eugenics movements nightmarish ties to the NSDAP.

RW pro-lifers can go fuck themselves. They only attack Sanger because of abortion. Many millions of pro life fundies are also rabid racists who would have been in congruence with many of the policies sprung out of horrific racial norms of that period.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
10. I don't doubt it for a second
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:53 PM
Jun 2018

Who controlled the narrative? It wasn't the people she was "helping". So what you have to ask about her is, Why did she do it? Was she super into converting people? Did she have an overpowering desire to be a saint? It sounds like she hated the work.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
16. Until it came time for her to suffer. Then suddenly her opinion changed.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 11:04 PM
Jun 2018

She bought the best medical care that was available and spared herself the suffering that she imposed on her patients.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
13. She didn't believe in contraception. Rhythm method or NFP
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 10:08 PM
Jun 2018

In countries with overpopulation and widespread hunger she still was against contraception. That's just cruel.

Archae

(46,328 posts)
14. She and her fellow nuns were questioned seriously about finances...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 10:55 PM
Jun 2018

Much of the donated money to her convent came from dictatorships, like "Baby Doc" is Haiti.

And they skimped on supplies, like re-using needles.

So the money simply disappeared.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,868 posts)
26. No it didn't. The money went to the Holy See.
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:37 PM
Jun 2018

You really think the Holy See would let a nun control that kind of money?

They parcel it out where they think it should go.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
19. And Einstein and Walt Whitman...
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 12:39 AM
Jun 2018

This has been the week of knocking people off pedestals. We've covered science, art, and now religion.

JI7

(89,250 posts)
21. but Einstein and Whitman actually did something positive
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 01:33 AM
Jun 2018

and they never claimed to be the great godly moral ones.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
24. That's somewhat subjective
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:21 PM
Jun 2018

One could argue that Mother Teresa did good regardless of her moral character. Plus, a nun automatically inherits the attributes of "godliness" and "morality" by association with religion; no claim is required.

thucythucy

(8,066 posts)
28. What's up with Whitman?
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:42 PM
Jun 2018

Has some new information come out about him? I love the original edition of "Leaves of Grass.'

syringis

(5,101 posts)
22. Hi ProudLib
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 05:16 AM
Jun 2018

I never liked her much. I always thought her charity was geometrically variable, and reserved her consideration for the rich and mighty.

The word “charity” I purposely use. I dislike the meaning the word has taken on gradually, as it involves a certain contempt and pity.

“Caritas” in Latin expressed kindness, love for one's fellow human beings, empathy, caring for others.

I don't want to be charitable, but I want to help those who need it, as I would like to be if fortune turns its back on me.

I always preferred Sister Emmanuelle. She did a lot for the poor in Egypt. She had a cheerful personality and was sincerely devoted to the most needy. I don't remember whether she was known in America.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
25. Hi Syringis!
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:30 PM
Jun 2018

Yes, I agree with you about the word "charity". There are charitable works that are performed out of a sense of moral obligation even though the person doing them holds those he/she is serving in contempt. Then there are those charitable works that are performed because a person feels empathy.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,868 posts)
30. I followed Mother Theresa fir years.
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 02:56 PM
Jun 2018

I didn't come away with this kind of 9view at all.

You have to remember that when she went into the slums of Calcutta she was working with untouchables. They were born and died in the streets. There were no doctors or medicine. The best she could do was give them a place to die that wasn't a gutter somewhere. They had no running water. No utilites. I don't know what you think she was supposed to do . She begged for food.

When she first started she was by herself. Later she got help from some priests. And she developed a close friendship with a doctor who worked with her for years.

Later a lot if people sent money but the money went to the Holy See. They distributed it.

Yes, she was tough. She would never have survived if she had been some milquetoasty little nun.

And yes , she was a nun and she believed what nuns believe. She was a child when she entered a convent. You might not agree with it but that us a whole different argument.

 

braddy

(3,585 posts)
33. I agree with you, she went where no else would go and worked with what she had, and
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 03:39 PM
Jun 2018

that includes with what she had within her own self and her abilities. My guess is that those desperate and hopeless and rejected thousands who came to her would berate us for wanting to take even her away from them, because we first world elites find her help inadequate in our first world eyes.

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